I would never trust a Kimber in a gun fight and here is why: [Archive]

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bushmasterguy

11-19-2005, 13:34

I purchased a fullsize Tactical Custom II from Kimber in September. Since that time I have had consist Failure to extract (FTE) and Failure to Feed FTF problems about 15% of the time for the first 300 rounds put through it. Finally I sent it back to Kimber in October and they replaced the external extractor, replaced the barrell and polished the feed ramp. It cost me $63 overnight shipping and they would not pay for my shipping and sent me 2 7 round steel mags as compensation. Wow, really nice of them :( .

To continue the saga I have put 202 rounds through my Kimber since getting it back. 100 rounds in one shooting session last week and 102 rounds today.

On my first shooting session I had a FTF on the last round (100th round) using 230gr American Eagle FMJ rounds.

Today I had 2 Failure to Extract on the 74th and 75th rounds out of 102 rounds fired. I was using 230gr CCI Brass FMJ ammo.

I should also note I used CLP to lubricate/clean my gun and Hoppe #9 bore cleaner on the barrell through the first 400 rounds fired.

However, I switched to Tetra Gun Oil to lubricate the gun and Tetra Gun Grease for the Slide Rails thinking that might solve the problem (still used Hoppes #9 to clean the barrel). That was when I had the 2 FTE's today so I guess my lubricant selection was not the issue. Guess I will switch back to CLP and Hoppes #9.

I calculate I have a 1.5% probability of a malfunction. Too high for me. I will stick with my Glock 23 40SW for dependability. Never had a problem with any malfunctions with my Glock. Of course I guess I should not try to compare the reliability of a Glock with a Kimber. Glock has Kimber beat in that department by a mile.

I am not a Kimber basher and Glock Lover (ok I am very found of Glocks) and I still love the feel and accuracy of the Kimber. Boy is it ever accurate but in the reliability department I am not impressed.

If anyone else has similar problems let me know and what you did to fix it.

strazz

11-19-2005, 14:20

Internal or external extractor?

I had a lot of trouble with my TLE II (internal extractor) when I bought it in early 2004. It took about 500 rounds to get rid of the FTEs. I had to adjust my extractor three or four times to get it right. It was WAY too tight from the factory.

harlenm

11-19-2005, 14:30

When I first bought my Kimber, I too had lots of problems with it. I ended up buying 2 Wilson Combat mags, and that solved the problem. But for the last year or so I had a ton of failures, atleast 1 every mag, no matter if I used the Wilson's or the Kimbers. I spoke to Kimber and they recommended changing the springs. What a difference that made. I've only put about 100 rounds or so through it since, but have no had a single failure.

If it's not ejecting properly, you might need to tune your extractor. My replacement bulletproof extractor that I bought was perfect and didn't need to be adjusted.

You also might want to try a different brand of ammo.

Slater1601

11-19-2005, 15:24

I have the same gun with the internal extractor and never had a problem. Have you tried shooting WWB with it? I have never had a problem with a single round of WWB in either Glock or Kimber. I trust WWB with my life, which is why I use their personal protection ammo in my carry mags. You can ham up expansion, velocity, whatever with all the fancy corbons and federal, etc....I'll take the WWB over any of them. I have tested and proven it over 1,000's of rounds.

Bainx

11-19-2005, 15:42

I was going to PM you on this but can not resist the opportunity to point something out.
You can get a Charles Daly 1911 as I did for $350 and know to polish parts and replace a spring and extractor and have a very good running 1911 [now over 2,000 flawless rounds]. On the other hand, you can throw $1,000 at a Kimber and fight and wrangle with them trying to get it right.
Heck, check out the Rock Island 1911. People are raving about it.

If you want to throw more money at it, do the Springfield milspec trip.
If you want to throw even more money at it, do the Rock River trip, Dear God, I don't even make that kind of money in a year.

nemesis

11-19-2005, 15:54

I had a similar problem with a Series II a long time ago, after my "fix" I remedied the situation by selling it and buying a few other makes. Haven't looked back since.

Berto

11-19-2005, 16:15

That sucks,mine works great.Must be a fluke.;f

bushmasterguy

11-19-2005, 16:18

I have the external exractor model strazz. Bought brandnew in Sept.

stglock

11-19-2005, 19:19

Bought a TLE with internal extractor. I put in around 10k rnds of Winchester Value Pack. Never a hiccup.

js1392

11-19-2005, 19:43

You asked if anyone had had similar problems. Yep, sure did. Too many FTFs and FTEs for a $1k pistol. You also asked what was done to fix it. I gave up. I figured I couldn't trust my life to it, so I went back to carrying my G23 or G27. I sold my Kimber CDP Pro II (External extractor) and bought a plain ol' vanilla Colt. I have no regrets, but I feel your pain.

spober

11-19-2005, 20:31

disreguardnthe kimber bashing.my kimber has been 100 percent reliable.

aglocker1911

11-19-2005, 20:53

Does that include when your magazine catch broke in the woods?;f

DAVE RICHARDS

11-20-2005, 00:43

Yes many of us have had the same kind of problems with Kimbers. First one couldn't be made to work after 4 trips to Kimber. After raising hell got a replacement. 3 trips back and it couldn't be made to work. They sent me a different model with a guaantee it would work. It did for 6 mags then fte started again. I replaced the extractor. No go. Finally replaced the Kimber with an H&K .45 Compact. All problems solved. Funny how when anyone gives a factual report on problems with a Kimber someone immediately accuses them of "Kimber Bashing". They immediately point out their gun works fine. The only problem is that doesn't help those of us that didn't get one that worked right from the box, couldn't be made to work right, and then the guns they replaced them with don't work any better. I suggest you go over to the Kimber forum and do a search in the Kimber section on fte, ftf, broken
MIM parts. customer service, and so on. Then draw your own conclusions. Ignore the Kimber Kool Aid drinkers. If you get one that works they are usually a great gun. But they usually work from day one. Some can be fixed with some tweaking, too many others can't be. This just shouldn't be the case with a gun that costs around a grand. Last I read they are on their 5th redesign of the external extractors. In fact it would seem now that if they can't get an external extractor gun working they are replacing the slides with internal extractor versions. Even they are giving up on their external extractors after so any tries at fixing them. If it's not working save yourself alot of time, money, and frustration. Dump it! If you want a 1911 that works straight from the box get one of the S&W models. Or go to a G21/30, Sig 220, or an H&K USP/USP Compact. All the money you save in shipping you can use to buy ammo to shoot at the range with your gun that works all the time, is not finicky about ammo, and is not picky about mags, limp wristing, and so on. You get the idea. And this idea could save your life. Keeping the Kimber could get you killed. As you alluded to. The one time you might absolutely need it to work can you afford even a small chance it won't? It's shown you over and over again the potential is there.

bushmasterguy

11-20-2005, 07:52

Dave, Well Put, well put. You are right I am not Kimber Bashing. You should not have to work so hard to get a $1,000 pistol to function properly. I am going to contact them again with my issue. I might consider a Sig GSR 1911 since I like the 1911 feel if my Kimber issues persist.

Thanks

NoGo

11-20-2005, 09:22

Having only one Kimber pistol, a pre series II/, Clackamas, early 96' (Or however they're supposed to be described as), I have no experience with the newer pistols.

That being said, the standard "1911 that can't be fixed" concerns come to mind. I'll assume that you've tried various mags, aren't limp wristing it, have put enough rounds through it to break it in, use a decent 16-18lb recoil spring, don't have any add ons that may affect reliability, etc.. So what's causing the problems?

The description of your recent malfunctions sound like they might be mag or extractor related (American Eagle), and recoil spring or extractor related (CCI), but it's impossible to tell from an internet posting. The point is that it sounds like there may be a combination of little things ganging up to cause your pain. To Kimber's credit, they CNC machine all of the slide & frame cuts, which dramatically reduces the chances of getting an out of spec mess that'll never function well.

The different lubes really shouldn't make that much of a difference in functioning of a relatively clean pistol in moderate temperatures.

Either time to tinker with it yourself, maybe try stronger or weaker (Coils cut) extractor springs, put another 500 rds through it or just sell it.

You can occasionally find an older Clackamas Kimber for about $500 or so. Spend the rest on reloading supplies;)

Catbird

11-20-2005, 09:32

I've had this Kimber Ultra Carry (series I) for a few years now and I have NEVER had any sort of failure with it. Moreover, it is just as accurate as most of my high-dollar handguns. I must confess that if I could ever get over my inhibition of carrying *cocked and locked*, this would be the perfect CCW for me.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/Catbird1/Kimber-Pics005.jpg

NoGo

11-20-2005, 11:02

Originally posted by Catbird
I must confess that if I could ever get over my inhibition of carrying *cocked and locked*, this would be the perfect CCW for me.

Not to pick on you personally, but other than the actions that it takes to fire a 1911 (Grip/ depress grip safety, thumbing off the thumb safety then pulling the trigger) vs. Glock or even a DA revolver (Pulling the trigger only). There's no real difference while it's riding on your hip in a holster.

Strap that little thing into a decent CC holster (CTAC, IMO) and carry it unloaded but C&L around the house for a while and see how it works for you.;)

wyliearms

11-20-2005, 11:18

I'm around 8 - 10K competition rounds through mine and have won or placed decently in several sanctioned IDPA matches with it - I hate you are having those types of issues. I have the SSII model with an internal extractor which is slightly modified over stock (the gun that is), but I don't recall having many out of box issues with it. I did see some FTE's and FTF's with it at first, but it was my ammo doing it. I always recommend dropping factory sprig weight on just about every 1911 out there, regardless of manufacturer, this is a 5 dollar fix and well worth the money - factory is arond 20 lbs or so and I like mine for factory ammo between 15 and 17 and comp arond 13 - 15 for weaker loads. I also swapped my factory extractor with a tuned Wilson Match grade - I don't think that made a huge difference, it's just what I like. Overall - I have had an excellent time with mine and I do own others, currently I have a Rock Island, 1 SA Mil-spec, 1 SA modified, the Kimber SSII and a Wilson Combat Classic Supergrade.

I hope you get things working for you, and anybody with true 1911 expierience will tell you - very few come out of the box working 110%, if they did, there wouldn't be such a market for after market products.

Another thing, is the rough surface still present inside the lugs of the lockup area of the bbl? That can cause some issues too during break-in, once it wears off, you should see very few issues out of it.

Lobezno001

11-20-2005, 12:16

I have a Custom TLE/RL II that I've put almost 3K rounds thru without a problem (knocking on wood). I purchased a Pro Raptor II last Saturday at the gunshow and only had the opportunity to get to the range last night. 200 rounds and no problems. On the rest, it was hitting 2" groups at 25 yards. I was really impressed. The only problem I had with it was during my detail stripping last night I noticed that the grips were pretty loose. When I unscrewed them, the bushings came with them. As it looks, the inside of the grip panel holes are just a bit too wide. I put on another pair of grips and they fit snug, so I'll call Kimber to see about sending them back, I think they look very nice and would like to keep them on the pistol.

I've sorry that you've had so many problems with your Kimber. Thankf ully there are others here that can point out some remedies to keep it up and running, and lots of great advice.

Shoot safe,

Lobez

Big B

11-20-2005, 13:06

Originally posted by Catbird
I've had this Kimber Ultra Carry (series I) for a few years now and I have NEVER had any sort of failure with it. Moreover, it is just as accurate as most of my high-dollar handguns. I must confess that if I could ever get over my inhibition of carrying *cocked and locked*, this would be the perfect CCW for me.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/Catbird1/Kimber-Pics005.jpg

Your trigger finger and your brain are your ultimate safety. That being said C&L is "safer" than just about any DAO handgun that only requires you to pull the trigger. C&L requires you take off the thumb saftey and depress the grip safety before you can pull the trigger. Test it out by carrying around the house C&L but unloaded. I'll bet the hammer never falls unless you engage the safties and pull the trigger.

akapennypincher

11-20-2005, 18:40

I have been saying it for years, buy a Kimber is a CRAP Shoot. Some or good, some are CRAP....;f

eljay45

11-20-2005, 20:01

Be sure to pay strict attention to dave and pennypincher. Dave has had guns replaced by 5 or 6 different makers, and pennypincher is a volunteer RO 1 day a week and has never owned a Kimber.

BilltheCat

11-20-2005, 20:32

My Kimber Elite pro was rough for maybe 200 rds with a FTE probably maybe once or twice in one mag. I couldnt keep the mags straight so tossed both of them and bought wilson 47D's.

Probably over 1500 rds now and very smooth with zero FTE/FTF or part failure. Thats no fails at all in 1300rds all ammo types.

I thought about sending it to a pistolsmith with 1911 experience, but other than reliability tunigs, what could he do ?

MIM is the way the world is going I guess. If I knew what parts should be changed maybe I would, but how can you ever know if they will fail or what?

ShootCraps

11-21-2005, 05:08

ack! ;z

G33

11-21-2005, 05:46

Guess I have been lucky.
About a year with a Kimber Eclipse 10mm.
Lot of double Tap ammo.
Full power stuff.
No problems.

Had a Target .45 few years back.
No problems.
But used it to get an HK.
YMMV

gwalchmai

11-21-2005, 06:37

Been real happy with my off-the-rack Custom II. Over 2K of my reloads, mostly LSWC. Feeds fine and shoots where I point it.

10-Hutt

11-21-2005, 11:28

I own a Grand Raptor II (with the External Extractor) absolutely no problems with the extractor. The Kimber Mag was fine but I picked up 4 Wilsons solely on reputation.

I haven't had a lick of trouble with the Kimber. I hear a lot of negatives and I'm thankful I bought BEFORE reading all the negatives. Otherwise I would have been missing out on a great gun.

akapennypincher

11-21-2005, 12:11

Originally posted by eljay45
Be sure to pay strict attention to dave and pennypincher. Dave has had guns replaced by 5 or 6 different makers, and pennypincher is a volunteer RO 1 day a week and has never owned a Kimber.

The reason I have never owned a Kimber is because i have seen too many of them that were Customers JUNK. IMO....

IDtheTarget

11-21-2005, 12:26

This thread is starting to concern me. I was all set to buy a Kimber Pro Carry in 9mm for my wife tonight, now I'm not sure. It's the only 9mm 1911 the gun range has in stock, and this purchase is a significant one for me.

I don't want to have to send it back multiple times to have it work for her. I need something that's rock-solid steady in 9mm 1911.

akapennypincher

11-21-2005, 12:29

Originally posted by IDtheTarget
This thread is starting to concern me. I was all set to buy a Kimber Pro Carry in 9mm for my wife tonight, now I'm not sure. It's the only 9mm 1911 the gun range has in stock, and this purchase is a significant one for me.

I don't want to have to send it back multiple times to have it work for her. I need something that's rock-solid steady in 9mm 1911.

STI Trojan

Do a Search in the GT Archives....on STI Trojan, by Stephen A Camp. A guy who knows 1911's.....

bushmasterguy

11-21-2005, 12:31

Don't do it IDtheTarget. Get her a Glock 26. Goes Bang everytime and easier to carry.

IDtheTarget

11-21-2005, 12:50

Originally posted by bushmasterguy
Don't do it IDtheTarget. Get her a Glock 26. Goes Bang everytime and easier to carry.

I've got a Glock 19. She's a lefty, and even with the extended slide lock she can't lock the slide back. She has a hard time racking the slide at all, and can't drop the magazine with her trigger finger. Believe me, we've tried and had an NRA-certified instructor work with her. It's not gonna happen.

She can work the STI and the Kimber, and they have the Kimber in stock. I'll call and see if they have an STI in stock, or can get one, instead.

nemesis

11-21-2005, 13:17

My G/F has taken over my STI Ranger II. :( I WISH she'd shoot a Glock 19 or something ;Q Anyway, STI is the best deal for under $1K IMHO, however there are a ton of good deals aswell like the S&Ws.

IDtheTarget

11-21-2005, 13:29

I tried the search for STI by Camp, couldn't find the link.

I found him talking about it on other forums through google, though.

The major problem is that the Trojan is a 5" and she wants a 4", for carry purposes. I saw a couple of 4" STI's, but they're over a thousand dollars each. I'll have to crunch some numbers in excel, but I don't think I have that much available, damnit.

IDtheTarget

11-21-2005, 13:44

I just talked to the instructor from whom my wife and I are taking classes. He says that the gun shop where he works is the largest Kimber dealer in the state, and he can only recall two or three times where they've had these kinds of issues. His carry gun is a Kimber, and he's got a bunch of 1911's. I trust him, and his word is good enough for me. Guess I'm buying the Kimber tonight.

Wish me luck! :)

eljay45

11-21-2005, 13:45

Originally posted by IDtheTarget

She can work the STI and the Kimber, and they have the Kimber in stock. I'll call and see if they have an STI in stock, or can get one, instead.

When you call ask if the Kimber has an internal or external extractor? Most people that have FTE problems seem to be shooting Pro and Ultra size gunswith external extractors. Recently Kimber has been producing those guns with internal extractors. They have also repairing problem guns by fitting them with internal extractor slides.

I understand your concern about your upcoming purchase but I'm not sure I would let 1/2 dozen people on the internet scare me off. There are more than twice as many people sticiking up for Kimber.

If you check around the internet you will find someone *****ing about every brand out there.

bushmasterguy

11-21-2005, 16:11

I called Kimber today and talked to Jaime at the Kimber custom shop which does all the repairs for Kimber. Told him my problems and he issued me a UPS call tag so they are going to pay my return shipping this time. Hopefully I will get it fixed this time. Atleast Kimber's customer service is good.

ShootCraps

11-21-2005, 16:50

Originally posted by eljay45
I understand your concern about your upcoming purchase but I'm not sure I would let 1/2 dozen people on the internet scare me off. There are more than twice as many people sticiking up for Kimber.

If you check around the internet you will find someone *****ing about every brand out there.

+5,263. ;f

wyliearms

11-21-2005, 19:01

I just wonder how many people brought their Kimbers back due to "end user error" - the 1911 has been plagued with that since its creation - same as a Glock with a limp wrist - I have had several people approach me with hardship towards Glocks because of poor grip - Don't want to sound like I'm saying any of you do this - but you never know what people are telling you...
If you buy an off the shelf Kimber and shoot factory loads more than likely you are going to be fine - start with handloads and you introduce issues and you will need to make slight adjustments to compensate for - its the same with any gun really, you can't down a whole product line for a few issues, especially when some of which - and I guarantee this - are directly related to the shooter...

IMO

bushmasterguy

11-21-2005, 19:05

wyliearms, I don't limpwrist. Appreciate your opinion but you know, everybody has one. This is a pure mfg flaw that is all that is to it. Kimber without hesitation today told me to send back my Pistol at their overnight shipping expense. Obviously they have a problem and they know it and are dealing with it.

IDtheTarget

11-22-2005, 07:33

Okay, we bought her Kimber Pro Carry 9mm last night. I put some Hogue grips on it, and she does NOT limp rist her pistols! :)

We had two misfeeds on the first two magazines. Seriously, I was getting angry, this shouldn't happen with a $700 gun! We were shooting CCI Blazer 115gr FMJ ammo, the stuff with the aluminum brass. We also shot 147gr Speer Gold Dot. Same issue with both ammo.

Then I realized that it was having the misfeed issues at the next-to-last cartridge, and that the edges of the magazine were kind of sharp. I was scraping my fingers when I loaded, and we both noticed that it was somewhat difficult to get the magazine to seat properly.

Well, I went back into the store and told the gentleman who'd sold us the pistol. He immediately went onto the range to clean the gun, and I got one of the spare magazines that I'd purchased for her. This magazine was of much better quality, smooth edges, better feel.

After the quick cleaning and using the new magazine, the Kimber performed flawlessly. It's now in the gunsmith shop having the lefty conversions added.

What truly amazes me is that a company that charges THAT much for a gun would include a single magazine, and a crappy one at that. Had I not wanted my wife to have 4 magazines (we practice reloading and dealing with jams in the classes we're taking) we would have just written the gun off as crap, instead of the magazine.

The gun shop/range I go to couldn't exchange the mag for me, so I'm going to call Kimber and see what they'll do. The experience I have on the phone today will more than likely determine my loyalty to them as a company from now on. Glock has earned my loyalty through several ways (which would belong in another thread), and it will be interesting to see if Kimber will earn or lose my loyalty at this juncture.

After seeing how they cut corners on the magazine, I'm not sure which way they'll go.

I would like to say that the staff at H&H Gun Range here in OKC is top notch, and Will Andrews, our instructor and the guy who sold me Kim's Kimber, is amazing. They've worked hard to earn my business, and I plan on going there for a long time to come. (No, I'm not an employee or anything. Just a very satisfied customer :) )

Clyde

11-22-2005, 08:35

All my Kimber mags are new in the Box and stay that way. Never really cared for the Kimber mags. in any Caliber. (38Super or 45)

For 9MM 1911 Mags take a look at Metalform or Colt, I use them with my 9mm and have been Happy. (Although my 9mm is not a Kimber)

jem375

11-22-2005, 09:44

Don't listen to these Glockaholics, buy the Kimber, you won't be sorry............

akapennypincher

11-22-2005, 09:46

1911 Magazines, or should I say POOR QUALITY 1911 Magazines can cause much problems.

Too bad ALL MANUFACTURES of 1911 do not put one of the BEST BRAND of Magazine with their Gun, but they do not. Personally I have Found Surplus GI, Metalform, Wilson Combat, McCormick to be the least trouble.

Kimber is capable of Building 1911’s that work 100% of the Time, but that would require Test Firing of Each 1911 more than a Magazine, or Two Magazines to see if the Pistol was Trouble FREE.

Then if it had Problem, it world require Rework, that take away from Profit Margin.

There are many GREAT GUN SMITH who make a living out of doing Reliability Work on 1911’s. Reason is all 1911’s are not Created Equally. Some are Quality, some are not.

Ted Yost, Chuck Rogers, Don Williams, and a few more are just a few of the GREAT SMITH in Arizona that offer Street, or Reliability work on 1911’s.

Sad thing is the consumer goes out and buy a 1911 and expect the 1911 to work for say, 700 BUCKS PLUS they pad for said 1911.

Then if the want that 100% Reliability they have to pay a Smith 200, 300, 700, or More for a reliability package. that is BUNK IMO.

The 1911 has been build by many companies since 1911 under John Browning Design. Think in year 2005 100% of 1911 should work 2005 of the time, as it been built for 95 years....

P.S. Kimber is not the only 1911 manufacturer to have Problems. GT Archives will list 3, or 4 other serious offenders.

IDtheTarget

11-22-2005, 10:10

Now that you mention it, the 4 mags I bought were metalform. I paid about $30 for each one, but they seem to feed reliably and are obviously of higher quality than the Kimber mag.

I guess I got spoiled by Glock. :)

This is the weapon my wife will be using for self defense. Had to go with a 1911 due to operation issues. Hopefully I won't regret the purchase.

DAVE RICHARDS

11-22-2005, 12:26

About your dealer being the largest Kimber dealer in your area and only having sent back a couple of guns. I heard the same thing from a couple of Master Kimber Dealers. Upon being pressed I found out here is what they don't say. Unless the shop specifically warrants the guns themselves the warranty is covered by Kimber. Therefore when a new owner has a problem they deal with Kimber directly, not the gunshop. More often than not after the sale the gunshop has nothing to do with what goes on betwen the customer and Kimber service. When I had all my trouble with Kimber I bought from a Kimber Master dealer and he had to tell Kimber if they didn't do right by me he was going to send every Kimber he had back to them and never sell them again. That got their attention. The gundealer I buy from now does warrant the guns himself. He said he sends roughly three Kimbers back or repair for every one of any other type of 1911 he sells. Some of the gunshop owners on the forums have stopped selling Kimbers because of the problems. Just a couple of weekends ago a friend at the range brought a beautiful new Kimber Raptor to shoot. He has had the same luck with Kimber I have. Why he bought another I don't know. Anyways he told me when he bought it it would not fire three rounds in a row! He sent it back to Kimber. Turns out the barrel and slide were not fit right. After two months he had not gotten his gun back and he called and was told they didn't know when they would get the gun back to him. He told them he was going to contact his attorney. That got their attention. The next day he had the gun back fixed! It shoots beautiful now BTW. But he isn't the first that has had to threaten legal action against them. On the other hand their was another guy at the range with two new different model Tacticals. Both worked 100%. Again that is the problem with Kimber. Some guns work beautifully right out of the box. Others should never of made it out the door. Ernie (the owner of the Raptor) should never of gotten a $1200.00 gun that wasn't even cheked for barrel to slide fit, from the Custom shop no less. Again of course the guy with the two Tacticals that worked beatiful loves his Kimbers. Ernie feels a little different. Again if it works from the box you've got a winner. If it doesn't sometimes their Customer Service is great, Sometimes you get nothing but attitude. Now picture paying $1200.00+ for a gun from the Custom Shop that won't work, not a single round. Then getting the run around from Customer Service. The difference between one gun and another can be outrageous. The difference in how Customer Service treats one person as opposed to another is outrageous.

Teche

11-22-2005, 12:26

I have a Kimber SS II w/ external extractor. I use Chip McCormick 10 round SS Powermags. I shoot 230 gr LRN reloads, WWB, Federal Hydroshock, UMC, etc... I replaced the MSH, slide stop and oversized mag release with Ed Brown products. Not for any particular reason other than I liked the way they looked. I use this pistol for steel matches and the occasional IPSC match. It was purchased new in July and have run approximately 3,500 rounds through it. I have not had a singe FTE. The FTB's that I have had were due to cases that had been reloaded several times. Checking reloads with a case gauge solved that problem. On the whole, the gun works great and I REALLY like the weight, balance and pointability. In my stable it is definitely one of my favorites. A couple of my friends bought older series I Kimber (internal extractors) and they work perfectly as well.

FTB's that I have seen in are due to timing issues with the magazine spring being too weak or too strong. You may consider trying a different mag. I bought the CM's at MidwayUSA on sale for 17.00 each.

What did Kimber say/ due to fix your pistol?

Teche

11-22-2005, 12:39

wyliearms,

I will have to disagree with you regarding the reason for aftermarket parts for the 1911. Much of the aftermarket parts are tailored for different shooting disciplines. I do agree with you regarding the operator error. Most of the problems that I have seen have been directly attributed to "something" the owner has done... for instance the use of a "drop in" part that really should have been fitted by a smith or other such things.

DAVE RICHARDS

11-22-2005, 13:04

BTW, just to be fair and balanced let me say this about Kimber also. After they replaced the first gun thier whole attitude seemed to change. The second gun had to go back three thimes. The last time it came back it had several scratches in it from being worked on at Kimber. I didn't accept the gun. Dennis called and asked me if I would like another model of their gun. Both the other guns were 3" models. Well I asked for a 4" steel model. This eliminated the frame cracking problem. Both of the 3" guns frames cracked between 1000-1200 rounds. Next it had a single recoil spring set-up. The second guns recoil assembly was faulty causing the right side of the frame of the gun to crack. But alas it still had that pain in the rear external extractor. Got the gun. FTE after 6 mags. Was sent another model extractor. Still fte. Gun was then traded. I'd had enough. If they were doing then what they are doing now (replacing guns with external extractors slides that won't work with internal extractor slides) I probably could of got the gun working. Dennis after the first head butting really tried to help. I just got tired of trying to get one of the guns to work. Three times and they were out.

Teche

11-22-2005, 13:23

Dave,

I'm really sorry to hear that you had that much trouble. I do not blame you about dumping the pistol. I had a Glock model 22 that had the odd habit of pushing the factory mag out when it fired. I sent the gun back to Glock and they replaced all the internal parts in the gun with new. I received the gun and went to the range and had the same problem. Off to the gun show and sold it. I bought another 22 but decided that I would rather have a gun made out of steel so I sold that pistol and finally bought a SIG P220. The P220 is a fantastic gun and I would highly recommend one if you do not mind the DA/SA.

Teche

11-22-2005, 13:28

What did you replace your Kimber with?

BilltheCat

11-22-2005, 20:54

wilson 47D mags and mine is great. Eclipse pro 2 sized.

IDtheTarget

11-23-2005, 07:18

Well, I picked up my wife's Kimber Pro Carry 9mm from the gunsmith last night. We had Mepro night sights put on, an ambidextrous saftey, ambidextrous mag release, and Hogue grips. I took it out to the range, just to ensure that everything worked.

Oh, my God.

I've been shooting okay with my G19, though I don't like the factory sights. (I'm waiting for the Mepros I've ordered to come in.) I can usually keep the grouping within 2-3 inches at 7 yards. Okay, but now where I'd like to be.

I put 10 rounds through the Kimber. They all touched. I *like* this gun! Of course, I've never fired a 9mm 1911 before, and only fired a .45 1911 once about 12 years ago.

But I like her Kimber now, maybe better than my Glock.

I'm going to wait until the sights come in for my G19, and see if that makes a big difference. If not, I may just sell the G19 and get a Pro Carry myself. With the Hogues it's more comfortable in my hand, and I have to admit that my ego took a nice boost when I saw the shot pattern.

When I showed my wife the target after getting home, she said "that's nice, dear". Then I told her that that was 10 rounds, not my usual string of 5. That's when her eyes got big, she looked at the target very closely, and said "10? Really?" hehehehehe

I may have to...um....test her Kimber some more, just to be sure that it's working properly....yeah, that's the ticket...

<c>b ;N

MBrooks

11-25-2005, 23:31

SilverState

11-26-2005, 02:29

I have a Kimber Eclipse that has been flawless from day one and it eats anything I feed it.

http://sincitypitbulls.freeservers.com/Eclipse.JPG

PimpStick

12-19-2005, 18:04

I own 4 Kimbers (2 Ultra Carry II Blue, 1 Ultra Carry II Stainless, and 1 Ultra CDP II) and have never had any problems at all, other than that they are a bi**h to strip and clean, as opposed to most polymers.

In fact, the UC II in stainless extracts casings so powerfully, that they hit the roof of my range and ricochet back at me.

Anyway, my next purchase will be a KIMBER 45 Pro TLE/RL 2.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/GLOCK38CCW/XP10100064.jpg

wmcco-5

12-19-2005, 19:42

Bushmasterguy,

Hello. Five Kimbers here and all are 100% with tensioned and polished extractors and Wilson 7 round mags. No break in periods were required. I strongly believe that 95% of all 1911-pattern malfunctions can be traced to the big three issues of: (1)extractor,(both internal & external), (2)mags and (3) ammo. This is applicable to both Series I and II.

If you do not get a satisfactory resolution to your problem(s), I strongly recommend that you source an EXPERIENCED 1911 shooter, (old timer), locally and let him/her shoot your pistol. Most old hands with a 1911 can diagnose a problem and come up with the proper remedy with less than 15 rounds down range. A good source for leads to such an individual might be through one or more of your local Bullseye shooters. It beats shipping your pistol needlessly; or, in the event work is needed, you can better ID the specific issue.

By the way , I have had the privilege of shooting a great number of different 1911's over the past 50+ years and I consider the Kimber to be one of the best, even among the $2000+ custom guns. You selected a fine pistol, give it and yourself a chance... I'm sure that the solution is simple. Good luck!

DAVE RICHARDS

12-19-2005, 22:22

Teche,
sorry to take so long to reply. but I don't check the 1911 forum as often as I used to. I'm not all that excited about the 1911 platform anymore. I have two excellent 1911's. A S&W 1911Sc that is a real gem. Good to go from day one. And a SA Lightweight Compact that after I replaced an out of spec internal extractor has also been perfect. But anyways as to your original question I replaced the Kimber with an H&K .45c. The H&K has also been perfect right from the box. It is totally reliable and has accuracy on par with and better than most anything I own. I like it so much I'm thinking of betting a full sized USP .45. The 1911 is truly a wonderful feeling weapon in the hand. Is extremely pointable, and can be very accurate and reliable. It just seem's to me that for whatever reason the 1911's, rather SA, Kimber, Para, Colt, or whatever seem to have a much greater chance of problems out of the box than other more modern designs. Yes lots work fine right from the box. Lots don't. I have a Sig 220 and also a 245. Never a problem from either. Nor the H&K. My G-30 needed a small spring replaced (the one to release the slide for cleaning) after a couple of months. It has since been perfect. Except for lusting after an Ed Brown Cobra Carry I think my experimentation with the 1911 is about over. A good 1911 is a very fine weapon indeed. But to me no better than some of the more modern designs. As far as the Kimbers go I was at a gun show a couple of weeks back. One of the dealers had 10 Kimbers in his display. 8 of the 10 had internal extractors. Over on the 1911 forum I read lots of folks are getting their fte prone external extractor Kimbers back after a couple of trys at fixing them with internal extractor slides. Just a guess but I'd say after all the problems Kimber is slowly moving back to internal extractors. Someone else mentioned this. I think it a good move on their part. And as far as the comment about getting 5-6 replacement gun from different companies. I recieved the replacement guns because the original guns were flawed. Most were flawed designs(early Taurus PT-145, P-22 Walther, early Beretta Tomacats, and so on). I wanted to the first kid on the block to own one. All these guns had engineering problems in the early guns. They simply replaced them with the re-engineered guns that worked. They couldn't be made to work right. And the companies replaced them as per their warranties. This is a bad thing? Anyways enjoy your 1911's. I still like and carry my two that work. But more often one of my Sigs, my Glock, or my H&K. YMMV

bushmasterguy

02-11-2006, 12:03

I received my Kimber back finally Feb 1st and just got the opportunity to shoot it this morning.

Kimber replaced the entire slide with an brand new internal extractor version as they promised.

Here are the Results:

219 Rounds Fired
1 Failure to Feed on the 196th round.

I was using Wilson Combat 47D Magazine when I had the FTF and shooting CCI Brass 230GR FMJ.

Overall I am happy with the results. Can't complain about one FTF with almost 200 rounds through it before it happened.

Alas I am considering selling the Kimber Custom Tactical II and sticking with my Glock. It should fetch a good price since it is very "unique" being that it is a internal extractor and practically brandnew pistol.

Thanks for all that have posted and your support.

glocker21

02-11-2006, 13:38

RANT MODE ON:

Here we go again ! Bashing a firearm without looking at what we are doing wrong...it is ALWAYS the firearms fault. Frankly, as a smith, I am sick of it.

For once, I would like to have someone go to the range with 1000+ rounds and PRACTICE twice a week. I understand that this would be OPTIMAL but for some, not practical.

In that case buy snap caps and practice in front of the TV ( where the majority of people spend precious time these days ) and practice trigger control, grip control, establishing eye dominance, and front sight awareness while watching your favorite shootemup show. This method is better than nothing.

" I can't go shooting because it is (choose one) too cold, too wet, too hot, too windy, too time consuming, too whatever". This crap really annoys me. If you are not willing to put in the time to know your weapon, your abilities, tactical realities then SELL YOUR WEAPON AND STAY HOME !

Kiddies, carrying a weapon is NOT a penile enhancement , it is in all reality carrying a weapon is a test of your maturity, self control, situational awareness, and most a all, a test of your dedication to self improvement. I was once told that just because you own a strativarious violin that it does not make you Isaac Perlmann (if you do not know who that is ...look it up.). The same
applies to firearms.

I want everyone to understand the following...ALL TOOLS, NOT MATTER WHAT KIND, MAKE, ETC. HAVE PROBLEMS FROM TIME TO TIME. THIS DOES NOT MAKE THEM ALL BAD OR UNRELIABLE. If you want utter reliability, go to a kindergarten class room, find the little wooden blocks with letters and numbers on them...that is as close to utter reliability as you are going to get. Bear in mind there still is the issue of human interaction involved.

Some quick tips.
Lube your firearm properly
http://www.cylinder-slide.com/cleaning.shtml

Clean your firearm properly
http://va.essortment.com/howtocleanas_rgvk.htm
http://www.f-r-i.com/glock/FAQ/FAQ-clean.htm

general tips
http://www.tacticalshooting.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=29

Quit blaming your firearm, get yourself a diagnostic shooting target and get to the range ! When you have a real problem your firearms will not work. FTF/FTE are typically user related.

Glocker21 turns off the rant mode

:soap:

BeeRian

02-11-2006, 14:46

When I purchased my Kimber I kind of figured it as a "project gun" since I had heard all the problems with them. But I still bought it because 1.I got a great deal on it, and 2.I have shot them before and know how great they can be when they work right.

I had some FTF initially (first 100 rounds)with the gun. But I looked at the gun when the round was jammed to see HOW it jammed. After some polishing with 400 and 600 grit sandpaper on the barrel throat, breech face, chamber hood and feed ramp...no more FTF (next 850 rounds)! It feed HP's great. I just decided to take the time to try to figure it out myself and spent a lot of time looking at the different 1911 forums for advice.

Since the "feed job" I have also learned to detail strip the pistol and have even performed a "poor man's trigger job" (save for polishing the sear/hammer hooks) and the gun runs GREAT! Very crisp trigger and reliable feeding and extraction.

Having gone through some growing pains with the Kimber it forced me to LEARN the gun, now I have a very reliable 1911.

bushmasterguy

02-11-2006, 14:49

Glocker21, obviously you did not spend anytime reading this thread and I totally disagree with you it is user error with FTE/FTF's

Kimber admitted it was an issue and they fixed it. Oh and btw last weekend I put 850 rounds through my G23 with 0 FTE/FTF's in a 2 day Tactical Shooting Class.

Respectfully,

Bushmasterguy

glocker21

02-11-2006, 19:52

Originally posted by bushmasterguy
Glocker21, obviously you did not spend anytime reading this thread and I totally disagree with you it is user error with FTE/FTF's

Kimber admitted it was an issue and they fixed it. Oh and btw last weekend I put 850 rounds through my G23 with 0 FTE/FTF's in a 2 day Tactical Shooting Class.

Respectfully,

Bushmasterguy

I do not intend to start a flame war...but I get approximately 8-10 new pistols across my bench in a month. 100% are described as having FTF/FTE or excessive recoil problems, 80% percent of those complaints come down to improper grip, improper trigger control, or simply cheap ammunition (typically poor reloads).

Kimber (I own three), Springfield (I own four, I carry a High Cap daily), Colt, Rock Island Armory, Norinco, and the other M1911 builders as well as SIG (I own a P229), my beloved Glock (I own many), Beretta, etc. all have excellent legal/technical staff that advise the warranty departments, custom shops and the like to replace the "part that has the highest probability of failure" as a preventative measure. Can't say I blame them in this litigious society.

I am very pleased that you spend time on the range, I must add that putting that many rounds through your G23 is impressive due to it's midsize. I commend you for training with what you carry, KUDOS.

My rant was simply to shake the cage a little. I would suspect that your FTE/FTF were simply Kimber's new external extractor with a poor casting/machining flaw. But you have to admit, the vast majority of FTF/FTE comes from improper grip and poor trigger control.

Before becoming a 'smith I was a firearms instructor with a regional academy. I can tell you that virtually ALL FTF/FTE were as we used to like to say "user sponsored".

I trust that you are an avid shooter and maintain your weapons well, unfortunately many gunowners do not. I sure you understand.

I want to assure you that my rant was not targeted at you, just the many people who carry a firearms but do not train, care for it, study deadly force implications, blame firearms for poor user intervention, paint a maker with having a crap line because of one or two problems, and then fail to study the inplications of deadly force encounters. I trust that you do study and train, most don't.

I obviously touched a nerve. I do feel that the external extractor is still new to the M1911 industry and has yet to fully prove itself in my eyes (I guess I am a traditionalist in M1911 design). I must say that my Glocks with External extractors work just fine.

Please email me or PM me so I can get more info on the Kimber issue, more knowledge is good for any smith.

daydreamer

02-11-2006, 19:58

I own two Kimbers - a Custom II and a Pro Carry II. Used to have problems until I switched to Wilson mags. No problems now. Just shot a perfect score in my concealed carry qualification using the the Custom II. Good shooting.

opus x

02-12-2006, 04:12

Well, I would trust my Kimber in gunfight. I have fired over 4000 rounds over a 3 year period through mine with only 3 or 4 malfunctions. And those malfunctions were in the first 300 or 400 rounds. Maybe I am a lucky Kimber buyer. My Kimber is a Custom II with an internal extractor.
BTW not to start a riot but my two Glock loving friends have had more problems with there Glocks.

However, I truly respect both guns and would trust both.

DocH

02-12-2006, 07:40

Originally posted by Bainx
I was going to PM you on this but can not resist the opportunity to point something out.
You can get a Charles Daly 1911 as I did for $350 and know to polish parts and replace a spring and extractor and have a very good running 1911 [now over 2,000 flawless rounds]. On the other hand, you can throw $1,000 at a Kimber and fight and wrangle with them trying to get it right.
Heck, check out the Rock Island 1911. People are raving about it.

If you want to throw more money at it, do the Springfield milspec trip.
If you want to throw even more money at it, do the Rock River trip, Dear God, I don't even make that kind of money in a year. I have to agreee.I guess I'm too old and set in my ways,but my own experience is that when you start to deviate from the original 1911 design,full length guides,external extractors,etc,etc,you're asking for trouble.
There's nothing wrong with some minor tweaking to make a pistola run a little better,but keep it basically original.Browning designed it that way for a real good reason.
A + on the Rock Island.I bought one after consulting with some owners and it's a good running pistola.My 19 yo son has literally taken it away from me,and is about to buy another in a few weeks.
I hope I can get mine back.