I think my 21 has proven its durability [Archive] - Glock Talk

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bigbore
11-21-2005, 14:26
For several years I’ve been abusing and neglecting my Glock 21. A running joke among some friends and I, nothing planned or documented. As I tell people what it has been through, most simply don’t believe me. I wouldn’t either, I guess. If someone told you their Glock has at least 150K rounds through it, and has gone almost 15K rounds with no cleaning or maintenance, would you believe them?

I want to do this so I have documentation, of what has been done, and how it worked. I don’t care about 500rds without a FTE, or FTF. Once it was buried in the mud w/a full mag, and when I dug it out the next day it went bang the first time I pulled the trigger but the weight of all the mud on the slide kept it from cycling. I scraped off most of the mud on my boot and fired the remaining 12 shots without a problem.

I want to know how much can it take and still function. If not function perfectly – what will it take to get running again.


Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
Hey partner, better you than me. I wouldnt do that test on any pistol I've gotta pay for. You do realize of course you're gonna make a $400 gun into a $100 gun?

Its all been done already, I'm just going to keep track this time. Heres a pic after around 15K rounds with no cleaning, and being buried in mud etc...
The barrel fouling was amazing, it was basically a smooth bore.
HTTP://www.besthdw.com/test/glockw.jpg



Originally Posted By dubb-1:
Originally Posted By triburst1:
Which of your 1911s are you going to put through the same tests?[;)]

I'd vote for Springfield Professional Model.

Be well!

Come on over and toss your Pro (video)out the window (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/windowdrop.MPG). Hopefully it will land on my glock instaed of the rocks.

bigbore
11-21-2005, 14:27
Play Sand
Potting Soil
Baby Powder
1 bucket of water for cleaning
2 buckets for mixing ingredients.

This entire process took place over 45 minutes. The pistol was never field stripped, and the only cleaning was dunking in a bucket of dirty water.

Sand
Boring, but gotta do it. Used play sand, good consistency.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/a_sand1.jpg

Need a little pressure so 10lb sledge was used to slightly pack it in place.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/a_sand2.jpg

shot after buried, loaded, closed slide
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/sand1.mpg)

shot after buried, loaded, slide open
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/sand2.mpg)

Potting soil, a good mix various dirt and junk.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/b_dirt1.jpg

slide open
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/b_dirt2.jpg

shot after buried, loaded, closed slide
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/dirt1.mpg)

shot after buried, loaded, slide open
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/dirt2.mpg)


Baby Powder, fine enough to get into everything.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/c_powder1.jpg

slide open
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/c_powder2.jpg

shot after buried, loaded, closed slide
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/powder1.mpg)

shot after buried, loaded, slide open
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/powder2.mpg)

bigbore
11-21-2005, 14:30
Mud (potting soil and water)
Nice sticky mess
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/d_mud1.jpg

remember this is from one test to another, it now has sand, dirt, and powder in it.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/d_mud2.jpg
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/d_mud3.jpg
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/d_mud4.jpg

shot after buried, loaded, closed slide - started to get messy.
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/mud1.mpg)

shot after buried, loaded, slide open
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/mud2.mpg)

Rinse time
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/e_rinse.jpg

Paste – Baby powder and water. Stupid idea.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/f_paste1.jpg
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/f_paste2.jpg

shot after paste, didn’t even try it with the slide open.
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/paste.mpg)

Needs a rinse and mag through to help dry. The mag was empty before the water quit pouring out!
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/afterpasterinse.mpg)


Lets dump everything into one bucket and mix it together.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/g_all1.jpg

That’s about the limit
video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/all.mpg)

The mag is full of crud, the trigger must be pulling at 20lbs, time to rinse again and see field strip.
I wonder if the stone wedged in the transfer bar had anything to do with the heavy trigger?
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/stripped.jpg

For overnight, it will soak outside in a the rinse water mixed with a dose of rock salt.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/saltstew.jpg

good night
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/saltsoak.jpg


I used 1 target for the test, paced 35’ feet away. Not bad considering half the time I couldn’t see the sights. The increased weight of the trigger must have had me pulling to the right.
Need to take more than 1 magazine next time. There were a few times the mag was so full of stuff I only only fit 10 or 11 rounds. I think some of the FTF were partially the mag.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/target.jpg

bigbore
11-21-2005, 14:33
Originally Posted By M4arc:
Excellent! [}:D]

A couple of thoughts:

1) I have a spread sheet that I use to document my G17s history. If you are interested I can send it to you. I have plans to create a PockePC application if you or anyone else is interested.


Too late for that. I'll keep track of rounds fired by the case and post here from now on.

Originally Posted By M4arc:
Excellent! [}:D]
2) The same test(s) needs to be performed on another or a couple other types of handguns. Maybe a H&K or a Sig and a 1911. I know Larry Vickers did a similar test a number of years ago but the history of your G21 is simily amazing so I think you'll have a much different result [;)]


Not me. This has been going on for almost 10 years with this piece. [:)]


Not sure whats next. The large amount of rock salt kept it from freezing out side last night. What would be the best condition for corrosion? Should I leave it outside or bring it in and let it soak? Hos long? The "camera man" from the other pics is convinced the salt will turn the barrel into a rusted mess. We'll see how good the tennifer is.

As a side note - a friend who is a pilot has agreed to take me up this spring and let me throw it out the window of his plane! We'll decide on the height later, but the slowest he said he can go is 65mph.

http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/saltysoak.jpg



Originally Posted By M4arc:
Here's another test: gather up dubb-1, Eric and a few other employees and just go out and run a case through it as fast as you all can. Rotate shooters every few mags to give everyone a chance to reload and see how hot you can get it and to see how many FTF/FTE you have in that 1000 rounds. See how:

- Fast you can put a 1000 rounds through it
- How how it will get
- How many failures during that time

Like I said earlier, it would be nice to see a different pistol being subjected to this kind of punishment [;)]

Yawn. [;)] Been done 3 or 4 times already. Any(quality) clean pistol, with factory ball ammo should run through 1K rounds like nothing. At this point itd be a waste of $200 IMO [:D]
I'm looking for stuff that hasnt been done, what makes it stop, and can it keap going? Like last night, it was so full of ****, the transfer bar wasnt reseting the striker after firing. After a quick manual cycling and the loss of a round - the next went off. What will make it not function, yet still be usable.
If you want to really analyze the videos from the other day, look at the length of the videos, and the number of shots fired. There were some stops, yet I was still able to get most shots on target.

I'm thinking my next plan will be to start breaking parts myself.
Will if function if the spring cups are shattered?
How much if the striker spring can be cut and still work.
Will it run without an ejector?
I'm still stoked about shooting it without the trigger spring!

I dont care so much about it working, I want to find what makes it stop and how to keep going[:)>]



Took the glock out of the salt water, and ran 500rds through it. Sorry, would have done 1K, but this was PAINFUL. No cleaning or oil, since the last tests.


http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/500brass.jpg

I learned I have an aimed rate of fire of 100RPM :-)
Attempted to load several mags at once and blast through one at a time. After the 3rd mag my hand was almost numb, and I had to really hor at holding on. Need to shoot 2 mags rest a couple minutes and shoot 2 more.
partial video (http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/partial500.mpg)

I dont have room on my server for the whole video, but I think TheRicker may be able to host it later. The spliced together video documents every shot. Count the rounds if you want, I think he caught them all.

Time to stick my hand in a bag of ice.[XX(] Not the smartest thing I've done....

bigbore
11-21-2005, 14:33
Salt water is nasty. Looks like all the tennifer pieces are fine, but untreated parts didnt stand a chance. I believe the rust on the barrel dripped down from the guide rod and should wipe right off.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/saltedglock.jpg



Originally Posted By M4arc:
Now run a few hundred through it and retake those pictures!

I'm not physically able, my hand is too sore from the other day still. Its just discolored, everything slides, clicks, and sproings just fine. I'm going to clean everything and see what is actually rust and what is just "runoff".

I'll keep those springs until they break[:D]

http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/saltedparts.jpg



Good as new, almost. The Guide rod has pitting dammage, and so does the slide lock but thats the only evidence remaining. The locking block must have tennifer along with all the pins. The sopts on the bottom of the barrel discolored the finish, but the metal is still glass smooth. The other parts must be stainless steel, as it rubbed off, but didnt wipre righ off like the barrel and slide.
http://members.buckeye-express.com/bthompson/g21/cleanparts.jpg


I finally got a chance to see how it did with bead blasting media. If you have never felt this stuff, its really cool, so small and round, it feels almost like water. Here's a pic of the media used midex with common table salt and a dime
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/beadsize.jpg

I put a few cups in a baggie with the pistol and shook it up good, took it out and shot the rounds I had in the mag. I repeated this three times. The video sucks, as I had to set it up to record by myself.

Bead Media Test (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/beadtest.mpg)

First time no problem, except I got a beads all over my face, so I let it run out a bit on the second. The second time a round failed to feed because the magazine was binding up. The third time, was worthless because I had gotten enough media in the mag to make it useless. The weak spot here was the magazine, the media got in there and had no where to go. A new magazine and I'm sure it would work fine. Not a flawless test, but I cant find the line until I cross it. Again, nothing that a simple field strip and shaking out couldnt fix and back into action.
After I shook it out, I put a handful of play sand in the bag and shook it up. Same old results from every other time it was full of sand. It worked just fine.

bigbore
11-21-2005, 14:34
Just a .22 pistol 30' away. I didnt expect it to do any damage, if we hit where we were aiming. Hit it 10 times before I lost my nerve and didnt want to risk hitting the frame. One hit the extractor, but didnt hurt anything.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/shotglock.jpg

video of 1st 2 hits (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/glockhits.mpg) pictured above.


Originally Posted By M4arc:
What kind of damage did it do to the finish? Clean it up and post pictures please.

I took some degreaser and steel wool to one of the spots. It basicaly rubs right off.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/bulletmarks.jpg



Another stupid idea, but the flat slide seems fitting. hammer (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/hammer.mpg)

Its been boiled before , no ill effect.

ever wonder what the magwell looks like after inserting hundreds of muddy magazines, and forcing mags into a muddy frame?
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/magwell.jpg


Over time the transfer bar and disconnect have worn grooves into each other. I guess that will happen what contacting metal parts are never oiled. This may be the reason for the 8.5lb trigger?
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/disconnect.jpg

And for those who say the plastic mag catch will wear out..... nope, they built it plenty strong too.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/magcatch.jpg

bigbore
11-21-2005, 14:35
A customer came to me last week with his USP .45 Compact he had just gotten it back from HK who had replaced a broken trigger bar. It has fewer than 1K rounds through it, and is well taken care of. He asked me if I would trust a pistol that broke, and was fixed by the factory. I said no. He asked me to run 500rds through it and see what happened.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/21andUSP.jpg

I took his pistol and 8 magazines, My 21 and 8 magazines, and 1K rounds of ammo.
Both pistols were field stripped and blown completely clean and dry with compressed air.
2 mags were emptied in clean condition to make sure everything was fine.

For the fist comparison I threw a couple handfuls of play sand in a bucket.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/glockuspbuckets.jpg

bucket shake (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/bucketshake.mpg)

I took each pistol, full mag, round in the chamber and shook it in the sand for a few seconds. I did this first with the 21 and it went bang 13 times as expected.

I pulled the USP compact out of the bucket(it was loaded but decocked), pulled the trigger, hammer falls but no bang. I pull the trigger again and still no bang. Not a squib, and not a delay. I cycle the slide and eject the cartridge, but it fails to go into battery. I repeat, while shaking out sand, until the magazine is empty. After removing the slide blowing the frame out with compressed air I repeat the test.
wont lock (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/wontlock.mpg)
Back in the bucket, shake, attempt to shoot – exact same results. Field strip and blow out with compressed air. This was attempted 4 times, with 4 different magazines. The first shot did go off once, but did not lock up for the following round. Again it required fieldstripping to function.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/bucketsandresultsUSP2.jpg


OK, it doesn’t work in sand. For a different twist, I took a UPS mag and a glock mag and threw them in the bucket and shook them up.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/bucketsandmags.jpg

I picked up the 21 mag, loaded the pistol, pulled the trigger 13 times. I then picked up the USP mag, pulled the trigger once and it went bang. The slide failed to close on the second round. Ejecting the 2nd round partially inserted the 3rd but also a bunch of sand. The USP mags have basically a shovel extending for the slide stop, which proved them useless combined with the sand.


Sand is over, time for good old potting soil. Potting soil was basically a repeat of the sand. The USP never went bang once. Even with a round in the chamber, and numerous hammer strikes, nothing.
hammer (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/hammerhits.mpg)
Cycling by hand ejected round, but would not lock up on the following round.


After that we gave up, on the USP and took turns emptying the several full 21 mags.

I’ll return the customers pistol and his 500 rounds. This USP compact went bang every time clean, so it works fine. I would never trust it though, as a carry piece.

bigbore
11-21-2005, 14:35
I wanted to try another salt water test on the slide and barrel. I mixed up a good mixture of road salt and water, and poured it into a glass of water. I then took a sock I had been using as a rag, and put the slide and barrel in the sock. I then put the sock into the salt water glass. I know it needs air to rust so I poured out the access water, and set the glass on the outside windowsill where it was exposed.
Well, the sock is now dry. Will leaving it sit for a few more days accomplish anything more or has this test gone as far as it can go?

http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/saltdays.jpg



After 1 week there the rust is seeping through the once black wool sock.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/saltsock1week.jpg

I think its just runnoff rust from the sights. Its supposed to be raining for the next day here, so I'll set it on my back deck to rinse off overnight.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/saltsockresults.jpg



Time for some WD40 and a brillo pad
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/donerusted.jpg

I learned how deep the tennifer goes. corners of the slide where it had been dropped/dinged/gouged were full of honest to goodness rust. The brillo also seemed to tak off most all of the black finish for the first time too!. I guess the concentrated salt water in the sock was the last straw for it. Other than the damaged areas, nothing rusted, so I'l sure under normal use it would have been just fin under the same conditions.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/rustcleaned.jpg



http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/g213_27.jpg



http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/xmarks.jpg
Preparation for one more test. X marks the spot. 500’ at 100PMH. Will take place as soon as can be coordinated between plane, pilot, and spotter on the ground.

bigbore
11-21-2005, 14:36
I’m still waiting for the corn to come down for the plane toss, but I wanted to think of something I haven’t done yet. I never put it up against a pick up truck?

Speedbump?
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/speedbumppic.jpg
speed bump video (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/speedbump.mpg)


Dirt speed bump?
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/speedbumppicd.jpg
bump in dirt video? (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/speedbumpdirt.mpg)

Need to shake the dirt loose form the barrel, so I tied it to the bumper
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/drag1pic.jpg
shake the dirt out video (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/drag.mpg)

Run through what mags I have loaded.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/functionpic.jpg
function check video (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/dragshots.mpg)

May as well shake it out with one more road trip. The mag was always full, but no round in the chamber for the “draggings”.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/roadtrippic.jpg
One more trip down the street video (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/longdrag.mpg)

The rear sight took a bump to the right.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/sightover.jpg

couple wacks with hammer should get it back on paper.
sight adjustment video (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/sightfix.mpg)


Looks good, lets see how it hits at 35’. (sorry for the focus was zooming in on the target)
Accuracy Video (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/abittotheleft.mpg)

results
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/leftat35ft.jpg
A bit to the left, but good enough. Even after all its been, it still groups as good as it did the day I got it, well at least as well as I can shoot it!

I wondered how it shoots at 50yds with S&B ball ammo, and the filthy crunchy, heavy trigger?


First 13shot group was to the left, so I gave it another wack with the hammer. The second 13shot group was the bad guy. Good enough for a fighting .45!
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/26at50yds.jpg

bigbore
11-21-2005, 14:37
I'm really running out of ideas, so decided to drop it off the roof with a primed case in the chamber to see if it would go off.
Primed brass in the chamber, and a full mag for weight in the pistol.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/dropday.jpg
video (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/droppedglock.mpg)

No surprise, it didnt go off. The surprise/scare was when I went to shoot it. the first 3 shots went off fine. The 4th failed to lock into battery, so I had to wack it closed. 5th shot went off fine, but 6th failed to go into battery. I wacked it but it was stuck. I went and got the hammer and pounded the slide back and locked it open. Everything looks ok? I put the mag back in and close the slide on the next round. Works fine, goes bang. The following shot locked the frame out of battery again with the round half way in the chamber. I opent it up with the hammer again and field strip it to see what wrong. Trigger bar bent? frame bent? I'm sitting on the ground and pick up one of the rounds that was stuck and drop it inthe chamber - it wont fit. WTF? I putt it out and its flat on one side. Bullet case and all. I grap the others and they are the same. I guess it fell hard enough to smash all the rounds staggered on that side of the magazine.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/dentedrounds.jpg
Oh well, it still works.


Just a reminder, this isnt a "test" only pistol. This is my usualy IDPA, 3 Gun, Carbine class pistol, and it does not get cleaned/lubed before use.

I used it in a 3 Gun match on Saturday, and as usual, it worked like a clock.

http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/3gun21.jpg

Originally Posted By glock23carry:
Quit babying that gun and do something nasty to it.

G


It gets normal use. I need the 13rd capacity when shooting at poppers set for 00 buck, that will only go down with head shots.
shot gun poppers (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/shotgunpoppers.mpg)

bigbore
11-21-2005, 14:37
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/approach.jpg

the video (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/plane_drop.mpg)


It took me 20 minutes to find it stuck in the dirt, so its only fair for you wait [:D]

All that was visible, was the bottom of the magazinem and about 2" of grip, the rest was under ground.

Here's what the point of impact looked like.

http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/impact.jpg

So what do you think it will look like when I pull it out of the ground?



Recovery Video (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/drop_recovery.MPG)


Originally Posted By dport:
So what happened did the top soil make its way in and cause what appeared to be failures to go into battery?


There was dirt in everything. When I took it out of the dirt the slide stuck back about 1".
I had shook most of it out by the time we had walked back to the yard. It shot and functioned fine, didnt even have to field strip.

function video (http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/stillgroups.MPG)

Still very much minute of dead. Not bad considering what its been through and not having any cleaning or lube since page 12.


Originally Posted By jdessell:
BigBore, is the gun still accurate, how well does it group with all of this torture done to it ?

It shoots just as well as I have ever been able to shoot it. I can easily hold a fist size group at 30', which all I need.

Heres a 25' 10 shot group immediately after it was dropped from the plane, with the trigger still full of dirt.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/glock/drop_group.jpg

dmarker
11-21-2005, 14:47
Thanks for posting the meat of the thread from ar15.com. Now I get to hear people call you crazy..... and you reply - no I'm not - still is just as accurate as the day I bought it.;W

The most interesting thing from that test was the fact that dropping the pistol from the roof on the driveway impacted the frame hard enough to flatten the cases enough to prevent them from chambering. I can't remember what contract it was, but the glock failed a similar throw test (magazine inside) that other metal framed and metal magazined pistols passed. Anyone remember which contract?

OXEN
11-21-2005, 14:54
But you didn't fire it out of a cannon?~shame~

Hickeroar
11-21-2005, 15:36
Glad to see you bringing this over here. I read through that over on ar15 on friday for the first time. I was amazed... Makes me proud to be a glock owner...

SawgrassRaven
11-21-2005, 16:06
I find it funny that alot of the "plug" fans use the argument that it keeps out pocket lint, which *may* cause a problem...


This gun survived all this, I doubt pocket lint is any threat!


Good job! ^c

CFII
11-21-2005, 16:09
This test is one of the main reasons I will never get rid of my G21. That and the fact I shoot it so damn well.

PaladinX13
11-21-2005, 16:15
Thanks for your work in the name of science!

cl147
11-21-2005, 16:25
Great thread and videos.

Thanks for sharing your work.

BlackRifleFever
11-21-2005, 16:43
Great test. You can trust that pistol.

Boondock Saint
11-21-2005, 18:02
AWESOME...

shamus005
11-21-2005, 18:26
;P

wow.

instigator
11-21-2005, 18:28
you're not gonna do this to every gun you have, just to prove that its good enough to carry, are you?

shaun748
11-21-2005, 19:00
Awesome test and posting of it!!

good job.

FL CORR OFCR
11-21-2005, 19:03
This is the most amazing torture test I have ever seen done to a pistol. I am a new G21 owner and after seeing the hell you have put this gun through, I will never give up my G21;W
Have you considered duplicating the 10k rounds in one day torture test done on the SIG 220?
I have no doubt that the G21 would work great, but if you put that SIG through any of the tests you did to that G21, it would fail for sure.
The G21 rocks!!!~2

BallisticTip
11-21-2005, 19:16
Good testing. ;f

bigbore
11-21-2005, 19:22
Originally posted by FL CORR OFCR
Have you considered duplicating the 10k rounds in one day torture test done on the SIG 220?

Sure, if you pay for the ammo:cool:

buddyRoland
11-21-2005, 21:44
Try that on any other pistol. Glocks Rock and so does your thread. Very interesting.

maomanila
11-21-2005, 21:55
Am sure glad I chose the G21 over the HK UPS.

Sly_C
11-22-2005, 00:42
Awesome tests, i'm also a member over at ar15.com and almost fell over in my chair when i saw that you threw that damn thing out the window of a plane! Now what I want you to do is go buy a Glock 23 and do it all over again, so I can feel good about my gun too. :cool:

shooter05
11-22-2005, 12:23
Never a doubt but was great reading. I love mine too.

edpmedic
11-22-2005, 13:18
So do you turn it in for Warranty Work now?

firepower_426
11-22-2005, 13:20
Amazing thread, nicely done!

dualG22s
11-23-2005, 08:38
Excellent thread and testing

I almost cried when I saw the hk usp all messed up and abused. I've loved HKs for show, but Glocks for go.

I have to hurry off for work and didn't get through the whole thread so maybe it was addressed but as far as broken spring cups go...

I carry a g22 for leo work. During the yearly inspection by dept glock armorers, they found the spring cups were cracked. both were being held in by the tension of the spring and whatever else holds them in.

I was freaked cause i didn't know how long they had been like that. i was worried i was carrying a gun that would not fire. the armorer loaded the broken cups up int he gun and we went to the range.

after 46 rounds, all on my belt and in gun, i was satisfied I'd be OK. We had new cups on hand, but i don't worry if they break again.


stay safe

bulwaagh
11-23-2005, 14:46
Originally posted by edpmedic
So do you turn it in for Warranty Work now?

Why? Whats broken with it? All the videos I saw shows the gun in proper working order. :)

Ain't broke, why fix it?;c

El_Ron1
11-23-2005, 18:16
http://www.lightspeedfineart.com/images/Harris_DrSmith.jpg

epsylum
11-23-2005, 19:22
This needs to be stickied.

Links to your AR15.co thread were pretty common. You always got those "why would you do that to a perfectly good Glock" type of people, some were even mad that you did that. I always thought it was pretty informative in the box-of-truth type non-scientific testing kind of way.

BTW I love my G21 and will never give it up.

Just look out for those HK freaks trying to say that you set it up so thier gun will fail.

IIRC you also did some testing with a CZ and it faired quite well also. Glocks and CZs rule.

Stupid
11-23-2005, 20:19
You guys have so much money. My!!

Meat-Hook
11-23-2005, 20:28
After seeing all those pics,...I just feel
even more confident and proud of my Glock 21!

thanks for the pics and thread.

November
11-23-2005, 20:33
I honestly wonder how a Ruger P94, P95 or P97 would hold up to your tests. They're supposed to be pretty tough guns.

glocklight
11-23-2005, 21:33
Absolutely Freaking Amazing! Thank you for verifying that my latest purchase was indeed an excellent choice. I kept hearing about Glocks amazing endurance and now I can say I've seen it. Great job on the tests.

TimC
11-23-2005, 21:45
Originally posted by bulwaagh
Why? Whats broken with it? All the videos I saw shows the gun in proper working order. :)

Ain't broke, why fix it?;c Uummm...the warranty work statement was meant as a joke I do believe. A funny one at that.

edpmedic
11-23-2005, 21:51
Yea the warranty work was a joke. I thought he might want to have it refinished and maybe the recoil assy replaced.

J.P.
11-23-2005, 23:15
At this time,I'm going to make passionate love to *my* G21.
I'm talking seriously hot man-on-gun action!
Can I post pics?
;)

Cool Hand Hodge
11-23-2005, 23:30
with my luck, ill be the guy who gets this gun from gunbroker! Nicley done!

ducati
11-24-2005, 05:34
According to Larry Vickers the G21 is the worst Glock and can't stand up to the sand test. Only the 1911's that he builds, and the HK's, He has worked for HK. Will pass the sand test. Oh by the way I have seen a Vickers 1911 jam with less than 2000 rds through it.

bigbore
11-24-2005, 08:46
Originally posted by ducati
According to Larry Vickers the G21 is the worst Glock and can't stand up to the sand test. Only the 1911's that he builds, and the HK's, He has worked for HK. Will pass the sand test. Oh by the way I have seen a Vickers 1911 jam with less than 2000 rds through it.

I have always wondered about comments about the "worst glock ever"? I wonder if hes biased?

Lets give Larry $600 to buy a 1911, and 100K rounds to put through it before the tests. The only thing hes allowed to replace is 1 recoil spring. Did he do this with the slide open or closed? Cocked and locked with a round in the chamber, or empty chamber hammer down?
What has amazed me, is my glock has over 100K rounds through it, and I dont have more than $600 invested in it.


Heres the sand tests I did with available pistols. They were tested 3 consecutive times without cleaning. The person shaking the bucket the first time wasnt shaking it too violently because he didnt like a locked and loaded pistol being banged around in a bucket pointed at his legs. I guess I dont have enough sense to worry about it.
This test isnt scientific, but it shows what I wanted to see. What will keep going -if not go bang every time, what will it take to keep running. A couple pistols here had to be completely detail stripped, white other had some failures to lock up, but were back int he fight after ejecting and chambering the next round.

Glock 19 (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/glock19.mpg)
Glock 27 (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/glock27.mpg)
Glock 36 (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/glock36.mpg)
CZ 40 (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/cz40.mpg)
HK USP full size (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/hkusp.mpg)
SA PRO (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/sapro.mpg)
Kimber Custom (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/KimberCustom.mpg)
Kahr P9 (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/KahrPt9.mpg)

WFR
11-24-2005, 11:01
About the only test left would be to contact NASA, strap it onto the front of a shuttle and see how it survives re-entering the Earth's atmosphere!
Or you could feed it to an elephant and see what the digestive juices would do to it. Of course you'd want to take the sights off first to "ease" the exit. We don't want the PETA group getting ticked off.
Awesome tests! Thanks!

jonathon
11-24-2005, 11:33
Bigbore, thanks for the vids!

Wow, even the full size was defeated by the fine sand ;P

Victory
11-24-2005, 11:47
now that it's nice and consolidated, someone sticky it.

Cool Hand Hodge
11-24-2005, 11:54
Originally posted by ducati
According to Larry Vickers the G21 is the worst Glock and can't stand up to the sand test. Only the 1911's that he builds, and the HK's, He has worked for HK. Will pass the sand test. Oh by the way I have seen a Vickers 1911 jam with less than 2000 rds through it.

This is the dumbest kind of thinking. I swear, some people dislike glocks, simply because they are not a 1911. Ill be honest, i think a 1911 is antiquated! But it remains because somwhere, there is a guy sitting in a room reading a book about the 1911 and openly weaping thinking about pappy and his colt 45. This is such crap!!! Honestly, im a young shooter at 23 so i dont understand it, but give me a freakin brake....the future is now!

Cool Hand Hodge
11-24-2005, 11:55
Welcome to page 3




P.S...STICKY THIS NOW!!!

Jur
11-25-2005, 05:15
Wow... just.. wow...

So happy I bought a G21 now, but even more frustrated that I have to wait a long time for it :(

jonathon
11-25-2005, 15:14
Bump for sticky! ;f

tweakmeister
11-25-2005, 17:53
pretty cool! thanks for posting!

fabricator
11-25-2005, 18:34
I own three 21's two I bought used on......................uh, say pard, have you ever sold any used 21's on gun broker?^4

El_Ron1
11-25-2005, 18:42
Originally posted by fabricator
I own three 21's two I bought used on......................uh, say pard, have you ever sold any used 21's on gun broker?^4 ;z ~1 ~1

Walter45Auto
11-25-2005, 19:24
bigbore I saw your thread on ar15 forum. What's the latest you've done to it? Thought Up Anything new lately? I have really enjoyed your thread, and it really says something great about GLOCKS. It's a big part of the reason why my next pistol will be a GLOCK.


;g






;8 ;I

westie10019
11-25-2005, 22:12
AND this proves what? There are a lot of Glock owners with to much time and money on there hands? So they take a pistol and abuse it far beyond what limit. Any person who has a firearm whose life may despend on it's use would never let the firearm get to this condition.

I humped a 16 for 91/2 months in the bush @ the Battle of Vietnam. My ass depended on this weapon working %100 of the time, it was kept clean and well maintained. So the point of abuseing this Glock is WAHT?

Grow up KIDS!

Hydra-SHOKz
11-26-2005, 04:30
Originally posted by westie10019
AND this proves what? There are a lot of Glock owners with to much time and money on there hands? So they take a pistol and abuse it far beyond what limit. Any person who has a firearm whose life may despend on it's use would never let the firearm get to this condition.

I humped a 16 for 91/2 months in the bush @ the Battle of Vietnam. My ass depended on this weapon working %100 of the time, it was kept clean and well maintained. So the point of abuseing this Glock is WAHT?

Grow up KIDS!

It proves that Glocks are tough freakin' pistols.Its doubtful that any of our Glocks would be put through anything like this but its very interesting to see what its limits are.I would think most of the fellas here would be smart enough to keep there weapon as clean as possible when there life may depend on it.I must admit that I'm amazed of its durability.I doubt there is a steel or aluminum frame gun that is cable of this.So the point of abusing a Glock is what? BECAUSE YOU CAN!

fabricator
11-26-2005, 06:43
Originally posted by westie10019
AND this proves what? There are a lot of Glock owners with to much time and money on there hands? So they take a pistol and abuse it far beyond what limit. Any person who has a firearm whose life may despend on it's use would never let the firearm get to this condition.

I humped a 16 for 91/2 months in the bush @ the Battle of Vietnam. My ass depended on this weapon working %100 of the time, it was kept clean and well maintained. So the point of abuseing this Glock is WAHT?

Grow up KIDS!


You have never heard of torture testing? Did you read all of his posts? How about the one where he tested the 21 and the HK together?
The Glock worked every time the HK didn't, wouldn't you say that is useful information? How do you know the conditions that will prevail when and if God forbid you ever have to use your carry weapon? Maybe you drew your weapon and dropped it in a mud puddle, and then struggled in the dirt for it, the scenarios are endless, it is nice to know the Glock will fire even if some wild unlikely scenario would occure.

MIch_Packer
11-26-2005, 20:32
I read this post this morning and I ...

I bought a G21 this afternoon.

It's my fourth Glock. There is something about a gun that doesn't require a gunsmith to tune. Doesn't cost and arm and a leg for parts if you want to experiment.

I just wish ammo was free.

fabricator
11-26-2005, 20:42
Originally posted by MIch_Packer
I read this post this morning and I ...

I bought a G21 this afternoon.

It's my fourth Glock. There is something about a gun that doesn't require a gunsmith to tune. Doesn't cost and arm and a leg for parts if you want to experiment.

I just wish ammo was free.

It can be close, if you roll your own, go to www.bluepress.com and check out the pretty pictures
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/fabricator01/DSC00434.jpg

Boondock Saint
11-27-2005, 00:12
Originally posted by westie10019
AND this proves what? There are a lot of Glock owners with to much time and money on there hands? So they take a pistol and abuse it far beyond what limit. Any person who has a firearm whose life may despend on it's use would never let the firearm get to this condition.

I humped a 16 for 91/2 months in the bush @ the Battle of Vietnam. My ass depended on this weapon working %100 of the time, it was kept clean and well maintained. So the point of abuseing this Glock is WAHT?

Grow up KIDS!


Wow, I guess your right...Ya know, maybe we shouldn’t crash cars in those stupid crash tests...I mean after all, why ruin a perfectly good car to save a few piddly lives? We shouldn't worry about how much stress a seatbelt can take, I'm sure it'll be juuuust fine... ;Q

bigbore
11-27-2005, 00:41
Originally posted by westie10019
I humped a 16 for 91/2 months in the bush @ the Battle of Vietnam. My ass depended on this weapon working %100 of the time, it was kept clean and well maintained. So the point of abuseing this Glock is WAHT?

Grow up KIDS!


This is not Nam. This is bowling.

JP500
11-27-2005, 00:51
All of this could have been avoided had you just listened to Tommy Lee Jones' advice in US Marshalls:

These things are so cool. Did you know they'll shoot under water? You can pour sand in them and they'll shoot. Shoot everytime. ITs a good choice.

JohnQGlocker
11-27-2005, 02:49
I'm just surprised the torture test didn't result in a kaboom. ;) BUt seriously, great post.

spork
11-27-2005, 03:12
This was one of the most interesting and entertaining posts I have ever seen. Thanks for sharing!

bulwaagh
11-27-2005, 08:43
Originally posted by bigbore
This is not Nam. This is bowling.

Mark it zero. Its a league game, Dude.

Cool Hand Hodge
11-27-2005, 15:17
Originally posted by westie10019
AND this proves what? There are a lot of Glock owners with to much time and money on there hands? So they take a pistol and abuse it far beyond what limit. Any person who has a firearm whose life may despend on it's use would never let the firearm get to this condition.

I humped a 16 for 91/2 months in the bush @ the Battle of Vietnam. My ass depended on this weapon working %100 of the time, it was kept clean and well maintained. So the point of abuseing this Glock is WAHT?

Grow up KIDS!

Perhaps if Macnameria(sp?) would have done that to a few m16, there would be a few less dead Soldiers in SE Asia who had POS first gen. 16s lock up in battle

Rusty Guns
11-27-2005, 19:12
And I thought my 21 was being abused because I didn't clean it every week, after shooting Pins with it. She has 10K rounds down the tube and I still win about once a month. No falt of hers, she shoots a lot better than I do. She still looks just as good as she did when I got her, and she still shoots just as good. If I'll just take my time and let her do her thing she will put them all in a very small hole. Like I said she puts them right where I point her. I just don't point as good as I used to.

Awsome tests, now I've seen all my Glocks "Put through the wringer."
A recent Book showed torture testing a G23.
Older Glock Annual tested a G17

Thanks for showing this

Rusty

Longbow
11-27-2005, 19:34
Awesome!
Thanks for all the hardwork and for sharing. I think I know what's my next purchase gonna be.....another Glock! :)

jonathon
11-27-2005, 21:19
Bigbore, let the LAPD borrow your Glock ;)

Grovenator
11-27-2005, 23:23
Hey bigbore, I saw this over at arf and think it is the poop man! I still can't get registered to post over there so to hell with it! I got on over here so her it is: YOU THE MAN! I already loved my M21 now I sleep with it every night. The wife is totally convinced I'm nuts now! Next thing you know, I'll be doing it too! Well........maybe not!~1

GLOCK22SHOOTER
12-17-2005, 21:23
I wouldnt be able to bring myself to doing all that to my sweet beautiful G22.Awesome test though and exellent posts on the results.Glad to see glocks really are perfection.I always knew that though.;)

Douglas in CT
12-18-2005, 20:50
bigbore:
With all that abuse of that Glock 21, I am worried about you. ;f :cool: ;)

Well done! ^c^c

Kahr PM9
My video player did not convey the results of the PM9 sand test at all well( jerky video, out of sync audio, etc) Would you mind letting me know what happened there?

Thank you.

Fear762
12-19-2005, 09:12
Originally posted by jonathon
Bigbore, let the LAPD borrow your Glock ;)


That would be illegal, banned due to unreliabilty. no mud either ;g

Keiler
12-19-2005, 09:46
Originally posted by westie10019
So the point of abuseing this Glock is WAHT?


It proves that there are weapons out there which do NOT need proper and regular cleaning to work under adverse conditions. A thing the M16/AR15 system is not from what I can tell.

ThePrepared_com
12-19-2005, 09:55
Originally posted by Keiler
It proves that there are weapons out there which do NOT need proper and regular cleaning to work under adverse conditions. A thing the M16/AR15 system is not from what I can tell.

The tests are valuable to a lot of people. We would all love to test our firearms like this but most of us cant take that chance. So when someone makes the sacrifice and shows everyone the results we are extremely gratefull!

brewer90
12-19-2005, 19:28
Originally posted by Douglas in CT
bigbore:
With all that abuse of that Glock 21, I am worried about you. ;f :cool: ;)

Well done! ^c^c

Kahr PM9
My video player did not convey the results of the PM9 sand test at all well( jerky video, out of sync audio, etc) Would you mind letting me know what happened there?

Thank you.

I could only see about half of the video but the sound kept running. It shot the first mag fine and went back in the bucket. Jammed after the first round on the second mag and wouldn't fire again after cycling and went back in the bucket. Fired the first round of the third mag and jammed but he cycled the slide and got two more shots and then it was done and wouldn't fire.

Oh and I thought Kimbers were POS's. What's with it running through three mags without a hiccup?;)

njl
12-19-2005, 20:12
Note to self: Never send a firearm to ADCO for "work"...again.



:)

edpmedic
12-19-2005, 20:24
Originally posted by njl
Note to self: Never send a firearm to ADCO for "work"...again.



:)

Why...I have never had problems with them.
Adco and Delton have always done great work for me. almost immediate service on parts and shop work.

I need to add..Sorry to hear that, but did you call Adco and tell them there is a problem. I am sure Steve will make it right.

SIGlock
12-19-2005, 20:37
Moderator,

This is a must read for Glockers. Please make this post a permanent sticker.

Glocker424
12-19-2005, 20:38
I myself own a Glock 30 and Glock 21..Sometimes I carry the Glock 21 buts it mainly my home defence gun. Its loaded with 230 grain Golden Sabors. I load my Glock 30 with the same round also.

njl
12-19-2005, 20:41
Originally posted by edpmedic
Why...I have never had problems with them.
Adco and Delton have always done great work for me. almost immediate service on parts and shop work.

I need to add..Sorry to hear that, but did you call Adco and tell them there is a problem. I am sure Steve will make it right.

Missed the smiley? From the links, I assume bigbore is connected with ADCO, and I certainly wouldn't want to see my stuff tortured like that. I assume the limited torture testing on the customer's HK was with their permission.

ADCO threaded and put a Phantom on my AR...and it looks like it was born that way.

edpmedic
12-19-2005, 20:49
WOW...Glad to hear that and didn't realize it also.

Same hear Adco does my Supressors till I got set up to do myself. I know one thing their service is fast and excellent. I do not have any stock or part in Adco. I am just glad to see a place to trust.

Gulfcop
12-20-2005, 01:07
Where did I put the number to GPS? [Glock protective Services] that pistol is being abused and it's parent must be investigated.....

LOL awesome testing;f ;f

walpur6isknight
12-23-2005, 01:55
wheres the sticky people? josh you really need to read this one.

I FLEX
12-24-2005, 16:15
^6

OMFG!!! ;G That totally reaffirms my wanting a Glock.

To those that ask why this was done. It helps to easy the mindset of those that are worried about durability and functionality of their Glocks in the worst Life or Death situation.


Like one range master told me, He loves his 1911 to death and its considered the top of the line kinda like a Porche. But his Glock is like a old Honda (old faithful). The 1911 works like a charm if everything is perfect and fine tuned, but the Glock can be old and used and not in the best shape but it's known to still work regardless.

pangris
12-27-2005, 02:41
Wow.

Just b/c of this thread, the G21 may be on the nightstand a bit more than it has the past year.

The only thing I'd seriously consider in the furture is *your safety*. Bore obstructions, etc etc. I'm amazed no one got their proverbial eye put out. Simply wearing gloves like Friskers and a heavy denim shirt would probably go a long way.

FINGERS ARE EXPENSIVE.

That said, I think the thread does have a lot of value. I have some high dollar 1911s that I doubt would do as well. However, I know they will make it through 99.999% of the things they will encounter... you being that last .0001% ) Stay away from my safe!

Good testing, glad no one was hurt. A little more safety, then onward and upward!

You know, I bet all the 1911 haters would each chip in $10 to see you do this to a mil spec springer... hell, find a die hard 1911 smith and let him tune the extractor, etc etc... I'd love to see the results.

I do think some might be suprised how well the old horse ran... :cool:

Trumpet
12-27-2005, 14:09
Originally posted by ducati
According to Larry Vickers the G21 is the worst Glock and can't stand up to the sand test. Only the 1911's that he builds, and the HK's, He has worked for HK. Will pass the sand test. Oh by the way I have seen a Vickers 1911 jam with less than 2000 rds through it.

Complete bull****. When Larry originally posted his test on 1911 forums (I searched today and it's gone forever since he removed his name off the posters list), yes the Glock choked, but do did his 1911. What ADCO put his G21 through is a LOT more than what Vickers did.

How do some of you get the "you guys have so [sic] much money" comments? This is HIS gun, NOT one he just bought to test. He uses it and carries it and it still works fine, so he's not really out any more than anyone else with one, is he?

Pyzik
12-28-2005, 11:21
This Thread helped me decide between GLOCK or a SIG... obviously I chose the GLOCK (G22)

Hemmingway
12-28-2005, 23:42
Originally posted by bigbore

Glock 19 (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/glock19.mpg)
Glock 27 (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/glock27.mpg)
Glock 36 (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/glock36.mpg)
CZ 40 (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/cz40.mpg)
HK USP full size (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/hkusp.mpg)
SA PRO (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/sapro.mpg)
Kimber Custom (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/KimberCustom.mpg)
Kahr P9 (http://www.besthdw.com/sandbucket/KahrPt9.mpg)

Props to CZ and Kimber! Boo on the HK! I love how the guy filming was like "Failure! Failure! Failure!" LOL.

GlockX35
12-29-2005, 08:36
Well...yeah...

Originally posted by bulwaagh
Mark it zero. Its a league game, Dude.

Trumpet
12-29-2005, 09:53
Originally posted by Hemmingway
Props to CZ and Kimber! Boo on the HK! I love how the guy filming was like "Failure! Failure! Failure!" LOL.

It was a USP compact. Would it have been different with a fullsize? Maybe yes, maybe no.

bigbore
12-29-2005, 10:01
Originally posted by Trumpet
It was a USP compact. Would it have been different with a fullsize? Maybe yes, maybe no.

It was a full size. The compact was the day before and performed the same.

Trumpet
12-29-2005, 10:06
ahhhhhhh I only saw the compact test from the original ARFCOM thread. My bad.

Now it looks like a need a 21 as well ;)

El Bronco
12-29-2005, 10:25
Hey Bigbore, congrats on your 'mission successful' with that Glock.
;)

Was that a totally 'stock' pistol? Would have worked differently with the Maritime springcups? Did/are the sights loosened where you had to install new sights? I don't think the plastic ones fm Glock would have stood up to that abuse.

You can always drive over it on concrete etc...next time. ;f

Bronco

SKYWLKR
12-29-2005, 18:06
;1 ;1

Trumpet
12-29-2005, 20:56
Originally posted by SKYWLKR
;1 ;1

?

mac66
12-30-2005, 08:53
Somebody should send this thread to Jeff Cooper, the guru of the "if it is not a 1911, it is worthless," crowd. ;)

Hemmingway
12-31-2005, 02:17
Originally posted by mac66
Somebody should send this thread to Jeff Cooper, the guru of the "if it is not a 1911, it is worthless," crowd. ;)

The 1911, while not subjected to the Glock tortures (kimber, anyway) performed admirably. Sorry, but 1911's are still the ****. Glocks are better, though! :) (It only took the human race how long to trump John Brownings design? With what technology?

blackstangs281
12-31-2005, 17:24
Amazing!! Thanks for confirming what we what we get when buying a glock. I carry a G30, it's never let me down, but I'm much more proud of it now. I have a Para Ord P10-45 that I think would jam if you said the word sand.........Thanks again

HAWK11K
12-31-2005, 19:37
All of that makes me want to get another G21. :)

hunk9
12-31-2005, 21:42
The test is entertaining, but the serial number shows the G21 to be less then 6yrs old. If it was almost 10yrs old wouldn’t it be a 2 gen frame? Just wondering. ;c

Angel King
01-02-2006, 07:50
Amazing. I think I'll buy another one with the tax return. Thanks for the info. I had begun to lose some confidence in the old 21 since all it's recent troubles.

sharkbait
01-03-2006, 18:51
Glocks Rule

Thanks Steve ;a

glockendoc
01-04-2006, 21:49
thanks for the evaluation....

all three of my Glocks have broken!

of course, they kept working as a firearm - and a good one - inspite of being broken - in fact, the operators usually didn't even know they were broken while being used.

on the other hand, I have seen limpwristing slow down the firing rate - I think those operators were "scared" of the Glock they were holding (sort of Freudian).
sort of "plastic traumatic stress disorder"

gd

Herbststurm(D)
01-05-2006, 10:27
Bigbore,
i wonder why the barrel didnt explode with all the dirt in it. I heard of incidents where even smaller objects in the barrel like cleaning wipes etc. where the cause for the barrel go bang, when the bullet did hit the object.
Did you plug the barrel with something (cellophane, wax etc.) before sticking it in the mud?

bigbore
01-05-2006, 10:32
Originally posted by Herbststurm(D)
Bigbore,
i wonder why the barrel didnt explode with all the dirt in it. I heard of incidents where even smaller objects in the barrel like cleaning wipes etc. where the cause for the barrel go bang, when the bullet did hit the object.
Did you plug the barrel with something (cellophane, wax etc.) before sticking it in the mud?

I always made a visual check that the bore was clear.

Glockgirl26
01-05-2006, 11:13
#wav

jrp
01-05-2006, 20:25
Fascinating.
Thanks.

Walter45Auto
01-05-2006, 21:30
Originally posted by Glockgirl26
#wav

#wav

Somebody's gotta be polite and wave back, and nobody has, appearantly. So I will. How are you doing Glockgirl?


;g






;8 ;I

Glockgirl26
01-06-2006, 07:32
Originally posted by Walter45Auto
#wav

Somebody's gotta be polite and wave back, and nobody has, appearantly. So I will. How are you doing Glockgirl?


;g






;8 ;I

I'm good today, thanks for asking!;f

How you doin'?;)

Jack23
01-06-2006, 09:33
As the proud new owner of a 21 I find this entire thread very encouraging. 'Course now, I don't intent to neglect or mistreat my new best friend but it is a comfort to know that should circumstance and fortune cause me to put off cleaning it for a day or two it won't blow up in my face next time I fire it. ^6

Sly_C
01-06-2006, 09:45
Originally posted by Glockgirl26
I'm good today, thanks for asking!;f

How you doin'?;)

you sound like a goodfella asking that. haha. How you doin'? Lol.

keeper85
01-06-2006, 10:57
Remarkable, I am sure this would hold true for any model GLOCK.
Thank you for putting it through the abuse for us to see how great our weapon is.
While I have no doubt my GLOCKS (yes my family of GLOCKS now numbers 2 ;f )
I just can not bring myself to abuse any weapon.

Thanks again for sharing your work.

Walter45Auto
01-06-2006, 14:25
Originally posted by Glockgirl26
I'm good today, thanks for asking!;f

How you doin'?;)


I assume your a fan of the show Friends?

But, I'm doing ok.;f


;g






;8 ;I

bigbore
01-06-2006, 19:53
Originally posted by Walter45Auto
[B]#wav
Somebody's gotta be polite and wave back, and nobody has, appearantly. So I will. How are you doing Glockgirl?


Sorry I missed that post, and I dont think I can discuss in public what Glockgirl26 was talking about doing with my 21;P

wino_ii
01-07-2006, 09:15
very cool man! thanks fr sharing and putting this together!

Inova_lover
01-07-2006, 23:35
you have just assured that my glock 26 will NEVER be sold!

ThePrepared_com
01-07-2006, 23:48
I dont think I posted this in the actual thread but I thought I would give you a heads up just in case. With the permission of Bigbore I posted the write up on my site in a easy to read format. You can see it at
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Itemid=40

I'm working on getting the videos up.

Scott
ThePrepared.com
Ready for Today. Prepared for Tomorrow.

Rebeldon
01-09-2006, 16:09
Next test...drop it off the Sears Tower. ;f

Glockgirl26
01-10-2006, 08:41
Originally posted by bigbore
Sorry I missed that post, and I dont think I can discuss in public what Glockgirl26 was talking about doing with my 21;P

;z What kind of sights do you have on it again?;)

beefums
01-11-2006, 12:09
See this is the sort of advertising friggen Glock should use. I mean come on. That thing has been through hell and lived to talk about it.


Glock: You pull the trigger and it goes boom.

How is that for a tag line?

liquidACP
01-11-2006, 12:53
Thanks for such a great thread. I am a new member and just went through all your posts. Makes me feel even better about owning my modified G21 (Will post some pics later). Go big bore shooters! ;f

ShootNMove
01-11-2006, 19:21
Thanks Bigbore! You gave me some great ideas for my upcoming Glock vs. 1911 torture test!!!

utmstudent
01-12-2006, 17:26
so is this gun going to be for sale anytime LOL J/K

s10trav
01-12-2006, 22:59
Some might call you crazy, other may call you excentric, I shall name you Glockcentric! You have done what others never would do in 1,000 years. I have a mod. 23 and I treat it like a priceless piece of art work. You sir have proved that if it came to it, mine would funtion in the most hellish conditions...My hat goes off to you! May God bless you in your continuing efforts to abuse Glocks! http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d40/s10trav/my232.jpg How does it feel to see one in nib condition? <c>b

LA 11/95
01-13-2006, 22:32
Well, after seeing ur results I felt confident in selecting the 21 as my new duty gun.

Since I haven't left my position at my cuurent agency yet...I decided to put my issued Sig p-226r .40 through the sand test.

Let me set the scene:

Quarterly 36 round qualification, 2 yr old 226 in .40,lubed with TWB-25, Winchester white box ball ammo.

Bucket w/dry sand and 226 slide locked back w/o mag., shake shake shake.

Results:
Attempted to drop slide and load 1st round, would not go into battery.

Tap rack, Boom! Spent casing was ejected but the subsequent round failed to feed and jammed on ramp.

Tap rack Boom! Similar results as described above for the next 6 rounds. After that the shots seemed to have loosened up the action and I shot the remainder of the course w/o incident.

I have never had an issue with my 226, but It was nice to see that my next duty pistol performed better.

Thanks BIGBORE!

seed
01-14-2006, 10:48
Am I the only one cringing every time I read about someone torturing their $700+ non-Glock guns? It's one thing if you are doing a full on test-project, but man...

I would love to have a Sig 226 in .40. But I can't afford it. And if I could, sand and other torture-test materials would be as far away from it as possible. I had little doubt the Sig would not pass anyway. It's a very nice gun, but its design is not as torture-resistant as Glocks and that is obvious.

Angel King
01-14-2006, 15:18
He didn't pay for it Seed. It's an issue gun.

seed
01-14-2006, 18:31
Yeah PAHLAVAN, I got that. I guess I didn't acknowledge a clear difference in private versus issued gun tests (obviously the financial aspect would only matter to the tester if the gun was paid for privately). One of my points was meant to say that abusing an expensive gun (issued or not) which will obviously not pass an abuse test makes me cringe because I cannot afford one right now...which is the only way I could get my hands on one.

It's like when I see an old classic car get sacrificed for a scene in a movie. I know the actor, the director, the stuntman (etc) did not pay for the car (obviously), but it makes me cringe none-the-less when I see it get destroyed. Many times the cars being sacrificed are rare and irreplaceable...one more gone after the scene. I know that they sometimes use a mock-car for the scene...but often they do not. It makes me cringe. And I think to myself...these guys have way too much money and or access. They should have given that car to me and done CG (even if it doesn't look as real).

Angel King
01-14-2006, 18:36
Issued guns are usually not in the best condition, unless you get lucky and get a new one. Mostly they're handmedowns.

RMTactical
01-16-2006, 04:46
Superb testing and documenting! Kudos!!

Comforting to see the Glock takes such a lickin and keep tickin!

SIGSAREBETTER
01-16-2006, 04:50
Originally posted by seed
Am I the only one cringing every time I read about someone torturing their $700+ non-Glock guns? It's one thing if you are doing a full on test-project, but man...

I would love to have a Sig 226 in .40. But I can't afford it. And if I could, sand and other torture-test materials would be as far away from it as possible. I had little doubt the Sig would not pass anyway. It's a very nice gun, but its design is not as torture-resistant as Glocks and that is obvious.

Dont get me wrong, I love my GLOCK, plan on future GLOCKs, and am damn impressed by this thread. But the 226 is both designed to be and IS element and torture-resistant, as evidenced by decades of real-world use with NSW and other agencies and units who report excellent results in the field.

seed
01-16-2006, 05:42
SIGSAREBETTER, how do you think the Sigs would fare in this torture test as compared to a Glock?

P.S. I love Sigs too, have two and wish I had more.

SIGSAREBETTER
01-16-2006, 06:26
Originally posted by seed
SIGSAREBETTER, how do you think the Sigs would fare in this torture test as compared to a Glock?

P.S. I love Sigs too, have two and wish I had more.


Tough to say, although I'll concede probably not as well. For one, the finish is not as good on a SIG, particularly stock bluing but even Nitron. So the exposure/rust/corrosion test would be in the GLOCK's favor. The SIG has more moving parts and exposed hammer, etc, so it may somewhat more vulnerable to some of the junk tests. But for sand/dirt etc, it's hard to imagine the SIG not matching the GLOCK given my experience (3 SIG P226s). I've never purposely done what he has w/ his G21, but my active outdoor lifestyle in the rainy PacNW has gotten my guns plenty of exposure.

As for the bullet tests, I've only heard of one incident involving a CA LEO whose 226 took a centerfire round of some sort, he fired once and they took off. IIRC it could not fire after that, but then the GLOCK was dealing with rimfire rounds so it's tough to say. I'd day the stamped steel slide variants would fare worse, but who knows.

I prefer the SIG, I think the SIG can match the GLOCK step for step in anything a combat/defensive handgun might normally encounter (while having more panache :cool:), but I'll concede the GLOCK might have a few advantages as far as this over-the-top test is concerned.

Angel King
01-16-2006, 13:17
You ever want to know about the function and quality of a sidearms, just look at how many agencies use it. The Navy seals, British SAS and thousands more did not choose the 226 because it would jam easily in harsh conditions. The only reason the U.S. military went with the 92FS is price. And look at how many issue the Glock. They're both aewsome when it comes to reliability and torture tests.

R3508
01-18-2006, 23:30
To think there was a time when my pals would "break my balls" for not babying my beloved G17.....
I thought that I was abusing my first Glock, obviously, I was just "breaking her in"! This is why I never turn down a deal on a good used Glock!

Stony
01-22-2006, 17:52
Its sort of ironic/moronic that I am catching guff from some of the guys at 1911forum.com b/c I'm pissed that when I dropped my Kimber SS-II , the Mainspring Housing shattered and gun pieces went everywhere. From a plane? no- From a rooftop? no- I dropped it accidentally from my hip holster onto a concrete floor. A 3 to 4 foot drop and the "venerable" 1911 crapped out. I plan on fixing it, since the customer service isn't exactly top knotch, and selling it in order to buy a (duh dah dah dahhh!) Glock 21 after reading this thread. I have a G22 already, but like 45acp as a personal preference. Great job with the testing. Please forward to U.S. Government - and whoever is incharge of buying sidearms like the M9 for "duty use". After seeing your thread and tests, I might buy an extra one to keep in a tool box, or tie to a rope and drag behind my jeep. (its a joke fellas) but not to far off from what the Glock Test Champion of the world did here. Bravo!

Angel King
01-22-2006, 18:10
I like the 1911. Use to have a para LDA that was great and I kick myself for selling it. But the design is from, errr.. year 1911. Can't compare with Glocks etc....

But I still likem a lot for not owning one.

MARTIN FISHER
01-22-2006, 21:01
I knew a SWAT officer who was repelling a three story building in training, his Sig got ripped from his holster and fell to the conctrete, shattering the frame on impact. A fellow officer, carring a Glock 22 laughed. The bet was on and the Glock was unloaded and tossed off the same three story building, the tritium vile in the front sight broke, but the G22 was fine. Take it for what it's worth.

Great thread.:)

Walter45Auto
01-22-2006, 21:57
Originally posted by MARTIN FISHER
I knew a SWAT officer who was repelling a three story building in training, his Sig got ripped from his holster and fell to the conctrete, shattering the frame on impact. A fellow officer, carring a Glock 22 laughed. The bet was on and the Glock was unloaded and tossed off the same three story building, the tritium vile in the front sight broke, but the G22 was fine. Take it for what it's worth.

Great thread.:)

What it's worth? It's worth BUYING A GLOCK AS MY NEXT PISTOL!!;f Seriously though, his tests, and stories like the two above, are waht really made me decide for sure that I want a GLOCK as my next pistol (Well, that, and shooting a G21 and a G30.).


;g






;8 ;I

Angel King
01-22-2006, 22:04
I just picked up my 21;)

Walter45Auto
01-22-2006, 22:07
Congratulations. You'll LOVE IT! It's a TACKDRIVER! (Don't own one yet, but I HAVE shot one, better than I've ever shot any other firearm, I might add.)


;g






;8 ;I

Angel King
01-23-2006, 08:37
Thanks, but I already know I love it. I use to carry one before switching to the G-22. Now I'm going back.

RiverVan
01-23-2006, 10:52
Thank you for your hard and competent work for al of us on GT. It was tests like you have done that brought me to Glock almost a decade and a half ago now. I’m a 9mm and .40 guy my self but if your 21 will “take it” like that so will my .40’s. I appreciate it, and please keep on posting! Maybe someday you can put together a book to compete with “The Complete Glock Reference Guide”! I’ll buy a copy! Seriously, I do appreciate the posting and the expense and time you have one to!
River

Sulaco
01-25-2006, 11:42
Used to own a 21 (or two), sold it (them), just bought another one. Good to know they are so durable, but I guess this test could have easily been done with ANY model Glock since they are all virtually the same, well at least where it counts they are. I think I will hold onto this one. Thanks for all the hard (fun) work!

diver 1956
01-25-2006, 11:58
I wish I could say that my Glock 26 was that dependable. I bought a new one and within the first 100 rounds (Winchester 115 gr. FMJs) I had 3 FTF (light strikes on the primer).
I sent it back to Symrna where they supposedly "fixed" it. When I got it back I ran another box through it of the same ammo. and had light strikes at 70rds, 106,rds, and 110 rounds.
Before someone critisizes my grip, let me say that I teach CHL plus for almost 3 years I test fired guns for the local police dept crime lab., so I'm not a limp wristed shooter.
Yes, it's going back to Smyrna again!

creophus
01-25-2006, 13:58
Originally posted by SIGSAREBETTER

As for the bullet tests, I've only heard of one incident involving a CA LEO whose 226 took a centerfire round of some sort, he fired once and they took off. IIRC it could not fire after that, but then the GLOCK was dealing with rimfire rounds so it's tough to say. I'd day the stamped steel slide variants would fare worse, but who knows.
Please explain this. There's no such thing as a rimfire Glock...is there?

Angel King
01-25-2006, 14:05
.22 LR conversion kit???

DriBak
01-25-2006, 22:23
;?
Thanks

GSD17
01-29-2006, 13:24
Originally posted by creophus
Please explain this. There's no such thing as a rimfire Glock...is there?


You are just reading it wrong, he is referencing where he shot the G21 with a .22 .

Angel King
01-29-2006, 16:37
You're right. There are pics too.

XeniaSt
01-29-2006, 20:10
WOW !! I'll describe this in my instructor training classes...

7.62FMJ
01-30-2006, 12:27
I think the number one thing here is that Glock will perform in any hostile condition. The only drawback of Glock's is that they are not for looks, they are ugly, and honestly they lack soul. They look like they were designed by machines for machines, a tool, without character. This is why the JM Browning designs will live on forever simply because Glock may function but few pick it up to admire it. I think Glock could easily change this, maybe contour the slide a bit, put some lines in it, add a saftey option for those who want it, etc.

Gwuock19
01-30-2006, 12:38
"That which in itself has the greatest use, possesses the greatest beauty."

Stony
01-30-2006, 14:07
Personally, I think glocks are great looking guns. If you want engraving and precious walnut stock carvings- then buy a winchester commemerative to hang over the fireplace. Glocks look like a professional. When someone sees a glock, they are thinking "ah crap- they mean business" I will slightly agree that the older glocks without finger groves or sight rails are somewhat less attractive to me- but as far as J.Browning's design is concerned, I think to myself on sight
A.Is the gun going to function properly ever time?
B.If it does, how much money did they spend to get it to do so.
C.What sort of conditions would that gun in particular hold up in?
D.IF or WHEN it malfunctions, how much is going to be spent in repairing the break down?
I'm the sort of guy that likes knowing my gun has a higher survivability rate if I dropped it out of a moving vehicle at 80mph. I think of glocks as the Volvo's of the gun world. They can take a hell of a beating and still function, and while the earlier models may have been blocky (yet utilitarian), the later models are starting to have more curve/sex appeal and still maintain the utilitarian part that made them famous.

Angel King
01-30-2006, 16:04
Originally posted by Gwuock19
"That which in itself has the greatest use, possesses the greatest beauty."

In other words. When it goes bang instead of click. That is a beautiful thing. Specially if S is hitting the fan.

Ironbarr
01-30-2006, 17:51
In a word - YES. Your 21 has proven its durability. I am sure hoping my G19 is at least half the "man" your 21 is.

Reading through most every reply here there are three things I've recognized:

(1) a real effort to legitimately test and honestly proof it all with photos, videos, and text; and,

(2) an example of a practical, rather than theoretical, critical examination effort to prove a subject's reliability under stressed conditions; and,

(3) that this was done without a "jaundiced eye" or snide or snickered comment when other brands tested had problematic results.

Thank you, big bore... and thanks too, to those who helped you.

-AndyB

Apocalypse_Now
01-30-2006, 19:19
Don't get me wrong, I like Glocks, owned a M17 years ago and I'm planning on buying a M21 and do the combo caliber longslide 10MM thing

But give me your Glock 21 frame for an afternoon anf I'll let my Rottweilers have at it. Nothing survives a Rottweiler! ;g


I'm new and figured my first post should be a doozie ;f

Angel King
01-30-2006, 19:40
welcome aboard

Razoreye
01-30-2006, 21:15
Originally posted by Apocalypse_Now
Don't get me wrong, I like Glocks, owned a M17 years ago and I'm planning on buying a M21 and do the combo caliber longslide 10MM thing

But give me your Glock 21 frame for an afternoon anf I'll let my Rottweilers have at it. Nothing survives a Rottweiler! ;g


I'm new and figured my first post should be a doozie ;f
Welcome. Many here used to own Glocks or never have but still stick around because this board is that great. Hope you enjoy your stay here, as I certainly have. You find all sorts of practical information, BullShnikes, trolls, more good information, humor, OAF (Ox and Alex Forum) where all goofiness abounds, politics, religion, and 43,904,523,435,234 opposing views. It's great!!

6285108
02-02-2006, 15:31
Originally posted by Apocalypse_Now

But give me your Glock 21 frame for an afternoon anf I'll let my Rottweilers have at it. Nothing survives a Rottweiler! ;g


;f

I can tell you what Rotties do have a tough time surviving......Two 158 grain semi jacketed soft points from a S&W model 19.....I hate foot chases through the ghetto, lots of bad dog owners turning out bad dogs.

On topic my first year G21 is one helluva good gun still going strong.

Apocalypse_Now
02-02-2006, 18:33
Originally posted by 6285108
I can tell what Rotties do have a tough time surviving......Two 158 grain semi jacketed soft points from a S&W model 19.....I hate foot chases through the ghetto, lots of bad dog owners turning out bad dogs.

On topic my first year G21 is one helluva good gun still going strong.

Yes, and out here in the real America there are lots of well-bred and trained Rotties, family dogs and home guardians. My gal and I have owned Rotties for over 20 years and never had any trouble. We just rescued a nice little affectionate 1 year old purebred Rottie girl from the pound and she's going to make a great family addition after some training

The problem is the ghetto inhabitants, not the ancient Rottweiler breed, THE most intelligent canine on the planet,
which was carefully, scientifically genetically planned and bred by Germans for over 2,000 years from war/guard dogs left in Rottweil, Germany by the retreating Romans

BallisticTip
02-02-2006, 18:44
Ok lets not talk about shooting doggies. ;f

Apocalypse_Now
02-03-2006, 12:14
Originally posted by BallisticTip
Ok lets not talk about shooting doggies. ;f

+1

Edgeofthewoods
02-05-2006, 00:21
Originally posted by 7.62FMJ
I think the number one thing here is that Glock will perform in any hostile condition. The only drawback of Glock's is that they are not for looks, they are ugly, and honestly they lack soul. They look like they were designed by machines for machines, a tool, without character. This is why the JM Browning designs will live on forever simply because Glock may function but few pick it up to admire it. I think Glock could easily change this, maybe contour the slide a bit, put some lines in it, add a saftey option for those who want it, etc.
Well My wife is one of those twisted few that thinks her G19 is "cute" She also likes my G21 She thinks it is cute also. Well there is no call for taste She married me after all!!!

Chuck

Dimmak
02-07-2006, 20:08
Detonics stress test (http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=496255)

bigbore
02-07-2006, 20:43
Originally posted by Dimmak
Detonics stress test (http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=496255)


Factory loaded ammo is pretty clean. I see nothing impressive about shooting a bunch of rounds through a clean firearm. I would expect any moden production type pistol to be able to do the same.

Razoreye
02-07-2006, 21:27
Originally posted by bigbore
Factory loaded ammo is pretty clean. I see nothing impressive about shooting a bunch of rounds through a clean firearm. I would expect any moden production type pistol to be able to do the same.
Can we expect any new "tests" to be conducted on the ol' 21? ;f

bigbore
02-07-2006, 21:37
Originally posted by Razoreye
Can we expect any new "tests" to be conducted on the ol' 21? ;f

I'm basically all out of ideas. I also just added up the cost of the ammo I put through it the last 2 years. Even at dealer cost, looking back, I spent way too much money which I wish, I had spent on other things now. There were several months where I was going through 1K rounds a week just for $hits and giggles, and to see what it looked like after 13K rounds. Figure $150 per thousand rounds of good brass ammo...

Ironbarr
02-07-2006, 22:10
bigbore, let's not get into buyer's remorse; you took a journey to prove a point and having proved it, you have graciously given hundreds or more of GLOCK owners the evidence they need to have great confidence in their personal defense selection(s).

Thank you, sir.

-AndyB

THEPOPE
02-10-2006, 23:09
Bigbore, YOU ARE THE MAN, MAN.....a-friggin`-mazing pics and vids....I thank you, my cardinals thank you, my priests thank you, hell, even a few rabbi`s I know, thank you....great job...I just discovered this tghread, for I am new here, glad I came to Glock Talk. Info like you provide is invaluable to us old noobs.

SALUTE,SIR..imout and humbled by yer tenacity..:cool:

spenceinva
02-16-2006, 21:26
How about running it with a few thousand rounds of Wolf for a while? Be nice to see that crap put to a rest.

Glockdude1
02-19-2006, 03:45
Excellent Story & Pics........

;N

kernal_panic
02-23-2006, 21:52
Originally posted by diver 1956
I wish I could say that my Glock 26 was that dependable. I bought a new one and within the first 100 rounds (Winchester 115 gr. FMJs) I had 3 FTF (light strikes on the primer).
I sent it back to Symrna where they supposedly "fixed" it. When I got it back I ran another box through it of the same ammo. and had light strikes at 70rds, 106,rds, and 110 rounds.
Before someone critisizes my grip, let me say that I teach CHL plus for almost 3 years I test fired guns for the local police dept crime lab., so I'm not a limp wristed shooter.
Yes, it's going back to Smyrna again!

ok let me get this straight. you bought a gun, fired ONE brand and type of ammo and when it didn't work with the only ammo you tried in it you sent is back?

I'm sorry but that is just plain stupid.

My cz-75 sa eats every brand of 9mm ammo i feed it like its popcorn..

EXCEPT WWB. failure to extract city.

winchester white box ammo is garbage. PERIOD. I know alot of you guys shoot it without a problem But I am seeing thread after thread of gun problems, not just here, where WWB was the ammo used.

and people call wolf junk!

Angel King
02-23-2006, 22:54
Winchester White box 9mm is crap. My Storm hates them too.

Stony
02-24-2006, 00:36
I've used WWB in every pistol I shoot. It shoots fanfriggintastic (for me atleast) with one exception. Out of 10-20,000 shots fired, I had a failure to fire with 3 40S&W shells- all out of the same box. I'm not real crazy about WWB 38sp- it burns a little too dirty for me. Remington on the other hand is my no-no brand. I've had terrible luck with their primers. I'm not a huge user of Wolf b/c of what I heard on here about the laquer (sp) they use on the steel cases jamming some of the glocks up. But I'm thinking of starting and throwing caution to the wind with the way ammo prices are going. Speaking of WWB, I'm off to wally-world now to pick up some for my new varmint rifle. I like going up randomly at night (like 1:30am) to get milk, bread, and shells- just to throw them off a little and make the guy from sporting goods to quit hitting on the girl in electronics, to come and get me shells.

RedRyder21
03-07-2006, 17:48
Originally posted by Stony
I like going up randomly at night (like 1:30am) to get milk, bread, and shells- just to throw them off a little and make the guy from sporting goods to quit hitting on the girl in electronics, to come and get me shells.

Your Wal-Mart sells ammo after 9pm!;P WoW!!!!

I wish the Wasl-Marts around here would do that!

JohnQGlocker
03-08-2006, 22:31
Win white box works fine in my 26, and Sigs and Para Ordnance, and XD. Any Glock should eat WWB just fine. Try some Magtechs and American Eagles just for kicks. Sounds like it just needs a new striker and/or striker spring. As long as there isn't any junk in that channel slowing the striker. You haven't buried your Glock in baby powder, sand, etc have you? :)

Stony
03-08-2006, 23:03
hah no baby powder or sand...My glock gets treated with kid gloves- which is ironic b/c I bought it for its durability....Nahhh the striker was hitting the primer good and hard- I could see after I ejected the shells. Like I said, it was just with 3 rounds out of about 10-20,000....now if that happened every 100 rounds, I'd be little bit more peeved. Actually, I'm off to wal-mart again to be a nuisance to the night shift by getting some shells. I don't understand. They'll put out rifle shells in deer season, and shotgun shells (even buckshot) year round. But if you're after some 9mm or 45acp, ohhh my! We have to call the manager with his keys for that sir? Give me a break.

JohnQGlocker
03-09-2006, 02:06
I know what you mean. Walmart is weird like that. Wow, it looks like the ammo was bad. That's bad news, but I haven't had any problems with it yet.

RWBlue
03-10-2006, 00:01
ABUSE, ABUSE, ABUSE
It should be criminal to abuse a gun that much. :->

Good test
Have you tried blowing it up? Maybe with Black Powder?

buckweet
03-15-2006, 14:18
Originally posted by RedRyder21
Your Wal-Mart sells ammo after 9pm!;P WoW!!!!

I wish the Wasl-Marts around here would do that!

I THOUGHT WALLY-WORLD SOLD AMMO 24/7 ? SUPER-CENTERS.

AT LEAST THE ONE I GO TO DOES.


WEET

RiverVan
03-15-2006, 14:38
Originally posted by buckweet
I THOUGHT WALLY-WORLD SOLD AMMO 24/7 ? SUPER-CENTERS.

AT LEAST THE ONE I GO TO DOES.


WEET

In Miami they don't sell at night either!

7.62FMJ
03-15-2006, 14:46
BTT:cool: ;g ;c

New Glock for sale- dropped only once, fired very little. LOL.

Angel King
03-15-2006, 20:52
Don't you mean, "Never fired and only dropped once?" LOL

tacticaldawg
03-16-2006, 22:23
crazy durability.

ArizonaSeven
04-04-2006, 10:57
That is, hands down, the best documented durability test I've ever seen. Heck, I didn't even realize you had video links for the whole thing until I went back and showed it to my son. Excellent! Makes me proud to own a 21.

blinddog
04-05-2006, 13:25
I haveowned a G21 since 1991 I carried it every day until I retired in 1998.My pistol retired with me. I know that it went through hot summer dust storms and freezing winter blizzards as welll as a few torrential rainstorms once i came in from an ice storm and found it frozen in the holster.I made sure it was cleaned after most trips to the range,and when I was in rain or snow,or somtimes to wipe the dust off in the summer. I don't know how many rounds I have put through it several hundred thousand I would guess. I took it out the other day and shot three full mags through it, they had been loaded since I retired in the summer of 1998. They fed flawlessly it fired perfectly. I had left those three mags loaded intentionally to see if they would still feed after a few years. I guess seven is good enough for a test. Those mags still feed flawlessly too.I am thinking about getting a ccw when the KS leg gets there thumbs out and pass the law. I was thinking a small da revolver but now I think the old warhorse will come out again, or maybe I will just have to get a G30 one can never own to many Glocks after all.:laughabove: ;) A good excuse for the wife anyway

7.62FMJ
04-15-2006, 08:50
For the ultimate reliable combination; an AK-47 with a Glock. Nothing else comes close in reliability on this planet. :cool:

Walter45Auto
04-15-2006, 13:47
Got that right dude!


:freak:






:reindeer: :50cal:

Glocker424
04-22-2006, 22:57
Very good testing.

BlindBoyJoe
04-24-2006, 12:55
Ok, you are the best sales person of all time. I am buying a Glock 21. Thanks for the post and the information!!!!

Stony
04-25-2006, 21:08
BIG-BORE- I am going to blame you totally for 2 new glocks. I bought a G17 after seeing what you did to your 21 (figuring A.9mm is cheaper to shoot B. In a SHTF situation, 9mm would be easier to come across) but oh no that wasn't enough. I stopped at a gun shop today near my hometown have never been there before, just to check it out. I left ordering a G21, night sights (they didn't have a g21 with night sights in stock- thus ordered separate), a blackhawk holster rig- 2 mag pouches, and 3 extra mags- comes in thursday...its all your fault. I'm even thinking of sending my Kimber 1911 down the road to buy 45acp shells. Thanks for making purchase yet another gun that I definitely need! hahah. Seriously great testing. I even told the guy running the gun shop to check out this thread on glock talk- he seemed to be a pretty awesome guy, into all sorts of pistol shooting. While I'm posting, did you have any trouble with the magazines? Either the knotch catch wearing out, or springs? any of that. Oh yes, and I noticed today that you changed to an after-market guide rod- why so?

Illuminaughty
04-28-2006, 14:22
Do a +P+ ammo glock torture test, specifically L7A1 ammo!

betyourlife
05-15-2006, 05:47
Test a Sig in 9mm or .45

9mm will obviously be cheaper...I am sure we can all chip in...

81jasonG23
05-21-2006, 07:49
That was an amazing test, I am a G23 owner and that test you did should be put on the Glock Website for all to see and you should get some cash for it. Incredible!!!! Makes me pround to own a Glock. Funny you should match it up to a H&K, while looking at a g23 at local gun show the dealer said that the h&K was better than the glock (and about $400 more and much heavier). I am going to forward this post to all my friends.

JohnQGlocker
05-21-2006, 22:40
I love Glocks to begin with, and this thread made me want to try a 21. Well, I did, and it was good. I rented a couple 45's, which both were very dirty. One was a Para Ord LDA, Tac-S I believe. Well it was nice, heavy though, all steel. The trigger felt gritty, it was well used and not cleaned. Not much of a surprise to me, it jammed, only once though, but within 30 rounds. Then I rented a Glock 21. It was DIRTY. But that didn't even phase me after seeing this thread. And as I expected, it was flawless, and very accurate and soft shooting. It left me thinking, why do I even have Sigs? (I've narrowed my prefs to Glocks and Sigs) If I could go back, I would buy nothing but Glocks. Of course, my Sigs have been trouble free too, but now I prefer Glock triggers etc.

LifeSpeed
05-25-2006, 22:54
this is the best thread of all time, makes me wanna kiss my g21c

LifeSpeed
05-25-2006, 23:03
By the way can anyone tell me can my G21C take the same punishment as the non "c" 21...?

GSD17
05-26-2006, 00:58
Yep.

HAWK11K
05-27-2006, 09:51
Originally posted by 7.62FMJ
For the ultimate reliable combination; an AK-47 with a Glock. Nothing else comes close in reliability on this planet. :cool:

+1;)

Illuminaughty
05-27-2006, 10:09
quote:
Originally posted by 7.62FMJ
For the ultimate reliable combination; an AK-47 with a Glock. Nothing else comes close in reliability on this planet.


Originally posted by HAWK11K
+1;)

+1 :cool:

Exactly why I have both.

jfowl31
05-28-2006, 23:32
Some of these questions are because I am new to glocks, but it seems logically to me that other Glocks may not be as reliable as the 21...

being a 45 auto, the recoil springs will be stronger than a 9 or 40, and that combined with more force froma heavier slide will cause it to surpass some obstructions in the way of the slide or bullet being chambered. But as I say I could be wrong since I don't know that much about Glocks in general, just guns in general.

Also, being a 45 auto, the barrel diameter is obviously bigger making it easier for obstructions to clear on their own from the barrel. a 9 or a 40 barrel might clog easier than a 45 with the wet sand and such.

Obbviously a very impressive test and a great read, I'm just wondering if all glocks could stand up the the 45 auto glocks. a 10 mm seems like it would be on the fence to me with stronger springs but still a smaller bore.

anyone tried anything severe on their 9mm or 40 cal to add to the discussion?

RiverVan
05-28-2006, 23:51
Originally posted by jfowl31

anyone tried anything severe on their 9mm or 40 cal to add to the discussion? [/B]

There are multiple 10,000 round stress tests out there on Glock 17's. Ptooma did a 10,000 on a G-23 in the Complete Glock Guide (Maybe it was 12,500).

There was a 12,500 round test on a glock 37 in the Glock Anual one year ago.

Personally I baby mine, I paid for that one. :)

THEPOPE
06-08-2006, 21:37
Bigbore, a man NOT from Nantuckett....

Packed sand, and his Glock, in a bucket-

Stirred it around....

Fished it out, and he found....

Downrange, a bullet, he could still chuck it !!







Bullets he fired at the slide.....

Left a mark, on his Tennifer pride-

Racked it back, load a round....

The report is the sound....

His gun works, that fact cannot hide !!





Not content with that test, used his brain....

Left the ground, tossed it out of a plane-

Hit the dirt with a thud....

Halfway buried in mud....

Kicked it off, fired it at the terrain !!!







Imout :cool:

stiletto raggio
06-10-2006, 21:51
Originally posted by THEPOPE
Bigbore, a man NOT from Nantuckett....

Packed sand, and his Glock, in a bucket-

Stirred it around....

Fished it out, and he found....

Downrange, a bullet, he could still chuck it !!







Bullets he fired at the slide.....

Left a mark, on his Tennifer pride-

Racked it back, load a round....

The report is the sound....

His gun works, that fact cannot hide !!





Not content with that test, used his brain....

Left the ground, tossed it out of a plane-

Hit the dirt with a thud....

Halfway buried in mud....

Kicked it off, fired it at the terrain !!!







Imout :cool:

This is the greatest response to the greatest thread ever.

I doubt I'll get a G21 (my 20 might get mad at me) but it makes me happy to see this.

gunman_23
06-10-2006, 22:12
It is this TRUE torture test that is the reason H&K, Kimber, Sig Sauer and all the others will sit at home if I could only have one pistol for my life.
Glocks are invincible!

Correction:

Glocks are the Chuck Norris of firearms.

Morpheus411
06-15-2006, 11:08
In other words... as my signature below says and Glock's (2006) Annual magazine article by Dan Bernoulli- "AFGHAN GLOCK 17",he sums up... Durable, accurate, easily maintained, and, most importantly, RELIABLE, the GLOCK is a weapon I have depended on in combat overseas and on the streets of the U.S. If I were going back to combat tommorrow and could take any handgun made, I would choose a GLOCK. There is no stronger endorsement I can give. And to you bigbore, "my hats off", thanks.

HKP7M13
06-18-2006, 03:00
Originally posted by gunman_23
It is this TRUE torture test that is the reason H&K, Kimber, Sig Sauer and all the others will sit at home if I could only have one pistol for my life.
Glocks are invincible!

Correction:

Glocks are the Chuck Norris of firearms.

The Glocks do the round house kick as well ??

(sorry, I just could not resist it, it's all about the mighty chuck) :supergrin:

Great Thread !

Stony
06-18-2006, 03:22
Glock is the Chuck Norris of firearms!!!

SweetG21
06-18-2006, 10:12
Shameless Promotion!!

I wonder if Gaston Glock has seen this thread. I think he owes you some sort of commission.

Awesome Thread!!!

TexasGlock23
06-19-2006, 15:38
Now that my friend takes alot of #$%^& to do that, but it makes me feel even better now that I spent my money on a Glock! Thanks for sharing

Jared

Poodle
07-04-2006, 07:21
Wow! Glad I bought a Glock 21! I do have a tendency to baby it though, as if it'll break at the slightest bump. Anyway, thanks Bigbore for the testing. I can trust my G21 all the way.

krept
07-27-2006, 20:06
awesome thread.

i'm not sure if this was covered earlier, but is there a way to edit the posts and fix the broken links to some of the photos? Gotta love everything about this one.

cheers

HAWK11K
07-27-2006, 20:43
Originally posted by Illuminaughty
quote:
Originally posted by 7.62FMJ
For the ultimate reliable combination; an AK-47 with a Glock. Nothing else comes close in reliability on this planet.




+1 :cool:

Exactly why I have both.

Same here. :) :)

THEPOPE
07-27-2006, 22:12
Why, oh Why, do we never hear from Mr. Bigbore? Is he dead? Did he not survive his OWN torture test? Do we " bore " him? Is he merely glowing in his past by lapping up all this praise? Can he even hear me?

Does he secretly PM " special ' folks? Does he really not exist?

My faith has waned, crumbling, faulty, weak, human.

Imout, nearly a " Bigbore agnostic ".


:cool:

SomeDay
07-27-2006, 23:15
Originally posted by Glocker424
I myself own a Glock 30 and Glock 21..Sometimes I carry the Glock 21 buts it mainly my home defence gun. Its loaded with 230 grain Golden Sabors. I load my Glock 30 with the same round also.

If possible, could you post a picture of the two side by side. I am thinking about getting one or the other and haven't decided which. This thread is making me lean towards a 21, but still don't know. Can't get to a gun store for a while to check them out, so I thought a picture would be the next best thing.

amd4me
08-23-2006, 15:21
Originally posted by njl
Note to self: Never send a firearm to ADCO for "work"...again.



:)
I was gonna say, I sure hope that isnt a customers HK.

halo913
08-29-2006, 01:47
that is awesome!

TexasGlock23
09-05-2006, 08:15
Originally posted by Boondock Saint
Wow, I guess your right...Ya know, maybe we shouldn’t crash cars in those stupid crash tests...I mean after all, why ruin a perfectly good car to save a few piddly lives? We shouldn't worry about how much stress a seatbelt can take, I'm sure it'll be juuuust fine... ;Q
:rofl:

Thanks for the test, I couldn't afford to do it with mine, but it is great you have so much trust in your weapon!

hankhan
09-05-2006, 08:29
Incredible. Glock should give you a new gun.

dinod
09-29-2006, 16:33
This should be a sticky in the new G21 board

royal glockster
09-30-2006, 18:50
Originally posted by Poodle
Wow! Glad I bought a Glock 21! I do have a tendency to baby it though, as if it'll break at the slightest bump. Anyway, thanks Bigbore for the testing. I can trust my G21 all the way.

Poodle,how's your g21 going? I suppose i've seen you using your g21 during the Sept. 3 IDPA meet at armscor range. I just got mine, g19 for Prod in IPSC and for SSP for IDPA replacing my old PT92 (inaccurate, reliable though, sorry Taurus). Got interested in glocks these days after suffering from a never-ending trouble with my 1911s..plan to acquire g21/g30 for Ipsc std division and IDPA cdp. :)

boholglock
10-11-2006, 21:21
it's good to go in Standard as well as IDPA.

GlockmanPA
12-09-2006, 10:59
Best thread ever! Thanks BigBore for putting Glocks toughness to the test and illustrating your steps so perfectly! :thumbsup:

Moshe
12-12-2006, 21:52
Great test.

Thanks for the time, effort, and of course money that went into that test. :)

postpostban
12-15-2006, 18:35
Bought a 21 because of this thread. Thanks.

Tspeis
12-31-2006, 01:55
Though this is a little off topic, I wonder how certain long guns would handle tests like these. I'd be interested in seeing the HK 416 or the FN SCAR put through something like this. The 416 has a firing pin block so I'd really like to see if that could survive being dropped with a primed case off a roof or even 500 feet out of an airplane. Sweet thread and awesome videos!

guido2sc
01-20-2007, 05:58
Originally posted by westie10019
AND this proves what? There are a lot of Glock owners with to much time and money on there hands? So they take a pistol and abuse it far beyond what limit. Any person who has a firearm whose life may despend on it's use would never let the firearm get to this condition.

I humped a 16 for 91/2 months in the bush @ the Battle of Vietnam. My ass depended on this weapon working %100 of the time, it was kept clean and well maintained. So the point of abuseing this Glock is WAHT?

Grow up KIDS!

dude, lighten up... it proves that someone with a good heart had fun proving the limits of a seemingly infalible weapon. He dern near proved it. I shoot the 1911 and it's a wonderul weapon but it surely won't handle what BigBore put the Glock through. He was having fun and testing some theories out. He proved things to himself as well as others. That's all.

Easy on the caffine.....

guido2sc
01-20-2007, 05:59
by the way, bigbore, you're a genius.... incredible stuff man, simply incredible. I have never owned a Glock until now. I picked up a 19 because it is such a popular choice in 9mil and I am about to run some backflips over the purchase. Excellent stuff man, I'm glad I picked 'er up!!

hori
03-20-2007, 18:44
wow this was the best thread period. I was always a "I kinda like glocks" but wow this really got me itching to buy a G21 instead of a 1911. Bigbore thanks:thumbsup:

Tecumseh
04-21-2007, 04:09
This thread was linked to an AR15 forum. Yet again this thread continues to influence people to purchase Glocks.

WhatTheGlock
06-04-2007, 14:23
All I can say is...Incredible!! :thumbsup:
Glad I have a g21!

grfd600
06-29-2007, 20:46
WOW.

johnsonrlp
07-13-2007, 18:44
Originally posted by westie10019
AND this proves what? There are a lot of Glock owners with to much time and money on there hands? So they take a pistol and abuse it far beyond what limit. Any person who has a firearm whose life may despend on it's use would never let the firearm get to this condition.

I humped a 16 for 91/2 months in the bush @ the Battle of Vietnam. My ass depended on this weapon working %100 of the time, it was kept clean and well maintained. So the point of abuseing this Glock is WAHT?

Grow up KIDS!

Just a thought, but personally I would prefer to be training, recreating, or getting some sleep than cleaning a weapon. And, as some friends of mine who went driving around with PFC Lynch will tell you, sometimes you don't have time to field strip and clean a weapon. Sometimes you just need it to work.
Knowing whether or not it will is pretty nice.

Wvladimire
07-15-2007, 21:02
Being a long time shooter, I find your test to be very interesting. After reading about your test, burying the Glock 21 in various media sand, potting soil, powder, etc. etc. You simply just pulled the gun out, loaded a round, and then fired it. And you state that the only cleaning done was a simple dunk in water.

I am now a retired LEO, who was on a tactical team for 15 years, and am a person who would have some experience with firearms being dragged through mud and other like conditions you tried to simulate in your testing.
I find the results of your testing to be flawed if not exagerated. If you did what you say you did, I am surprised that the pistol did not blow up in your hand. Dropping it in the mud, burying it in everything you said, especially the paste from powder and water, and you are telling me that the barrel never was clogged and posed any kind of a threat to fire???? I highly doubt it.

JasonNC
08-19-2007, 18:28
Originally posted by Wvladimire



I find the results of your testing to be flawed if not exagerated. If you did what you say you did, I am surprised that the pistol did not blow up in your hand. Dropping it in the mud, burying it in everything you said, especially the paste from powder and water, and you are telling me that the barrel never was clogged and posed any kind of a threat to fire???? I highly doubt it.

With videos to accompany the text and pictures, I find your accusations unfounded and uncalled for.

Wvladimire
08-19-2007, 18:39
I realize I may be shattering a few people's dream of how indestructible their Glocks are but.

1) Pics and video can be edited to suit a person's need.

2) If the tester did what he says he did, buried the pistol in various media, and dropped it out of a plane and it buried itself up to the grip in mud, then how do you explain the barrel not being clogged up with the media he buried it in or mud?

ANSWER: You can't because it goes against the laws of physics. If try to do so then you show your ignorance, because you cannot argue the law of mathmatics or physics. My post is warranted and called for to those who have a brain and use it.

Wvladimire
08-19-2007, 18:44
Also in any firearm safety manual, it states,"that if you drop your firearm especially in mud, to check and make sure the barrel is not clogged because it poses a threat to the safety of the user and bystanders if fired."

I've been around firearms long enough to know that if you drop your hunting rifle in the mud, you strip it and clean it before you fire it. Unless you want it to blow up in your face????

Littleman
09-13-2007, 08:34
Originally posted by Wvladimire
I realize I may be shattering a few people's dream of how indestructible their Glocks are but.

1) Pics and video can be edited to suit a person's need.

2) If the tester did what he says he did, buried the pistol in various media, and dropped it out of a plane and it buried itself up to the grip in mud, then how do you explain the barrel not being clogged up with the media he buried it in or mud?

ANSWER: You can't because it goes against the laws of physics. If try to do so then you show your ignorance, because you cannot argue the law of mathmatics or physics. My post is warranted and called for to those who have a brain and use it.
ever seen mythbusters?

they tested the "mud in the barrel" myth. the gun fired fine.(and it was a long rifle) :upeyes:

Wvladimire
09-13-2007, 08:58
Yes I saw the Myth Busters episode, and just about everyone where they test firearms. Did you happen to see in the same episode where they made the barrel explode by blocking the bore????

It is a safety hazard. No questions about it. Also this tester dropped his Glock out of an airplane where it buried itself up to the grip in a muddy field. And you are telling me he just pulled it out of the mud and fired it???? Right, pull my other leg it plays jingle bells. Physics states that the bore and barrel would have been filled with mud. Chambering a round and firing it is not the safest thing to do. Unless you are in an extreme dire situation. I know I have hit a touchy subject here. But blocking the bore on a firearm is a safety hazard period. You run the risk of a backfire, with serious injury and or death.

This is not a myth. For those of you who want to argue it, then I suggest you take a firearms safety course. Every firearm manufacturer, the military, the police, and even hunting classes teach you this. They even used to show films back in the old days of what would happen when the bore of a firearm is clogged. I've seen it first hand at the range in training, after a belly crawl in the mud for 50 yards or so before you reach the line to fire. The gun does explode. End of discussion, end of arguement, period. This test is flawed. The results were done in such a way to make the Glock seem indestructible and able to fire no matter what. Even when the results go against the laws of physics and safety.

And if you are a true believer in this test, then I DO NOT WANT TO BE IN THE FIELD HUNTING OR NEXT TO YOU AT THE RANGE. You are an ovious buffon who has no regard for your own safety or that of others.

ScotB
09-27-2007, 20:48
Perhaps you should read the entire post before making an assumption. He states that he makes sure the barrel is clear of obstructions prior to firing the pistol when asked that very question by another member. Just a thought.

Wvladimire
09-28-2007, 06:30
Now we are picking apart words to reply to my post.

In answer to your question, yes I did read the entire post. However I will point out an inconsistancy with his answer and I quote, "the only cleaning that was performed was dunking it in a bucket of water." This would not clear the barrel of an obstruction. There are several more inconsistancies in his story, for those who are adapt enough to catch them.

Sorry folks but results are exagerrated.

ScotB
09-28-2007, 08:48
He stated he visually checked the barrel. Perhaps you were there and this allows you to question the results. Other than claiming there would have been a barrel obstruction which I feel was already addressed, you give no facts to support your conclusion.

On page 5 of this post Herbststurm asked about bore obstructions and I pasted it with bigbores answer below. If you just don't want to believe it I guess you can call him a liar and move on.

quote:Originally posted by Herbststurm(D)
Bigbore,
i wonder why the barrel didnt explode with all the dirt in it. I heard of incidents where even smaller objects in the barrel like cleaning wipes etc. where the cause for the barrel go bang, when the bullet did hit the object.
Did you plug the barrel with something (cellophane, wax etc.) before sticking it in the mud?



I always made a visual check that the bore was clear.

Wvladimire
09-28-2007, 09:29
No you are incorrect. The facts are the LAWS OF PHYSICS. You cannot go against the laws of physics, because the laws of physics govern the universe. If the tester dropped his Glock out of an airplane into a muddy field where it buried itself up to the grip in mud. Mind you the muzzle end landed first, meaning point down, then the barrel would have to be obstructed with mud. He claims he just pulled it out of the mud and fired it. No checking the bore. This goes against the laws of physics and gravity, because the barrel/bore would have filled with mud. Don't try to argue this because you think your Glock is indestructible. And if this is true and your glock does go against the laws of physics, which is totally impossible, then it would not fire. Due to the fact that everything in the universe has gone caput.

Simple fact of life, you cannot argue the laws of mathematics.

Proc
10-05-2007, 10:48
Originally posted by Wvladimire
No you are incorrect. The facts are the LAWS OF PHYSICS. You cannot go against the laws of physics, because the laws of physics govern the universe. If the tester dropped his Glock out of an airplane into a muddy field where it buried itself up to the grip in mud. Mind you the muzzle end landed first, meaning point down, then the barrel would have to be obstructed with mud. He claims he just pulled it out of the mud and fired it. No checking the bore. This goes against the laws of physics and gravity, because the barrel/bore would have filled with mud. Don't try to argue this because you think your Glock is indestructible. And if this is true and your glock does go against the laws of physics, which is totally impossible, then it would not fire. Due to the fact that everything in the universe has gone caput.

Simple fact of life, you cannot argue the laws of mathematics.

Sir that is where you are incorrect there are breaks within the system.. A bumble bee's weight far exceeds its wingspan there fore by the laws of physics and mathematics it can't fly. Though I relish watching my children stare as the bumble bees FLY past to light upon a flower. The video clip shows him shake the pistol and look down the barrel. As to the certainty of the tests no one can attest to the validity of them completely. It is left up to the reader to draw his own conclusion, but then i suppose that violates your sense of fair play and perhaps breaks some laws of physics. You can state the laws themselves in condition are irrefutable true but the probability of all things is in question. If you were not there how can you swear that the pistol landed muzzle first.

Texas357
10-05-2007, 13:13
Originally posted by Proc
... A bumble bee's weight far exceeds its wingspan there fore by the laws of physics and mathematics it can't fly.

What units are you using, to compare weight and length? Any conclusion that finds bees unable to fly must surely be based on some really awful assumptions. Perhaps you mean to compare ratios?
If so, you are trying to apply ratios derived from stiff-wing flight, to bumble-bees, who don't use stiff-wing flight? Either way, it would be laughable, except for the fact you take it seriously.

Though I relish watching my children stare as the bumble bees FLY past to light upon a flower. The video clip shows him shake the pistol and look down the barrel. As to the certainty of the tests no one can attest to the validity of them completely. It is left up to the reader to draw his own conclusion, but then i suppose that violates your sense of fair play and perhaps breaks some laws of physics. You can state the laws themselves in condition are irrefutable true but the probability of all things is in question. If you were not there how can you swear that the pistol landed muzzle first.

Wow, y'all are arguing about some petty BS. Nevermind. Ignore my intrusion. If you are going to equate Original Post grammar with Laws of Physics, this thread isn't worth saving.