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mikey177
12-12-2005, 21:07
Our old apartment was damaged by fire early last year. A few months after that, my dad passed away.

While sifting through my dad's old stuff, we came across boxes of assorted ammunition, most of which appear to have been damaged during the fire (case discoloration, corrosion). I've attached a photo below.

What is the safest legal way to dispose of the damaged rounds? Is it possible to just bring them to the nearest FED regional office and surrender them there?

darwin25
12-12-2005, 21:14
is that KTW? The one with the light green teflon? Yap, better bring them to FED. Maybe some bad cop will get creative and shoot them. Para matauhan;f Kiding aside, It's a good idea to surrender them to FED for proper disposal.

Buti na lang hindi nagignite nung magkasunog. I had the same concern nung magkasunog sa kapitbahay namin. The first thing I did after I was sure I had all my family members safe was to take away all the guns and ammunition out of the house. Other family members took care of all the other important documents and stuffs. I had about 350 rounds of 9mm, 200 rounds of .380, more than 50 .38, about 200 .22lr and 200 rounds of 5.56mm back then. You can imagine how many could have been injured had the fire reached our house and I hadn't been able to take all the guns and ammo out of the house

isuzu
12-12-2005, 21:30
If an ammo has been subjected to heat, and would have ignited the primer, it is the case that will fly out and not necessarily the bullet head. The case is much lighter than the bullet head. But still, safety is the foremost concern.

darwin25
12-12-2005, 21:47
Originally posted by isuzu
If an ammo has been subjected to heat, and would have ignited the primer, it is the case that will fly out and not necessarily the bullet head. The case is much lighter than the bullet head. But still, safety is the foremost concern.

I disagree. Both the case and the bullet heads will be subjected to pressure. Pressure does not go one way only. If bullet case pressure can blow up a gun, it will certainly be more than enough to launch a bullet, as it always does. A bullet is a projectile, remember? Besides, a semi-auto pistol slide or an automatic rifle bolt is much much heavier than a bullet, yet it is the pressure that cycles the slide / bolt into action.

mikey177
12-12-2005, 22:47
Thanks, guys. I'll just call our regional FED office to coordinate its disposal.

Darwin,

What is KTW? The case is stamped S&W 38 spl, so maybe it's just a teflon reload. I dunno.

darwin25
12-12-2005, 23:00
Originally posted by mikey177
What is KTW? The case is stamped S&W 38 spl, so maybe it's just a teflon reload. I dunno.

Pards, it's a brand of armor piercing bullets. The brand thats responsible for the bad rep of teflon coated bullets as armor piercing though its not true. The teflon coat serves as protection for the barrel since the steel core bullet can ruin the barrels rifling.

batangueno
12-12-2005, 23:49
Originally posted by darwin25
I disagree. Both the case and the bullet heads will be subjected to pressure. Pressure does not go one way only. If bullet case pressure can blow up a gun, it will certainly be more than enough to launch a bullet, as it always does. A bullet is a projectile, remember? Besides, a semi-auto pistol slide or an automatic rifle bolt is much much heavier than a bullet, yet it is the pressure that cycles the slide / bolt into action.
Just think about it. A cartridge laid on a table on its side and then the primer ignites, which would you think will go further the bullet or the case?

The bullet acts as a projectile because something is holding the case. Hold the bullet and the case will become a projectile.

darwin25
12-13-2005, 00:20
Originally posted by batangueno
Just think about it. A cartridge laid on a table on its side and then the primer ignites, which would you think will go further the bullet or the case?

The bullet acts as a projectile because something is holding the case. Hold the bullet and the case will become a projectile.

I think that if a cartridge is laid on the table on its side, both the case and bullet will become dangerous projectiles. Although a cartidge when fired in a gun launches a bullet, the pressure on the case also reacts back which causes the slides of automatic guns to cycle. No doubt that the case would go farther but theres also no doubt that both case and projectile can cause severe injuries in such a case.

batangueno
12-13-2005, 00:31
Originally posted by darwin25
I think that if a cartridge is laid on the table on its side, both the case and bullet will become dangerous projectiles. Although a cartidge when fired in a gun launches a bullet, the pressure on the case also reacts back which causes the slides of automatic guns to cycle. No doubt that the case would go farther but theres also no doubt that both case and projectile can cause severe injuries in such a case.
Come to think of it, for some rifle cartridges, the bullet may be heavier than the case. :)

batangueno
12-13-2005, 00:34
Anybody knows at what temperature will a cartridge go BOOM?

An ammo box does get hot after leaving it inside the car during matches. Hopefully, not enough to ignite the primer or the powder inside.;P

darwin25
12-13-2005, 00:51
Originally posted by batangueno
Anybody knows at what temperature will a cartridge go BOOM?

An ammo box does get hot after leaving it inside the car during matches. Hopefully, not enough to ignite the primer or the powder inside.;P

I actually am thinking of a modification to a car so I can take a sawed off shotgun with me and have it accessible in a second. The temperature inside a car parked under direct sunlight is giving me pause though. Mainly for the reason you said.:)

toxic
12-13-2005, 02:40
Ive read it somewhere that the autoignition temperature of gun powder is about 770 deg F which is 400 deg Centigrade but in some MSDS it says there to avoid storage at above 150 deg F = around 66 deg Centigrade.. this is for the ordinary pyrotechniques powder.

If im not mistaken autoignition temp for smokeless powder/propellant the granular type is more then 400 deg F = 240-250 deg Centigrade.

Considering that Brass is a cold metal are you ready for this "it will also ignite at a much lower temp of 250 deg F = 120-125 deg centigrade"

SOURCE:MSDS

Bullets can only ignite if the primer is Activated however
ill go with 66 deg centigrade rule ,just to be safe and i agree with everyone if the bullet ignites the shell can also cause damage.

Allegra
12-13-2005, 06:12
Originally posted by darwin25
I think that if a cartridge is laid on the table on its side, both the case and bullet will become dangerous projectiles. Although a cartidge when fired in a gun launches a bullet, the pressure on the case also reacts back which causes the slides of automatic guns to cycle. No doubt that the case would go farther but theres also no doubt that both case and projectile can cause severe injuries in such a case.


When a bullet goes bang without support of a barrel chamber para syang granada
The case willl disintegrate sending brass shrpnel all around, while the bullet will make talsik but I doubt it will have enough velocity to damge anything

Allegra
12-13-2005, 06:15
Originally posted by batangueno
Anybody knows at what temperature will a cartridge go BOOM?

An ammo box does get hot after leaving it inside the car during matches. Hopefully, not enough to ignite the primer or the powder inside.;P


Let's send it to mythbusters!! :)

atmarcella
12-13-2005, 10:19
hmmmm looks okay....parang pwede pa iputok yan ah, .38 special yon ano? tsk tsk where do you live mikey;f ....just kidding;f

Django
12-13-2005, 17:26
Hahaha. Instead of calling FED, send ATM a PM. He will assist you in disposing the ammo legally (transfer of ownership) at no charge at all.:)

paltiq
12-13-2005, 18:21
saan location mo pare? ako bahala dispose nyan safely... wag kana ma-mroblema

paltik
09163501677:)

jasonub
12-13-2005, 19:36
simple physics lang yan. If a cartridge is ignited outside a chamber it will explode outwards in all directions. the one supported in this case the bullet head which will be the heaviest and strongest part of the cartridge will also move since there is a force subjected to it.

The weak area, namely the brass after the area where the bullet ends will usually be the part that will give. unless you have semi loose primer pocket.

the area will explode outwards and upwards since there is again a support on the bottom. the ground or table or whatever. assuming that the bullet is lying on its side.

If the bullet is standing up. the support will be the bullet base which is supported by the ground, table floor whatever. then now there is more force applied on the bullet head. but still the weak area which is the case after the bullet base should give out first, unless the crimp is very loose. If the crimp is very loose......

too many factors, i can give you drawings and show you the forces invoved;f

better just give it to the fed or bomb squad and let them take care of it.

But if your held by the russian pretzel hold, remember dont bite the balls in front of your face;f

toxic
12-13-2005, 22:40
hanap ka na lang ng may bullet puller tapos ibaon sa lupa , then let mother nature take its course.;K

New_comer
12-14-2005, 00:09
Originally posted by Allegra
When a bullet goes bang without support of a barrel chamber para syang granada
The case willl disintegrate sending brass shrpnel all around, while the bullet will make talsik but I doubt it will have enough velocity to damge anything +1, though I doubt it will be that dramatic

Not sufficient impulse to be imparted by the burning gasses to push both case and bullet to a significant speed, given that the crimp will give way almost immediately. If the parts were soldered, then maybe the results could be as destructive as described

Hula ko lang, parang tunog "supôt" na pla-pla ;f

mc_oliver
12-14-2005, 01:22
Originally posted by Allegra
When a bullet goes bang without support of a barrel chamber para syang granada
The case willl disintegrate sending brass shrpnel all around, while the bullet will make talsik but I doubt it will have enough velocity to damge anything
Yep, ganyan nangyari nung nagka ejector fire ako. Punit yung shell although the head, I pressumed, still passed thorugh the bore. Although, it didn't sound like a grenade, though, more like a pop. Mas malakas pa yung utot ko sa umaga actually. ;f

mikey177
12-14-2005, 02:52
Originally posted by paltiq
saan location mo pare? ako bahala dispose nyan safely... wag kana ma-mroblema...

Too bad. I should've just brought the ammo during the last BoG anniv.

I'm located in Pangasinan so unless you're willing to make a road trip up north, then I'll just make arrangements with our local FED office... although the bullet puller idea sounds interesting. Is there any danger of the gunpowder igniting if I attempt to disassemble the rounds?

darwin25
12-14-2005, 03:06
Originally posted by mikey177
Too bad. I should've just brought the ammo during the last BoG anniv.

I'm located in Pangasinan so unless you're willing to make a road trip up north, then I'll just make arrangements with our local FED office... although the bullet puller idea sounds interesting. Is there any danger of the gunpowder igniting if I attempt to disassemble the rounds?

Not a good idea pards. The integrity of the ammo has already been compromised. If I were you guys I would not do anytrhing with it except to dispose it the safest way I can. Its not worth it.

Allegra
12-14-2005, 04:49
Originally posted by New_comer
+1, though I doubt it will be that dramatic

Not sufficient impulse to be imparted by the burning gasses to push both case and bullet to a significant speed, given that the crimp will give way almost immediately. If the parts were soldered, then maybe the results could be as destructive as described

Hula ko lang, parang tunog "supôt" na pla-pla ;f


Pag pinotok mo ang 40cal sa 45 barrel , parang sufot nga :)
Pero pag sa nasusunog na bahay, pumuputok ng malakas
And when a friend fired from a defective barrel (totally walang suport yung likod ng bala) lakas din ng putok and we had to pick brass from his face