The Future of Harley; and now let us pray. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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hitecrednek
12-13-2005, 16:01
so I'm wondering what HD will look like 10 or 20 years in the future......

the current bikes are great, but....

at least around here, there is no shortage of used Harleys, so maybe the prices in the used market will start to go down, which will hurt the sale of new bikes.

jap bikes are taking a big market share.

the MoCo isn't known for innovation; even the technology of the V-rod is stuck in the '70s.

so we have the same big bikes, the same (although much improved) Sportster and a Vrod, that isn't a cruiser and isn't a sportbike. Maybe the MoCo needs to create a few new bikes in the sportbike/adventure/dirt catagories??? I would love to have a sportbike ( and not the strange buell) made by HD, or something to compete with the BMW GS bikes....

your predictions?

fnfalman
12-13-2005, 17:05
I think that H-D will do just fine, if not better. Why? There are plenty of people that want old school Harleys. That's a fact. Regardless of the reasons why they want to own one, they want to own one. And the V-Rod and Street Rod are drawing in power cruiser owners from other brands who always wanted a decently fast American cruiser.

mdvctry
12-13-2005, 17:09
What will H-D look like in the future? Probably a lot like the Victorys and BMWs. MC buyers today aren't the lemmings that they once were, who would buy anything with H-D on it.... Well not the majority of new buyers. THat's why Victorys, metrics and European bike (especially Triumph and Ducati) are so popuar again. You can't change a H-D rider, but times they are a changing and so will the look and feel of bikes.

stinx
12-14-2005, 07:53
I think with all this talk of new EPA regulations coming for New bikes, the value of any used bike, especially Harley's will go up. Some of the new regulations are pretty scary.

Bigbadben
12-14-2005, 08:49
"maybe the prices in the used market will start to go down"



Already happening. Remember when used Harleys cost as much or higher than the list on new ones? last May I bought a 2000 two-tone Electraglide Classic with 10,000 miles and a couple of grand of upgrades for $14,500.

I feel for the guys who bought new Harleys a few years ago thinking that they could at least get back what they paid for them. Now that the MC has stepped up production to meet demand prices of used bikes are plummeting. Just look at what's on Ebay (which is where I bought the EG).

Ben
2000 Electraglide
1934 VLD

Markcuda
12-14-2005, 08:55
I'm sure Harley will make small changes over the next few years, like they do every year.
Look for the Electra Glides going to water cooled motors, probably the Ultra being first :)
Harley will be fine. That is what my little cristle ball says;)

Stop CPR
12-14-2005, 21:54
It never ceases to astound me to all the Harley Davidson bashing that goes on in this forum. If you donít like HD then ride your German, Italian or Jap bike and wave as you drive by. In November 2005 the USA trade deficit exceeded 69 billion dollars. The United States is importing 69 billon dollars more than it exports. Which side of this very dangerous balance do you contribute to?

mitchshrader
12-14-2005, 22:23
have a polymer frame and burn alcohol, or MAYBE propane. it'll likely still be a V-Twin.

Three-Five-Seven
12-15-2005, 07:21
Well, duh.... the company has made its mark by NOT changing. That's probably the way it will continue. My Road King tests at One Thousandth the allowable limit for O2, SO2, and NO at the emmisions testing station. You might see some vapor recovery mechanism before long, but the motors (in stock livery) burn very clean, thank you.

Harley does not cultivate brand loyalty. They don't have to. There are more people that want a Harley than can afford one. People who really ride motorcycles -- you know, motorcyclists -- are always looking for a better mousetrap. Seems like most of them end up on Hondas in the end.

If you are around Harley for any length of time you become alienated by their business practices, the way they treat little people, and their arrogant dealer network. Most folks end up disillusioned about the company and the scoot.

In the end, their greed and crappy dealer network will be their downfall. Ironic, now that their bikes are good quality and dependable. In my opinion, H-D made a big mistake trying to grow their top line into the new millenium. They should have focused on galvanizing their market, strenthening their dealerships, and maximizing their capital investments from the '90s. The Motor Company should be working toward being a lean, mean, customer satisfaction machine. Sadly, the ethic of H-D brass is greed. In the end, that ethic will not work.

hitecrednek
12-15-2005, 18:11
Which side of this very dangerous balance do you contribute to? asks CPR-


My 883 got rear ended in August, traded my R1100s in for another 883. And It lives in the garage with an FXST. Blew my life savings on HD. No regrets.


However, I was raised right; my uncle was a WWII vet who steered me away from rice burners. But what about the next generation? As the WWII influence fades away, and the global economy blurs national pride ( like Hondas made in the USA killing GM deader than a whores heart), will bikers in the future keep the faith or will they look for the best bike???

thats why I'd like to see HD come out with some more diverse offerings like ,say, a sport-touring bike with a 90 degree L twin, oil cooled with enough fairing to make long 80 mph drones on the highway comfortable. Put the same motor in a crotch rocket. And make a dirt bike that would rule BAJA.

anyhow, thanks for the great opinions.

hitecrednek
12-15-2005, 18:12
and.....

Compy
12-15-2005, 18:22
When HD makes a bike that has an inline 4, a seating position that allows me to command the bike and a lean angle of over 10į, I'll buy one.

This is coming from a former Night Train owner.

HD doesn't make anything I want. Even if I were looking for a cruiser, Victory makes a better product as do most the imports. While Victory has yet to really affect HDs bottom line, I think in the next 10 years we'll start to see them change their tune quite a bit if Victory continues their current growth. I know 2 people so far that have switched and a third that REALLY wanted a Harley, but started to look closely and ordered a Victory. They have some compeition again and they can't let their arogance fool them into thinking that this is just another temporary Indian uprisal again.

I see a lot of HD owners tout "American pride", yet they have $5k worth of bolt-on chrome and other crap made in China.

fnfalman
12-15-2005, 19:11
Originally posted by hitecrednek
Which side of this very dangerous balance do you contribute to? asks CPR-


My 883 got rear ended in August, traded my R1100s in for another 883. And It lives in the garage with an FXST. Blew my life savings on HD. No regrets.


However, I was raised right; my uncle was a WWII vet who steered me away from rice burners. But what about the next generation? As the WWII influence fades away, and the global economy blurs national pride ( like Hondas made in the USA killing GM deader than a whores heart), will bikers in the future keep the faith or will they look for the best bike???

thats why I'd like to see HD come out with some more diverse offerings like ,say, a sport-touring bike with a 90 degree L twin, oil cooled with enough fairing to make long 80 mph drones on the highway comfortable. Put the same motor in a crotch rocket. And make a dirt bike that would rule BAJA.

anyhow, thanks for the great opinions.

OK, I'm a bit confused. You were raised right and your WWII vet uncle steered you away from Jap products but you had no problems with owning Kraut products? Unless the R1100S you were talking about isn't a BMW, then I apologize.

hitecrednek
12-15-2005, 19:53
yeah, I had a BMW.....lost my mind for a while there.



;5

fnfalman
12-16-2005, 08:36
I think that by marketing correctly, H-D had earned itself a niche in the motorcycling world. Let's be honest here, if the people were to want the best bikes that money can buy, H-D, BMW, Ducati and a host of other bikes won't be it. Everybody would be buying rice burners. They make the best bikes. Period. Not the best bikes for money. Best bikes. Period. Be they crotch rockets, dirt bikes or cruisers.

Whether or not H-D's customer base will expand greatly, I don't know. But if they keep up with reasonable quality and reliability, then they won't have to ever worry about going bankrupt again.

Markcuda
12-16-2005, 08:51
I don't know. But if they keep up with reasonable quality and reliability, then they won't have to ever worry about going bankrupt again.
My 03 Ultra went 167,205 miles and the crank bearing went out, I think that shows that the air cooled Harley Vtwin is pretty reliable.
I hope to get the bike back today or Saturday:cool:

Bigbadben
12-16-2005, 10:01
Well, I guess I agree that the Jap bikes have it all over everything else in all objective categories. But let's be honest. If we approached motorcycling objectively none of us would go near one of the things. Motorcycling is, at its heart, a useless and stupid thing to do.

So those of us who live for it do so for subjective, emotional reasons. I've been thinking about this because I got bit by the Harley bug a few years ago. Prior to that I had ridden Hondas and a BMW. Now there were tidbits of mastery in both of those designs. I had a BMW K100RS that had a wonderfully designed fairing. It was small and unobtrusive. Yet it managed air so well that you could ride through a rainstorm at 60mph almost without getting wet. It created this air pocket that flowed right around you on all sides. That was really cool.

But the BMW didn't seem to have any soul. And this is what I can't quite figure out. I love my new ElectraGlide Classic in a way that I've never loved a motorcycle before. But it clearly is outdated engineering. The wind management on it is awful. Your head is right in the buffet zone. No matter what windshield you put on it you seem to get rained on not only from the front, but from both sides as well. Its fuel mileage is marginal at best, etc., etc. But I wouldn't trade it for the world. Somehow its shortcomings become appealing character, whereas if a Honda had similar shortcomings it would be up for sale the next day.

I mention this not to make a point, but rather to express confusion on my part. I don't know where this love for Harleys with all their idiosyncrasies comes from. But it's there. And it's somehow impossible to justify, let alone explain. I think there's a gene some researcher is going to find called the Harley gene. If you have it then nothing but a Harley works for you. If you don't then you look at people who spend $20,000 on outdated equipment that rattles and snorts as if they're retarded.

Weird.

Ben

Texas T
12-16-2005, 10:03
Originally posted by Stop CPR
If you donít like HD then ride your German, Italian or Jap bike and wave as you drive by. We do wave, but all we get in return is a one-finger salute. `l

JK ;)

fnfalman
12-16-2005, 13:53
Originally posted by Bigbadben
had a BMW K100RS that had a wonderfully designed fairing. It was small and unobtrusive. Yet it managed air so well that you could ride through a rainstorm at 60mph almost without getting wet. It created this air pocket that flowed right around you on all sides. That was really cool.

But the BMW didn't seem to have any soul.

There's the problem right there. You should have gone with the flat twin instead of the I-4 sewing machine.

As for me, it's the other way around, I love the flat twin engine and the various quirky designs that distinguish BMW from everything else. And by quirks I don't mean reliability the way Ducatis are defined as character.;)

NMGlocker
12-16-2005, 16:49
Originally posted by Stop CPR
In November 2005 the USA trade deficit exceeded 69 billion dollars. The United States is importing 69 billon dollars more than it exports. Which side of this very dangerous balance do you contribute to?
What brand forks and rear shock are on that H-D (Kayaba, Showa)?
What electronics are on that H-D (NipponDenso)?
What brand tires are on that H-D (Michelin)?
What brand carbs are on that H-D (Keihin, Mikuni)?
If you look very close you'll realize that more than likely all those parts (and many, many more) were manufactured in Japan or Europe.
Trying to justify owning a H-D by wrapping youself in the American flag is ignorant.
;?
Harley makes a good cruiser, especially for the retro crowd.
Stricter emissions standards will force them into fuel injected, water cooled motors with more restrictive exhausts. In the future I see Harley sticking to retro designs with more "modern" motors.
There will always be a market for those.

Markcuda
12-16-2005, 17:09
What brand tires are on that H-D (Michelin)?
No, Dunlop.
NMGlocker, you sound like a very jealous person
:cool:

NMGlocker
12-16-2005, 17:25
Not at all.
Just pointing out that the "buying American" argument isn't really valid with H-D (or Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc.).
Did you miss the part of my post where I said H-D makes a good cruiser for the retro crowd?
You seem to be a little defensive........ why is that?

Markcuda
12-16-2005, 17:46
__________________


95% of all Harley Davidsons ever made are still on the road. (The other 5% made it home).
"Harley Davidson, yesterdays technology at tomorrows prices."
You see, this what your signature says, you have to be jealous of Harley about something, or are you just being a nice peep and pointing that out for all of us?
Dude, get a clue, ride what you want, if you think what you ride is the best, well, then so be it, who am I to say other wise ;Q
I don't give a rats ass where your bike is made, you should not care where mine is made:cool:
If only you could see how much I laugh at you when you post;i ;i ;i ;i ;i ;i

NMGlocker
12-16-2005, 17:59
If I made you laugh then it's all good.
I like poking sharp sticks at the people who take themselves WAY too seriously (hence my sig lines).
I don't care where your bike is made, you don't care where mine is made. But the poster two or three posts up wants to wrap himself in ignorant patriotism (and I wanted to point it out).
....
You and I agree H-D's will be watercooled in the future!!
;n

Stricter emissions standards will force them into fuel injected, water cooled motors with more restrictive exhausts.

Three-Five-Seven
12-17-2005, 07:35
Poor NM, still hasn't gotten out for that ride. He get's grumpy when he doesn't ride.

NMGlocker
12-17-2005, 10:09
Originally posted by Three-Five-Seven
Poor NM, still hasn't gotten out for that ride. He get's grumpy when he doesn't ride.
Actually, I rode for about an hour yesterday after work.
And I'll get a few hours in this afternoon.
^c
I'll be riding while you guys sit in the garage and polish your........... chrome.
;f

RugerFan58
12-17-2005, 15:30
Originally posted by Markcuda
My 03 Ultra went 167,205 miles and the crank bearing went out, I think that shows that the air cooled Harley Vtwin is pretty reliable.
I hope to get the bike back today or Saturday:cool: It's not uncommon at my workplace to see 25 to 30 Harley's in the parking lot in the summer. One of my co-workers rides his bike to work even if it's snowing out....he's a REAL biker IMHO. Of all my friends and co-workers that own Harley's I've never known even one of them to approach your kind of mileage. Most of them have major engine problems way before that. Sounds like you got one of the good ones. 167,205 is very respectful.;Y

steeltoe
12-21-2005, 17:11
I wonder how long before HD gets into the chopper market. I wouldn't dream of paying for a BigDawg but a HD chopper might get my attention. I think it's hilarious all these $30k "custom" choppers look the same except for paint. The new Bobber is leaning towards my taste from HD.

fnfalman
12-21-2005, 17:45
Originally posted by steeltoe
I think it's hilarious all these $30k "custom" choppers look the same except for paint. The new Bobber is leaning towards my taste from HD.

It's because the "custom mechanics" get the parts from the same sources and pretty much bolt them on. It's like an M1911, everybody and their brothers get parts from Ed Brown, from Wilson, from McCormick and you assemble them. Custom ;Q

A true custom job is like what's offered by the boys from Zero Engineering in Vegas. They fab a lot of pieces themselves, or salvage a lot of pieces and handfit them.

Bigbadben
12-22-2005, 07:26
I'm toying with the idea of building an old 40s style bobber and seeing if I can sell it. (Probably can't afford a knuckle, but there were a ton of old 45 flathead bobbers and you can pretty much find those engines anywhere.) I like to tinker on bikes, so I've been doing a few restorations as a side gig to my data networking business. I'd love to find something like that where I could build a few of them each year and sell them. I wouldn't actually have to make much money off of them. As long as it pays for itself it would be fine. (Data networking makes the money. As long as building bikes pays for the tools and expenses it's like having a hobby you can do for free.)

What do you think? Is there a market out there for older style choppers and bobbers?

Ben

fnfalman
12-23-2005, 09:36
I think that there's a market for old school choppers and bobbers. I'm more of a bobber guy as well. I think that people start to get sick of the flash and pizzazz of stretched out frames and garish paint jobs.

I don't think that the big money lawyer-types are going to get one because they'd go to Ness or the OCC or West Coast Chopper so that they can ride the name. But I think that a few enthusiasts will go for it.

Bigbadben
12-23-2005, 13:24
Yeah, all I really need is one or two guys a year willing to pay $15,000 for a post-war vintage 45 street bike. I can do reproductions of Lee Marvin's bike from the Wild One. That would be fun.

And it would justify the $700 lift that I'm probably going to get. Resolved myself to the point that if I'm going to work on bikes I need to get a good table-style lift. Just having a hard time plunking down that $700 for something I can't shoot or ride.

Ben

White Buffalo
12-24-2005, 13:32
Originally posted by Bigbadben
I'm toying with the idea of building an old 40s style bobber and seeing if I can sell it. (Probably can't afford a knuckle, but there were a ton of old 45 flathead bobbers and you can pretty much find those engines anywhere.) I like to tinker on bikes, so I've been doing a few restorations as a side gig to my data networking business. I'd love to find something like that where I could build a few of them each year and sell them. I wouldn't actually have to make much money off of them. As long as it pays for itself it would be fine. (Data networking makes the money. As long as building bikes pays for the tools and expenses it's like having a hobby you can do for free.)

What do you think? Is there a market out there for older style choppers and bobbers?

Ben [yes]

Just build it up. While I would never, ever suggest buying a chopper or a bobber (unless it was built up in someones garage, it's neither honestly. TO be a chopper or a bobber, it would have to start life as a stock bike and be cut up to be a real chopper.. all the other so-called choppers out there are nothing more than nice looking production bikes.. not choppers.) check out suckerpunchsally.com. They have some slick looking motorcycles.

In my club, we have about 6 different bike projects going on right now. Everything from harley chops to full on korean customs (revtech powerplants) to japanese bobbers (which is what I'm doing to my old xs650 as we speak). Really not hard to do and most can be done at a fraction of the cost you'd expect.

THis is just one of my club brothers scoots, happens to be the only one that I have a good picture of actually. It's a 1964 Ironhead sportster. It's a quick scoot and handles really well. He's had it, I guess about 8 years or so? Anyways, just an example of what you can do and how cool you can do it.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/eddygein/182afcf4.jpg

Circle Burner
01-05-2006, 08:08
The future for Harley-D is hard to figure out. HD is already having major issues and is dealing with several lawsuits that could play a large part in determining the future. In my opinion HD needs to start offering more for the money besides the name. HD has gotten hammered by the other cruiser options on the market because they are providing a better product with very competive pricing. If you compare the Honda or Victory cruisers with HD the conclusion is always the same in terms of value and performance, HD is the loser.

I like the HD looks, but I'm not going to buy one just to join the club and ride to the HD sponsored food events.

Cryptoboy
01-06-2006, 12:37
Originally posted by Circle Burner
The future for Harley-D is hard to figure out. HD is already having major issues and is dealing with several lawsuits that could play a large part in determining the future. In my opinion HD needs to start offering more for the money besides the name. HD has gotten hammered by the other cruiser options on the market because they are providing a better product with very competive pricing. If you compare the Honda or Victory cruisers with HD the conclusion is always the same in terms of value and performance, HD is the loser.

I like the HD looks, but I'm not going to buy one just to join the club and ride to the HD sponsored food events.

You lost me on several things in your posting...

1. HD has been in several lawsuits for years! So has Glock, S&W, Bushmaster, etc., yet nobody is worried about them....
2. How have they gotten hammered? Harley still produces about the same number of bikes/year as Honda does! That's 400k Harleys, to about 500k Honda's (which include sportbikes, cruisers, Goldwings, standard style bikes, not sure about dirtbikes, but not quads or watercraft). They didn't generate as much profit as the previous years, but still made a nice chunk of change. They've been earning record profits for well over 15 years now.
3. Define better product. The metrics typically offer a CHEAPER product (at least when you look at base prices), but the quality differences are minor. Yes, performance is typically better on a metric (when you compare stock-to-stock), but if you're looking for high end performance, the cruiser market isn't for you anyways. I've ridden a Victory Vegas and Yamaha V-Star, and the handling wasn't very impressive. I felt like I could handle the corners better on my Lowrider. Overall finish and reliability are more important to me than arm stretching speeds. In that Harley is better (as far as finish) and on par if not better in terms of reliability. (Note to that, once you start modifying your bike, metric or HD, you can typically kiss reliability goodbye! I've seen it personally on both ends.)

Now, that being said, yes Harley will probably have to make some modifications due to more restrictive EPA, and competition to some level. They've made changes before, and they'll most likely do it again (either that or us Harley owners will have some nice pieces of equipment to sell at Barrett-Jackson! ;e )

I know there are people out there that buy a Harley because they want to join the bandwagon, but most of the riders I know (and I live in Arizona, there area ALOT of riders here!) pick Harleys because they like them better. They could give a ***** what other people ride, unless the guy or girl decides to give some lip about how good their ride is. We've had BMW's, Kawi sportbikes and a few Honda's go out with us on bike nights, and aside from some good natured ribbing on both sides, appreciate each ride out there.

There's nothing wrong with riding something else, but if you have to justify what you ride (saying your bike is like a Harley, only better for example) then you probably picked the wrong bike. If you truly enjoy your ride, then more power to you! :)

DaisyCutter
01-06-2006, 14:23
The primary issue that would keep me from riding a Harley, is the fear that I'd be wrongly associated with the no-helmet wearing mouth-breathers and posers that define the Harley image. The ones so desperate for acceptance and coolness, they are willing to risk severe injury or death unnecessarily.

From my perspective (also AZ) the Harley rider is the least common of all to wear a helmet/gear, and the most common of all to possess sub-par riding abilities.

I think the best use of Harleys would be to round them all up, pack them into the cargo area of C-130's, and then carpet bomb Afghanistan with them.

To find a superior product, one only has to look as far as the motorcycles the German Army fielded in WW2. ^5













~okie~ ~<peep~>

Markcuda
01-06-2006, 14:36
DaisyCutter, your dumber than dog *****.

Circle Burner
01-06-2006, 15:19
Cryptoboy

Hold the phone, when has Glock or Bushmaster had several class action lawsuits being filed against them, and two of its officers alleging securities violations and false and misleading accounting practices like the ones that caused the stock of Harley-Davidson to be inflated. Also, HD's output is more like 300,000 units, see how it works they had you believing there output was 400,000 units. On the other hand, Honda's 2005 motorcycle sales volume was more than 600,000 units, up 20% on last year, despite the growing competition. Honda is planning on selling 770,000 in 2006.

So it can be said that Honda is about doubling HD unit sales.

What do the Honda/metric cruisers offer over HD, wow where can I start. Basically a much superior product at a very competive price. Just the increased maintenance intervals alone are amazing. You are about the only person I have ever heard try to compare HD reliability with the metric cruisers, I mean are you for real? Honda has always been reliable, even when HD was going through the AMF years.

HD is a better choice if you like riding the 20 miles to the weekly HD b b cue, plus you get to see the HD honeys.....

DaisyCutter
01-06-2006, 16:02
Originally posted by Markcuda
DaisyCutter, your dumber than dog *****.

Which equates to approximately three echelons above a typical Harley rider... Four if they ride a chopper. ;)

NMGlocker
01-06-2006, 17:08
Originally posted by DaisyCutter
Which equates to approximately three echelons above a typical Harley rider... Four if they ride a chopper. ;)
Now that was funny....... I don't care who you are...... that was funny.
;f

Bigbadben
01-06-2006, 20:44
Anybody have a sense what % of Harley gross sales actually comes from the bikes themselves? It seems like a lot of the speculation in this thread has been about Harley losing bike sales to Honda, Yamaha, etc. But walk into any Harley shop and you'll see racks upon racks of Harley branded crap. It begs the question of how important to the overall bottom line the bikes are, or if there almost a lost leader of sorts. Make the bikes to create the culture to that people will buy the T-shirts that you can make a killer markup on. I'd be willing to bet that the bikes themselves may be as little as 25% of the overall revenue for the company. I'd be curious to see the figures.

As long as those t-shirts keep selling I would guess that Harley is doing just fine.

Ben

DaisyCutter
01-06-2006, 20:51
Ben is on to something there.

Markcuda
01-06-2006, 21:14
All of you peeps that seem to want to worry about Harley, should not.
Harley is and will continue to do very well, thank you.
I will buy 5 more new Harleys, I hope before I die, so you little worry boys just stay on your littel porch and let the big dogs run:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Circle Burner
01-06-2006, 23:10
Originally posted by Markcuda
All of you peeps that seem to want to worry about Harley, should not.
Harley is and will continue to do very well, thank you.
I will buy 5 more new Harleys, I hope before I die, so you little worry boys just stay on your littel porch and let the big dogs run:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Well you got the Harley is a dog part right....the rest was just bla bla bla.

Compy
01-07-2006, 00:08
Originally posted by Bigbadben
Anybody have a sense what % of Harley gross sales actually comes from the bikes themselves? It seems like a lot of the speculation in this thread has been about Harley losing bike sales to Honda, Yamaha, etc. But walk into any Harley shop and you'll see racks upon racks of Harley branded crap. It begs the question of how important to the overall bottom line the bikes are, or if there almost a lost leader of sorts. Make the bikes to create the culture to that people will buy the T-shirts that you can make a killer markup on. I'd be willing to bet that the bikes themselves may be as little as 25% of the overall revenue for the company. I'd be curious to see the figures.

As long as those t-shirts keep selling I would guess that Harley is doing just fine.

Ben

Actually I think they make most their money off replacement parts. ;f

BikerRN
01-07-2006, 00:51
Actually Harley makes most of it's money off of T-shirts. :)

Cryptoboy
01-07-2006, 01:51
Originally posted by Circle Burner
Cryptoboy

Hold the phone, when has Glock or Bushmaster had several class action lawsuits being filed against them, and two of its officers alleging securities violations and false and misleading accounting practices like the ones that caused the stock of Harley-Davidson to be inflated. Also, HD's output is more like 300,000 units, see how it works they had you believing there output was 400,000 units. On the other hand, Honda's 2005 motorcycle sales volume was more than 600,000 units, up 20% on last year, despite the growing competition. Honda is planning on selling 770,000 in 2006.

What do the Honda/metric cruisers offer over HD, wow where can I start. Basically a much superior product at a very competive price. Just the increased maintenance intervals alone are amazing. You are about the only person I have ever heard try to compare HD reliability with the metric cruisers, I mean are you for real? Honda has always been reliable, even when HD was going through the AMF years.

HD is a better choice if you like riding the 20 miles to the weekly HD b b cue, plus you get to see the HD honeys.....

HD's units were 329k last year. Honda was around the 600k. But, how many of those are actual cruisers? I didn't find the stats for 05, but previous years the majority of the units were dirtbikes and quads. The cruisers are the smaller end of the production line.

Again, you think it's a superior product, why? Performance I'll grant you. Fit and finish? Harley wins that hands down! Maintenence? Here is a suggested service schedule I found on a Honda site: (local dealer site, Hero Honda or something like that. Couldn't find it on the main site.)

First service
500-750 km
Second service
2500-2800 km
Third service
5000-5500 km
Fourth service
7000-7500 km
Fifth service
9000-9500 km
Sixth service
11000-11500 km

Harley's are 1000, 2500, 5000, 10000, 15000 MILES. You can do every 2500 miles (and it is suggested of course by the dealerships, they want more money!), but they aren't required. Harley takes the cake on that one. I did a 1000 mile, 2500, and will do a 5000. After that it's every 5000 miles for my bike.

I never said Honda's weren't reliable, and I agree, the HD's of the past were about the least reliable machines out there! That changed though, with the Evo motor, and especially with the Twin Cam 88. So try to keep in the right decade, ok? It's 2006, not 1975! Honda hasn't dropped in reliability, but HD has stepped up to the plate to match them, if not exceed them. Even the warranty is better now; Honda offers a 1 year, unlimited miles, Harley offers a 2 year, unlimited. Again, Harley makes out better.

With the exception of the Goldwing, Harley is the better choice for long term riding. They handle well, will run forever, and are very comfortable. I like the Goldwing, I just can never figure out how to get that danged espresso maker to run while I'm riding! ;f

TMK
01-08-2006, 06:13
HD better smart up real soon or they will be going the way of Indian and the other USA brands. I rode a 1973 FXE back before riding a Harley was "fashionable"...I also rode a 1982 Suzuki GS1100E...the GS is still in my garage, the Harley is long gone.

This year I bought a new cruiser after 2.5 years of searching and saving...a 2005 Yamaha Road Star Silverado! The bike rides better, looks nicer and costs $8000 less than a Heritage Softtail. Broke my heart to buy the RS but I am one fella who is not a fool to be parted with his money. I ride my motorcycles, I do not invest in them...thus, any perceived equity retention in the HD is paper goobledeegook to me...with part of the savings, I bought my wife a 2003 VStar 650 Classic because she loved the RS so much...

I rented a 2006 Heritage Softtail in FLA this past week...after 6000 miles in the RS saddle this year...I am convinced I bought the better bike...nothing at all wrong with the Softtail and I am not going to bash HD as a machine...but the company thinks its ***** don't stink and that is the beginning of the disaster if you ask me! Their stock is off 15% (was off 20%) from one year ago and the P/E is 15.9 which shows waning confidence in the company...the premium is too high to pay for the HD name and many of my former HD riding buddies are turning to Victories and metric cruisers...

I am all for saving the US economy but $8000 is a ridiculously high sum to pay to do so!

Regards, Ted

fnfalman
01-09-2006, 12:35
H-D bikes command the prices they're asking for and more because people are willing to buy at those prices. Supply & demand economic at its finest. It doesn't matter if the non-HD people don't think that the bikes are worth it. They're worth it to a whole lot of people.

Just look at the Italian bikes. They are also overpriced, but people buy them. Motorcycles are not utility vehicles like trucks and cars. People buy them for the emotional investment as well.

Though I know that H-D has the scandal with their stocks and such, they got the business part down right. They make money off the bikes they sell and they make money off the accessories, and yes, make lots of money off trinkets and apparels. Hey, they're not in the business to lose.

And believe it or not, a lot of those HD riding gears are high quality stuff. I don't know about the assless chaps though...;f

I said it before and I will say it again, H-D got a damn good niche that they fill and they fill it well.

I think that a lot of time other bikers dislike H-D motorcycles due to their dislikes of the attitudes of the RUBs more than the bikes themselves.

Anyway, everybody always thinks that their bikes are better than others, so who's right? I can nitpick any bike from any manufacturer. Ride what you ride and spend your money where you wanna spend it.

Cryptoboy
01-09-2006, 15:40
Originally posted by fnfalman
And believe it or not, a lot of those HD riding gears are high quality stuff. I don't know about the assless chaps though...;f

;z That just made me think of a scene in the movie Dodgeball, where they getting ready for their first dodgeball match! I actually ended up getting a Harley riding jacket, mainly because I got it on sale (was a style they were stopping, so got a nice discount on it). It's comparable to my friends Vanson Leathers jacket in durability and fit, and even without the discount about $100 cheaper! I have a Gericke textile (armored) jacket for warmer riding weather.

Originally posted by fnfalman
I think that a lot of time other bikers dislike H-D motorcycles due to their dislikes of the attitudes of the RUBs more than the bikes themselves.

That's a very good point, and they are disliked by Harley riders who actually ride, as opposed to sit at Starbucks with their $30k bikes out front. The guys I ride with with, we easily put in a 100+ miles just on a bike night. Mostly Harley riders but not all. One of the guys has a Kawi ZX-6 that rides with us! (Admittingly most of us catch up to him eventually on the freeway, but it's all fun!)

Originally posted by fnfalman Anyway, everybody always thinks that their bikes are better than others, so who's right? I can nitpick any bike from any manufacturer. Ride what you ride and spend your money where you wanna spend it. [/B]

Probably the best said thing about bikes I've heard in quite some time! :)

DaveGT
01-09-2006, 18:00
Originally posted by fnfalman
H-D bikes command the prices they're asking for and more because people are willing to buy at those prices. Supply & demand economic at its finest. It doesn't matter if the non-HD people don't think that the bikes are worth it. They're worth it to a whole lot of people.

Just look at the Italian bikes. They are also overpriced, but people buy them. Motorcycles are not utility vehicles like trucks and cars. People buy them for the emotional investment as well.

Though I know that H-D has the scandal with their stocks and such, they got the business part down right. They make money off the bikes they sell and they make money off the accessories, and yes, make lots of money off trinkets and apparels. Hey, they're not in the business to lose.

And believe it or not, a lot of those HD riding gears are high quality stuff. I don't know about the assless chaps though...;f

I said it before and I will say it again, H-D got a damn good niche that they fill and they fill it well.

I think that a lot of time other bikers dislike H-D motorcycles due to their dislikes of the attitudes of the RUBs more than the bikes themselves.

Anyway, everybody always thinks that their bikes are better than others, so who's right? I can nitpick any bike from any manufacturer. Ride what you ride and spend your money where you wanna spend it.

Very good assessment.... and so true !

A lot of us old time Harley Riders dislike
the RUB types just as much some of y'all seem to.

Fear762
01-19-2006, 19:44
Originally posted by hitecrednek
so I'm wondering what HD will look like 10 or 20 years in the future......


Exactly the same as they do now. The one exception is maybe carburators might not be a option.

BikerRN
01-23-2006, 11:49
I found my 2003 FXD to be very reliable, and beat the crap out of my 1976 FLH.

However, as was previously posted, part of what turned me off on Harley was the attitude of RUBs and "so-called" bikers. No thanks, I'll stick to my Italian mistress now. It does everything my Harleys would do plus more, and it's more fun to ride.

:)

Cryptoboy
01-23-2006, 13:36
Originally posted by BikerRN
I found my 2003 FXD to be very reliable, and beat the crap out of my 1976 FLH.

However, as was previously posted, part of what turned me off on Harley was the attitude of RUBs and "so-called" bikers. No thanks, I'll stick to my Italian mistress now. It does everything my Harleys would do plus more, and it's more fun to ride.

:)

Thta's true. One nice thing about them though is that they aren't on the road much (those are the bikes you see for sale, 3 years old, with less than 2000 miles on them!), and they tend to lose interest. Good way to get a deal though down the line.

BikerRN
01-23-2006, 15:12
I know what you mean. I was doing 1,000 miles a month on my FXD and I met a guy that was so friggin' proud that he got 1,800 miles on his 3 year old Wide Glide. :(

Markcuda
01-23-2006, 17:41
I met a guy that was so friggin' proud that he got 1,800 miles on his 3 year old Wide Glide.
He's a pus*y biker=Metrosexual;f

BikerRN
01-24-2006, 05:30
I met a guy this weekend that has a Road King and an FJR.

He does a lot of miles, has ridden the Dragon and various other "scenic byways". He hates the Road King, his words. He says that the FJR is a much better bike and suits his style better. It was funny, because he lives in Ohio, in the middle of Harley Country.

He said he plans on selling his RK soon. I have no problems with the new Harley reliability. My beef is in the inflated price you pay to go in a straight line. If you want to go straight Harleys are fine. If you want to go through the curves with a modicum of sportiness Harleys bite the big one.

I always planned on getting either a RK or a Geezerglide to tour. But I'm now leaning towards either a BMW or a Ducati. Take care and ride safe. :)

Markcuda
01-24-2006, 07:58
My beef is in the inflated price you pay to go in a straight line. If you want to go straight Harleys are fine. If you want to go through the curves with a modicum of sportiness Harleys bite the big one.

Well now, I'v put 169,000 miles on my 2003 Ultra Classic, in less than 3 years and I don't just go in a straight line:cool:
I'v been to the Dragon a number of times, I'v been in all the lower 48 states with my Ultra, don't you think I have encountered some curves in all them miles? :cool: I think so;Z

BikerRN
01-24-2006, 08:48
Mark,

With those miles you have encountered some curves. For what they are, Harleys aren't bad, just no longer my "cup of tea".

I love riding, hate posers and recognise that while we all have different likes/dislikes there are many brands of bikes to suit all different styles of riding. To me it about riding, not what you ride.

Ride safe and keep the rubber side down. :)

Markcuda
01-24-2006, 08:51
I just hope no one calls me a "Poser";) ;f

Cryptoboy
01-24-2006, 10:12
Originally posted by Markcuda
I just hope no one calls me a "Poser";) ;f

I don't know, I think anyone who rides more than 150k miles in 3 years would qualify as a poser! ;z

BikerRN, each person has their own riding style and preference of ride. Definately nothing wrong with that! :)

quinch
02-03-2006, 00:51
Well now, I'v put 169,000 miles on my 2003 Ultra Classic, in less than 3 years
Let's round it off to 3 years.


56333.3 miles per year.

4694.4 per month.

156.4 per day.




How do you find time to post?

~1

Markcuda
02-03-2006, 07:52
Let's round it off to 3 years.

Yes, the Ultra was 3 years old February the first:)
I love my bike, I love to ride, let me clarify, I am addicted to riding my Ultra:cool:
I make time to ride, it is one of my priorities in life:cool:
Now the Ultra has 170,650 miles;f

Fear762
02-03-2006, 20:19
Originally posted by Markcuda
Yes, the Ultra was 3 years old February the first:)
I love my bike, I love to ride, let me clarify, I am addicted to riding my Ultra:cool:
I make time to ride, it is one of my priorities in life:cool:
Now the Ultra has 170,650 miles;f


WoW.. How can you manage so many miles living in illinois.;G

Markcuda
02-03-2006, 21:06
How can you manage so many miles living in illinois.
So far, the winters in central Illinois are pritty mild:cool: :cool:
I love globle warming;f

quinch
02-03-2006, 22:27
Sure............................;Q