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Ersatz0906
12-15-2005, 06:32
sir

I'm planning to buy shotgun, what do you recommend? my budget will be 30k

Twin pines is selling thier mossberg 88 for 28,000 but because they have no 88 model pistolize, so they sell mossberg 500 for the price of the 88. is it a good offer?

whats the deffirence between 88 and the 500?

thanks

vega
12-15-2005, 09:19
88 is actually a Maverick which is cheaper than Mossberg 500. The difference I believe is the placement of safety button. The Mossy is on the tang while the Maverick is on the trigger guard. You can't go wrong on both but the 88 should sell lower. Being in the Philippines, you can't argue with the store about the price. Have you considered buying Armscor shotties? I just had a bad experience with Armscor rep here in US that's way I was swayed with my decision and bought a Mossy 500 instead.

Darn, with that price I could buy 2 Mossbergs, with extra barrels pa.

Goodluck with your choice.

vega

Ersatz0906
12-15-2005, 17:09
Thank you sir vega, how much did you get for the mossy 500? about the armscore shotgun no I didnt ask about it. but there is a new shotgun imported in phil. I forgot the name but its also cheap cost only for 16,000php made in turkey.

I emailed mossberg and ask them the difference,
The difference between the 500A and the Maverick 88 is the receiver and the trigger mechanism. The 500 has the safety on top of the receiver and the maverick 88 has a safety cross bolt located in the trigger housing (like sir vega said). The rest of the parts are interchangeable like the stock, Forearm, barrels and other parts. But the salelaady said the steel used on 500 is more durable than the 88 but I doubt that.

here I only saw 2 model for the 500 the persuader cost 28,000 which has wood stock and forearm, and the other model 500 has a synthetic stock and forearm cost 35,000.

but forgot to ask twinpines which one will they give me the wood or the synthetic for the price of the 88, if the wood then there will be no good offer because basically they are in the same price level.

vega
12-15-2005, 17:44
Maverick and Mossbergs are manufactured by Mossberg. They use the same barrels. The saleslady doesn't know anything about it so she'll say whatever comes to mind. Take a closer look at the barrel of the Maverick, I think it will say Mossberg, I said I think. Ask the saleslady kung anong alloy ang receiver, pustahan tayo sasabihin bakal. It's made of alluminum.

My 500 was $229.99 + $25 DROS + $16.17 tax = $271.16 = PHP14,913.80 and it came with 18.5" and 26" barrels.

Turkey shotguns are also good but I'd rather get Armscor. BTW, you can't put longer barrel on the Persuader. I think it comes with 18.5 lenght barrel. The wood and synthetic stocks have the same price here. It's just an option.

GO ARMSCOR!

vega

isuzu
12-15-2005, 18:38
Maverick 88s cost around $180.00 plus tax. I don't know why Twin Pines is putting such a high price on their Mavericks.

cznayr
12-15-2005, 19:12
I think it was ante who is selling his shotgun. Try to PM him.

darwin25
12-15-2005, 19:51
Make mine a LUPARA.;f

A pump gun would surely be in my arsenal. But whichever first comes my way after the holiday spending, I'll grab it.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/ANDYGARCIA.jpg

vega
12-15-2005, 19:53
I don't think you'll have any luck with a Lupara in PI, err I mean RP.;)

vega

darwin25
12-15-2005, 20:00
Originally posted by vega
I don't think you'll have any luck with a Lupara in PI, err I mean RP.;)

vega

Pards I already asked deenoh about this possibility. He said he would be willing to help. He said he'll see what he can do. But I will have to wait for their next ordering of guns:cool: Mas maganda siguro kung may iba pang interesado.;f ;f

By the way would Perlas ng Silangan be a politically correct term?:)

Ersatz0906
12-16-2005, 00:02
Love the Lupara hehe :) how much will that cost me?

RP securities most if not all use armscore pistolize shotgun right?
how is it? comments, possible or common problem?

darwin25
12-16-2005, 00:35
Originally posted by Ersatz0906
Love the Lupara hehe :) how much will that cost me?


Norinco has a side-by-side shotgun. I just have no idea how much it will cost.
http://www.norincosports.cn/detail_product_English.jsp?productid=27&cssid=1

http://www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/index-sg-coach.shtm

theTactician
12-16-2005, 00:50
friends of mine in the philippines bought the "Hadsan" shotguns, tama ba spelling?
anyway, it was cheaper than the usual mossbergs, HK Fabarms, benelli, can be bought for only 17k last gunshow. Im not sure regarding its performance though.
Hadsan shotguns are semi-autos..
me, i'd prefer to buy an HK Fabarms or a pump action benelli.

PMMA97
12-16-2005, 01:01
Originally posted by darwin25
Make mine a LUPARA.;f

A pump gun would surely be in my arsenal. But whichever first comes my way after the holiday spending, I'll grab it.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/ANDYGARCIA.jpg

Sir Darwin, Is this the same shotgun that's going to be in your vehicle?

Ersatz0906
12-16-2005, 01:22
Originally posted by theTactician
friends of mine in the philippines bought the "Hadsan" shotguns, tama ba spelling?
anyway, it was cheaper than the usual mossbergs, HK Fabarms, benelli, can be bought for only 17k last gunshow. Im not sure regarding its performance though.
Hadsan shotguns are semi-autos..
me, i'd prefer to buy an HK Fabarms or a pump action benelli.

ya thats the one "hadsan" (I think). its made in turky. its cheap but dont know if its reliable.

cznayr
12-16-2005, 01:42
I think it's HATSAN :)

darwin25
12-16-2005, 01:52
Originally posted by PMMA97
Sir Darwin, Is this the same shotgun that's going to be in your vehicle?

Hi sir,

either this one http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/so3.jpg

or this one. But this one's more likely for the home

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/no1small.jpg

;f

Django
12-16-2005, 02:49
Originally posted by Ersatz0906
ya thats the one "hadsan" (I think). its made in turky. its cheap but dont know if its reliable.

Hatsan. Made in Turkey and available at Hahn and PB. Very reasonably priced but "new kid on the block" and no track record yet in the Phil.

IIRC, there was a two gun shoot last summer and the house gun on loan to the shooters for the shotgun event was a Hatsan, both in the semi-auto and pump action. Some minor hiccups during the competition but nothing serious. Performance was ho-hum and nothing to write home about.

New_comer
12-16-2005, 02:55
Remington 870 is top dog in the shotgun arena. Built to last. Mine (Police wingmaster) I inherited from my dad is over thirty years old, still chewed out the two boxes of Armscor 00 buck like peanuts when I test fired it several months ago. Smooth as silk and fantastic trigger. Steel receiver with that very handsome oakwood stock. Original is 4+1, but I was able to buy a mag tube extender from PBD to make it 6+1.

Saw one last gunshow at Magnificent World for 28,000 wood stock. Sometimes PBD carries them, parkerized version.

Turkish shotguns from Sarsilmaz, Karatay, Hatsan only have aluminum receivers, hence the cheap price. Pang harabas ba, but I doubt if they'd retain significant resale value once you decide to get rid of them.

Mav 88's I've read are made in Mexico and have only the most basic parts to allow it to function, hence the cheap price. The 500/590 series are the better ones.

If you want cheap, I believe Norinco has a clone of the 870. Interchangeable pa yata ang parts. Check it out

Ferdz
12-16-2005, 04:38
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ersatz0906
[B]sir

I'm planning to buy shotgun, what do you recommend? my budget will be 30k


Have you tried visiting P.B.Dionsio's Year End Bang Sale? They are the distributors of Turkish made Akkar shotguns and also market Turkish made Hatsan shotguns of Hahn-Manila. Price range of these Turk pump-actions are P10+th to P14+th, semi-autos cost P17+th going up.

cebuboy
12-16-2005, 04:50
Originally posted by Ersatz0906
sir

I'm planning to buy shotgun, what do you recommend? my budget will be 30k


it depends on what the shotgun is for:)

for basic home defense, the karatay by akkar will do. its a turkish version of the rem 870 pump gun. its cheap, with parts available at pb. or if you like all steel gun you can go armscor:) the benelli nova is also a nice gun, if your comfartable with the stock length. think of it as a glock shotgun. made mostly of polymer, hence less maintenance. if you can, try handling the guns first to get the feel. better yet, if you can ask friends who are into shtoguns to let you pop off a few rounds:)

Allegra
12-16-2005, 05:59
Originally posted by darwin25
Hi sir,

either this one http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/so3.jpg

or this one. But this one's more likely for the home

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a18/darwin25/no1small.jpg

;f



hehe yan ginamit ni mad max for vehicle defense

theTactician
12-16-2005, 08:02
what about armscor shotguns? any comments?

antediluvianist
12-16-2005, 08:58
Go here (website below) to learn more than you really want to know about shotguns (hit the links: the types of shotshells available is a whole universe of data and tactics in itself). I have plenty of other shotgun links if you want them, just reply in this thread - others may also want to have the shotgun websites.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/index.php

I bought Paltog's Mossberg Maverick 88 earlier this year. It was almost brand new, hardly fired. And I haven't fired it much as I don't have much time. A BOG wants to buy it in January and he has the first crack at it.

The posters on the "shotgunworld" site above say the difference between the Maverick and the Mossie 500/590 is the placement of the safety - on the crossbolt in the Maverick, on the tang in the 500/590. Some people like one style, others the other. Mossberg barrels fit on both.

My Maverick has a synthetic stock and that is easier on the shoulder than wood.

I have held the Turkish Hatsan - feels very light (aluminum and plastic). I'm sure it works OK but as they said above no track record ; probably OK if you don't shoot it much.

Anyway what do YOU want the shotgun for? If for home defense, probably any shotgun will do. It's the shotshell that does the work, the shotgun is basically a tube. At home defense distances even birdshot can be lethal to an intruder. 00 buckshot is macho but overkill indoors ; #4 shot is around where reason lies. Look at the tables for shot sizes.

Django
12-16-2005, 09:26
Originally posted by New_comer

If you want cheap, I believe Norinco has a clone of the 870. Interchangeable pa yata ang parts. Check it out

Top of the heap in it's league actually. Low price, all steel, robust construction with a no nonsense finish and profile. Would replace the pistol grip if I have one though.

Ersatz0906
12-16-2005, 22:57
My purpose is for home defense only. my dad has a standard shotgun Dont know the brand but Im sure its US made, 40 to 50 yrs old I think and I havnt seen it for almost 8yrs. kasi nandoon sa katulong namin sa Farm, I dont know if he take care of it.

Can I restore it? will it be cost effective to restore it? and be still reliable? or should buy new cheap one?

Django
12-16-2005, 23:23
What is it's current condition? Can it still be restored? Shotguns, especially those manufactured in the '50's and '60's had the reputation for standing up to a lot of abuse. Check out its conditin first before buying a new one.

toxic
12-16-2005, 23:27
Originally posted by Ersatz0906
Thank you sir vega, how much did you get for the mossy 500? about the armscore shotgun no I didnt ask about it. but there is a new shotgun imported in phil. I forgot the name but its also cheap cost only for 16,000php made in turkey.

HATSAN yun siguro Sir, Available sa PB and sa Magnificent World.

Ersatz0906
12-17-2005, 00:07
Originally posted by Django
What is it's current condition? Can it still be restored? Shotguns, especially those manufactured in the '50's and '60's had the reputation for standing up to a lot of abuse. Check out its conditin first before buying a new one.

I'm not sure what year the gun was made, and not sure the condtion of it, but tomorrow I'll be going to the farm I'll take some pics and will post it here for all you guys to examine :)

antediluvianist
12-17-2005, 04:55
Originally posted by Ersatz0906
I'm not sure what year the gun was made, and not sure the condtion of it, but tomorrow I'll be going to the farm I'll take some pics and will post it here for all you guys to examine :)

Not really possible to get definitive conclusions from a picture. If it's a pump, it may badly need lubrication in the action, 0r rust removal in there. The barrel may be plugged. If it's a simple side-by-side, well even then, I suggest you have a gunsmith look at it before you stick a shotshell in and fire it - the hinges and locking mechanism may be loose/not properly fit anymore. Shotshells are powerful; don't fire one off before you have the shotgun checked by a gunsmith.

Ersatz0906
12-17-2005, 06:24
Originally posted by antediluvianist
don't fire one off before you have the shotgun checked by a gunsmith.

Thanks for the warning, But I think they still use the shotgun because last month when my mother was there the care taker ask for some shells. I'll ask him if he still use it.

antediluvianist
12-17-2005, 07:05
Ah, well if it is in fact being used then apparently the barrel is not plugged and the action is at least somewhat lubricated (it's a pump?).

Below is another good reference website for shotguns.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2c.shotguns.htm

antediluvianist
12-17-2005, 23:18
Erstaz, I will not bore you with further postings, but just this one : as I said earlier, #4 (BUCK) is considered good enough for home defense, without blowing holes through walls ; and even smaller pellets ( BB and smaller) will do if the likely range to the intruder is short (how far is your bed from the bedroom door?).


Shot Size Table*

LEAD SHOT


Shot number | diameter (inches) | diameter (mm) | approx no. of
| | | pellets in 1 oz.
_______________|_____________________|________________|_________________
| | |
000 BUCK | .36 | 9.14 | 6.2
| | |
00 BUCK | .33 | 8.38 | 8
| | |
0 BUCK | .32 | 8.13 | 9
| | |
1 BUCK | .30 | 7.62 | 11
| | |
2 BUCK | .27 | 6.86 | 15
| | |
3 BUCK | .25 | 6.35 | 19
| | |
4 BUCK | .24 | 6.10 | 21
| | |
BB | .18 | 4.57 | 50
| | |
2 | .148 | 3.76 | 90
| | |
4 | .129 | 3.28 | 135
| | |
5 | .120 | 3.05 | 170
| | |
6 | .109 | 2.77 | 225
| | |
7.5 | .094 | 2.39 | 350
| | |
8 | .089 | 2.26 | 410
| | |
8.5 | .085 | 2.16 | 470
| | |
9 | .079 | 2.01 | 585
| | |
12 | .05 | 1.3 | 2300

toxic
12-17-2005, 23:55
Originally posted by antediluvianist
Ah, well if it is in fact being used then apparently the barrel is not plugged and the action is at least somewhat lubricated (it's a pump?).

Below is another good reference website for shotguns.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2c.shotguns.htm

Cool site Sir Ante^c

Ersatz0906
12-18-2005, 03:12
Originally posted by antediluvianist
Ah, well if it is in fact being used then apparently the barrel is not plugged and the action is at least somewhat lubricated (it's a pump?).

yes sir its a pump. our caretaker said he shot it last 2 weeks ago and he told me its still functioning ok, I didnt get any pics coz I forget my Digi. right now he need it more than I do. I'll stick to my Glock and my other handguns for now :)

thanks for the link sir :)

isuzu
12-18-2005, 12:19
The USMC use #4 buck as their primary ammo on their Mossbergs. They also use rifled slugs and other ammo for special applications.

kamelot
12-19-2005, 03:02
AT last! I've been "lurking" here for quite some time now until somebody posted about shotguns. Nahihiya akong mag-join kasi puro pistol ang usapan.I have transferred from pistol to the shotgun sports for several years now. It took me a few days before my account was activated and I was on moderation queue.

Ersatz,
I agree with new_comer that one of the better guns is the Remington (870P ). pump to be exact. It's been tested in the field (Vietnam) and I have used it on several occasions. The recoil of the Remmy is manageable although it's a bit heavy for me (I use a Benelli M1Super90 - mas magaan).

For your purpose - if it's a gun for the home, for hunting, or for competition - as somebody has written earlier - anything would do as long as it's functional and you know how to use it (you have practiced with it).

I know of a hunter who uses a Browning over-and-under who can shoot 2 rds at snipes, eject the empties, reload another 2, then shoot another two for a total of 4 snipes down. warning though, the literature advises against the use of modern ammo through SG with Damascus barrels to avoid injury to life and limb.

As for your budget - I don't know how much this baby costs now - I suggest you wait till the Gun Show in january so you can get better deals.

The Armscor Pump is relatively cheap, parts are cheap, and you can do all sorts of "souping-up". A Filipino with an Armscor pump won 2nd Place in the recently held International Shotgun match held in Bali. Hope this helps.:)

antediluvianist
12-19-2005, 03:23
oooh, you have a Benelli semiauto. Super90. How nice. 3.15 kilograms.

I'm the guy who said basically any functioning shotgun will do for home defense.

Enjoy your gun. I presume you will be able to wipe out an entire mob if they barge into your house. But you probably are a hunter.

The Benelli Super90

"Thanks to its ingenious simplicity and ease of maintenance, the Super 90 can be considered to be the father of all of the current semiautomatic shotguns made by Benelli. It is ideal for both hunting and sporting uses, as well as being hardwearing, solid and totally reliable. The superior quality finishes and details include waterproof, non-slip checkering and a gilded trigger. The sleek and ergonomic design gives this shotgun a balanced and comfortable firing position.

Technical and functional characteristics
Mechanics Inertial semi-automatic Benelli with variable geometry trigger release unit
Gauge 12
Type of wood finish Fine checkered stock and fore-end, selected walnut with matt finish
Stock length 360 mm
Drop at comb 38,5 mm
Drop at heel 55 mm adjustable to 50, 60 and, optional, 64 mm with drop adjustment kit
Recoil pad Urtal stiff
Receiver finish Black anodised receiver with satin finish
Magazine capacity For Italian market the shotguns are available with special 3-rounds plug or 2-rounds plug on request. For the foreign market the shotguns are available with 5-rounds capacity, on request 3 or 2 rounds plug
Safety Transversal safety complete with a red signal to advise that they are ready to fire
Weight 3150 g (approx.)"

kamelot
12-19-2005, 03:38
Thanks for the Benelli write-up antedeluvianist. I've had my days with hunting. Much as I like hunting, now my spirit is willing (to hunt) but my flesh is weak. Hindi ko na kayang matagal sa init ng pamarilan. Presently, my built and my heart is now in IPSC shotgun sports. I use the M1 Super 90 almost weekly in the firing range and join competitions (shotgun) as much as possible. My shotgun is out of the box and all I changed is the bolt handle (bigger one) for competition.:)

3kings
12-19-2005, 05:57
when it comes to shotgun, kamelot is the man!
see you bro at spd. hope i remember all what u taught us. firewalker, roadster and myself will be there. i will be my first shotgun competition and im really really very excited!

3kings
12-19-2005, 06:09
share ko lang mga shotgun adiktus pix

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/a3kings/shotgunJUNE16050.jpg
kamelot on the move

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/a3kings/shotgunJUNE16040.jpg
starting position.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/a3kings/shotgunJUNE16041.jpg
firewalker with his hatsan semi-auto

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/a3kings/shotgunJUNE16034.jpg
3kings with his bentley pump

mikey177
12-20-2005, 01:43
3kings,

Is that bag on your right side an ammo pouch? If so, is it easier to use than an ammo belt like the one firewalker is using?

I'm trying to think of the most effective way to carry ammo in case I have to move around with my shotgun in a home defense scenario.

antediluvianist
12-20-2005, 02:45
There are "sidesaddles" - plastic shotshell-holders that fasten to the butt of the shotgun - which can hold up 6 or so extra shotshells readily available right there on the butt. I have a sidesaddle on my shotgun. That's 5 or 6 shotshells inside the shotgun plus 5 or 6 more in the sidesaddle. That's a lot already for a home defense scenario. If you have to fire that many shotgun shells in and around your house, your house and possibly your neighbor's house will be messed up, not to mention possible "collateral damage". Unless there are half a dozen intruders, but that's rare.

"Spray and pray" is not a good idea in home defense. One or two hits on the intruder will be quite enough, and since it's a shoulder-aimed weapon with long sighting radius, plus some scattering of shot at the target, a shotgun gives you a better chance of hitting than a handgun.

Firing in outdoor scenarios/competition would be different and could use a lot more rounds.

3kings
12-20-2005, 06:22
Originally posted by mikey177
3kings,

Is that bag on your right side an ammo pouch? If so, is it easier to use than an ammo belt like the one firewalker is using?

I'm trying to think of the most effective way to carry ammo in case I have to move around with my shotgun in a home defense scenario.

mikey,

its not really an ammo pouch its a pouch that my son owns to put his gameboy sp. well as long as it serves the purpose.

mikey177
12-21-2005, 01:48
Thanks for the side saddle suggestion, ante. However, I've got small children in the house so I'd prefer to keep the ammo in a separate, locked, yet easily accessible (for me) place away from the shotgun. That's why I was toying with the idea of an ammo pouch (or a gameboy holder) :) so that I could slip it on easily as I grab my shotty. Maybe a beltbag would be more appropriate.

Since I live in a rural area, I envision having to use it outdoors under some circumstances.

kamelot
12-21-2005, 05:48
Originally posted by mikey177

Since I live in a rural area, I envision having to use it outdoors under some circumstances.

mikey,
suggest you familiarize yourself with your SG specially if you mean to use it for home defense purposes. If you wake up in the middle of the night to strange noises or God forbid,must cross the edge, your adrenalin is low, your vision is not sharp at that particular moment, the environment is dark, and your adversary has his adrenalin way off the ceiling. In such circumstance you might be functioning by muscle memory. This would not be the best time to fumble for the safety switches and to think whether you are in condition one or not.

Best is for you to have a dog as an alarm and your shotgun by your side. hope this helps.:)

mitchshrader
12-21-2005, 06:01
copy of the Ithaca 37.

it is very inexpensive.

you may be able to order it.

it is not my first choice, but it is my choice for best value.


here is an ad: (example only, i do not sell them or know who does)

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976451659.htm

but I have studied the prices here (USA) and am satisfied that for a new shotgun HERE, this is good value.

mikey177
12-21-2005, 06:51
Thanks for the home --or in my case, farm-- defense tips, kamelot.

We've got one terrier and we're going to get another puppy by next week. Our perimeter is completely fenced with barbed wire on top. We've got sufficient lighting throughout the property (fluorescent lamp posts plus motion activated flood lights), and the doors, jambs and windows of the main house are all hardened. But you are right, I should get more trigger time with the shotgun, since most of the time my first instinct is to reach for the Glock during SHTF situations.

Eye Cutter
12-21-2005, 17:04
Originally posted by kamelot
AT last! I've been "lurking" here for quite some time now until somebody posted about shotguns. Nahihiya akong mag-join kasi puro pistol ang usapan.I have transferred from pistol to the shotgun sports for several years now. It took me a few days before my account was activated and I was on moderation queue.

Ersatz,
I agree with new_comer that one of the better guns is the Remington (870P ). pump to be exact. It's been tested in the field (Vietnam) and I have used it on several occasions. The recoil of the Remmy is manageable although it's a bit heavy for me (I use a Benelli M1Super90 - mas magaan).

For your purpose - if it's a gun for the home, for hunting, or for competition - as somebody has written earlier - anything would do as long as it's functional and you know how to use it (you have practiced with it).

I know of a hunter who uses a Browning over-and-under who can shoot 2 rds at snipes, eject the empties, reload another 2, then shoot another two for a total of 4 snipes down. warning though, the literature advises against the use of modern ammo through SG with Damascus barrels to avoid injury to life and limb.

As for your budget - I don't know how much this baby costs now - I suggest you wait till the Gun Show in january so you can get better deals.

The Armscor Pump is relatively cheap, parts are cheap, and you can do all sorts of "souping-up". A Filipino with an Armscor pump won 2nd Place in the recently held International Shotgun match held in Bali. Hope this helps.:)


Hi Kamelot/ Doc Lino! Welcome to BoGs! I was wondering when you'd find GT and BoG in particular! Enjoy your stay! Hehehe

Eye Cutter

kamelot
12-21-2005, 21:59
Hi EC!

I was looking for you at our last Eye convention. Hindi tayo nag-abot. There was even a night out for all UERM alumni(irregardless of where you trained) at Mario's kitchen. The Sunday after (Dec 3) was a PCS night at Shangrila for all UERM grads irregardless of specialty and residency training.
Might see you at the shoots though or at the GunShow.
Are you joining the SPD Shoot this Dec 27?

Nahiya akong sumali initially - I was just reading posts - kasi nobody was talking about shotguns. Alam mo naman lumipat na tayo diyan. Hindi naman ako kasimbilis ninyo tumakbo, yumuko, at tumagilid.:) Regards.

3kings
12-22-2005, 02:15
Originally posted by kamelot


Nahiya akong sumali initially - I was just reading posts - kasi nobody was talking about shotguns. Alam mo naman lumipat na tayo diyan. Hindi naman ako kasimbilis ninyo tumakbo, yumuko, at tumagilid.:) Regards.

kamelot,
parehas lang tayo but i guess having fun is the most important thing here. kaya kung may competition ng tiradoran or sumpitan sasali rin ako;)

cebuboy
12-22-2005, 04:46
Originally posted by kamelot
Nahiya akong sumali initially - I was just reading posts - kasi nobody was talking about shotguns. Alam mo naman lumipat na tayo diyan. Hindi naman ako kasimbilis ninyo tumakbo, yumuko, at tumagilid.:) Regards.


hi kamelot, there are people here who like shotguns:) this place is very informative and is nice for exchanging ideas.

kamelot
12-22-2005, 07:19
Cebuboy et al,

thank you for welcoming me to the forum. I'm sure I will enjoy it here and hopefully I can share what little I know about shotgunning.:)

Eye Cutter
12-22-2005, 11:29
Doc: I wasn't able to attend much of the last PAO convention. I only attended Monday and Tuesday afternoon bec. my dad was admitted at Capitol. Anyway, mas magkikita na tayo now that you're a BoG!

Mukhang maraming sasali sa SPD Cup next Tuesday! hahaha! I'll see everybody there! All-steel daw cof?

Eye Cutter
12-22-2005, 11:33
PS: si kamelot pala was/is my bossing when i was still at UERM med school! hehehe!

:cool:

Django
12-22-2005, 17:36
;F Welcome Kamelot!

Do not worry. Most people here (me included since I have two of those monstrous and awesome implements) have ambivalent love affairs with the shotgun. You'll not be out of place.:)

kamelot
12-22-2005, 20:39
Thank you, too Django!
When a friend of mine told me once, "When you start with shotguns, there is no turning back.", I took his word with a grain of salt. I was then deep into pistol shooting (with my own share of trophies and medals then (nagyayabang na). But when I went into IPSC shotgun, sporting clays, hunting, and several Trap sessions, I knew I was hooked. So here I am. I hope you guys don't get hooked into shotgun sports, too...kasi marami na kayong tatalo sa akin.:)

EC,
I read what happened to your Dad. My prayers are with you.
I was told by a shooter that it will be a 4 stage (8+8+6+12=34 rds) fundraiser. And yes, I was informed it will be All Steel, daw.

PMMA97
01-04-2006, 00:14
Is it easy to obtain PTT's for shotguns?

batangueno
01-04-2006, 01:37
Originally posted by PMMA97
Is it easy to obtain PTT's for shotguns?
Yes, as long as your gun club is a registered hunting club as well, like Armscor.

Putok-Glock
01-04-2006, 02:24
I have a new 28" Mossberg 9200 and an old Browning 11. Both are semi-autos I use for wild duck hunting. Of these 2, I can hit better w/ the Browning. Lately, I patterned the 9200 and discovered it shoot too low for my sight. Do you know of somebody who knows how to fit a shotgun to the shooter?

And, anybody who has experience w/ a Mossberg 9200? Is this a durable SG? I usually consume 4-5 boxes of #4 birdshot a day when hunting (includes a little plinking along the way).

kamelot
01-04-2006, 03:53
Originally posted by Putok-Glock
Do you know of somebody who knows how to fit a shotgun to the shooter?


Alas, the best in the business locally I know is dead - his name is Pepe Oliveros. He was a hunter first and foremost and was the gunsmith of Jethro Dionisio when he thrilled other shooters in the US Steel Challenge more than a decade ago.

There is another gunsmith who I know fits shotguns for Trap shooters. He is Bert Angeles and his shop is on the street just before the Del Monte Bridge if you are travelling from Roosevelt towards Banawe. I'll look for his address and tel no. and try to get to you ASAP. :)

Eye Cutter
01-04-2006, 04:03
Doc kamelot: lumipat na si Bert Angeles. His shop is now located at Heroes Hills, near Pantranco. At the back of Alex Car Restoration shop

kamelot
01-04-2006, 04:08
EC beat me to the punch!

Putok-Glock,

There you have it. Good luck and may the smell of gunpowder be therapeutic for you.
:)

Putok-Glock
01-04-2006, 04:30
EC, kamelot, Maraming salamat po. You saved me lots of time and energy!

antediluvianist
01-04-2006, 06:03
Any of you guys have actually fired the "Hatsan" ? If so, how is it? I held one once, my friend's - it felt very light (it's polymer).
I understand the price is pretty low in local gunshops. For a semiautomatic, hmmm.


http://www.hatsan.com.tr/escort_ps_guard.asp

kamelot
01-04-2006, 06:17
Antedeluvianist,

I tried a few rounds of #4 birdshot on the hatsan semi-auto. It has good (for me tolerable) recoil with good pointability. The problem though is with reloading. You have to press a button each time you load a round. This could pose a problem during competition. :)

batangueno
01-04-2006, 08:26
kamelot, any advise for a left handed shooter wanting to get a shotgun for competition? :)

kamelot
01-05-2006, 00:59
If you're left handed...( just a few suggestions)
1. You might naturally place the SG butt on the pocket of your left shoulder.
a. You can shoot with both eyes open and look at the target like I do...but then I'm right handed and this is the one I prefer.
b. Some folks look at the front sight/bead. If you're cross dominant (R eye dominant), you may use a small tape over the center of your R eyeglass to block the R eye if you look at the front sight/bead. If you close your R eye, then there is no need for the tape since you're sighting with your Left eye.
2. You might try to learn how to mount the gun on the Right side.
a. Again, open both eyes and look at the target.
b. If you are left eye dominant, you may have to apply a small tape on over the center of your left lens if you are looking at your front sight/bead.
3.Pump or semi-auto ---whatever floats your boat is fine ---it's a matter of personal preference. Just go for the SG that can load more rounds in the magazine.I use a semi-auto because its the one I bought at that time. I had an ARMSCOR pump which I sold eventually because I was not happy with it. When I can borrow a house gun at Armscor, I use their pump for competition after i'm done shooting the stages with my semi-auto. I had the chance to use a Remington 870P Pump and that baby is smooth. It's a bit heavy for me though.
4. Use #4,5, or #6 birdshot for IPSC steel stages.
5. You might think of buying a left handed shotgun.
6. For Trap, Skeet, and Sporting Clays, it's a different ballgame.

;)

batangueno
01-05-2006, 01:54
Thanks kamelot. :)

My only concern really is if a left handed shooter can operate a right-handed shotgun without any problems. Shooting shouldn't be a problem i guess since i'm left-eye domninant. Loading, safety disengage, reloading, etc. may be a problem though. Haven't seen a left handed shotgun shooter in a competition.

darwin25
01-05-2006, 03:03
Sir ante,

Im trying to send you a PM but your mailbox is full. Anyway sorry sir I can't buy the shotgun. Medyo tight ako ngayon sa budget. But I discussed the matter with other BOGs. I'll just let them contact you. I think deenoh is willing to buy the shotgun or swap with a .357 revolver if you're interested. Anyway Im sure there are other BOGs who would be interested. Pasensya na po. Thanks anyway for the generous offer. :)

antediluvianist
01-05-2006, 03:15
Yes, it's OK Darwin.

No problem at all, man. Others have indicated their interest, and there's deenoh with a possible swap? Will look into my inbox.

darwin25
01-05-2006, 03:22
Thanks sir.:)

kamelot
01-05-2006, 04:02
Originally posted by batangueno
Thanks kamelot. :)

My only concern really is if a left handed shooter can operate a right-handed shotgun without any problems. Shooting shouldn't be a problem i guess since i'm left-eye domninant. Loading, safety disengage, reloading, etc. may be a problem though. Haven't seen a left handed shotgun shooter in a competition.

Batangueno,

I once knew of a left handed, left eye dominant shooter who shot on his right side. He uses his left hand to reload his Remington 870P Pump and his right hand to disengage the safety. His first shot, starting with the buttstock on the hip, is about 0.6 sec and he was about 60+ yrs old then.:) Hope this helps.

PMMA97
01-05-2006, 05:20
Originally posted by darwin25
Anyway sorry sir I can't buy the shotgun. Medyo tight ako ngayon sa budget.

One down! ;f

batangueno
01-05-2006, 20:49
Thanks kamelot. :) I'll have to try a shotgun one of these days.

riddler
01-06-2006, 00:36
Originally posted by Ersatz0906
sir

I'm planning to buy shotgun, what do you recommend? my budget will be 30k

Twin pines is selling thier mossberg 88 for 28,000 but because they have no 88 model pistolize, so they sell mossberg 500 for the price of the 88. is it a good offer?

whats the deffirence between 88 and the 500?

thanks

I have these shotguns and these are MHO about them:

Mossberg Persuader - cheap, reliable, plastic triggerguard and safety button

Benelli M1S90 - light and fast. But lightweight = recoil = pain.

Remington 870 - Ultra reliable and has so many aftermarket accessories.

Remington 1187 - has pressure-compensating gas system and fore end weight that helps with the recoil. Such system do need to be cleaned every so often.

Bottomline: best shotgun for the money is the 870. Do need to practice a lot to avoid short cycling in high stress situation.

kristiansen
01-06-2006, 07:54
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Putok-Glock
[B]I have a new 28" Mossberg 9200 and an old Browning 11. Both are semi-autos I use for wild duck hunting.

Good evening Putok Glock,may i ask where do you usually see them?the ducks i mean.

Putok-Glock
01-06-2006, 08:58
In Sorsogon in Bicol.

antediluvianist
01-06-2006, 09:06
Ducks? Forty years ago, some of those isolated islands off the coast of Palawan were wonderful for bats, "Tabon" birds, herons, ducks, miscellaneous other birds, whatever. My grandfather bagged a monkey or two (not sure if that was legal, even then.)

I understand there are a lot more people in Palawan now. Can't just go around shooting anymore.

isuzu
01-06-2006, 12:59
My friends used to hunt "Balod" birds in Palawan during the early to mid-90's with 22 lrs. And someone was selling Winchester ammo in Palawan at a very reasonable price! After that, mayor Hagedorn banned hunting for those birds. They said that there were just lots of wildlife in Palawan.

kamelot
01-06-2006, 22:37
Originally posted by antediluvianist
Can't just go around shooting anymore.

True. Several years back, when you meet "nice people" they would ask where you would be going. If you tell them you are just there to hunt, they would just let you pass and roam freely. Today, you run the risk of losing your shotguns and even cause you harm. And then there's the hunting ban.:(

kristiansen
01-06-2006, 23:21
Originally posted by Putok-Glock
In Sorsogon in Bicol.

thanks manoy.im also from region 5.

isuzu
01-06-2006, 23:42
Originally posted by kamelot
True. Several years back, when you meet "nice people" they would ask where you would be going. If you tell them you are just there to hunt, they would just let you pass and roam freely. Today, you run the risk of losing your shotguns and even cause you harm. And then there's the hunting ban.:(

There's also a danger with hunters wearing full camouflage. In the early '90s, a group of bird hunters composed of employees of Victorias Milling Company, nearly met their fate had it not for the quick-thinking Special Forces who stalked them. The hunters wore full camo while hunting birds(they were using modified CO2 rifles)inside sugarcane fields. Good thing the Special Forces were experienced enough and not trigger happy. They were brought to the camp and lectured by the officer not to wear full camo while hunting.

Some states in the US require a hunter to wear several square feet of orange color incorporated in their clothing to identify them as hunters. There were several fatal incidents involving accidental shootings. The other hunter thought "it was a deer who passed his line of sight."

Putok-Glock
01-07-2006, 04:48
Originally posted by isuzu
There's also a danger with hunters wearing full camouflage...
Some states in the US require a hunter to wear several square feet of orange color incorporated in their clothing to identify them as hunters...
"

This practice of using orange colored clothing should be promoted here in the Phils. But because of the ban we hobbyist dont have the chance to educate ourselves specially the safety aspect of this wholesome past time.

Or, is there really a ban in hunting here? does anybody have the right info?

isuzu
01-07-2006, 23:49
When we had our gun safety seminar (however, it was about four years ago), we were presented by the lecturer the different gun permits, and one was a hunting permit that was issued by the provincial office of the PNP (for a fee, of course).

I don't know if they still do that today.

Django
01-08-2006, 05:39
Yes they still do issue PTT's for hunting.

Putok-Glock
01-08-2006, 08:14
Originally posted by Django
Yes they still do issue PTT's for hunting.

Does this mean hunting is not banned?

Putok-Glock
01-08-2006, 08:18
Originally posted by kristiansen
thanks manoy.im also from region 5.

Your inbox is full. Saen ka tabi sa Bicol?

kamelot
01-08-2006, 08:26
Originally posted by Django
Yes they still do issue PTT's for hunting.

I'm not sure about that. I know it's been years that they haven't issued Hunting Permits. I believe I read the memo? issued by then Sec.(?)Fred Lim, thru Gen. Lacson, to the effect that since there was a recommendation by the DENR about birds and animals "wastage" due to hunting, hunting permits'issuance will be stopped and that Hunting will not be permitted. But then, I may be mistaken.

isuzu
01-08-2006, 09:33
I think hunting should have the approval of both DENR and the PNP. Hunting permits should be issued by the DENR, and PTT for hunting, by the PNP.

Django
01-08-2006, 18:24
A cuople of friends still go hunting in the Quezon area regularly and they claim they are still being issued PTT's (valid for 3 mos. too) for hunting although they only use .22 rifles. I really don't know if it's FED Crame or the local PNP in the Quezon province who issues them this hunting permit.

FED will have a booth in the next gun show which will open late this week.

We can check with them there.

cznayr
01-08-2006, 19:23
Isuzu is right, you may encounter problems with the DENR specially with the PAWB (Parks and wildlife Bureau) even though you were given a PTT for hunting. Right now, especially with the bird flu virus, I think it would be prudent not to engage in this hobby, for the meantime atleast.

But with the other areas, locals are hunting wild boars using .22 rifles and are given special consideration by our "friends", denr and the local police.

kristiansen
01-08-2006, 19:39
Originally posted by Putok-Glock
Your inbox is full. Saen ka tabi sa Bicol?

sa daet po.but presently earning a living in the concrete jungle of manila.you may email me at kristrad@yahoo.com

vega
01-08-2006, 21:47
Originally posted by cznayr
But with the other areas, locals are hunting wild boars using .22 rifles and are given special consideration by our "friends", denr and the local police.

Kaya ba ng 22 ang baboy ramo?

vega

darwin25
01-09-2006, 04:39
Originally posted by mikey177


I'm trying to think of the most effective way to carry ammo in case I have to move around with my shotgun in a home defense scenario.

how about this one
http://www.3gungear.com/Pages/46_chest_carrier_dump_pouch.html (http://)

Putok-Glock
01-09-2006, 05:09
Originally posted by vega
Kaya ba ng 22 ang baboy ramo?

vega

I doubt it, even w/ .22WMR. This creature is dangerous madium game and its best not to be udergunned when hunting them.

My opinion is, the minimum is .357mag in handgun, a .30 caliber in rifle.

antediluvianist
01-09-2006, 05:26
A long time ago when I was in Palawan, the people used to make "pig-bombs" - explosive/grenade inside a coconut with a simple way of setting it off when a wild pig bit it.

It's good to hear that the wild pigs still exist.

kristiansen
01-09-2006, 08:30
Originally posted by antediluvianist
A long time ago when I was in Palawan, the people used to make "pig-bombs" - explosive/grenade inside a coconut with a simple way of setting it off when a wild pig bit it.

It's good to hear that the wild pigs still exist.

i always see baboy damo tapa for sale in my neighborhood weekend tiangge.vendor said its from quezon.never bought though.me thinks its from retired racehorses in the defunct san lazaro racetrack.or i could be wrong..........

mikey177
01-09-2006, 13:05
Originally posted by darwin25
how about this one
(http://www.3gungear.com/Pages/46_chest_carrier_dump_pouch.html)

Thanks for the idea, Darwin. I think I'll go with a belt bag though, so I can carry both shotgun and pistol magazines at the same time.

isuzu
01-09-2006, 18:33
Originally posted by kristiansen
i always see baboy damo tapa for sale in my neighborhood weekend tiangge.vendor said its from quezon.never bought though.me thinks its from retired racehorses in the defunct san lazaro racetrack.or i could be wrong..........

The meat of the wild boar has very little fat. It also has a gamey taste to it. It's probably because of the wild boar's diet. Wild rootcrops, grass, etc.

kristiansen
01-10-2006, 19:05
Originally posted by isuzu
The meat of the wild boar has very little fat. It also has a gamey taste to it. It's probably because of the wild boar's diet. Wild rootcrops, grass, etc.

yes,looks very lean meat.maybe should give it a try one of these days.:)

kamelot
01-11-2006, 02:46
Originally posted by antediluvianist
A long time ago when I was in Palawan, the people used to make "pig-bombs" - explosive/grenade inside a coconut with a simple way of setting it off when a wild pig bit it.


That's interesting. How is it done?

antediluvianist
01-14-2006, 02:04
Don't know the exact parts and mechanics, some explosive inside a hollowed-out coconut and some mechanism for having the thing detonated when a pig munched on it - some spring thing I suppose. They used to set out the coconut-pig bombs at night, since the baboy damo forage at night. The word for pig in that part of Palawan (near
Del Pilar, where San Miguel gets some of its sand for bottles) is "babi" , like the Indonesian word for pig (as in sate babi).

Ah, toxic, you saw that darwin will not be getting my Maverick 88 after all. You indicated interest after darwin. You still interested or got something at the GunShow?

Here's another shotgun link -

http://science.howstuffworks.com/shotgun.htm

toxic
01-14-2006, 03:58
Ah, toxic, you saw that darwin will not be getting my Maverick 88 after all. You indicated interest after darwin. You still interested or got something at the GunShow?


[/B]

Pass muna ko Sir Ante,My co-workers Dad has offered me his CZ85 combat, di pa lang kame nagkakasundo sa price and my new house needs a fence yun muna pagiipunan ko.

PMMA is interested.

Thanks

antediluvianist
01-14-2006, 06:25
No problem.

antediluvianist
01-15-2006, 03:30
Incidentally, re: hunting clubs, the former Northstar (in Makati Cinema Square) is now called the "Armscor Shooting AND HUNTING Club", with the implication for shotguns that that status carries.

antediluvianist
01-15-2006, 22:30
Wild duck shot in Scotland had bird flu
LOUISE GRAY
A DUCK shot in Scotland was suffering from a strain of bird flu, it emerged yesterday, amid growing fears of human cases of the virus in Turkey.

The mallard, shot in West Lothian in October, was tested in a UK-wide survey of hundreds of birds to check for the virus.


Out of 280 birds shot and tested, it was one of two to be infected with a strain of avian flu. However, the low-risk strain, known as H6N2, cannot spread to humans. A sheldrake was also found to be infected with a low-pathogen strain in England last year.

Scientists are on the alert for the virulent H5N1 strain spreading from Asia, where it has killed more than 70 people.

That strain has already come as far as Turkey, where it has infected 19 people and killed three children in confirmed cases.

Yesterday, there were fears a young girl had become Turkey's fourth victim, although initial tests had proved negative. In Germany, a man who had visited Turkey was admitted to a hospital in Cologne with symptoms similar to those associated with bird flu. However, he was later reported to be clear of the virus.

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) stated it was highly unlikely the duck found in Scotland would have come from areas where H5N1 has been found.

A spokeswoman said: "It is extremely unlikely this duck would have come from anywhere other than Europe. This finding is not of particular concern." It is thought the bird would have come to Scotland via western or eastern Europe.

But the discovery underlines the difficulty of ensuring that the UK remains free of bird flu, despite the extensive movement and mixture of birds.

Governments across Europe are keeping an eye on the wild bird population in order to ensure bird flu does not spread to domestic fowl. Once in poultry farms, the virus tends to become more dangerous.

DEFRA's first study of wild British birds last year tested almost 1,500 carcases caught live and shot.

Ornithologists have warned that wild birds could bring the virulent H5N1 virus to Britain by migratory routes. But even if this is to happen, it is not likely to be until autumn this year, when birds begin returning from migratory grounds in the east. The coming spring migration from Africa is considered low-risk.

However, the Conservatives criticised the government yesterday for being "complacent" in not reviewing contingency plans for bird flu until after the spring migration had taken place.

James Paice, the shadow environment minister, said the review should be carried out immediately, considering the seriousness of the threat.

He said: "Any simulation exercise to test the UK's preparedness for an outbreak of bird flu must take place immediately - not after the spring migration when many experts believe we are most likely to be exposed to the disease. Given the implications of a national outbreak, it is imperative that the government's contingency plans are reviewed now, so that the current state of readiness can be assessed and improved before the threat increases.

"It seems complacent in the extreme to delay this exercise until April, by which time it might be too late."

In Turkey, the bird flu virus has severely damaged the country's 2.5 billion poultry industry, which employs 100,000 people.

At least 455,000 domestic birds have been culled, and flu in birds is confirmed or suspected in 26 of Turkey's 81 provinces. The human cost of the disease has also been extensive.

Dozens of people have been admitted to hospital with flu-like symptoms right across Turkey, including at least three children in Istanbul, on the doorstep of Europe.

kristiansen
01-15-2006, 22:39
guys,please don't shoot the birds.unless,you need to eat them for your daily survival existence.there is no birdflu in the Philippines,yet.

casmot
01-16-2006, 01:36
Originally posted by kristiansen
guys,please don't shoot the birds.unless,you need to eat them for your daily survival existence.there is no birdflu in the Philippines,yet.

Yes, don't shoot. If you need to shoot it use a camera like sir kristiansen.:)

kristiansen
01-16-2006, 03:31
correct casmot!:) our endemic birds are continously dwindling in numbers though the asian waterbirds census we did last weekend in candaba shows promising numbers,most of them birds are migratory.;c

antediluvianist
01-16-2006, 03:46
"though the asian waterbirds census we did last weekend in candaba "

- Good God, kristiansen, does that mean that if the migrating birds eventually do get here carrying bird flu, you and your fellow bird watchers will be among the first to get infected? I suppose you just watch them from a distance?

They have to fly across the South China Sea etc. to get here? They must be pretty damn tired.

Haven't shot a bird in a long time. Maybe never will again, now that I feel guilty. Last one I shot was a white, fat dove. Looked like I had shot the Holy Ghost.

kristiansen
01-16-2006, 07:52
Originally posted by antediluvianist

- Good God, kristiansen, does that mean that if the migrating birds eventually do get here carrying bird flu, you and your fellow bird watchers will be among the first to get infected? I suppose you just watch them from a distance?

They have to fly across the South China Sea etc. to get here? They must be pretty damn tired.

Haven't shot a bird in a long time. Maybe never will again, now that I feel guilty. Last one I shot was a white, fat dove. Looked like I had shot the Holy Ghost. [/B]

ante: I will not tell you if I catch the flu,will just whisper it to you at the range hehehe.seriously,yes,we just watched them from a distance thru binoculars and spotting scope.guys,please do not touch any wild bird,healthy or sickly,specially dead birds you see.lately,due to the birdflu scare,we have noticed a high incidence of wild bird escapees,wild birds kept on captive but released due to the scare.
yes,I suppose they are also very healthy coz some of them fly all the way from siberia.

Putok-Glock
01-18-2006, 10:35
It's not the hunting or shooting of the birds that razes its population. It's the destruction of their habitat. And the usual culprit here are the illegal loggers not the hunters. Its the reason why even if hunting is far from prevalent here, the birds and all other wild games are almost gone.

Ersatz0906
01-18-2006, 16:56
Originally posted by Putok-Glock
It's not the hunting or shooting of the birds that razes its population. It's the destruction of their habitat. And the usual culprit here are the illegal loggers not the hunters. Its the reason why even if hunting is far from prevalent here, the birds and all other wild games are almost gone.

+1

so ano? open season na for the illegal loggers? ;f

Allegra
01-20-2006, 04:10
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6784477527772038619&q=ipsc

kamelot
01-20-2006, 04:48
Thanks for the video allegra.
the guy is classified into Open category -- that's why he can load more than 9 rds. Although the video is not very clear, he seems to be a very, very good shooter.

In the usual levels 1 and 2 shotgun events we have in Metro manila, number of rounds is limited to a maximum of 9. Bihira kasi ang level 3 shotgun event in Metro manila. I remember one time I used a Tecloader in a clubshoot that had no rule against it. The other shooters were up in arms against it. So I had to reshoot sans the speedloader and go "tactical". Usually the COF is limited to about 7 max so even if you have an "open gun", you are limited to somebody who uses a standard shotgun. Also, a lot of times you start on Condition 2.
I've seen our Filipino SEAGAMES shooters/candidates/scattergunners shoot faster than this guy. :) i'll still root for the flat-nosed Pinoy over him anytime.:)