P45

[MI357]

Just an FYI.....for you Kahr fans..

The January 2006 issue of American Rifleman Magazine has an article about the P45, Kahr's new Sub-Comp .45ACP handgun.

I was kinda surprised they didn't use the .45GAP round instead of the .45ACP. I would think they they would have been able to put more than 6 rounds in the mag with the GAP round.

So how many Kahr fans were looking forward to this gun being released.

I do not own a KAHR but I have shot the PM40 and it was a very nice shooter.

Enjoy...;c

[SHEPHERD321]

In that issue, did anyone else notice a large burr? or some other metal deformity on the front of the guide rod?

[SouthernBoyVA]

Originally posted by SHEPHERD321
In that issue, did anyone else notice a large burr? or some other metal deformity on the front of the guide rod?
Yes, I did. Very obvious. They have some glowing things to say about the new P45, but they are in error in one catagory. They called this new gun a "Mini". It's not a mini.. it's a standard-sized Kahr "P" series piece.

[DAVE RICHARDS]

I looked at one. They don't seem to have the same level of fit and finish as the metal guns. I have a very early MK40 and it has been a gem. It just drips with quality and craftsmanship. Never failed to fire, very accurate, nice trigger. The P-45's I've seen do not look like they are made by the same company. Although they are like most of the Kahrs and feel great in the hand I'm a little (pardon the pun) gun shy of the polymer models.
I was going to buy one until I talked to my gun dealer. He said after the experience he's had with the polymer Kahrs (in fairness none were the P45) he won't even stock one. He said the last order of polymer Kahrs he got was 6 guns. PM9's and PM40's. Of the three he sold they are all back at Kahr right now being fixed. One was so flawed right out of the box he just sent it straight back to Kahr. He said he'd order one for me if I really wanted it but he wouldn't recommend it at this point. Think I'll wait awhile after his advice.

[AZ Traveler]

MI357,
If Kahr made a 45 in 45GAP it would not hold any more rounds. The 45ACP and the 45GAP are about the same dia. So if you were to stack them in a mag they would take up the same length or height in the mag.

The 45 GAP is a shorter then the 45ACP, kind of like the 40S&W is shorter then the 10mm. The "advantage" that the 45GAP has is that it will fit in a handgun with a smaller grip frame. Just like a 40S&W will fit in a smaller frame handgun then a 10mm.

Kahr makes full power handguns in the small packages. A Kahr in 45GAP would have a slide like the P45 and the grip about like a P40 but little fatter.

The 45GAP is a "new" round. Popularity is yet to be determined. Handguns using 9mm, 40S&W, and 45ACP rounds are proven sellers.

Beginning of Opinion.
I believe the 45GAP is a higher pressure round then the 45ACP. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) The lower pressure of the 45ACP should cause less design and function problems then the 45GAP.

Kahr is just starting to market a 45 caliber handgun. A Kahr in 45GAP does not make sense to me at this time. It may make sense in the future. Note:I have no inside knownledge about any future plans of any gunmaker let alone Kahr.

Remember Glock make both 45ACP and 45GAP versions their handguns. I believe Glock is going after the market with smaller hands that still want a 45 caliber. Generally Kahrs are smaller Glocks in a given caliber.

I have not compared a Glock 45GAP and a Kahr P45 to see which is smaller. That would be interesting.

End of Opinion.

[engineer151515]

Originally posted by AZ Traveler

Beginning of Opinion.
I believe the 45GAP is a higher pressure round then the 45ACP. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) The lower pressure of the 45ACP should cause less design and function problems then the 45GAP.


True but relative.
Per the Maximum Average Pressure (PSI) recommended by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute.

21,000 psi - 45acp
23,000 psi - 45gap (with brass thicker in some spots) = 45acp +p

v/s

35,000 psi - .40SW
40,000 psi - .357sig

I'm not sure there are substantially different design issues relative to the pressures.

Info source:
http://www.ramshot.com/powders/loadpressure.php

[AZ Traveler]

Point Taken. Engineer. Thanks.

I guess if I'm wishing. How about a P10 in 10mm? I'll bet that would be a handfull with full power loads.

;f

[Daubs]

Originally posted by SHEPHERD321
In that issue, did anyone else notice a large burr? or some other metal deformity on the front of the guide rod?

I noticed that nick right away. After reading the article and hearing AR talking up the build quality it would have made sense to Photoshop the blemish out of the picture. It could have been the lighting in the photo also.

I think if I was corporate at Kahr I wouldn't be any too pleased to see that big blemish displayed front and center in a magazine. This is especially true when the shooting public is complaining about he build quality of the polymer Kahr's. As a Businessman myself I'm beginning to wonder if demand for their polymer models isn't overcoming their production capability. Maybe a redesign of the polymer models is needed to speed up production capability. KISS (keep it simple stupid) would be the first order of business in redesigning their polymer lineup.

And Kahr, if your listening, I’m available on a consulting basis. ;)

[Daubs]

Here is a picture of the blemish as shown in American Rifleman Magazine:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/Daubs2/P45Kahr.jpg

[Bodhi]

I own a new KP45 with night sights. I bought it about 4 weeks ago. I only have 300 rounds through it so far but no issues at all with it.

I would only classify it a mini in regards to other 45 calibers....it is significantly thinner than my HK USPc 45 and while not as small a package as my PM9, it has to be a bit bigger since it is a 45.

The KP45 is a good compromise if you want a concealable 45. I wanted to love the Glock 30...but I could conceal a brick in my waistband easier;g

[RonRC]

Originally posted by Daubs
I noticed that nick right away. After reading the article and hearing AR talking up the build quality it would have made sense to Photoshop the blemish out of the picture. It could have been the lighting in the photo also.

I think if I was corporate at Kahr I wouldn't be any too pleased to see that big blemish displayed front and center in a magazine. This is especially true when the shooting public is complaining about he build quality of the polymer Kahr's. As a Businessman myself I'm beginning to wonder if demand for their polymer models isn't overcoming their production capability. Maybe a redesign of the polymer models is needed to speed up production capability. KISS (keep it simple stupid) would be the first order of business in redesigning their polymer lineup.

And Kahr, if your listening, I’m available on a consulting basis. ;)

Is that a blemish or is it the end of the spring that is inside and has reflected some of the light?

Ron

[Daubs]

Originally posted by RonRC
Is that a blemish or is it the end of the spring that is inside and has reflected some of the light?

Ron

Could be? But if you cover the Blemish/spring what ever it is the hole would look oval. Good point though.

[SHEPHERD321]

That is not the spring. It looks like the guide rod hit the edge of its hole repeatedly.

[duncan]

Originally posted by MI357
Just an FYI.....for you Kahr fans..
I was kinda surprised they didn't use the .45GAP round instead of the .45ACP. I would think they they would have been able to put more than 6 rounds in the mag with the GAP round.


Kahr using Glock Auto Pistol caliber;Q

Why would Kahr want to help their biggest competitor?

GAP is still a Glock only round. I understand SA may be coming out with a gun in GAP. But that's it.

[chance3290]

Originally posted by duncan
Kahr using Glock Auto Pistol caliber;Q

Why would Kahr want to help their biggest competitor?

GAP is still a Glock only round. I understand SA may be coming out with a gun in GAP. But that's it.

I disagree and think that Glock is Kahr's biggest benefactor. Glock doesn't seem to be greedy or else, with their receivers now being made in GA, they would come out with a single stack 9 and 40 and put Kahr out of business.

And SA has already come out with their wee-little 45GAP.

[RonRC]

Kahr has their own little niche, one that I don't think threatens Glock at all. Kahr makes a few very small, tight tolerance, very high quality pistols (and they better improve their quality control or they may lose their small market) that are treasured by a small group of gun owners. Perhaps the CW series is an attempt to enter the Glock market, but, as much as I wish Kahr success, Glock has little to fear.

The real competitors are SA with the XD models, Sig Sauer and Taurus 24/7 models. Even with those companies competing, Glock has little to fear, given their dedicated following.

Of course I base my opinion on little to no data.;f

Ron

[Rusty Shackleford]

Originally posted by duncan
Kahr using Glock Auto Pistol caliber;Q

Why would Kahr want to help their biggest competitor?

GAP is still a Glock only round. I understand SA may be coming out with a gun in GAP. But that's it.

The XD and 1911 have been available in GAP for a while, to mention a couple. I'm sure there are more... not exactly a Glock only round anymore. I don't see Kahr as a competitor.. I can't conceal a Glock in my pocket. Even so, in order to compete you need to offer comparable options. It's easier to also offer guns in GAP than it is to develop your own round that will fit a .45 into a smaller grip.

[chance3290]

Originally posted by RonRC
Kahr has their own little niche, one that I don't think threatens Glock at all. Kahr makes a few very small, tight tolerance, very high quality pistols (and they better improve their quality control or they may lose their small market) that are treasured by a small group of gun owners. Perhaps the CW series is an attempt to enter the Glock market, but, as much as I wish Kahr success, Glock has little to fear.

Ron

I agree that Glock has nothing to fear, in fact, as I said, I think its the other way around should Glock ever decide to get into slim-line 9 or 40.
And, as much as I love my P40, it took me two return trips to get it to feed properly (Now I stick with PowRBall rounds), so I'm with you on the quality control.

[Daubs]

Originally posted by SHEPHERD321
That is not the spring. It looks like the guide rod hit the edge of its hole repeatedly.

Another interesting take on the blemish. It does seem strange that it would occur in the same location again and again. Some one should write American Rifleman and see if they have an explanation.

I still think this won't do any favors for public opinion of Kahr's polymer line up.

[CarolinaKat]

When I first looked at the picture in AR I too thought it was some kind of blemish, damage, etc. After reading this thread I'm looking at the magazine now and I think that it is actually oil/grease/crud buildup. AR should have done a better job of wiping it down for the picture.