What's an affordable double-stack 1911-style .45?

[Kevin108]

I'd like to get a 1911 next but as of now all I really know much about are well...this IS GlockTalk. I don't wanna break the bank on this as it will really just be part of the collection, but I want to get something reliable.

I know I want it full size, I know I want it 14+1 full cap, and I'm gonna say a budget of about $700.

What do you know of off the top of your head that fits the bill? Wait, if it's a Taurus, I'll pass. ;f

[brownie]

SA gov 45 in double stack was around 550.00 or less last I looked.

Robin Brown

[bsjones84]

Check out Para-ordnance (www.paraord.com) they have a few double stack 1911 style guns. They're priced a little higher, but some still around $700. I have a Para-Ordnance 1911 SSP that I really like. It's single stack though.

[freepatriot]

Originally posted by Kevin108
I'd like to get a 1911 next but as of now all I really know much about are well...this IS GlockTalk.

This is a 1911 site cleverly disguised as a Glock site. ;)










;f

Why double-stack? No need for it, you Glockie. ;)


If your budget was < $500 I would say Springfield.

Your $700 budget puts you into Colt Territory. ;?


http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21_141/page/1/sort/4a

(I have put the full size models in bold for you)

In your budget:
O4691 Colt 1991 Commander .45acp 4.25" Blue $636.26
O1991 Colt 1991 Government .45acp 5" Blue $636.26*
O4091U Colt 1991 Commander 4 1/4" .45 ACP Stainless $679.28
O1091 Colt 1991 Gov't .45 ACP 5" Stainless $679.28
O1991Z COLT O1991Z 1991A1 CUST 45 5IN MT BL $703.54
O2091 COLT O2091 GOVT 38SUP 5IN STS $722.28

Pushing your budget a little:
O1980XSE Colt 1911 XSE Government Enhanced Compitition .45 Blue $764.19
O1070XSE Colt 1911 XSE Government Enhanced Compitition .45 Stainless $764.19
O4860XSE Colt 1911 XSE Lightweight Commander .45 Stainless $764.19
O1970A1CS Colt 1911 Gov't .45 ACP Blue $766.39


Above your stated budget:
O1070A1CS COLT O1070A1CS GOVT 45 5IN SS/ROSE $791.76
O5870CS Colt 1911 Gold Cup Trophy .45acp Blue $827.04
O5070X Colt 1911 Gold Cup Trophy Stainless $866.74
O9840CGP Colt 1911 Gunsite Pistol .45acp Aluminum Anodized $1,036.56
O1980CGP Colt 1911 Gunsite Pistol 5" Blue .45 ACP $1,190.94
01070CGP Colt 1911 Gunsite Pistol 5" Stainless .45 ACP $1,190.94
O1980CM Colt 1911 Special Combat Gov't .45acp, Blue / Satin nickel $1,249.38
O2570CM COLT O2570CM SPL CMBT GOV 38SUP 5HB BL $1,249.38
O2580CM COLT O2580CM SPL CMBT GOV 38SUP TT $1,249.38


* - the one I bought

[SVTNate]

14+1 double stack? What you're looking for isn't a 1911!

[bsjones84]

Springfield only has one high cap model 1911 that I'm aware of, the GI high capacity. It's around $600. Para had a bunch of them, single action, double action...a lot to choose from. Some of them are over your $700 budget, but depending on how much you like the gun you might be willing to stretch it. If not, there are still some of the cheaper ones that will fit your description.

[XIII]

Another option you might look at is the Kimber BP 10. I dont know a lot about it but its a polymer frame double stack (mags are expensive but you can modify Para mags to work). Off the top of my head I think it has an external extractor. I know around here they go for about 550 at gun stores but you can find better deals than that if you look. Just an option.

[Rinspeed]

Better off chosing a single stack 1911 or go with soemthing like the HK USP. Double stack 1911s aren't exactly known for their reliability. HK USPs on the other hand are and they give you the option of cocked and locked.

[michael t]

You don't need a double stack First you loose the great feel of a 1911 In you hand. Then they are. As others have said not as reliable But last and most important they aren't a 1911a1 or even a good clone.

[Kevin108]

I bought the new Guns and Ammo Annual when I got my groceries today. I've found a model close to my specs, but I don't know anything about it otherwise:

A Springfield 1911-A1 GI
13+1, 5" barrel, MSRP $617

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-GI.shtml

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistols/a1/PW9108L.jpg

Any input?

[Trumpet]

I'd be wary of an "affordable, hi cap" 1911. IIRC the only hi cap 1911's that are truly proven to be ultra reliable are the STI/SVI and Wilson offerings. Other than that, if you're dead set on a "hi cap" get a USP. I have one and it's great. It's no 1911, but it's quite nice. I'll probably end up sending it to Bruce Gray for some work and a grip tang reduction though.

Rich

[bsjones84]

That's the gun I was referring to. I thought about buying one, it has a good feel and everything. Never shot one though. Sights aren't worth much, can see better with glass eyes. Good base though if you switch the grips and the sights. Not a lot of double stack 1911s to choose from that are that cheap though.

[freepatriot]

Can't go wrong with a Springfield GI

[brownie]

"I'd be wary of an "affordable, hi cap" 1911. IIRC the only hi cap 1911's that are truly proven to be ultra reliable are the STI/SVI and Wilson offerings."

I'm not sure where you get that idea from. Para's have been around for quite some time and have been reliable weapons.

I had a para p14 from one of their first kits with aluminum frame built that ran and ran with the best 1911's I've owned. I also had a para frame mated to another SA slide parts gun that was reliable, at least as much so as most 1911's out there.

Kevein108, thats the SA I mentioned earlier. I've handled one, but not shot it. Seemed well made to me. My street carry 45 is a stock SA single stack from the mid 80's with 10's of thousands of rds through it, no issues to speak of.

Paras have had problems but so has every other gun maker of 1911's. You can do a search on any custom 1911 like Baers and see people who have had issues as well.

You buy a 1911 type gun, you run a crap shoot something may be wrong and it goes back to the factory. Some makers are more prone to issues regularly than others though.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy the SA widebody if I wanted one myself. Nor a para for that matter.

Robin Brown

[Trumpet]

Originally posted by brownie
"I'd be wary of an "affordable, hi cap" 1911. IIRC the only hi cap 1911's that are truly proven to be ultra reliable are the STI/SVI and Wilson offerings."

I'm not sure where you get that idea from.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy the SA widebody if I wanted one myself. Nor a para for that matter.

Robin Brown

I get the idea from having two POS Para's before. Never again.

[Kevin108]

It's on the list then! Should be about 3 months away unless something else claims $$$ first.

[brownie]

"I get the idea from having two POS Para's before. Never again."

Thats personal experience, not a general consensus about the companies products on the boards from many.

Everyones products of 1911's have issues at times, QC, service, whatever it may be.

I just fixed a Colt for a student who had sent it back twice to be fixed since new and it never ran right. He thought it was a POS as well. Took all of 10 minutes and it was running fine all day afterwards.

That speaks about AN example, not the Colt product in general as you alluded to initially with Para's. Thats the point that was being made, show where the general consensus is Paras are junk.

Robin Brown

[mrwiggins]

stainless finish, one single stack, one double stack.
look for used guns, my plan is a para p13 lower, with a colt upper.

[Trumpet]

Originally posted by brownie
"I get the idea from having two POS Para's before. Never again."

Thats personal experience, not a general consensus about the companies products on the boards from many.

Everyones products of 1911's have issues at times, QC, service, whatever it may be.

I just fixed a Colt for a student who had sent it back twice to be fixed since new and it never ran right. He thought it was a POS as well. Took all of 10 minutes and it was running fine all day afterwards.

That speaks about AN example, not the Colt product in general as you alluded to initially with Para's. Thats the point that was being made, show where the general consensus is Paras are junk.

Robin Brown

I had TWO (not one) bought years apart. I thought I'd give them another chance. I can see if you have a problem once, hey everyone turns out a lemon sometime, but twice? No-go. There's a reason many smiths won't work on them. FWIW, I've never had problems with any of my Colts or Springers. The thing keeping the SA hi cap off my list is the availability (and quality) of mags, as I don't know much about them.


Rich

[1*45]

Well I guess I will throw my nickle in too. I have used Para Ordnance since they came out, and yes they have had there bugs. The same as others too (Glock, Colt, S&W, Sig, H-K, STI, and others). Just last week i had a converstion with a well to do person who sank over 2K for a nighthawk and had problems with his first magazine. I wont get into spacifics but for that money told him to return it under warrenty. These things happen in a rushed world.

Now onto the PARA, The first problem i encountered were the weak mag springs, Did the Wolff cure with 10% ones.
The second encounter was from others not mainting them IE cleaning and lubrication, even out of the box new firearms will only have a light coat of machine oil if anything.
The third was the extractor not being with the proper tension.
Every pistol i have worked on over the years had more than one problem at the same time ie failed to extract/feed - usually it was the magazine along with something like not enough or any lubrication, or too light of lubrication and shooting until the barrel gets too hot and it evaporates especially the tighter guns with stainless steel.

As always the majority of pistols , even Para will run.
You have to ask , what do i intend to use this for?
Just range, self protection or hardly ever shooting (once a year to the range).
Your use or requirements will play you to the reliability needed in your firearm.
I have some Para's that I have one bets on because of the rumour of them not working. A well maintained and often used firearm is something to be had. I will tell you that yes I like my Para double stacks in steel or stainless and will check them out before firing the first shot. I have found shavings, metal filings, rust under the lubrication too as well as excess metal hitting the moving parts that are not moving. I stay away from the alloy guns due to my hard use on the range, they dont seem to hold up.
As in any firearm its the buyers choice and beware of those who will taint the others. Alas in the U. S. we still have a choice on what we will spend on.
Dont get me wrong, I have my share of Colts, S&W, Glocks and others, but some are for differnt working environments.
Hope I did not confuse the issue here, just wanted you to know a diffent side of the coin.
Stay safe, shoot as much as you can. Please let me know if I can offer any assistance, cheers.

[Lobezno001]

I had a tac-four para, the double stack commander, and it ran like a champ. It was a bit heavy for me to carry all day so I traded it for a SSP, their govt single stack model. That was almost 2 years ago. Since then, I've acquired another tac-four and the tac-s. They each have seen over 3000 rounds and have never given me any problems.

I also own 3 Kimbers, two with EX extractors, with about 3000 rounds collectively. Again, no problems. I know a lot of problems can arise when people start to tinker with them, and sometimes they are junk right from the box. I'm grateful that the only mods I have ever done were changing the grips, hopefully I won't need to ever retire one because it becomes unreliable.

I will agree that many smiths won't touch Paras, as I recently sent out my two Comm models. One smith argued with me that Paras are junk before he even heard what I wanted. Then he found out how many rounds I've got thru them and that I was only interested in bobtailing one of them and refinishing the other. As soon as he heard me say that he didn't need to do any trigger or reliability work, then he became interested in taking my money.

Needless to say, I'm using another smith.

A double stack 1911 is a great gun to shoot when it is functioning correctly, no better, no worse than a single stack. Just a bit heavier. I'm sure that which ever model you choose, you'll enjoy it very much.

Regards,

Lobez

[Carlitos]

Double stack 1911s??? You are on the wrong forum: try searching & then asking at www.brianenos.com

Every competitive 1911 in Limited division is a double stack, though mostly they are .40 cal.

As for who makes a double stack 1911?

-Para Ord
-Springfield
-Kimber (previously an Israel Military Industries/BUL product)
-Rock Island Armory
-IMI/BUL
-Caspian (no complete guns)
-STI
-SV
-SPS
-Dlask
-Wilson (discontinued)
-Enterprise arms (discontinued)

and I am sure there are others I have missed. Again, the double stack has been around for years & years; more than enough time to prove the concept. You like single stacks? Good for you. Me too. That is not what the original poster asked about. Take a look at the guns fromthe list above; better yet, check with a search on www.brianenos.com

[1*45]

Exactly what CARLITOS said, Thats a start and let your wallet drive you. Cheers

[PimpStick]

Kimber Ten II Hi Cap. 13+1.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/ten.php

[glocker21]

I own two SA Hi Cap pistols (PW9701L). The one I have customized has in the nieghborhood of 2500 rds through it..and ZERO problems.

I have since sold my three Para Ordnance pistols...they just could not compare.

When you field strip a SA high Cap you may ne suprised by the abbreviated frame rails. I have found that these speed cycling due to reduced drag.

I love my SAs;c

[glocker21]

I own two SA Hi Cap pistols (PW9701L)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/glocker21/PW9701LHighCapacitySpringfieldArmor.jpg

The one I have customized has in the nieghborhood of 2500 rds through it..and ZERO problems.

I have since sold my three Para Ordnance pistols...they just could not compare.

When you field strip a SA high Cap you may ne suprised by the abbreviated frame rails.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e213/glocker21/SpringfieldArmoryHighCapacityExplod.jpg

I have found that these speed cycling due to reduced drag.

I love my SAs;c