.22LR and airguns [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Kiddo
01-09-2006, 08:00
Hey BOGs! How does a CO2 air rifle compare with a .22LR rifle in terms of lethality/defense capability? How about accuracy and effective range? Lets say these aren't high end rifles. Both of them are Armscor. What do you guys think? Thanks.

vega
01-09-2006, 09:46
They both make the same diameter and Armscor air rifles have a velocity of 1000+ fps. For killing rats thay are both deadly. The downside with air rifles, isang putok isang karga. Accuracy will also vary depending on the weather unlike compressed air.

vega

isuzu
01-09-2006, 18:24
Originally posted by Kiddo
Hey BOGs! How does a CO2 air rifle compare with a .22LR rifle in terms of lethality/defense capability? How about accuracy and effective range? Lets say these aren't high end rifles. Both of them are Armscor. What do you guys think? Thanks.

The best way, IMHO, is to chrono a CO2 and a 22lr rifle and get the results. You can still get killed by an air rifle, though.

horge
01-09-2006, 18:40
BB
.177 diameter, 5 to 8.7 grains of lead at 700 to 1100 ft/s

.22LR
.22 diameter, 30 to 40 grains of lead at 1050 to >1350 ft/s

zorkd
01-09-2006, 21:31
. . . i'd go for a .22lr rifle, my first .22lr was an american made marlin model 60, very accurate considering that it was a mass produced cheap ass gun, it feeds from a tube mag and can fire and cycle anything from subsonic remingtons to yellow jackets hi velocity. though i used mostly armscor ammo both hi vel and standard vel on it.

oh yeah, i killed more rats on it than i can count... with a 3-9x32 tasco scope.

it can also fire .22 short, but it will not cycle the action.

Putok-Glock
01-09-2006, 22:06
Originally posted by Kiddo
Hey BOGs! How does a CO2 air rifle compare with a .22LR rifle in terms of lethality/defense capability? How about accuracy and effective range? Lets say these aren't high end rifles. Both of them are Armscor. What do you guys think? Thanks.

For lethality/defense purposes, both are not apt for the job. They can kill but does not have the instant incapacitation we need in such cases.

As for accuracy and effective range, both can be accurate w/in their respective ranges. For CO2, accuracy can be had w/in 40 yds. for .22 caliber pellet. For .177 pellet the range is shorter. For .22LR rifle the equivalent range is w/in 100 yrd for high velocity ammo, and w/ standard vel. and sub-sonic ammo the range is w/in 75 yds. But some very accurate .22LR rifles can extend these ranges to 150yds. and 100 yds respectively.

If you want an airgun that has the reach and accuracy of .22LR rifles, go for a pre-charged pneumatic. This airgun uses compressed air w/ 3,000 psi pressure and a single charge can give you 75+ accurate shots w/ a range of 75-100 yds for a .25 pellet. The only downside to this is the price. In the last gunshow, it was priced at 160T pesos in a .177 configuration.

Pls take note, the accuracy Im talking here is hunting accuracy. Bullseye or target accuracy is totally a different story.

Putok-Glock
01-10-2006, 02:16
May I add, Armscor rifles in .22LR/WMR can be very accurate. I have seen an armscor bolt action in .22WMR shoot almost as accurate as an Anschutz. Same w/ an armscor AK-22 semi-auto in .22LR can shoot side-by-side w/ a Remington 597 in terms of shot groupings off a bench rest.

Its something we Filipinos should be proud of :)

batangueno
01-10-2006, 02:33
Putok-Glock, when you say "can be accurate" does it mean modifications has to be done to the Armscor rifles to be accurate? Or are they accurate out of the box?

Kiddo
01-10-2006, 03:06
Originally posted by batangueno
Putok-Glock, when you say "can be accurate" does it mean modifications has to be done to the Armscor rifles to be accurate? Or are they accurate out of the box?

I was going to ask the same question. Hehe. Also, how much do armscor .22 rifles cost?

antediluvianist
01-10-2006, 08:09
Beyond a certain velocity, the accuracy of a airgun pellet degrades. That's why the Olympic super-accurate air rifles shoot at velocities below 800 fps.

Try a break-barrel piston-powered airrifle if you want to dispense with CO2 or air pressure. They are expensive, though, and imported. They can also reach 1000 fps in sporter (non-competition) models, and are more quiet than a gas airrifle. The trouble is: spare parts.

I cannot imagine seriously intending to defend oneself against human attackers with an airrifle. But they are very good against birds and rats and small animals in general.

Putok-Glock
01-10-2006, 08:59
Originally posted by batangueno
Putok-Glock, when you say "can be accurate" does it mean modifications has to be done to the Armscor rifles to be accurate? Or are they accurate out of the box?

Most are accurate out of the box. No mods are needed. But I've tested a few samples that are not.

On my rifles, the only modification I did was to free float the barrel. But I do these only to enhance the accuracy of an already accurate rifle.

Their bolt action rifle costs from 8T-11T in 2004. But their semi-autos are quite expensive and starts from 16T.

Their after sales service is also very good. My brod once got a brand new rifle w/ over bored chamber. We contacted Armscor Marikina who instructed us to return the deffective rifle. After a month or so, the rifle was sent back to us w/ a new barrel chambered in specs.

On the downside, their blue finnish is not durable, the metal-to-wood fit is a bit sloppy and their wooden stock is too soft for rugged use.

Allegra
01-10-2006, 10:23
Originally posted by Kiddo
Hey BOGs! How does a CO2 air rifle compare with a .22LR rifle in terms of lethality/defense capability? How about accuracy and effective range? Lets say these aren't high end rifles. Both of them are Armscor. What do you guys think? Thanks.



as protection laban sa mga nanunungkit ng sampayan or mga magnanakaw ng manga sa tabing bahay , both are capable enough

Sure, I wouldnt want to be hit by any , pero marami pa ako ambisyon sa buhay
If a determined at patapon na miscreant were to attack you , I doubt uurungan nya ang air rifle
I woldnt bet my life on low end firearms either , I'd rather run away screaming in terror

bass one
01-10-2006, 18:18
They both make the same diameter and Armscor air rifles have a velocity of 1000+ fps.
Armscor (and most) CO2 rifles only go around 650-700 fps out-of-the-box, based on actual tests by friends using chrono. Break barrels go even above 1000 fps but has a lot of kick. PCPs - 800 up. All in 22. But as Ante said, the higher the fps value the more flyers, moreso in 177.

As for the original question, I'd go with lr.

isuzu
01-10-2006, 18:43
Originally posted by Putok-Glock
May I add, Armscor rifles in .22LR/WMR can be very accurate. I have seen an armscor bolt action in .22WMR shoot almost as accurate as an Anschutz. Same w/ an armscor AK-22 semi-auto in .22LR can shoot side-by-side w/ a Remington 597 in terms of shot groupings off a bench rest.

Its something we Filipinos should be proud of :)

I can attest to that. My friend was dismayed by his Anschutz when he was shooting with with a couple of shooting buddies. He was the only one who had an Anschutz. The rest had Armscors.

He ran out of match ammo and used Armscor standard velocity. The Armscor rifles shot better with local, non-match grade ammo.

IMHO, Armscor 22lrs are better made now.

As to lethality, they can be lethal if you know how to use 22 lr. The late Ronald Reagan almost died from a 22 lr round to his body when he was shot.

When the Secret Service placed him inside the presidential car, it is standard procedure to thoroughly check his body after an attack. The Secret Service noticed that he was getting weak. He then removed his clothing and found a little wound in his torso from a 22 lr.

One movie that fascinated me was the "Brotherhood of the Rose." I saw it during the Betamax years. It was a story of two "brothers" who were orphans, and handpicked by a handler, were trained and placed in special projects. The handler later made them kill each other. The brothers used Walther PP pistols in 22 lr a lot.

The movie was of course, fiction, but a lot were patterned from groups who specialize in "black operations."

isuzu
01-10-2006, 18:46
Originally posted by zorkd
. . . i'd go for a .22lr rifle, my first .22lr was an american made marlin model 60, very accurate considering that it was a mass produced cheap ass gun, it feeds from a tube mag and can fire and cycle anything from subsonic remingtons to yellow jackets hi velocity. though i used mostly armscor ammo both hi vel and standard vel on it.

oh yeah, i killed more rats on it than i can count... with a 3-9x32 tasco scope.

it can also fire .22 short, but it will not cycle the action.

Marlin has microgroove rifling and they claim it's more accurate than conventional rifling.

Benj
01-10-2006, 18:58
How about the noise? I've never heard a .22LR being shot yet, hindi kaya maririnig ng lahat when you're trying to kill some rats? :)

vega
01-11-2006, 09:24
Originally posted by bass one
Armscor (and most) CO2 rifles only go around 650-700 fps out-of-the-box, based on actual tests by friends using chrono. Break barrels go even above 1000 fps but has a lot of kick. PCPs - 800 up.
Maybe the velocity would improve after you break-in the barrel. Just maybe. Armscor Air Rifles are good for the money, my son got 4 medals on the first Air rifle competition held at Armscor. He was hesitant to compete because most competitors had all the good things money can buy for their rifles. Too bad we cannot take it here.

vega

isuzu
01-11-2006, 19:14
Originally posted by vega
Maybe the velocity would improve after you break-in the barrel. Just maybe. Armscor Air Rifles are good for the money, my son got 4 medals on the first Air rifle competition held at Armscor. He was hesitant to compete because most competitors had all the good things money can buy for their rifles. Too bad we cannot take it here.

vega

Not bad for an Armscor air rifle. Honestly, nasa pulso yan;) .

bass one
01-11-2006, 19:50
Armscor Air Rifles are good for the money, my son got 4 medals on the first Air rifle competition held at Armscor. He was hesitant to compete because most competitors had all the good things money can buy for their rifles.
Yes, definitely, I'm not discounting the fact that Armscor air rifles are accurate and very good for competitions and even hunting games within 20 yards. Congrats to your son! Isuzu is right, nasa pulso din yan.

isuzu
01-11-2006, 20:35
Vega,

There are Armscor distributors in Las Vegas, and PA when I checked their website. They can probably arrange to get you an air rifle.

jasonub
01-11-2006, 21:10
reading about anschutz

I remember i had a supermatch the one they use for the 3 position in the olympics. i again regret that i sold that rifle.

It was so accurate that when i use t22 rounds 5 shots will be inside a hole measured .17 of an inch center to center at 50 meters.

the armscor bullets are trash for uit matches since it only groups about .3 of an inch center to center at the same distance. you can hear bang... putt.... bang... booom... bang on these bullets. you will hit the 9 and maybe the 8 ring on a standard target at 50meters with that kind of grouping

the best groups were the eley tenex which measured .11 of an inch at 50 meters center to center.

i miss that rifle:(

vega
01-12-2006, 04:00
Originally posted by isuzu
Vega,

There are Armscor distributors in Las Vegas, and PA when I checked their website. They can probably arrange to get you an air rifle.
Graduate na kami sa Air rifle and besides real rifles are cheaper than air rifles. If I am to get an air rifle I'd opt for the compressed one like JBC or Talon, kung kaya ng bulsa. Around $500...;Q

vega