I'm PISSED! Should I be? (They wouldn't give me back my gun.) [Archive] - Glock Talk

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10 Ring Tao
01-17-2006, 20:50
My AK pistol was finally done, and of course, I had to register it. I take it in and right away I knew there were going to be problems.

First, at west bloomfield PD, they use cadets to man the front desk. The two cadets opened the box containing the AK pistol, and immediately started turning it over and looking for the serial number. They were confused because there was the serial on the receiver, and then some numbers on the front sight block for parts matching.

Second, the ewbanks receiver that was used for the build wasn't in their database, and the cadet was too inexperienced to put 9999 for other into the make or manufacturer field.

So what do they do? They go get Lt. Chapin to take a look at it and try to get this thing registered after a ridiculous hour and a half of sitting and waiting.

Heres where it gets interesting.

After some more waiting while they look at it in the back room, he calls me up to the front desk and says, "I'm not qualified to make a call on this gun. It looks like a rifle to me, even chambered in a rifle caliber. You're trying to say this is a pistol. This is too many inconsistencies for me to allow you take this home before our firearms expert takes a look at it. I feel like it needs to stay here until we solve this. These days I'm sure you understand, we have to be on the safe side."

Aren't they fond of saying to we civilians, that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Shouldn't that apply to them as well? Ignorance of the law is no excuse for taking my lawful property without cause.

I even offered to get Ken on the phone, the guy who built it, to explain to Mr. Lt Chapin just how wrong he was.

At this point I was blown away by the absolute ignorance, but politely tried to explain how this was built using a virgin receiver as a pistol, despite using a rifle caliber. When rebuffed again, I finally said I'd like my gun back and that I'll come back in the next chance I get.

He refused to give me the gun back.

No effort was made to catalog or guarantee the return of my lawful property. They didn't take my name, or phone number. I had to ask for a receipt as they were getting up to leave the room, and the sorry excuse for a receipt is attached below: A hand written paragraph, with the 'other' parts matching number on it no less!

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm104/10RingTao/gun%20stuff/akreceipt.jpg

I have lots of ideas, but in your opinions, what should I do?

Hauptmann6
01-17-2006, 20:52
I would be phoning the state attorny general or a local lawyer...

45acp4me
01-17-2006, 20:55
Hauptmann6 is right, call the office of Mike Cox ASAP and give Jim Simmons a call, both should be able to help.

gsbell
01-17-2006, 20:56
Do you have Jim Simmons phone number?

45acp4me
01-17-2006, 20:59
Originally posted by gsbell
Do you have Jim Simmons phone number?

Just PM'd it to him. :)

I'd offer to show up as part of an unruly mob, but something tells me that won't help. ;)

gsbell
01-17-2006, 21:17
What a joke, these PD's are really starting to tick me off.

10 Ring Tao
01-17-2006, 21:25
I'm going in tomorrow morning an hour after they open, and an hour after the expert guy is supposed to be in. If they haven't come to their senses and registered it, and have it and a green card waiting for me, I'll immediately put a call in to Jim.

Anyone else I should call, or anything else I should do if:

A- They make it right. Is there any kind of hell I can raise for my property being taken contrary to the law, and without a warrant? Granted it was only one night, but what this amounts to, is that some cop didn't like the way it looked, and decided they were going to hang on to it, "Just to be safe". That can't be kosher, and if it isn't, I want them to know it and experience any kind of consequences that can be applied.

B- They continue to be ignorant of the law. Jim right away of course, but anyone else I need to get in touch with to bring some serious immediate heat down on them?

gsbell
01-17-2006, 21:58
You are experiencing the difference between power and authority.

If you show up tomorrow and things aren't going well suggest they call the BATF if they don't understand what a f'ing pistol is. They must think you have a SBR or something.
What are they going to do when someone comes in with one of those new Keltec PLR-16's ?

DrMo
01-17-2006, 21:59
I think you should just reserve judgement until their "expert" looks at it.

I have registered guns with WB and always found them very friendly and quick about it. Although I don't understand the cadet system. I had to explain to one cadet the meaning of a double negative and why he was wrong about one of the answers on the quiz. ;Q Screw working the desk, send them to Detroit for a couple years instead and let them get a real eduaction on what it's like to police, not just fill out forms and work the phones. Teach them the difference between good citizens and criminals. I made the observation that when I'm in WB and I see a cop I get affraid because if I fart wrong they will probably pull me over and ticket me after a verbal abusing. Meanwhile, when I'm in Detroit I feel relieved when a squad car rolls by.

Come tommorrow if the "expert" wants to keep it, then pick up the phone and get pissed.

hakuin
01-17-2006, 22:14
The advice to just see how things go tomorrow sounds really appropriate.

You won't have any recourse about them keeping your gun overnight while trying to decide for themselves if what you walked in the door with is legal or not...(despite your knowledge and probably even looking like a decent sort, cops get lied to often). Let me rephrase that...you can sue, and raise a fuss and whine, or just let them satisfy themselves that it (and you) are okay, and you'll have your gun registered in short order.

If not, THEN it's time to start making some noise. Will you FORCE them to give over your gun before they're ready to? I doubt it. Can they be persuaded through enlightened-assistance from maybe the MSP Gun Registration gurus in Lansing? Sure...but YOU can't get hold of these folks, they CAN.

Hope their "expert" doesn't use a vacation day or something.

DreamWeaver88
01-18-2006, 00:47
That's sucks that they are so clueless where you took it. I took my Vector AK underfolder (26" folded) in to my local PD and got it registered as a pistol with no problem. Your AK pistol looks more like a pistol than mine does, that's for sure.

I would definitely be pissed that they kept it. I hope everything goes well for you when you go back.

DW

10 Ring Tao
01-18-2006, 14:37
Well, I went back in this morning, and it went about like I expected. After waiting another half hour for some simple paperwork to be drawn up, they begrudgingly gave it back.

I have never felt so much like a criminal for trying to follow the law. If I wasn't sure before, it sure is apparent how much easier it would be to just ignore the whole shebang.

When I asked what the problem was that caused all this, all the cadet could tell me was that there were more than one serial number. Once again I had to politely explain the difference between a number for parts matching, and the serial number of the actual gun/receiver according to the ATF. The look, bordering on blank, told me I was wasting my time.

He then asked what this [gun] was for as he handed it to me, basically asking the age old, "why do you need this thing?", along with a questioning look. It caught me off guard, and I simply told him it was yet another toy. I said that was an interesting question, and he sheepishly answered that he'd never seen anything like it.

So, I asked for my tax payer funded gun locks, and left.

Of course, my gun was in pieces. I assume their "firearms expert" had to check to see if it were full auto.

I mean, honestly, if I had something illegal, or had illegal intentions, would I really be that colossal of an idiot to bring it in to them?

I'm still in awe of their lack of understanding when it comes to very basic firearms law. I'm not talking complicated NFA regs here, I'm talking basic location of a serial number and recognizing a pistol vs. rifle. I still can't believe the Lt was feeding me lines about not being qualified to say if it was a pistol or rifle, "Because it sure looks like a rifle to me".

And then we have their attitude when dealing with me. It was their lack of understanding and ignorance that caused this problem, with me bring 100% legal, yet I was inconvenienced and treated as though I was trying to do something wrong. Does anyone else understand where my feelings of injustice are coming from? I want so badly to not have a chip on my shoulder when dealing with the police in simple matters of following the law, but if this isn't negative reinforcement, I don't know what is.

Don't ask me why, but I expected better from west bloomfield PD.

4eyes
01-18-2006, 14:52
We already have a national registration. Why don't you guys work to overturn the state registration.

gsbell
01-18-2006, 15:23
Originally posted by 4eyes
We already have a national registration. Why don't you guys work to overturn the state registration.

What national gun registration are you talking about?
And to the second, we are.

gsbell
01-18-2006, 15:24
10 Ring,
I hear you, I'd be pissed to.

4eyes
01-18-2006, 18:38
Originally posted by gsbell
What national gun registration are you talking about?


Every firearm that passes through an ffl dealer has a FBI/Homeland Security check on the purchaser. If you really think that info is deleted within 24 hours, say Hi to Alice when she skips down the street.

gsbell
01-18-2006, 20:12
4eyes,
I hear you. I don't want to believe that but you are probably right.

4TS&W
01-18-2006, 20:46
You have to register your guns? ;P

I don't think I could bring myself to do that. ;g ;c

betyourlife
01-18-2006, 20:51
I saw some cop call a springfield XD a glock the other day. He looks at it and says, Yep, it's a Glock.;g

gsbell
01-18-2006, 21:04
Originally posted by 4TS&W
You have to register your guns? ;P

I don't think I could bring myself to do that. ;g ;c
Handguns, and yes I cringe everytime.

johnstrr
01-18-2006, 21:31
[$

10 Ring Tao
01-18-2006, 21:41
Originally posted by johnstrr
[$

This what you're looking for?

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=482574

umc
01-18-2006, 22:28
Originally posted by 10 Ring Tao
Does anyone else understand where my feelings of injustice are coming from?

Yes I do and that's why I asked this in the other thread:

Originally posted by umc
10 ring,

How did your police department like that when you brought it in for registration?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Needless to say, I'm extremely disappointed in west bloomfield PD, and my confidence in LE has been more or less permanently damaged.

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=5604888


It's plain BS, bottom line and I think I would have told them to F off when they said they were going to keep it and demand that they had it back over.

Not sure how well that would have went over but as I understand it, it's a felony to loan your pistol to anyone. Yeah, they say well that doesn't apply to the police but I haven't seen that law.

Anyway, you got it back and all is well. I'm pissed for you as well man because I can't stand taking my pistols in to the PD and dealing with their ignorance.

We do need to push to change the law here in having to register our pistols. Registration does lead to confiscation you know, just look at San Fransisco.

M2 Carbine
01-19-2006, 00:01
I would have at least given them a little dig like. "I can't believe that a police officer doesn't know the difference between a pistol and a rifle".

This whole registration BS is for the birds in the first place.:(


-----------------------------------------------------------------
"4eyes
Every firearm that passes through an ffl dealer has a FBI/Homeland Security check on the purchaser."
------------------------------------------------------------------

Not unless the Feds checked the dealer's records after I left.:)

JasonZX6R
01-19-2006, 01:50
Wow you guys seem to have all kinds of problems with the registration. My registration was simple and painless (tho it was just a glock). I had a bit more trouble with the purchase permit and the deputy just acting bored and not very helpfull. But if I sat at a window answering stupid stuff all day I prob would be the same way. Its not like we can go to another place if we dont like the customer service!

I dont mind the registration system, it can be helpful in a number of ways. If you get a warrant out for assult with a deadly weapon or manslaughter etc. The cops know that you are prob pretty heavily armed by the number of guns registered to you. So they come with the SWAT to serve that warrant.

I'd actually like to see a national balistics registration done for firearms. You would take it in to register it and they fire some rounds and save the bullets for a balistics database to use to check on guns used in crimes. Kinda like fingerprinting is now.

mrwiggins
01-19-2006, 02:54
screw registering it.

gsbell
01-19-2006, 05:04
Originally posted by JasonZX6R
I'd actually like to see a national balistics registration done for firearms. You would take it in to register it and they fire some rounds and save the bullets for a balistics database to use to check on guns used in crimes. Kinda like fingerprinting is now.
Please tell me you are kidding ;P





PS You've been watching too much CSI

Hailstorm
01-19-2006, 06:11
First off, I would contact Jim. I think he would have fun with this one.


To the above posts. You are ok with a system that keeps tabs on you. If the information was used properly theres no problem. However, we are talking about the government. Who can't get most things right. We have a couple of cities that don't even have their own police and fire departments because they can't handle their money right. Yet, you trust these same cities with your information.



It also doesn't help that the first guns laws are word for word the same as the Nazi laws that took the guns from the Jews.

Sry way off topic;g

JasonZX6R
01-19-2006, 06:44
So your saying that someone broke in your house and killed someone in your family that you go around and wipe down every surface so they could not get a fingerprint of the perp? That the fingerprint database isnt worth keeping and using to find people?

Only people who were intent on breaking the law would be afraid of a registration system.

Yes CSI is a pretty good show but havent watched it for a couple years.

Originally posted by gsbell
Please tell me you are kidding ;P





PS You've been watching too much CSI

JasonZX6R
01-19-2006, 06:53
Originally posted by Hailstorm
To the above posts. You are ok with a system that keeps tabs on you. If the information was used properly theres no problem. However, we are talking about the government. Who can't get most things right. We have a couple of cities that don't even have their own police and fire departments because they can't handle their money right. Yet, you trust these same cities with your information.



It also doesn't help that the first guns laws are word for word the same as the Nazi laws that took the guns from the Jews.



As if the government doesnt have a ton of information that we unknowingly trust them with already? They have your fingerprints. They have your address, the value of your home, how many and what types of vehicles you drive along with a VIN of that vehicle. They know your current credit score. They know your driving habits. There is a lot more the government knows or could know about you than most people give thought to. But taking your gun that you legally own and that you will legally use and getting a balistics test done on it is too much? What if its already being done and you dont even know about it? Ever wonder where those 2 (or more) bullets go that glock test fires?

I guess I shouldnt register my car so the cops wont know who I am when I run from them from some illegal thing I am not going to do.

I am not advocating removing guns from any group or class of people (its done anyway with felons and the national background checks) I am just advocating a system to find people who use guns in an illegal manner.

Hailstorm
01-19-2006, 06:55
Nope, didn't say that. I said if it was used properly I have no problems. I have no issue with crime labs using the info. Its other departments putting their finger into the mix.

"Only people who were intent on breaking the law would be afraid of a registration system."
Wrong, its also people who remember what happened in Germany. First registration, then confiscation. Thats the way it went. Thats my fear.

I am also for the fact that bad people should not have guns. Plus since when are things used properly in the government. Think social security. Anyway, All I ment was I don't like it being used by people that keep their own crap in line. Period. Not saying anything else like we should not have anything preventing asshats from getting guns.

Glock23Man
01-19-2006, 07:03
Normally, I wouldn't respond to what seems like an obvious troll, but what the hell...

Ballistics databases have been proven to be essentially worthless in the states that have implemented them. After all, if you were a bad guy or someone selling guns to bad guys, wouldn't you just change out the barrel to avoid having the gun linked to the database?

The reason gun owners are wary of any kind of firearms registration is because it often eventually leads to confiscation. Beyond that, if there were a centralized list of gunowners, how long do you think it would be until an antigun president proposed a yearly tax or fee on those gun owners to help offset the cost of gun crime. This would certainly be much easier than suing gun companies.

Laws based on good intentions rather than good sense never work. This is a good thing to keep in mind when you think about things like gun databases or registration.

Regards,
SM

Originally posted by JasonZX6R
So your saying that someone broke in your house and killed someone in your family that you go around and wipe down every surface so they could not get a fingerprint of the perp? That the fingerprint database isnt worth keeping and using to find people?

Only people who were intent on breaking the law would be afraid of a registration system.

Yes CSI is a pretty good show but havent watched it for a couple years.

Glock23Man
01-19-2006, 07:09
Where do you live that the government has your fingerprints? Since I don't have a class 3 license or CCW and I'm not a convicted felon, no government agency that I'm aware of has my fingerprints and to my knowledge, I've never been fingerprinted.


Originally posted by JasonZX6R
As if the government doesnt have a ton of information that we unknowingly trust them with already? They have your fingerprints. They have your address, the value of your home, how many and what types of vehicles you drive along with a VIN of that vehicle. They know your current credit score. They know your driving habits. There is a lot more the government knows or could know about you than most people give thought to. But taking your gun that you legally own and that you will legally use and getting a balistics test done on it is too much? What if its already being done and you dont even know about it? Ever wonder where those 2 (or more) bullets go that glock test fires?

I guess I shouldnt register my car so the cops wont know who I am when I run from them from some illegal thing I am not going to do.

I am not advocating removing guns from any group or class of people (its done anyway with felons and the national background checks) I am just advocating a system to find people who use guns in an illegal manner.

JasonZX6R
01-19-2006, 07:13
If you required replacement barrels to only go through a FFL and be tagged to a serial number of the gun then they could be tracked.

I wasnt trolling to get anyone upset.

And yes not everything is perfect or used properly all the time.

There are faults to everything in life nothing is perfect and never will be. You have to weigh out what the good will be vs the bad. I am all for gun ownership. I would like to have military weapons to be able to be bought by qualified people. I wouldnt mind shooting a MP5 or simular weapon but I cant.

If balistics could be used much like what fingerprints are now wouldnt you be in favor of such a system? I would.

JasonZX6R
01-19-2006, 07:15
Originally posted by Glock23Man
Where do you live that the government has your fingerprints? Since I don't have a class 3 license or CCW and I'm not a convicted felon, no government agency that I'm aware of has my fingerprints and to my knowledge, I've never been fingerprinted.

Have you ever been arrested? (doesnt have to be a conviction)

When I was young we had all these things in school and various other places where the sheriffs office would come and fingerprint everyone in case we were kidnapped etc etc.. These were probably used in other ways later in life but I dont remember anyone refusing them as they were authority figures.

b8es_
01-19-2006, 08:37
JasonZX6R, if you want the govt to keep tabs on everything you do, you should look at moving to Great Britain.

M2 Carbine
01-19-2006, 09:20
Originally posted by JasonZX6R
Wow you guys seem to have all kinds of problems with the registration. My registration was simple and painless (tho it was just a glock). I had a bit more trouble with the purchase permit and the deputy just acting bored and not very helpfull. But if I sat at a window answering stupid stuff all day I prob would be the same way. Its not like we can go to another place if we dont like the customer service!

I dont mind the registration system, it can be helpful in a number of ways. If you get a warrant out for assult with a deadly weapon or manslaughter etc. The cops know that you are prob pretty heavily armed by the number of guns registered to you. So they come with the SWAT to serve that warrant.

I'd actually like to see a national balistics registration done for firearms. You would take it in to register it and they fire some rounds and save the bullets for a balistics database to use to check on guns used in crimes. Kinda like fingerprinting is now.

;z ;z ;z
I hope you are just trolling, I'd hate to think someone is that naive.

Glock23Man
01-19-2006, 09:40
I don't think you were trolling to get anyone upset. I DO think that you've bought into too many gun control myths though.

So, you would like to have to pay extra to be able to replace a worn or damaged barrel in your gun? Do you honestly think that this would impact firearm crime?

Ballistics cannot be used like fingerprints, because unlike fingerprints, the ballistics "fingerprint" of a firearm can be changed relatively easily, even without swapping barrels. Just take a rat tail file on one pass through any gun barrel and the ballistic "fingerprint" of the barrel is changed completely. So, should we also make people buy files through an FFL?

These might sound like "common sense" gun laws, but remember, they are being proposed by people who aren't "all for gun ownership." In fact, the people at the Brady Campaign and Violence Policy Center would eventually like to disarm you completely, including hunting weapons and TOY guns. (New York mayor Mike Bloomberg has proposed this and it is being attempted in the U.K.) They know they can't do this all at once, so they're trying to do it incrementally.

Why do you think they tried so hard to get the assault weapons ban renewed, even though "assault weapons" are used in less than two percent of gun crimes and the VPC's Tom Diaz admitted that the ban had no effect on gun violence?

The goal is to make firearms more difficult for law abiding people to buy and less socially acceptable to own. Eventually, the VPC and Brady Campaign hope firearms ownership will drop to the point where outlawing guns will be possible. If you think this is paranoia, take a trip to the VPC website.

I'm a firearms enthusiast who happens to be a Democrat and have acquaintances who have worked for antigun politicians and groups. I know what I'm talking about.


SM


Originally posted by JasonZX6R
If you required replacement barrels to only go through a FFL and be tagged to a serial number of the gun then they could be tracked.

I wasnt trolling to get anyone upset.

And yes not everything is perfect or used properly all the time.

There are faults to everything in life nothing is perfect and never will be. You have to weigh out what the good will be vs the bad. I am all for gun ownership. I would like to have military weapons to be able to be bought by qualified people. I wouldnt mind shooting a MP5 or simular weapon but I cant.

If balistics could be used much like what fingerprints are now wouldnt you be in favor of such a system? I would.

JasonZX6R
01-19-2006, 09:57
I am by no means an expert on firearms but you have shown how I am in error on simple things.

I just bought my first handgun this past year. I think if there were more info on guns as we grow up other than guns are bad dont touch them, we would have a more gun approving society. Kind of like if we talked and taught more about sex w would have less unwanted pregnancies.

10 Ring Tao
01-19-2006, 12:14
Originally posted by JasonZX6R
I am by no means an expert on firearms but you have shown how I am in error on simple things.


Good, this means you're open to realizing the depth of your naivete. Do some reading on the huge failure of "ballisitc fingerprinting" in maryland. Not a single crime solved despite multimillions of dollars. Keep in mind that maryland is typical of every other ballistic fingerprinting program that has been attempted:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=RJy&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=ballistic+fingerprinting+failure+maryland&spell=1

And take a stroll through history, paying attention to how without exception, registration does indeed lead to confiscation, with particular focus on california, canada, and the UK:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=Z0I&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=registration+leads+to+confiscation&spell=1

Now, read through the GunFacts compilation, it should take care of any other major misconceptions you're harboring.

http://gunfacts.info/

4TS&W
01-19-2006, 12:24
Originally posted by 10 Ring Tao
And take a stroll through history, paying attention to how without exception, registration does indeed lead to confiscation, with particular focus on california, canada, and the UK:

..and Australia... and about a million other places...

and doing the same thing over and over and still expecting a different result is called *WHAT* now?

;Q

PDogSniper
01-19-2006, 21:31
Originally posted by JasonZX6R

I'd actually like to see a national balistics registration done for firearms. You would take it in to register it and they fire some rounds and save the bullets for a balistics database to use to check on guns used in crimes. Kinda like fingerprinting is now.

;Q Actually, there's two states to the east that have this and the police adamately admit that it's worthless... IIRC, there's only been one case where it helped to capture a criminal...

umc
01-20-2006, 14:42
http://www.jpfo.org/allinfavor.gif

bassplayer
01-20-2006, 21:59
... Does anyone else understand where my feelings of injustice are coming from? I want so badly to not have a chip on my shoulder when dealing with the police in simple matters of following the law, but if this isn't negative reinforcement, I don't know what is.

Don't ask me why, but I expected better from west bloomfield PD. [/B]


Don't you know that you are guilty until proven innocent in this country??? ;g ;g ;g

TheXXFiles
01-22-2006, 08:37
How about a picture?

10 Ring Tao
01-22-2006, 13:36
Originally posted by TheXXFiles
How about a picture?

Theres a link on the first page.

GIJoeCam
01-24-2006, 13:54
Originally posted by JasonZX6R


If balistics could be used much like what fingerprints are now wouldnt you be in favor of such a system? I would.

Nope. If tire tracks were like fingerprints, would you want those used to follow up on vehicles that run from the law? Forget about stop-sticks and high-speed persuits. Place simple tread readers in the roads at every intersection, pick up the tread off the car, and arrest the owner later, right? WRONG!!!

Tire treads can be manipulated the same way bullet markings can be. They are not a unique fingerprint like you or I have. They are not unique to the individual gun, the same way that tire treads are not unique to the vehicle they're on.

Now, lets say hypothetically, there was some type of unique, gun-specific, un-alterable marking left behind at the scene of any shooting. Would I be in favor of it then? Nope. The answer's still NO. The gun is not a part of my person. Maybe I'm anit-establishment... I'm OK with that.

-Joe

jonathon
01-24-2006, 23:20
Someone showed me this thread.. and I got one thing to say..

Theres a reason why a lot of us don't trust the vast majority of LE, and this is why. They want us to respect them, they've got to treat us like citizens rather than subjects. That starts with being educated about laws.

I've got to say, in my area there are several LEO's that I trust and respect, but far from the majority. Especially in Vancouver(WA) and Portland(OR).

mrwiggins
01-25-2006, 00:26
i have alot of friends that are policemen, but i have to say, there are alot of reasons that people don't like policemen, i definately have mine, and this post really pissed me off too. here's my top 5 of why i don't trust alot of LEO's
1.most LEO are from lower income to middle income familys, lower intelligence classes.it's a proven fact though this isn't all, it's majority, look it up if you don't believe me and thats why the pay sucks

2.not everyone is treated the same.... bad days, cops pull you over and give you a hard time, unless you a pretty girl, then a body out the back of your car is reasonable as long as he gets some didgits

3.some people get a gun and a badge, and all of a sudden they are on a power trip.... no one likes a bully

4.abuse of power... did you really need to use your light bar and all that crap just to go through that red light?
5.they are corruptable, just like everyone else

wizzi01
01-25-2006, 18:19
Originally posted by mrwiggins
i have alot of friends that are policemen, but i have to say, there are alot of reasons that people don't like policemen, i definately have mine, and this post really pissed me off too. here's my top 5 of why i don't trust alot of LEO's
1.most LEO are from lower income to middle income familys, lower intelligence classes.it's a proven fact though this isn't all, it's majority, look it up if you don't believe me and thats why the pay sucks

2.not everyone is treated the same.... bad days, cops pull you over and give you a hard time, unless you a pretty girl, then a body out the back of your car is reasonable as long as he gets some didgits

3.some people get a gun and a badge, and all of a sudden they are on a power trip.... no one likes a bully

4.abuse of power... did you really need to use your light bar and all that crap just to go through that red light?
5.they are corruptable, just like everyone else




Isn't Louisiana a constible state? You take a test, pass it and your are a cop? No academy required.

mike23
01-26-2006, 04:39
Originally posted by 45acp4me
Hauptmann6 is right, call the office of Mike Cox ASAP and give Jim Simmons a call, both should be able to help.

It's important to notify them. If there's no follow through, then the situation can't be corrected. There are many pro-gun politicians in Michigan. Maybe your state congressman is; you should find out.

COBRA90GT
01-26-2006, 07:14
Originally posted by mrwiggins
...i have alot of friends that are policemen...


Why is that every "cop basher" always states the above? ;z

It's like when a racist says "I have friends of the opposite race, but that doesn't mean I hate all ____ people."


`l

mikeb9550
01-26-2006, 15:08
Most of the Cops that I have met were pretty cool but you have to be sceptical of everyone, especially when they have great power entrusted to them. Police have to remember to uphold the law and leave the law writting to our elected officials. My first hand experience was 15 years ago when the police had it out for my buddy. They knew he was driving his mustang on a suspended licence but couldnt catch him. One day I was over his house and we were going somewhere. He wanted to take his car since he just got done doing some stuff to it. I drove and that was the entention since I dont like walking home (if he got pulled over while driving). Well, I pulled out and their was a LEO parked down the street. I was driving and he pulled me over. He said that he watched us switch seats while in the car. 2 200 lb guys switched seats in a mustang GT that was a stick/center column. Ended up walking home anyway that day but atleast it wasnt far. The cop told the judge this and he also beleived him. Buddy had it coming but got hit with a bogus charge. Judge should have thown it out of court but since my buddy had prior history with driving offenses, well he hit him hard.

metroplex
09-22-2006, 20:19
My local PD didn't give me any trouble for registering the PS90. However, the Lt did call up someone and was on the phone for awhile trying to see what he should do with the carbine. I guess they all missed the AG's opinion that a rifle with a shoulder stock and barrel of at least 16" long that measures between 26" and 30" with the stock folded/contracted is considered a pistol in MI and must be registered as a pistol.

I even called MSP and Debbie Smith (the firearms lady at the MSP) said the carbine, registered as a pistol, can be treated as a pistol in MI. With a valid CCW, you could keep it in the passenger compartment of your vehicle fully loaded (like a pistol). I did not ask her about conceal carry (LOL) but I would advise you to get on the horn with the AG (Mike Cox) and the MSP. It sounds like Bloomfield PD has a bunch of morons working the firearms inspection area.

ducati
09-24-2006, 06:49
Don't you people relize it is not a handgun regestration. It is a safety inspection. I am amazed that some of the idiots they have doing the safety inspetion have a hard time understanding which end the bullet comes out of...
Remember safety inspection, not regestration...

Fritzer
09-25-2006, 09:32
Originally posted by ducati
Remember safety inspection, not regestration...

I truly hope THAT was sarcasm - But didn't see a smiley ;) ;)

Registering pistols on two different visits to my local Sherriff dept - they recorded the WRONG serial number. I caught it myself ONCE, and the State Police records department detected the other one.

This is just clerical work at the Sherriff's office. Remember to check their work.

Regards,
Fritz.

Blitzer
09-25-2006, 10:54
Originally posted by 10 Ring Tao
Well, I went back in this morning, and it went about like I expected. After waiting another half hour for some simple paperwork to be drawn up, they begrudgingly gave it back.

I have never felt so much like a criminal for trying to follow the law. If I wasn't sure before, it sure is apparent how much easier it would be to just ignore the whole shebang.

When I asked what the problem was that caused all this, all the cadet could tell me was that there were more than one serial number. Once again I had to politely explain the difference between a number for parts matching, and the serial number of the actual gun/receiver according to the ATF. The look, bordering on blank, told me I was wasting my time.

He then asked what this [gun] was for as he handed it to me, basically asking the age old, "why do you need this thing?", along with a questioning look. It caught me off guard, and I simply told him it was yet another toy. I said that was an interesting question, and he sheepishly answered that he'd never seen anything like it.

So, I asked for my tax payer funded gun locks, and left.

Of course, my gun was in pieces. I assume their "firearms expert" had to check to see if it were full auto.

I mean, honestly, if I had something illegal, or had illegal intentions, would I really be that colossal of an idiot to bring it in to them?

I'm still in awe of their lack of understanding when it comes to very basic firearms law. I'm not talking complicated NFA regs here, I'm talking basic location of a serial number and recognizing a pistol vs. rifle. I still can't believe the Lt was feeding me lines about not being qualified to say if it was a pistol or rifle, "Because it sure looks like a rifle to me".

And then we have their attitude when dealing with me. It was their lack of understanding and ignorance that caused this problem, with me bring 100% legal, yet I was inconvenienced and treated as though I was trying to do something wrong. Does anyone else understand where my feelings of injustice are coming from? I want so badly to not have a chip on my shoulder when dealing with the police in simple matters of following the law, but if this isn't negative reinforcement, I don't know what is.

Don't ask me why, but I expected better from west bloomfield PD.


Hve a good day comrade Tao, welcome to communist Michagan! :shocked: :sad: :soap:

Lumpy_3
09-25-2006, 15:49
Originally posted by 10 Ring Tao
Well, I went back in this morning, and it went about like I expected. After waiting another half hour for some simple paperwork to be drawn up, they begrudgingly gave it back.

I have never felt so much like a criminal for trying to follow the law. If I wasn't sure before, it sure is apparent how much easier it would be to just ignore the whole shebang.

When I asked what the problem was that caused all this, all the cadet could tell me was that there were more than one serial number. Once again I had to politely explain the difference between a number for parts matching, and the serial number of the actual gun/receiver according to the ATF. The look, bordering on blank, told me I was wasting my time.

He then asked what this [gun] was for as he handed it to me, basically asking the age old, "why do you need this thing?", along with a questioning look. It caught me off guard, and I simply told him it was yet another toy. I said that was an interesting question, and he sheepishly answered that he'd never seen anything like it.

So, I asked for my tax payer funded gun locks, and left.

Of course, my gun was in pieces. I assume their "firearms expert" had to check to see if it were full auto.

I mean, honestly, if I had something illegal, or had illegal intentions, would I really be that colossal of an idiot to bring it in to them?

I'm still in awe of their lack of understanding when it comes to very basic firearms law. I'm not talking complicated NFA regs here, I'm talking basic location of a serial number and recognizing a pistol vs. rifle. I still can't believe the Lt was feeding me lines about not being qualified to say if it was a pistol or rifle, "Because it sure looks like a rifle to me".

And then we have their attitude when dealing with me. It was their lack of understanding and ignorance that caused this problem, with me bring 100% legal, yet I was inconvenienced and treated as though I was trying to do something wrong. Does anyone else understand where my feelings of injustice are coming from? I want so badly to not have a chip on my shoulder when dealing with the police in simple matters of following the law, but if this isn't negative reinforcement, I don't know what is.

Don't ask me why, but I expected better from west bloomfield PD.

Do this one time. And it wont be a problem. Take in your receiver and register it. I did this in Wyoming, Michigan. With ar-15 pistols and ak-47 pistols. Just the receiver and nothing else.

ducati
09-25-2006, 16:50
Pull out one of the green cards you are issued. At the top in bold letters "SAFETY INSPECTION CERTIFICATE" No place on the card does it say regestration, but we know better.

douglasd
09-28-2006, 08:29
Originally posted by 4eyes
Every firearm that passes through an ffl dealer has a FBI/Homeland Security check on the purchaser. If you really think that info is deleted within 24 hours, say Hi to Alice when she skips down the street.

Are you talking about the NICS check phone call? If so, in Michigan that is no longer required for those with a CPL obtained after last November. Some FFL's still make the phone call, but it's not required.

Of course, if you have an older CPL, or none at all, they still have to make the call.

nu2carry
09-30-2006, 20:21
Corrected...

10 Ring Tao
03-05-2007, 19:58
I came across this again, and realized I hadn't posted the 'receipt' they gave me.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm104/10RingTao/gun%20stuff/akreceipt.jpg

umc
03-05-2007, 20:08
Wow, just frickin, wow!!

Not only is that a very professional receipt but you had your firearm registered whooops, I mean inspected by an inspection expert.

OMFG, that is just hilarious.

mrwiggins
03-05-2007, 20:30
as long as it has both the buyer and sellers drivers license # and the guns information it's enough.

10 Ring Tao
03-06-2007, 03:23
Originally posted by mrwiggins
as long as it has both the buyer and sellers drivers license # and the guns information it's enough.

Huh?

mrwiggins
03-06-2007, 12:03
for a private party sale. you really don't even need a reciept.

COBRA90GT
03-06-2007, 16:59
Originally posted by 10 Ring Tao
...I came across this again...


So did you voice your concern up the chain of command at WBPD?

If your beef is with the cadets, let the administration know. If it's with the records clerks, firearms expert, etc, again, let the admin know about it.

Have you requested a meeting with the chief?

brucek
03-06-2007, 22:49
Originally posted by Glock23Man
Where do you live that the government has your fingerprints?.

Up until a few years ago you were fingerprinted for a Michigan Purchase Permit. Your thumb print was on all copies of the permit. FHPD printed me every time I applied for a permit. This was in the 80's and early 90's IIRC!

The truth in the matter here is that the gummint knows who bought every firearm legally purchased through an FFL. If anyone thinks that the NICS databased is purged every 24 hours then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell them!

--
BruceK :steamed:

mike23
03-11-2007, 17:06
Originally posted by brucek
Up until a few years ago you were fingerprinted for a Michigan Purchase Permit. Your thumb print was on all copies of the permit. FHPD printed me every time I applied for a permit. This was in the 80's and early 90's IIRC!

The truth in the matter here is that the gummint knows who bought every firearm legally purchased through an FFL. If anyone thinks that the NICS databased is purged every 24 hours then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell them!

--
BruceK :steamed:

I remember these! I had a CCW years ago that had my thumb print on it (late 80's).

Blitzer
03-11-2007, 21:19
Originally posted by JasonZX6R
Have you ever been arrested? (doesnt have to be a conviction)

When I was young we had all these things in school and various other places where the sheriffs office would come and fingerprint everyone in case we were kidnapped etc etc.. These were probably used in other ways later in life but I dont remember anyone refusing them as they were authority figures.

The frigging Socialists & Communists have been busy. Pre-programmed mindless little sheep are being finger printed, no law, regulation or actual authority exists to allow such a breach of civil rights but everyone goes along with the plan because "He is an authority figure so it must be OK for him to do it!"

:shocked: :rant: :moonie: :soap:

10 Ring Tao
04-12-2007, 12:27
Originally posted by COBRA90GT
So did you voice your concern up the chain of command at WBPD?

If your beef is with the cadets, let the administration know. If it's with the records clerks, firearms expert, etc, again, let the admin know about it.

Have you requested a meeting with the chief?

Honestly? No, I haven't. My confidence has been shaken to the point that I'm simply afraid of harassment and/or retribution from bored suburban cops (mentioned above).

I will be in west bloomfield for at least a couple more years, and don't want any problems for my family or I, until I've left.

opr1945
04-25-2007, 20:34
All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.

hakuin
04-29-2007, 16:46
10 Ring...Did they take your gun AGAIN??? This was resolved (I thought) on January 18th of 2006 when you got your gun back & signed-up.

Or are we still chewing on the issue?

10 Ring Tao
04-29-2007, 18:48
Originally posted by hakuin
10 Ring...Did they take your gun AGAIN??? This was resolved (I thought) on January 18th of 2006 when you got your gun back & signed-up.

Or are we still chewing on the issue?

I resurected the thread by adding a scan of the sham of a receipt they gave me.

hakuin
04-29-2007, 19:01
Yes, that's a piss-poor receipt. Not very official-looking.

Chui
05-02-2007, 13:47
Originally posted by wizzi01
Isn't Louisiana a constible state? You take a test, pass it and your are a cop? No academy required.

City Constables do go thru the Police Academy. I think it's 16 weeks. My sister is one.

mrwiggins
05-02-2007, 20:59
forget it. after reading this, i'm never letting a policeman take my gun, much less go try to register something.

Blitzer
05-02-2007, 21:48
Originally posted by JasonZX6R
As if the government doesnt have a ton of information that we unknowingly trust them with already? They have your fingerprints. They have your address, the value of your home, how many and what types of vehicles you drive along with a VIN of that vehicle. They know your current credit score. They know your driving habits. There is a lot more the government knows or could know about you than most people give thought to. But taking your gun that you legally own and that you will legally use and getting a balistics test done on it is too much? What if its already being done and you dont even know about it? Ever wonder where those 2 (or more) bullets go that glock test fires?

I guess I shouldnt register my car so the cops wont know who I am when I run from them from some illegal thing I am not going to do.

I am not advocating removing guns from any group or class of people (its done anyway with felons and the national background checks) I am just advocating a system to find people who use guns in an illegal manner.

Only if you have been finger printed before "they" have your prints on file.