A Question From WalterGA

[ColoradoGlocker]

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[Alphaman]

Originally posted by ColoradoGlocker
WalterGA is having a problem with his comped 45-10MM barrel in his std slide G21. We have been discussing his extraction issues and he had tried all of the tuning ideas I have yet he still is having extraction failures.

Question for you other 45-10MM fans. Do any of you use your conversion barrel with a std lenght slide? If so, have you had extraction problems? If not, could you share your experiences with me using your std length slides?

Thanks

Hello,

I guess I'll chime in. BTW, tell that old dirty bastid hello! I think we talked about my experience with the 45-10 barrel about 6 months ago. I have since sold my G21 and my 45-10 barrel. I bought a G20 simply because I didn't like relying on a conversion barrel. I've had KKM conversion barrels for shooting 9mm out of my .40's too but always ended up selling and just buying the 9mm guns for the same reason. I like to use factory Glock parts. Anyway, I used the KKM 45-10 barrel in a standard G21 slide and never had any issues at all. I always used the Double Tap full powered ammo. (155gr. and 180 gr.) and the cases were always thrown several feet clear of the gun. Actually the cases would come out with much more force than with my other calibers. I never tried any of the low powered "40-like" ammo. or any reloads. Is Walter using reloads? I have used some .45 ACP reloads in my G30 and I would have to rack the slide every time to get the empty case out of the chamber. I've never had this issue with factory ammo.. Find out what he's using for ammo. and if he's tried out good factory ammo.. I know Walter is a very knowledgable guy so I'm pretty sure there's probably not a simple solution to his problem. I would like to hear his symptoms and what he's already tried to solve his problem. BTW, is he still taking his daily dose of Paxil? I've heard that being on that stuff too long can fuc* up your thinking processes....LOL

[nickE10mm]

I talked to Walter about his problem a few months back and we had come to a tentative conclusion that, specifically, the high slide speed generated by full power loads in converted (45-10) pistols facilitates the most reliable extraction. This is because the extractor claw bearing surface on the cartridge case on a conversion setup is obviously less than the bearing surface with factory pistol extractors. That was the only thing we could think of since the compensated barrel might have been slowing the slide enough that reliable extraction wasn't happening any longer.

Still, it was just a hypothesis. Being that Steve posted this, I see Walter's still battling the problem, so I can make the assumption that he's probably tried a few nuclear loadings and is still experiencing the same issue.

An interesting point of mention. My G20L functions perfectly with mild to wild 10mm loadings. With the standard recoil spring weight coupled with the added 4-5 oz of slide weight, one could assume that I, also, would have the same problems. Fortunately, not so.

The mystery continues....

[1*45]

Depending on the amount of rounds? extractor could be chipped/worn, or weak extractor depressor plunger spring. Remember that on Gen 3 with LCI takes a different plunger bearing (spring loaded bearing post 2001).
Simplify the procedures. no extraction, change the part. Then move on to the next.
Hope this helps, Floyd

[nickE10mm]

Originally posted by 1*45
Depending on the amount of rounds? extractor could be chipped/worn, or weak extractor depressor plunger spring. Remember that on Gen 3 with LCI takes a different plunger bearing (spring loaded bearing post 2001).
Simplify the procedures. no extraction, change the part. Then move on to the next.
Hope this helps, Floyd

**Point to note** I have tried both versions of SLB's on my G20L; they both functioned fine. I guess he could try a new extractor plunger spring first and maybe a new extractor?

[Chuck TX]

I've found that crappy mags/weak mag springs cause more problems than normal since it's a .45 LCI extractor pulling a 10mm case, it's less forgiving. Tends to be the problem with some Desert Eagles too.

[nickE10mm]

I guess that could contribute, too.... I have all Wolff XP mag springs in all of my mags but I didnt initially and never had problems then.

Still, good idea.

[ColoradoGlocker]

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[nickE10mm]

hmmm....

Well, keep us posted. I'm curious now.... ;g

[1*45]

Please note something on this delema, that you are wanting to use a 45 LCI extractor to grab a 10MM case out of the barrel. Please if you get a chance check the reach on a 10MM LCI (or any 10MM extractor)versus a 45LCI extractor. I do not have one here at work but i believe the 10MM extractor may go into the chamber a bit deeper to grab more rim. Just a thought to mull over. Cheers Floyd

[nickE10mm]

Originally posted by 1*45
Please note something on this delema, that you are wanting to use a 45 LCI extractor to grab a 10MM case out of the barrel. Please if you get a chance check the reach on a 10MM LCI (or any 10MM extractor)versus a 45LCI extractor. I do not have one here at work but i believe the 10MM extractor may go into the chamber a bit deeper to grab more rim. Just a thought to mull over. Cheers Floyd

According to ColoradoGlocker's tests during his G20L development phase, he found that the .45 extractor had the best reach when using 10mm. I can't remember quite why but I remember seeing the photo diagrams indicating just that, at least from his experiences.

Maybe he can enlighten us again.

[bettysnephew]

Kind of a newbie here in this .45/10 conversion stuff, (thanks Steve) but my longslide has had no failures once past about 100 rounds. I do recall that on the stock 21, the slide has been considerably lightened as compared to the stock 20. Saw a picture of the difference once somewhere on the internet and it was easily seen. Possibly about 1/8" thickness of the sides. The slide weight does retard the barrel reaction to recoil hence also the extraction phase of the functioning of the total cycle. Just a thought, but has anyone weighed the difference between standard 20 and 21 slides?

[ColoradoGlocker]

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[ColoradoGlocker]

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[bettysnephew]

Steve and all:
Do you think that the 1.4 oz. difference is enough to slow/delay the unlocking of the barrel/slide and allow the pressure to drop enough to aid extraction? I know for a fact on my AR10, the extraction improved dramaticly when the weight of the recoil buffer was increased by just a couple of ounces. This allowed the cartridge case to shrink back to a smaller size before the action began to go into the extraction cycle. The gun did not beat up the cartridge rims nearly as bad. Could this also possibly apply to semi auto pistols? Besides Glock, Colt also increases slide weight on Delta Elite pistols vs. all other calibers.
David

[Chuck TX]

If one filed down the pad on the LCI extractor would it create any problems for use with the .45acp?

[ColoradoGlocker]

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[Chuck TX]

Cool, if I run into any problems with I'll give that a try. Hadn't really yet, but did with the old style extractor.

[ColoradoGlocker]

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[Rusty Phillips]

Originally posted by bettysnephew
Steve and all:
Do you think that the 1.4 oz. difference is enough to slow/delay the unlocking of the barrel/slide and allow the pressure to drop enough to aid extraction?

he has a comp and not a ported barrel - right?
I'm wondering how much his comp weighs
does he have problems with the comp on as well as off?

seems to me a heavy comp pushing (with a lot of high pressure gas) on the end of the barrel could have a bigger impact on unlocking & extraction than just the same amount of weight added to the slide

what are the loads he's playing with? for some reason I have this picture in my mind that they're probably pretty close to max but are they 135's, middle weights, or 180/200 grns?

I'm thinking perhaps a "nucular" 180 grain load would have less gas available to work the comp than a "nucular" 135 - right?

whatever the cause of the problem, Id be interested to hear what the cure is.

[ColoradoGlocker]

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