Some advice and opinions please

[Makoman]

Hey guy's. I'm seriously considering getting a 10mm in the next few months but I have a couple of questions. I don't know much about this round except for its reputation as being a wildly overpenetrating round, as a result I scratched the 10 off of my must have list. But thanks to all of you 10 owners postings here in the 10 ring, I'm starting to find out that isn't necesarrily true so the 10 bug has bitten me once again. I live in CA and occasionally go hunting and hiking and want something powerful enough to take down a blackie should the need ever arise. I was considering a .44 mag but I don't care for wheelguns, and now that I know the 10 can do this I'm all the more interested in getting one.

How does the 10 shoot? I had a .40 once & didn't care for it. For some reason every .40 I shoot with the exception of Berretta's Cougar seems to torque/twist in my hand when I shoot it. I know that there is someone here on GT that has posted the same complaint in one of the other forums so I know I'm not the only one. Guns in that chambering just don't seem to like me and I can't seem to get to like them. I'm hoping the 10 doesn't do this as well. I'd like to test fire one but as 10mm isn't that common or popular, none of my local ranges has one for me to test. Have any of you ever experienced this type of torqueing/twisting with the 10? What would you compare it's power to? A .357 mag perhaps?

What gun would you guy's recommend? I have a Colt 1911 .45 in my inventory right now and it's always been my favorite, probably because that's the gun that I basically learned to shoot on so I'm somewhat partial to the 1911 as a platform. I'm considering a Colt Delta or Kimber Eclipse. Anyone out there have any of these guns and thoughts on them for this chambering?

Your insight and advice are much appreciated.

[10-Hutt]

I've got a Glock 20 and I love it. I wouldn't characterize it as a torque or twist when it's fired, more of a push straight back (in my opinion). I do know the twist you are talking about though.

I also have a 1911 but it's chambered in .45 (Kimber Grand Raptor II). While I love the Kimber, I think I'd rather have the extra capacity of the Glock just in case the Mall Ninjas have decided to move in packs greater than 9.

As far as the Bear Hunting goes.... I'll summarize the entire thread on bears which should be made sticky. The responses will range from the 10mm can kill a polar bear to having difficulty putting down a sick kitten with the caveat being you have to manage shot placement. Then Once you've managed shot placement you can kill anything with a .22LR. After you've done that, they give you an official Mall Ninja Patch!

Seriously though, the 10mm is a great caliber to shoot and I don't regret buying it one bit. You may have trouble finding an approved 1911 in California due to their whacked out gun laws. For that matter, I guess you couldn't legally take advantage of the 15 round mags either so capacity differences become pretty much a wash.

Pick one up... It's calling you..

[Makoman]

Yea, I'm aware of the crazy CA gun laws. Kimber has 2 10mm that are "approved" for CA. As for a Delta Elite, I'd have to buy one from a private party within the state, can't import one from outside.

[ILikeFtLbs]

If you don't like the .40, I doubt you will like the 10mm. For that matter, you also wouldn't like the 9mm, .357 mag, .44 mag, and probably not the .45. From what you're telling me though, it sounds like your problem is with the guns and not the caliber. So keep looking at 1911s.

[Makoman]

If you don't like the .40, I doubt you will like the 10mm. For that matter, you also wouldn't like the 9mm, .357 mag, .44 mag, and probably not the .45. From what you're telling me though, it sounds like your problem is with the guns and not the caliber. So keep looking at 1911s.

I own several guns in several calibers and have bought and sold many more through the years. I can assure you, it's the caliber, not the guns; as I mentioned, I do not have this problem with the beretta. I've owned .357 and .44mags in the past and have no problems shooting them. I'm not recoil shy but as I also mentioned, I don't care for wheelguns very much anymore. I did once upon a time but as I got better with autos I started to not like wheelguns as much. Now I want something that will do the job I mentioned above but in an autoloader and I'm thinking the 10 is the way to go.

[ILikeFtLbs]

I wasn't trying to say that you're recoil shy. You said that you don't like the .40 except in the Beretta Cougar. That sounds like a gun problem, not a caliber problem. The Cougar is a totally different from most other guns including a Glock, 1911, Sig, or Beretta 96. The locking mechanism is a twisting barrel. You said Cougar just feels better to you.

I'm just warning you that if you don't like the feel of the .40, you won't like the 10mm unless it's in the auto you like... which you said is your 1911. The 10mm is the same bullet as the .40 only faster. If you think the .40 torques in your hand too much, the 10 will feel about the same in that same type of gun.

I think you'll be safe with a 1911.

[Makoman]

Sorry brother. Didn't mean to get defensive so I'm sorry If I did. I know about the beretta twisting barrel and figured that that's probably why I did better with that gun as well. I agree with you with the 1911 being my best bet though, I'm just trying to find out as much info as I can; a good 1911 like a kimber ain't exactly cheap so I want to be sure before I lay down my hard earned money. I've considered a G20 but the grip isn't the most comfortable for me and as I mentioned earlier, none of the ranges around me have one for rent let alone one chambered in a 1911 and no one I know has one for me to try either. My best bet thus far is to just keep on reading the posts here and on other forums to try and find out as much as possible.

Your feedback is appreciated.

[f4tweet]

It is futile to resist 10MM, you will be assimilated.

[kn38ms]

I own a G30(45 cal) and a G29(10mm) there is
very little difference in shooting characteristics (IMO)
other than the bigger BOOM the 29 makes;f
Recoil is alike until you start shooting
1700 fps. DT rounds. Than there will be a slight more flip
@ the muzzle. Too much BS hype about the
10mm being an uncontrolable beast.
BTW I am only 160# with small hands/ wrists.

[b8es_]

Im not so sure what the issue with "comfort" is with certain guns. I have a 1006 and if I had to pick a pistol that feels odd in my hand, it is it, but I can still shoot it ok. My 120# girlfriend can shoot my G20 with full power rounds, so the grip isnt that bulky or brick like. A Sig220 feels best in my hand best, but I strangely enough am not that good with mine, I shoot the bulky G20 better. If you are looking to use it possibly for bear defense, 16 rds in a G20 is better than 9 rds in a 1911. If you can afford it, get a G20 just for the hell of it if nothing else. A semi-auto with 16 rounds of 357mag powered rounds is pretty unique. Some people think of the Desert Eagle as some kind of hand cannon, the G20 is also a hand cannon, just alot more handy.

EDIT: You could also look at the full size 10mm Witness, alot of people really like those and they are high capacity as well. I have a compact and enjoy shooting it.

[fraglord]

Originally posted by ILikeFtLbs

I'm just warning you that if you don't like the feel of the .40, you won't like the 10mm unless it's in the auto you like... which you said is your 1911. The 10mm is the same bullet as the .40 only faster. If you think the .40 torques in your hand too much, the 10 will feel about the same in that same type of gun.

I think you'll be safe with a 1911.

I have to disagree strongly with this statement. I used to be a huge .40 fan and owned a G22,23, and 27 and a S&W 4006. Never quite got used to the recoil and never got really good accuracy but just thought I was an average shooter. .40 must be good, all the cops use it, right? Then one day I got a G30, and the difference was huge. The .45 has recoil, but it's a different type of recoil. It's hard to explain, but it is just easier to control(probably due to the larger frame). Then I got a G20, and was amazed that I could control loads that were much stronger than the .40 while also achieving better accuracy. Much better accuracy, in fact. The .40 recoil is harsh and accuracy is mediocre.

I have sold all four .40 pistols and have no interest in that caliber whatsoever. 10mm and .45 are vastly superior in my experience.

[Ten Pal]

My tip is: just buy a G20 and enjoy it! I had one, and I loved it a lot. I'm planning to buy another one, 3rd gen. :)

[Tito]

Originally posted by f4tweet
It is futile to resist 10MM, you will be assimilated.

+1

[ILikeFtLbs]

Some people may find this page interesting. The calculation is for "actual" recoil only which is determined by bullet weight, velocity, and firearm weight. "Perceived" recoil would be effected by the person's body weight, firearm design (ergonomics and spring power), how they hold the firearm, and their body position. It seems to me that some .40s will have more actual and perceived recoil than a 10mm, but also some 10mms will have more actual and perceived recoil than a .40. That's why it's important which firearm you go with.

http://www.shortmags.org/shortmags/smo-recoil.htm

[GlockJD]

I like the .40 recoil, IMHO 9mm has more pop or torqueing of the gun then the .40. I also like the .45 its more of a push then the snap a 9mm has(in the guns ive shot, havent shot a glock 9 yet) and the .40 seems to be the same to me. Accuracy is perfect with my G23 and my wife thinks so as well, shes laying claim to the G23 and buying me a G21:D Guess we are all a little different though:)

[nickE10mm]

I just thought I'd throw in my $.02

I, too, and quite partial to 1911's. In fact, they are my favorite type of handgun overall. I also LOVE glocks. Now we have that ouf of the way, I will make a few suggestions.

I own a Glock 20 3rd gen. I also have small hands. I have since converted it to a G20 Longslide. I love my Glock 20, there is no question about that.

I owned a Kimber Stainless Target II about six months ago. I LOVED my Stainless Target. It was, by far, my favorite 1911 and, at the time, favorite 10mm. I ended up selling it to fund my Longslide project... .i know i know, why didn't i sell a different gun? Well, another Kimber of mine has super sentimental value to me, so I was forced to choose. I would probably NOT make that same choice again. I miss my Kimber 10mm dearly.

I plan on picking up another 1911 in 10mm soon. I will be getting either another Kimber ST or a DW RZ.

The recoil seemed a little bit sharper with my Kimber than with the Glock. The Glock has a wider and larger circumference grip; plus, the Glock flexes during rcoil and that has quite an effect. Of course, if you are a 1911 lover, you know that a 1911's ergonomics simply make it easier to shoot accurately, regardless of recoil.

I suggest that if you like 1911's, get a Kimber Stainless Target. Mine was accurate, reliable, and gorgeous. Who needs more than 8 shots in a 10mm 1911?

Cheers and good luck on your quest.



ps.... Good choice in caliber. Us hunters, fishers and hikers love our 10mm for the duality implicit in the cartridge.

[Makoman]

I suggest that if you like 1911's, get a Kimber Stainless Target. Mine was accurate, reliable, and gorgeous. Who needs more than 8 shots in a 10mm 1911?

I think I will probably go with the Kimber nick, but the Eclipse. Pics that I see of that gun just give me wood.;a

[nickE10mm]

Originally posted by Makoman
I think I will probably go with the Kimber nick, but the Eclipse. Pics that I see of that gun just give me wood.;a

I simply prefer the adjustable sights and bead blasted stainless finish on the ST. I know you will be happy with either. (I would be worried I would scratch the Eclipse, however, when I look at it, I Understand the "wood" syndrome) :)

I can post some really nice pictures of mine later on after work when I get home later if you wish...

[Makoman]

That would be great. I'd like to see them.

[nickE10mm]

These pics were taken with a high dollar camera phone. They are still decent pics....

Enjoy

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/858/dsc000394ds.jpg

[nickE10mm]

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/8281/dsc000374iu.jpg

[nickE10mm]

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/9307/dsc000456zn.jpg

[10-Hutt]

Those are pretty nice pictures for coming off a Camera. The gun's not too shabby either. Is that a Sidearmor Holster? I just received a sidearmor for my G20 today.

[nickE10mm]

Thanks. The phone camera that took it was a Sony Ericsson S710. Holster is a sidearmor IWB and those are green Gunner Grips.

[Makoman]

That is sweet Nick. A really nice piece of steel if I do say so myself. Now I find myself debating between the Target and the Eclipse, especially since the Target comes standard with adjustable sights which I prefer.

[GlockJD]

1911's are so sexy, heh. I love shooting my glock but they sure dont have that sexiness of a nice 1911:)

[nickE10mm]

Originally posted by Makoman
That is sweet Nick. A really nice piece of steel if I do say so myself. Now I find myself debating between the Target and the Eclipse, especially since the Target comes standard with adjustable sights which I prefer.

Like I said, I had a really special relationship w/ my Target. I kick myself everytime I look at its picture. Get one, man!

:cool:

[bk30]

IIRC (this was some years back) the .40 has a pressure spike unlike any of the normal calibers from 9-45. Much sharper than other calibers and could be what many perceive as "more torque" or "harsh recoil". Whether thats still true today I don't know. I do know I sold everything relating to the .40 i owned several years ago and have never regreted it. I find the 10mm far more pleasant to shoot in both model Glocks and 1911s than the .40. just my 2 pennies :)

Originally posted by fraglord
I have to disagree strongly with this statement. I used to be a huge .40 fan and owned a G22,23, and 27 and a S&W 4006. Never quite got used to the recoil and never got really good accuracy but just thought I was an average shooter. .40 must be good, all the cops use it, right? Then one day I got a G30, and the difference was huge. The .45 has recoil, but it's a different type of recoil. It's hard to explain, but it is just easier to control(probably due to the larger frame). Then I got a G20, and was amazed that I could control loads that were much stronger than the .40 while also achieving better accuracy. Much better accuracy, in fact. The .40 recoil is harsh and accuracy is mediocre.

I have sold all four .40 pistols and have no interest in that caliber whatsoever. 10mm and .45 are vastly superior in my experience.

[CanyonMan]

Originally posted by 10-Hutt
.....As far as the Bear Hunting goes.... I'll summarize the entire thread on bears which should be made sticky. The responses will range from the 10mm can kill a polar bear to having difficulty putting down a sick kitten with the caveat being you have to manage shot placement. Then Once you've managed shot placement you can kill anything with a .22LR. After you've done that, they give you an official Mall Ninja Patch!

LOL! That's a good summary.

Recoil? That is different for everyone. IMHO the 10mm, in any size has none to worry about. As for the bears, get the 44mag. Get the ten to play with or hunt smaller game... Yes i know, everone has killed monsters with it, and (respectfully), my hat is off to those who have had a great hunt with one. Some of them are on GT, and friends of mine...... But, i would stay with small deer, at close range, on down. I do not think there is a real place for trying to take down Bears/Elk, etc, with a beefed up 40 S&W.

Yes i own some 10's, and they are fun to mess with, but not for larger game, IMHO. Regardless of what "has" been done with it. Deer have been killed with 22's, and so have men, but it would not be a good wise choice, to venture out with one for that purpose.

No offence to my bud's on here that do this now! ;f ;f ;f
Just my (probably worthless opinion) ;)

I like the Kimber, in fact i own one of those as well, it is a 45 auto though. ;) If you can handle the 45 auto Glock, i see no reason why you canot handle the 10mm Glock. It is a great gun, and you will love it, but don't tick the bears off with it. :)

Go with the 44mag, or 45LC if you are worried about bears!


CanyonMan

[ppro]

Better yet, leave the handguns home and tic off the bears with a rifle, and keep some distance if possible.

I don't know...if I was going to carry a handgun (and I have carried quite a number of different one's)I don't think I would feel a bit better with something attacking in close, with a 44 mag revolver vs the 10MM G20, with the hard linotype core, CorBon FMJ PENETRATOR'S.

Seems like you have time to "take the shot" or you don't, and when you don't, things happen so darned fast that instincts (read training here, if any) will take over and the result of the encounter WILL NOT depend on the difference between the Glock 20 or the 44 revolver being carried (assuming appropriate ammunition).

So, if you have time to take the shot, don't use the handgun (read, bear...) and if you don't have the time, don't worry which you choose to carry, just at least try to do high stress close in in rapid aquisition training, that will probably make much more difference (if anything will) in the outcome than the difference between the two guns.

Paul