Ducati Monster 620 or Suzuki SV650? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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freakshow10mm
02-08-2006, 09:22
I have a year under my belt. I don't ride stupid. Commuter/ pleasure rider. No expert, but confident enough to have the basic skills and possibly upgrade later this year (hopefully). Was looking at the naked bikes. SV650 caught my eye. Sweet looking bike. Ducati Monster 620 looks cool too. I have a thing for the dual exhaust; I like symmetry.

Both are similar in engine size. Don't know how much the Ducati goes for. I know the SV650 is around $5900. I heard reports the Ducati is $1K more than that. Ebay doesn't have any 620's so I can't compare used prices. Even a grand more is only $20 difference over 5 years or even 4 years.

I wouldn't be modding either really. Maybe a fender elim. kit, maybe an aftermarket can. Nothing more.

Insurance for the SV650 was quoted as being $425 a year. Which is actually half of that because of the six month riding season, so it is only $212.50 per season. I have my policy in suspension now so I don't pay premiums now. Don't know about the Monster 620 insurance, haven't called yet. I have State Farm, so I don't think it would be much more if only the same, they go by theft rate and cc's only. I have only seen one Ducati up here.

Your thought's?

BikerRN
02-08-2006, 10:10
My wife and I have Multistrada 620's, same engine.

We looked at the SV prior to getting the Multis. The SV is faster and puts out more horsepower. The Ducati is, in our opinion, classier and makes us smile more. Either one would be a great second bike. With Ducati's racing heritage we find the 620 engine to be Da' Bomb when taking the twisties.

It's not always the bigger bike that gets it done. My Buddy can't keep up with me on his in-line 900cc scoot when we go through the curves. I pull away from him, only to have him catch me on the straights.

Either bike would be great. The Ducati will have more class and garner a lot of looks, it even gets respect from Harley riders. They seem to recognise that it's a good V-Twin. ;) The SV will be cheaper, run OK, and do the job. It's sort of like a Glock. The Ducati is like a Bill Wilson Custom.

Good luck and hope to see you in the twisties.

freakshow10mm
02-08-2006, 10:28
Originally posted by BikerRN
Either bike would be great. The SV will be cheaper, run OK, and do the job. It's sort of like a Glock. The Ducati is like a Bill Wilson Custom.


Nice analogy. Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. I don't know of any Ducati dealers up here, might have to go down to Green Bay. Might be one there.

fnfalman
02-08-2006, 10:44
The SV is the better bike in terms of performance. The Monster is a lot prettier.

The SV will have cheap maintenance. The Duck will have expensive maintenance. Not as expensive as the 4-valve/cylinder Testastretta engines but still expensive.

The Multistrada although based on the Monster chassis, is a very different animal in terms of performance. The Monster 620's performance is very mediocre. For some reasons it doesn't seem to handle as well as the Multistrada even though they're suppose to be the same.

As much as I love Italian bikes, I would pick the SV650 over the wee Monster.

For 2006 the SV650 comes in a nice red shade as well. And you can always negotiate the price down considerably on the SV. You don't negotiate with Ducati prices.

PS Never say never with modification. The SV is one of those bikes that can grow with you. As your skills improve, you can mod this bike from warm to hot to superhot track grade. The wee Monster's mods are fairly limited.

BikerRN
02-08-2006, 11:01
By the way, later this year I will be looking for an SV 650S to turn it in to a Track Bike.

I love my Multi, but I don't want to tear it up at the track.

freakshow10mm
02-08-2006, 11:19
If I went with the SV650, I'd get an '03 blue; favorite color. If I went with the M620, I'd get the Dark version, red isn't my flavor, little cheaper too.

Expensive is relative for maintainence. How much expensive? Checking brakes and changing oil and checking idle speed, etc, I can do myself. Harder stuff I can get my fiance's dad or brother to help with. They can turn a wrench pretty good. Do the M620s have wacky, overcomplicated maintainence requirements?

Thanks for the heads up about the Ducati no-gotiating. :) Price is a consideration, I's like to stay less than $7K. I know I will spend more on the Ducati than the Suzuki. I have enough protective gear already so I won't be pouring the money into gear. Although I am getting a new helmet and maybe an Icon Tmax jacket, $450 total, not a biggie.

Cycletrader is giving me figures of around $4000 for an '02 w/ 3500mi up to $5795 for an '05 model for the M620. Some places are going at $6500-6750. Found out the closest Ducati dealer is Milwaukee or the 'thumb' of lower MI. Milwaukee would be closer, about a 6hr drive vs 10hrs+ to downstate.


You're probably right about the mods. Not much area around here to test the limits of the bike's handling. Maybe a trip to Green Bay now and again. Speed doesn't really do anything for me. Never was impressed by it. Power commander sounds nice too. I may have to rebuild the carbs on the GS450. FI is mandatory for this next purchase. Thinking about just buying one off eBay for $40 and saving myself the hassle.

I like real world usable power. For me, there is no sense is modding my bike to clip along at butthole-puckering speed when the speed limit up here is 55mph and in Green Bay, 65mph. Add 10mph if I am passing a logging truck. Any improvements past 70mph is useless to me, IMO.

fnfalman
02-08-2006, 12:24
The air/oil cooling two valves Desmodue engine on the wee Monster is fairly easy to maintain. The valve adjustment interval isn't quite as harsh as the 4-valves Testastretta engine. But valve adjustments can be tricky. The thing about Ducati is that they, like BMW, have a lot of proprietary tools. A local mechanic that I know and trust is a competent Ducati mech and he said that he spent like $15,000 on Ducati specific tools. I'm not saying that you need this complete of a Duck tool set to work on your bike, but there may be maintenances and repairs that you can't do because you'd need a specialty tool.

A typical Duck mechanic charges around $100/hour here in Kommiefornia. About $20/hr more than the Japanese mech and $10/hr more than BMW mech.

I haven't kept up with the 620 Dark Monster but look at the specs carefully. If memory serves the Dark version has a really crappy front brake as oppose to the better grade front brake on the regular 620.

If Red isn't your flavor then maybe the Black might do.

When you talk about changing out the exhaust and add a PC unit, you're talking about real world usable power. You probably not going to gain much over 5-HP but you won't have flat spots any more plus throttle response is more immediate and linear.

fnfalman
02-08-2006, 12:26
And by the way, don't be surprised to see yourself buying a "Ducati" or Dainese riding jacket or an entire outfit, generally in red or yellow. No self-respecting Ducatisti would go without one.~1

The Duck boys are about as bad as the Harley boys when it comes to dressing to match their bikes. I've seen guys and gals on wee Monsters wearing leather outfits that cost 1/3 of their bikes' costs.

freakshow10mm
02-08-2006, 12:54
Originally posted by fnfalman
The air/oil cooling two valves Desmodue engine on the wee Monster is fairly easy to maintain. The valve adjustment interval isn't quite as harsh as the 4-valves Testastretta engine. But valve adjustments can be tricky. The thing about Ducati is that they, like BMW, have a lot of proprietary tools.


If memory serves, the Dark version has a really crappy front brake as oppose to the better grade front brake on the regular 620.


When you talk about changing out the exhaust and add a PC unit, you're talking about real world usable power. You probably not going to gain much over 5-HP but you won't have flat spots any more plus throttle response is more immediate and linear.

No hydro-adj valves? I probably wouldn't adjust valves myself anyways. I'd probably take it in for that.

Front brake listed side by side state "2x300mm discs, 2-piston caliper" from the site. Don't know if they are the same or not going by that.

Any performance gains I am looking for is just to smooth everything out on the power curve; no peaks, valleys or dead spots. That's pretty much what I am going for. Not aiming to add HPs, just even things out. That's my 'rideable real world usable power' goal.

I'll also pass on the Ducati duds, thanks.:) You would get a kick out of me if you saw me on my *****in' GS450:

Bates UL Enforcer tacticool boots (left overs from Green Bay cop school)
Blue jeans
AMF Harley "Grease" type black leather jacket from 1974 (hand me down from Dad)
Icon gloves w/ screens for airflow, blue
Grex G10 mod helmet, blue, HUGE-like the Spaceballs kind (upgrading to KBC FFR)

Let me tell ya, the chicks dig me. I have all the fatties running (waddling) after me. Can't turn down a fine piece of manhood that dresses like I do when I ride.;g

;z ;z ;z

fnfalman
02-08-2006, 13:09
You might want to talk to a Duck sales rep or check in a Monster/Ducati forum. But I'm pretty certain that the Dark wee Monster has lesser brake AND more generic suspension as well.

Nope. Apparently I'm wrong. My Aprilia/Ducati sales dude said the differences are the lack of wind screen and the dark matt color are the only differences between the two. I remembered back in the days that the 750 Dark had a single front brake and no tach versus the regular 750 with dual front brake and full clock layout.

BTW, the valves are mechanical and that's Ducati claim to fame (desmodromic valve action). That and loud clutches save lives.;n

freakshow10mm
02-09-2006, 08:50
Thanks. What's the difference between the mechanical valves and hydras? I just heard hydras don't need adjustment as much. Is that true? Not the deciding factor, just curious.

fnfalman
02-09-2006, 10:30
Desmodromic valve
Desmodromic valves are those which are positively closed by a cam and leverage system, rather than relying on the more conventional springs to close the valves.

This is in the context of internal combustion engines. The valves in question are the ones that allow air into the cylinder and (usually different ones) that allow exhaust gases out. This refers, for example, to the valve control system used in Ducati engines: both valve movements (opening and closing) are "operated". It is usual to say that action on the valve is "positive" in both cases, in other words, both strokes are "controlled".

Desmodromic valve actuation has been applied to all but a few Ducati motorcycles. Two primary mechanical methods have been used to transfer timing information, from the crankshaft, to the camshaft and ultimately the levers or "rockers" and valves. Initially Bevel Driven camshafts were used. This involved transfering the timing information via several bevel (part conical gears where the rotating axis' of the two lie on an angle - 90deg for example) gears and a shaft running on the outside of the engine block. Then at around 1977, Chief Design Engineer Taglioni completed and tested an actuation system that used rubberized metal belts with timing teeth. These teeth would mesh with timing pulleys, also external to the main engine block, and transmit the timing information to the valves.

The primary reason for Desmodromic (Coloquial - "Desmo") systems is to improve valve timing at higher engine revolutions. On very high performance "Valve spring" engines, the spring does not always have time to return to it's pre-compressed position, causing the camshaft to recompress the spring and valve premeturely. This is called "valve float".

In general mechanical terms, the word desmodromic is used to refer to mechanisms that have different controls for their actuation in different directions. It is derived from two Greek roots, desmos (controlled, linked) and dromos (course, track).

freakshow10mm
02-09-2006, 13:12
Ahhhh. Thanks. I lurked over at some Ducati forums and found out their valve service for 6000 miles cost around $300. Don't know if there is a requirement before that mileage. Probably is, maybe 500-600mi? They said for a given job, it is usually $50-100 more for the Ducati than the Japanese bikes.

fnfalman
02-09-2006, 14:57
If you were to have the 4-valve Testastretta engine, the valve job is more like $1000 instead of $300 like the Desmodue aircooled engine. And mind you. That's just the valve job and not the rest of the periodic maintenance.

You have the initial break-in service at 600-miles and the next service at 6000-miles. I don't know if there's a recommended oil change in between or not. BikerRN can let you know what the recommended service intervals are since that his engine is the same as the 620 wee Monster.

And your regular services can be expected to run from $300 and up on any Italian bike and BMW.

Japanese bike services are dirt cheap and you don't need any valve adjustments until at least 12,000-miles or more. Many a Japanese sport bikes with high revving engines are still good with valve clearances and such at 24,000-miles. The Land of the Rising Sun knows how to build'em right.

BikerRN
02-09-2006, 18:40
I have the shop do the 600 mile service and the 6,000 12,000, 18,000 etc, etc.

I change my oil every 2,000 miles, no matter what the recommended interval is. I think it's every 3,000 miles. I run the bike pretty hard and since oil is cheap compared to the cost of an engine I figure it's money well spent.

I also change the oil filter at the same time. I take care of my bikes and have no problem doing simple stuff, like an oil change. The valves I will leave to the factory trained mechanics until the warranty is up. Then I may start doing it myself, but not if I have to buy Ducati specific tools.

I know you were looking at the Monster, but take a gander at the Multistrada. The Multistrada was designed for the "Real World" rider who wants to have fun in the curves but ride daily without having to go the chiropractor daily. ;)

Good luck and let us know what you decide on. I don't think you can go wrong with either bike. I'm just partial to windscreens, bags and an upright position. :)

c5367
02-10-2006, 04:19
Originally posted by fnfalman
If you were to have the 4-valve Testastretta engine, the valve job is more like $1000 instead of $300 like the Desmodue aircooled engine. And mind you. That's just the valve job and not the rest of the periodic maintenance.

....

$1k for valves? what rip-off mechanic are you going to? Testastetta valve adjustments run about 20-30% more than the desmodues. $300 or so should cover the oil change, valves, chain adjustment, etc for a desmodue. I know, I have one of each. (SS1000 and 749R)

BikerRN is right about the service intervals. The 600 is pretty much an oil change and check up. I had an '05 Monster 620 (traded up to a SS1000) The service prices aren't all that bad. While more than the SV, the added cost is well worth it because of the bling factor of a Ducati. It's a good looking bike that gets noticed.
Handling is decent on the M620, I even took mine to the track on occasion. It isn't going to pull anyone in the straights, but will very competently handle twisty spots. I personally have lapped less competent riders on R6's. (It is much easier on the 749:) ) Any bike is capable of way more than 90% of riders can extract from it, much in the same way many guns are mechanically capable of better groups than most shooters can achieve.

While some may classify the brake as "Crappy," having owned one I would not. For street use they were more than adequate and had little difficulty with 2-finger stoppies. They did fade a bit during heavy track use.

One thing I've noticed is that many insurance companies discount Ducati prremiums. Can't say why. When I was getting quotes, given Ducati premium was about half to 3/4 of what its Japanese counterpart was. (749 v R6, M620 v. SV650, etc.)

I'm certainly biased, but I'd say go with the Monster.

c5367
02-10-2006, 04:23
Oh yeah, my 05 M620 Dark is going for about $5k. Try cycletrader.com and http://ducatimonster.org/ for used Monster listings.

fnfalman
02-10-2006, 09:20
Originally posted by c5367
$1k for valves? what rip-off mechanic are you going to? Testastetta valve adjustments run about 20-30% more than the desmodues. $300 or so should cover the oil change, valves, chain adjustment, etc for a desmodue. I know, I have one of each. (SS1000 and 749R)



I don't own Ducatis but quite a few people I ride with do and they take their bikes to ProItalia in Glendale, California. This joint is not cheap but they have a Ducati "God" there apparently that knows everything there is about Ducks.

My Italian V-twin thankfully have engines designed and made by Rotax. No valve adjustments needed until 24,000-miles.

My lesser Italian I-4 also thankfully has an engine that received engineering inputs from Ferrari and Suzuki. Hopefully it won't be needing a valve job any time soon either.:cool:

freakshow10mm
02-10-2006, 09:51
BikerRN, thanks for the input. I got the figures for the valve job from the link you mentioned, ducatimonster.org. They had an FAQ there about repairs and maintainence that answered a lot of questions. They had a list of what needed to be done at each interval, 600, 6K, and 12K. Pretty good site.

I was looking at the Multi, but is another 1K more than the Monster new. I like the naked look better too. Don't know if I am going to get new or used. We will see when I get money together. Leaning towards the Monster more than the SV. Been checking at cycletrader to price them out a bit.

I checked insurance for the Monster and it is the same for the SV650, going to be about $200 for the season (6 months). Gotta love State Farm.

I am also going to check with the local shops around here to see if they are capable of doing Ducati work. Mostly up here is Suzuki and Honda, with one Victory dealer in Houghton. Closest Ducati dealer is Milwaukee. I'd hate to ride all the way there for a service job.

fnfalman
02-10-2006, 11:25
It sounds like you've gotten the Italian Fever.

freakshow10mm
02-10-2006, 11:34
Yeah, I don't know what it is. I am just drawn to the Monster 620 for some reason. Can't explain it. I am partial to bikes that have dual exhaust too. Looks like a more balanced design, IMO. The MGuzzis with the right drive and left exhaust just seem weird, OTOH. I like a left drive with a pipe on each side. Don't know why, just do.


I am going to sell my GS450 when I get the newer bike. Or thinking of screwing around with it and getting a drag bar, lower it, and just play around with it a bit. Maybe just leave it alone and sell it to offset some of the cost of the Monster. Won't get much, but good for a beginner.

fnfalman
02-10-2006, 13:08
Or keep both.

freakshow10mm
02-10-2006, 14:00
Sounds good, but I can't afford insurance on both. If I could, I might. I could get a power commander or slip-on cans with the $$ from the GS450, maybe both but I doubt it. Thing is, my GS450 is all paid for, cash of course. Great feeling.

BikerRN
02-10-2006, 17:39
Originally posted by freakshow10mm
Yeah, I don't know what it is. I am just drawn to the Monster 620 for some reason. Can't explain it. I am partial to bikes that have dual exhaust too. Looks like a more balanced design, IMO. The MGuzzis with the right drive and left exhaust just seem weird, OTOH. I like a left drive with a pipe on each side. Don't know why, just do.


I am going to sell my GS450 when I get the newer bike. Or thinking of screwing around with it and getting a drag bar, lower it, and just play around with it a bit. Maybe just leave it alone and sell it to offset some of the cost of the Monster. Won't get much, but good for a beginner.

If you are drawn to the Monster then it is a Monster you should have. ;c :)

triehl27
02-12-2006, 23:03
Last year I ended up with a chunk of change and wanted the baddest Suzuki I could get. I road the Gixxers 600,750,1000, didn't care for them settle on a Busa. Had it for about 3 months/2100mi and sold it for a 2001 SV650S. I loved the light fast handling of the SV. It's the difference between driving a Hummer and a porche in downtown traffic. The Busa was miserable in the city for me, to heavy in downtown traffic. I took a bath on the Busa but I couldn't be happier with the SV. I got lucky it was a warehouse find, still crated when I bought it.

As the Duc vs Suzi. I have a good friend that ride twice as fast and wilder then me on his 620 but out in the curves he can't keep up with the SV. The SV is a great bike. I love it and

BikerRN
02-13-2006, 10:25
That last comment just goes to prove, it's the rider, not the bike.

I'm faster in the corners than my buddy on an SV650. :cool:

Cryptoboy
02-15-2006, 12:10
I personally would go for the Ducati. I've come close several times now to getting a Monster or 916/996 for a second bike (my wife's an even bigger Harley lover than I am, but she loves the looks and feel of the Ducati's)

I figure one day, when the Harley is paid off, I'll have a Duc in my stable.

Although, that SV650 is pretty sweet looking too. I haven't had a chance to ride one (yet), a friend of mine had a Monster (750? 720? something like that) and I got a chance to ride it, liked it alot.

45acp4me
02-16-2006, 20:12
You live up in one of the northen most cities in Michigan. Unless you can do all wrenching yourself, I'd go with the SV650 simply because you won't have to take a day off work and drive for 10+ hours round trip just to drop a bike off for service if you need it.

That being said, I'm totally jealous of you due to the roads you get to ride on. The Keewenaw is a slice of heaven on earth. The summers may be short, but the roads make up for it.

freakshow10mm
02-20-2006, 11:21
Originally posted by 45acp4me
You live up in one of the northen most cities in Michigan. Unless you can do all wrenching yourself, I'd go with the SV650 simply because you won't have to take a day off work and drive for 10+ hours round trip just to drop a bike off for service if you need it.

That being said, I'm totally jealous of you due to the roads you get to ride on. The Keewenaw is a slice of heaven on earth. The summers may be short, but the roads make up for it.

Yeah, about 45 miles from the Harbor. Hunting is good up here too. I live right out on the Lake, so I can catch 20# lake trout off the beach in the summer. If you are familiar with the local "locations" up here around Calumet/ Laurium, I am actually in what as known as Sedar Bay, 5mi off of M203 as you head west back to Hancock towards McClain SP. Fall is probably the best season to ride up here. I like all the colors.

The Keweenaw is nice to ride. Not a lot of traffic, good thing for a newbie like me. Made a couple short jaunts to the Harbor last year. Will definately ride some more this year. The seasons are about 6 and 6, which saves on cycle insurance. Not too bad though. AZ or NM looks good right about now-all season riding. Last two days have been below zero, 40+mph winds, and still 5 feet of snow up here.

The service logistics is a concern of mine right now. I could go with the SV650 or wait until I get through the academy in the fall and see where I am going to live and then wait and buy a cycle until then. I may just ride my GS450 another year yet. Runs very well. Can't really afford a payment right now, although the deals should be coming in soon.:cool:

gixxer11
02-21-2006, 06:49
Originally posted by fnfalman
The Monster is a lot prettier.


Should have put "IMHO" in front of that;)

To quote Bill Lumberg from Office Space: "Umm, yeah. I'm gonna have to go ahead and diagree with you there";f

fnfalman
02-21-2006, 11:59
I know that looks are entirely subjective, but the Monster is a lot prettier than the SV by any standards of aesthetics. I'd still take the SV over it though.

c5367
02-21-2006, 18:32
If you were looking to buy new, might be a good idea to wait, at least on the Duc,

http://www.raptorsandrockets.com/news.html

Looks like they'll be beefing up the motor a bit. Might be something to wait for. If not for the new one, than the for the price drop in any 620's still on the dealer floor.

gixxer11
02-23-2006, 18:50
Originally posted by fnfalman
I know that looks are entirely subjective, but the Monster is a lot prettier than the SV by any standards of aesthetics. I'd still take the SV over it though.

I just think that Pierre Terblache has ruined enough bikes already. The 900ss WAS one of the prettiest bikes of all time, 'till he got a hold of it. The 999 looks even worse in person and the multistrada is hidious. This is just my opinon, of course. Hope I didn't offend you RN. You seem like a good guy. Ducatis just aren't the same since the mid '90s. I do like the retro supersport bikes, but those aren't his originals. Most people won't agree with me, but alot of bikes today look like crap. I can't stand "lines" and holes for the sake of having them. If it doesn't have a purpose then don't put it on there. Function over form looks good to me. I'm a GSXR nut, but they look like hell now. I'd still ride one though;f

BikerRN
02-23-2006, 21:41
Truth be told, I thought the multistrada was ugly when I first saw it. What won me over was the functional "practicality" of it. I didn't want to be another monkey fornicating a football. :)

By the way, I'm not too easily offended. ;c :)

c5367
02-23-2006, 23:35
Originally posted by gixxer11
....Function over form looks good to me. I'm a GSXR nut, but they look like hell now. I'd still ride one though;f

It's funny you say that in reference to Terblanche. The old Ducati Superbikes, 916, 996 etc, function took a backseat to form. They were torture racks ergonomically, and the way the bike was designed made it obvious that real world servicing wasn't thought of. The single sided swingarm, while gorgeous, wasn't as effective as a double sided one, among other things.

Having ridden both Tamburini's superbikes and Terblanche's, its obvious to me Terblanche put function as the top priority. The bikes just work better. His styling is love it or hate it, but the man is ahead of his time.

I recall when the 916 first came out, it was widely criticised for looking "cartoonish." Time has changed, and now it's regarded by many as the sexiest bike ever.

de gustibus non est disputandum. Style is subjective.


BTW, those GSXR's are damn impressive pieces of machinery. If I-4's were my thing, I'd be all over a new GSXR1k.

gixxer11
02-24-2006, 08:04
Originally posted by c5367
I recall when the 916 first came out, it was widely criticised for looking "cartoonish." Time has changed, and now it's regarded by many as the sexiest bike ever.


Honestly, I never thought the 916 was as pretty as everyone else thought, either. The under seat exhaust, how it goes under the engine, then 90deg. up the backside of the frame, the 90deg.s again, to go under the seat. The only way an underseat exhaust is going to "look good" to me is if the cylider head is backwards (i.e. intake to the front) on an transverse inline motor. All of those bends don't make sense to me. And the single-sided arm looked like it was there for one reason, to look "cool" and that's it. The Supermono was pretty. Really I think one of the prettiest (modern) bikes ever to come out of Italy was the old Cagiva V595 GP bike that Randy Mamola rode. Especially the one with the Carbonfiber frame. Don't know who designed it though.

gixxer11
02-24-2006, 08:11
Originally posted by BikerRN
Truth be told, I thought the multistrada was ugly when I first saw it. What won me over was the functional "practicality" of it. I didn't want to be another monkey fornicating a football. :)

By the way, I'm not too easily offended. ;c :)

It does look very useful and comfortable. Love the idea, I just don't agree with the execution. But what the hell do I know. Ducati never calls ME to get MY opinon.;c ;c ;c ;c ;c ;c ;g

fnfalman
02-24-2006, 10:04
I like Terblanche just like I like Chris Bangle. They have the guts to go outside of convention when it comes to exterior designs. Their vehicles don't look like anybody else's.

I personally don't know what's so bad about the 999 - both old and new. Supposedly the media critics claimed that the new 999 looks a lot better now due to different styling themes. I personally think that the media is full of it. They both look the same and they both look distinctively Italian and Ducati to me.

I don't know when the hell was it that the media annointed themselves art critics? And what's laughable is all the people that reads these articles and then regurgitate them verbatim.

Popular opinions seem to wildly divergent from these "expurts" opinions as far as looks concerned.

c5367
02-24-2006, 10:05
Originally posted by fnfalman
I like Terblanche just like I like Chris Bangle. They have the guts to go outside of convention when it comes to exterior designs. Their vehicles don't look like anybody else's.

I personally don't know what's so bad about the 999 - both old and new. Supposedly the media critics claimed that the new 999 looks a lot better now due to different styling themes. I personally think that the media is full of it. They both look the same and they both look distinctively Italian and Ducati to me.

I don't know when the hell was it that the media annointed themselves art critics? And what's laughable is all the people that reads these articles and then regurgitate them verbatim.

Popular opinions seem to wildly divergent from these "expurts" opinions as far as looks concerned.

;z

epsylum
02-24-2006, 17:32
Originally posted by fnfalman
I like Terblanche just like I like Chris Bangle. They have the guts to go outside of convention when it comes to exterior designs. Their vehicles don't look like anybody else's.

I personally don't know what's so bad about the 999 - both old and new. Supposedly the media critics claimed that the new 999 looks a lot better now due to different styling themes. I personally think that the media is full of it. They both look the same and they both look distinctively Italian and Ducati to me.

I don't know when the hell was it that the media annointed themselves art critics? And what's laughable is all the people that reads these articles and then regurgitate them verbatim.

Popular opinions seem to wildly divergent from these "expurts" opinions as far as looks concerned.

I am no "expurt" an don't write for a magazine. IMO Terblanche's bikes are butt-ugly. Even the MH900 or whatever it was called that the magazines went ga-ga over.

I didn't read a magazine to come to the conclusion the 999 is ugly. I knew it the second I saw it. All I could think was "dude, put down the ruler!". IMO it looks like Terblanche trys too hard to make his bikes look cool. Almost like those "futuristic" vehicles in any cheesy sci-fi movie. This is coming from an 84 GPz owner (man that thing is sooooo 80s looking ;f).

Hey what do I know. I think KZs and old school GSs are some of the coolest looking bikes ever. Plastic is okay, but naked bikes will always look better in my eyes.

fnfalman
02-24-2006, 18:51
Well, if being naked is good for a woman, then it's also good for a motorcycle. Except when you hit around 140 and then that fairing looks like it's a damn good idea.;f

epsylum
02-24-2006, 20:39
Originally posted by fnfalman
Well, if being naked is good for a woman, then it's also good for a motorcycle. Except when you hit around 140 and then that fairing looks like it's a damn good idea.;f

That reminds me of the first and only time I opened up a CBR1100XX. It was a Honda demo ride in Colorado (HSTA had their big yearly gathering there). The Honda rep leading the pack pulled away during a straightwaya in a valley between 2 mountains. I was enjoying the beautiful view (I mean freakin BEAUTIFUL). Then noticed the guy ahead of me was about a half mile ahead of me, so I nailed it ;N . I kept the normal riding postition through about 130mph, unitl my helmet started lifting, so I tucked. It went from hurricane force winds and noise to an nice quite whispy sound as I continued past 160mph. I cut the throttle at an indicated 175mph. Man aeros are nice.

The next ride on my GPz wasn't the same. I hit 140mph and that was all she had (I was at altitude though). I tucked behind the sqaured off 80s fairing. Nothing. Just as loud and obnoxious as riding straight up.

Aeros have come a long way. ;)

freakshow10mm
03-01-2006, 23:43
Well, found out last Wednesday I am going to be a father. There goes the Ducati. If I can afford to get a cycle this year, we'll have to see, problably not, it will probably be the SV650. I could pick one up for half the price of the Ducati, about $3K-3.5K for a 2003 model. Also, there are more accessories for it than the Ducati and I'd like to lower it also.

The bike I have has a 30" seat, same as the SV650 and I can get flat footed just fine, but I'd like to be a little lower than that. I can get lowering links for $50-60 from denniskirk.com. I assume the front has to be lowered to keep the geometry right. How is that done? Are there shorter fork springs? Do I just slide the forks up in the triple clamp more?

gixxer11
03-02-2006, 07:14
If you get the unfaired version, then you'll have to modify the forks because of the handlebar. The internals would have to be changed. Don't worry, it's not a big deal. The 's' version has clip-ons, so yes, you could slide the forks up A LITTLE. If you do that then make sure that the forks can bottom out without hitting the fender or radiator. There are several ways to lower the front end. Post again when/if you decide to do it. I'll try to help. I've lowered a few bikes before(wink wink). Even SV650s. One of the best bikes out there, you'll love it. I gaarontee!

fnfalman
03-02-2006, 10:05
First of all, congratulations on the baby. Secondly, maybe this is God's way of tellin' ya that an SV650 was meant to be in your garage.

Even if you were to do a correct lowering job (shorter springs and all that jazz), it will also decrease your lean angle. Your footpegs will be that much closer to the ground. I wouldn't lower a bike unless it's an absolute necessity.

freakshow10mm
03-04-2006, 10:11
Originally posted by fnfalman
First of all, congratulations on the baby. Secondly, maybe this is God's way of tellin' ya that an SV650 was meant to be in your garage.


Thanks. Yeah, I just thought maybe it is just something telling me to get the SV650. I'd get the naked version for sure. Probably an '03 so I can save money on it and still have EFI, which is a definate requirement for my next bike. Toss up between the SV650 as a sport bike or a M50 Blvd as a cruiser. The M50 has a shaft drive that comes with extra weight that I am not too fond of. I'll save that for later unless a really, really good deal comes along.

Anyways, if I lowered it, I would problably go only 2" drop, 3" at the very most. I have a 32" inseam and 22" ground to top of knee (seated) measurement. My seat on my GS450 is 30". The SV650 is 32". I'd like to lower it a touch just for low speed handling and easier mount/ dismount. At least match my bike's height. I think I am going to try to scoop some padding from my seat this spring just to take a little more off, like a half inch. I don't test to see how far I can lean. I read in the safety manual for my safety class as long as you a going 30mph or faster, you can safely lean out to 45* and your bike will hold up. Look at the racers. Amazing stuff. I lean no where near as far as they do.

I know I will lose some lean angle by doing so. I'm a pretty conservative rider, so I am willing to give up a little bit angle for parking lot control and low speed handling. Lower the CG a bit in the process.

BCM
03-04-2006, 10:45
Congrats on the new addition,
your gonna love the sv, mine seems to lean way over on the side stand, so no problem there, I have the same inseam and I dont think you will have any trouble with the height. check out svrider.com good site for sv owners. don't worry about your cornering either, for street riding you shouldn't have any worry of ground clearance, you have to toss it way over for something to scrape, your toe will touch before you scrape the peg, I have a '99 that I race and street ride as well. I am running full sharkskins body work and pitched over I touch the very bottom/side of the fairing. easy to maintain, cheap to run, and all the power you'll need! be careful of agressive 2nd and 3rd gear roll ons, it will come up!

freakshow10mm
03-04-2006, 10:50
Thanks for the heads up on the 2nd & 3rd roll-ons. I'll have to watch that. I am pretty conservative with the throttle, I just get up to speed nicely, trying to be smooth all the way.

BCM
03-04-2006, 11:01
I'll try and get a picture of the rearset brackets for you, that came on the bike, they move the pegs back and up 1" nice addition

gixxer11
03-04-2006, 15:30
You could also "scoop" the seat out and have it covered. Do you ride long hauls? BTW, congrats on the kid. I've got another on the way, too;Y

freakshow10mm
03-04-2006, 20:53
Thanks. It's our first.

I don't ride long rides. Mainly a commuter and pleasure rider here. Might take a trip to Green Bay (approx. 215mi) once this year maybe, if I have time. I mainly ride to work and just take short cruises, less than 75 miles round trip. I will put more miles on this year than last. I started riding last July when I got my endorsement. I just rode to work and for pleasure sunny day time waster trips. This year, it will be my main mode of commuting to school, weather permitting. I put on about 350mi per week on my truck and if I spent the same amount of gas money for my cycle that I do on my truck, I could turn that same amount into almost 1050 miles with my cycle.

I would say more of a commuter/ pleasure rider. It is 6.5 miles to town and another 11 or so to school. Basically about 17.5 Miles one way from my driveway to parking lot at school, so anywhere from 35-70mi per day, sometimes more depending on class schedule.

I was thinking of getting an aftermarket seat for the bike anyways. I may try and scoop some out first. I am going to scoop my GS450 seat in the spring and try to get an inch out of it. Got any tips?

fireman jb
03-07-2006, 02:16
I'm a Suzuki fan through and through. I've owned 2 GSXRs in the past, now own a custom chopper. I would go with the SV for sure, like mentioned above cheaper when it comes to getting valves done, aftermarket parts are everywhere and cheaper. Save some bucks and go Suzuki.

freakshow10mm
03-07-2006, 08:41
Yeah, I think the Suzuki won this one. Now it's whether to go with the S or naked. The naked is nice because if I drop it, there is no bodywork damaged. The S in nice because of the half-fairing to block the wind. The speed limit in most of my travels is 55mph. I have 6mi to go before Calumet and then another 17.5mi to Hancock for school. Both speeds are 55mph with about a half mile or so of 30mph riding in Calumet (the village is literally 3/4 of a mile wide). If I still lived in Green Bay, I would go naked all the way because of the slow city speeds all the time and add a windscreen for highway riding to Oshkosh.

So the half-fairing on the S model would block more wind generated by faster speeds. It also has a more aggressive (fetal) riding position than the naked and has clip-on handlebars whereas the naked has the standards. What is the difference? Never heard of clip-on HBs. I can also add a full lower fairing to the S model if I want for $250 painted. The naked is limited to the little belly scoopie thing like the SV1000. Attempt at ram air?

The bike will be purchased used. 2003 model at the earliest, '05 at the latest. I was told to look around for the older S models from '03 still at the dealers that didn't sell yet. Suzuki imported a buttload of them and overshipped, so a bunch of '03s are still around to be had for amazingly low OTD prices. Might have to look into that too.

BikerRN
03-07-2006, 08:55
No matter what the speed limit is I have found that I go faster, depending on the bike's capabilities.

I've done a 35 MPH corner at a reported 90 MPH and pulling away. I don't think I was going that fast, but I was pulling away. With either the Duc or the SV you will have the handling capability to that too. As far as fairing or naked, I'd say get the fairing. I suggest it not so much for the wind protection, but just because naked bikes, unlike naked women, aren't "my thing".

With either bike I think you will surprise yourself and find yourself riding more than you planned. I'm a daily rider and like the upright position of the Multistrada, but "tuck" a fair bit when I'm on the Interstate or wanting to go fast.

I ride on the Interstate about 3 days/week. Even at 55 MPH it's nice to be able to tuck in. Take care and keep the rubber side down.

fnfalman
03-07-2006, 10:40
Originally posted by freakshow10mm
Yeah, I think the Suzuki won this one. Now it's whether to go with the S or naked. The naked is nice because if I drop it, there is no bodywork damaged. The S in nice because of the half-fairing to block the wind. The speed limit in most of my travels is 55mph. I have 6mi to go before Calumet and then another 17.5mi to Hancock for school. Both speeds are 55mph with about a half mile or so of 30mph riding in Calumet (the village is literally 3/4 of a mile wide). If I still lived in Green Bay, I would go naked all the way because of the slow city speeds all the time and add a windscreen for highway riding to Oshkosh.

So the half-fairing on the S model would block more wind generated by faster speeds. It also has a more aggressive (fetal) riding position than the naked and has clip-on handlebars whereas the naked has the standards. What is the difference? Never heard of clip-on HBs. I can also add a full lower fairing to the S model if I want for $250 painted. The naked is limited to the little belly scoopie thing like the SV1000. Attempt at ram air?

The bike will be purchased used. 2003 model at the earliest, '05 at the latest. I was told to look around for the older S models from '03 still at the dealers that didn't sell yet. Suzuki imported a buttload of them and overshipped, so a bunch of '03s are still around to be had for amazingly low OTD prices. Might have to look into that too.

I like the regular SV because I don't like humping the tank. However, that's my personal preference. If you don't mind leaning over, and believe you me, you lean over very decently on that SVS and prefer the more sportive riding position then the SVS is for you. Wind blast doesn't bother me at all once I get used to it. I'd tuck in once speed get up to around 100, or getting lots of headwind, but otherwise, I'm good to go sitting up. The additional fairing makes the bike look very nifty but it will cost extra if you damage it in a crash or in a drop. In the end it's your call if you want to go with the SV or the SVS.

freakshow10mm
03-07-2006, 10:57
I'll have to get out a ride each one and see how they feel. I wonder if the fairing from the S model will just bolt on to the naked. I don't see why not, they are the exact same thing. I might have to switch the display stuff around or buy the whole kit and caboodle from eBay and make the swap then . I'll have to check it out. Then I would have the more upright riding position of the naked with the styling of the S and no clip-ons. Looks more comfy than laying all over the tank. Haven't been on a sportbike yet, but some look more comfy than others.

My bike doesn't have to be emaculate. I dropped my GS450 and scuffed up the tank a bit. No biggie. Just a war wound. Still rides fine. I'd like my bikes to look nice, but a ding here or there isn't going to make me cry. If the fairing gets stratched I am not going to run out and buy a whole new one. Just touch it up a bit and that is it.

I am pretty upright on my bike. Not like sitting in a chair, but just a slightly forward relaxed posture. I'd go for a happy medium between that and the tank humper position.

fnfalman
03-07-2006, 12:49
I think that the SV will look stupid with the whole fairing on. It doesn't have the swoopy headlight fairing to match with the bottom fairing.

freakshow10mm
03-07-2006, 16:01
I can get the headlight fairing too. Total cost for the headlight (upper) and lower fairing is $700 no paint and I have to drill the holes. Seems pricey but it is a matched set. Maybe save some money and take an S upper fairing and mate it with the lower fairing from the manufacturer that has the lower for $250 painted.

I have found about a half dozen body work makers that have some stuff for the naked and the S model. I will have to look into it after class if I have time.

fnfalman
03-07-2006, 16:09
You need to see if the headlight fairing will work with the handle bar of the SV. I did a quick eyeball between the SVS and the SV a couple of months ago thinking the same thing that you are and I don't think that the headlight fairing will work with the SV handle bar. I didn't pull out a tape measure and micrometer and all that, mind you. Just eyeball calibration.

epsylum
03-07-2006, 20:11
I say just go for the naked one.

No matter what if you drop it things are going to get beat up. I just a matter of is it the plastic or the radiator or frame, etc.

I personally like the looks of the naked one better, plus the bars give you a more upright seating postion and you can buy new bars if you don't like the shape of the stock ones.

Wind protection doesn't mean much under 100mph or so. My probelm with fairings is that I am taller than the normal rider so the screen provides almost no wind protection but funnels the air right to my head. Only when I tuck do I notice it, but I try not to do that too often. I don't want to look like some goofy squid tucking at 50mph. ;f

freakshow10mm
03-08-2006, 07:47
Originally posted by fnfalman
You need to see if the headlight fairing will work with the handle bar of the SV. I did a quick eyeball between the SVS and the SV a couple of months ago thinking the same thing that you are and I don't think that the headlight fairing will work with the SV handle bar. I didn't pull out a tape measure and micrometer and all that, mind you. Just eyeball calibration.

The stock HBs won't work. The company that sells the fairing kit also has HBs that will. Similar in design to the OEMs but a little different to not hit the fairing on a full HB turn. Probably go with the naked and go from there. Could put a drag bar on the naked. That might look cool. Clearance and line length might be an issue there.

fnfalman
03-08-2006, 10:21
SV650 with a sport fly screen that's a bit taller than the factory one and belly pan spoiler would look sweet. Leo Vince pipe and that mama will sing its siren's song. Gixxer 750 front end, Race Tech revalved rear shock, stainless steel brake lines w/ Ferrodo pades, some minor engine tuning and you'll be ready to tear up the track.