I think I am going to get my first 1911

[epsylum]

I have decided I "need" a 1911. It will be mainly used for target and bowling pin shooting. I plan to shoot my personal loads/reloads that hotter than the usual .45acp and also some .45super.

I am stuck on which one to get. I can't decide between Springfield or S&W.

The Springer I want. My local gunshop has it in stock.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistols/PX9152LLarge.jpg

The S&W I want. Not in stock will have to order.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14720&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

I do know I want one with an already Bo-Mar cut slide. I like the target style Bo-Mar sights a lot.

Wish do you think would put up with hotter loaded .45acp and .45super the best (after changing the springs for the super obviously)?

Pro and cons of each.

Thanks

[ILikeFtLbs]

Both are great guns, but with competitive shooting parts are going to break and wear out. The extractor is usually the first part to break. I'd go with the Springfield because you can drop in a new extractor on the range. Have fun.

[Sky042]

I have one of those springfields.
I LOVE mine and they're gorgeous to look at as well.
http://blazerzr2.com/stuff/1911-1.jpg

[10mm4ever]

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f7/masterofg3/th_000_0326.jpg (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f7/masterofg3/000_0326.jpg)
I like the Springfields, but the S&W's are very nice as well. As far as which would tolerate warmer loads the best, that's a tough one. Either way, I'd use shok-buffs and a heavier spring for warmer handloads. A standard mil-spec is fine straight from the box and makes a great platform for future mods as well.;f

[reflection01]

i don't know what you mean by "hotter" loads, to what level? most full sized 1911's are able to handle +p loads, but the draw back is +p will most likely cause way more rapid ware on the weapon in all repects - major to minor components.

as far as 45 super is concerned, the "standard" 1911 barrel/chamber does not provide adequate enclosure of the 45 super casing during it's ignition and the subsequent pressure build-up. standard 1911 barrels do not sport a fully supported/enclosed chamber design. you will see that there is a noticeable exposure of casing when a round is seated in the chamber, especially at the bottom of the chamber. this is where you are most vulnerable. the 45 super casing will likely fail and split open at the exposed area - potentially causing a catastrophic failure, not to mention the potential to cuase serious injury. both the springfiled and the sw 1911s would need to be modified to SAFELY handle the 45 super

i don't remember who makes the gun or the modification, but at a minimum, do the research and try to find a custom shop that builds or sells 1911s designed to fire 45 super rounds. good luck :)

ps: heavier spring and some recoil pad would help to a degree, but remember that heavier spring would also increase the speed of your slide on during the return to battery stroke, and the recoil buffer would do nothing to absorb the increased impact from the extra inertia. worse yet, spring is the least of your worries when setting up your piece to handle the 45 super - i know there is at least one or two custom shops that builds 1911s for 45 super. find them :)

[pangris]

Originally posted by ILikeFtLbs
Both are great guns, but with competitive shooting parts are going to break and wear out. The extractor is usually the first part to break. I'd go with the Springfield because you can drop in a new extractor on the range. Have fun.

How is the extractor on these any different than they extractor on the other guns these manufacturers make?

[epsylum]

Originally posted by pangris
How is the extractor on these any different than they extractor on the other guns these manufacturers make?

The S&W has an external extractor insteado of the standard 1911 internal one.

[epsylum]

Originally posted by reflection01
i don't know what you mean by "hotter" loads, to what level? most full sized 1911's are able to handle +p loads, but the draw back is +p will most likely cause way more rapid ware on the weapon in all repects - major to minor components.

as far as 45 super is concerned, the "standard" 1911 barrel/chamber does not provide adequate enclosure of the 45 super casing during it's ignition and the subsequent pressure build-up. standard 1911 barrels do not sport a fully supported/enclosed chamber design. you will see that there is a noticeable exposure of casing when a round is seated in the chamber, especially at the bottom of the chamber. this is where you are most vulnerable. the 45 super casing will likely fail and split open at the exposed area - potentially causing a catastrophic failure, not to mention the potential to cuase serious injury. both the springfiled and the sw 1911s would need to be modified to SAFELY handle the 45 super

i don't remember who makes the gun or the modification, but at a minimum, do the research and try to find a custom shop that builds or sells 1911s designed to fire 45 super rounds. good luck :)

ps: heavier spring and some recoil pad would help to a degree, but remember that heavier spring would also increase the speed of your slide on during the return to battery stroke, and the recoil buffer would do nothing to absorb the increased impact from the extra inertia. worse yet, spring is the least of your worries when setting up your piece to handle the 45 super - i know there is at least one or two custom shops that builds 1911s for 45 super. find them :)

Thanks for the info. I have read all of this and as he points out that it does not take much to "convert" a 1911 to .45super as most of the "conversion" has absolutely nothing to do with the round itself.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm
http://www.realguns.com/archives/021.htm
http://www.realguns.com/archives/022.htm

Also as it states here:

http://www.texas-ammo.com/45super.htm

Although malfunctions and damages as described in the following paragraph can be expected, because the 45 Super® case is designed to handle the high pressures it generates in the unsupported action of the 1911 style handgun, the case itself should not rupture unless there is a defect in the firearm .

I do understand that the gun will not last as long as one shooting nothing but regualr ball ammo, but that is why I am not using a Les Baer or a TRP Pro. I just want a strong all steel 1911 for a platform.

My "warm" bowling pin loads are 10.6-10.8 gr. of AA#7 with 230gr. Rainier hollow points. Not quite +p, but I am not using +p brass.

I alrady have a .45super gun, a G21 w/ 22# spring (wanting to get at least a 24# spring though) and a 6" KKM barrel (full chamber support), but I love this round and like loading for it and figuered another one can't hurt. Spread the beating out over 2 guns ;).

[Epizza]

I have the Springer Black Stainless and I love it! I will be using it in IDPA tommorrow, and can't wait to see how it does. I normally use my Glock but gonna get the "dust" off the Springer.:) ;b

[pangris]

Originally posted by epsylum
The S&W has an external extractor insteado of the standard 1911 internal one.

This I know - but why do you think it is likely to break?

By all accounts, S&W got the external extractor right - and I can't stand external extractors on 1911s. I've got many thousands of rounds through several 1911s and I've yet to break and extractor...

Agreed they can and will eventually break but for "competition shooting" it would be my very last concern if the general design didn't offend my sensibilities.

[ILikeFtLbs]

On the 1911, the extractor is the weakest part. It is more likely to break than any other part. A competitive pistol gets a lot of wear, and the extractor is going to break eventually, maybe even during a match. Therefore, it may be necessary to replace an extractor during a match. The extractor on a Springfield takes seconds to replace. The extractor on a S&W has to go back to the shop.

Conclusion: I'd use a Springfield (or a Kimber or Colt) for competitive shooting.

[pangris]

Perhaps... but I believe the spring loaded external extractor, done properly, is supposed to overcome that weakness.

You can always send it in for regular maintenance, say every 5000 rounds, for a new one. it is a cheap part, relative to the cost of a round count high enough to break it.

I understand where you are coming from - but I wouldn't make a decision about a "fun gun" over it, thats all.

Paul