Para-Ord LDA

[Nelybarg]

so i'm considering a Para-Ord LDA. i have 2 questions about it, specifically the trigger and acceptability of aftermarket parts. i have a colt commander, so i'm not a noob when it comes to 1911's.

1. hows the trigger? i'm guessing its DA/SA. whats the approx pull weight in DA and SA? is there a lot of take up?

2. how do aftermarket parts fit? obviously i cant fit a standard 1911 trigger into it, but what about other things like MSH, grip safety, thumb safety, etc?

3. how's reliability? i understand a gun may need a break in period, no big deal. but do para-ords have function problems? hows para-ord when it comes to warranty and customer service?

4. hows the widebody guns compare to the single stacks?

5. they make the gun in 9mm and .40 S&W, anyone know about functionality of these chamberings?

i know its not a traditional 1911. the only reason i'm looking into the LDA is my dept will not authorize a standard 1911 SA only for carry.

thanks to all in advance
NEil

[txleapd]

I don't own an LDA, but I plan on acquiring one as my next pistol. I have a few friends who have them, and I have shot them plenty.

1. The trigger is an LDA (i.e. Light Double Action). It's basically a DAO, but "light."

2. I believe that the MSH, grip safety, thumb safety, sights, barrel, barrel bushing, slide stop and mag catch are about the only same parts. But I would like to know for sure, so if any of you Para LDA owners out there know.....

3. I've heard good and bad, mostly good. I've never experienced any major malfunctions, but I haven't shot them as much as a lot of other people around here have.

4. I don't mind it.

5. I'm pretty sure that 9mm and .40 S&W chambering would function in an LDA about as well as you'd expect they would in a traditional Para 1911.

I have a few friends that love the 1911, but for some reason feel uncomfortable carrying one on duty. They have opted for and LDA instead, and are quite happy.

[prezzz]

Originally posted by Nelybarg
so i'm considering a Para-Ord LDA. i have 2 questions about it, specifically the trigger and acceptability of aftermarket parts. i have a colt commander, so i'm not a noob when it comes to 1911's.

1. hows the trigger? i'm guessing its DA/SA. whats the approx pull weight in DA and SA? is there a lot of take up?

2. how do aftermarket parts fit? obviously i cant fit a standard 1911 trigger into it, but what about other things like MSH, grip safety, thumb safety, etc?

3. how's reliability? i understand a gun may need a break in period, no big deal. but do para-ords have function problems? hows para-ord when it comes to warranty and customer service?

4. hows the widebody guns compare to the single stacks?

5. they make the gun in 9mm and .40 S&W, anyone know about functionality of these chamberings?

i know its not a traditional 1911. the only reason i'm looking into the LDA is my dept will not authorize a standard 1911 SA only for carry.

thanks to all in advance
NEil


I had a Para "Tac-Four" so I can answer from experience.

1. Trigger was very nice. Predictable, light and the same on every shot which made it nice. There is no going back and forth between SA and DA. The was my first DAO and I grew to like it very much.

2. If your asking about compatability with 1911 parts, forget it. There is not one part that is 1911 compatable. It's a double stack double action gun. The 1911 is a SA single stack. Totally different animal.

3. Very nice quality. Fit and finish was very good. There is a magazine issue with these. After stuffing thirteen .45 ACP rounds in the mag, there is a great deal of pressure exerted on the feed lips and tends to spread them apart over time, causing failure to feed issues (at least on the Tac-4). This is one of the reasons I got rid of it.

4. Comfortable. I liked it just fine and I have average size hands.

5. Can't help you here. Mine was .45

2 reasons I sold it: Failure to feed issues about every 3rd round in 2 out of 4 of my factory mags, and when fully loaded, it was just too heavy.

[Nelybarg]

thanks for the replies.

i was looking at their nite-tac models. since our dept issues 9mm, i was eying this one here:
http://www.paraord.com/product/product.html?id=98

or this one: http://www.paraord.com/product/product.html?id=97

it all depends on the witdh of the frame. i'm very comfortable with the thickness of the standard 1911, and didnt want to go much wider. problem is the para-ord site doesnt give specs on the width dimensions, and i dont know if the dimensions between the 2 i'm considering are even different or not. also, i'm having a hard time finding prices for them.

also, does anyone know anything about their "individual officer purchase kit" program.. http://www.paraord.com/pages/lawenforcement.html
i wonder what it is.

[txleapd]

Originally posted by prezzz
2. If your asking about compatability with 1911 parts, forget it. There is not one part that is 1911 compatable. It's a double stack double action gun. The 1911 is a SA single stack. Totally different animal.

What about compatability of some 1911 parts with single stack LDA's?

The OP wasn't clear when he asked #2, so I didn't assume he was specifically talking about double stacks....

[txleapd]

Originally posted by Nelybarg
i was looking at their nite-tac models.

Me too.... I've also been having trouble finding pricing on them.

[Skpotamus]

I had a 14-45 LDA, as well as currently own a 7-45 LDA.

The 14-45 is actually a little narrower than the Springfield loaded with it's standard grips on it at the bottom. However, the standard 1911 grips narrow somewhat as you go up, the Para's don't.

The 7-45 seems to have pretty standard 1911 parts on it except the barrel and trigger group. I'll have to look at mine again, but I believe the barrels are ramped on the paras.

BTW, both guns have been 100% reliable as far as feeding and pretty accurate as well.

I have heard a lot of bad things about para's, but of the 4 people I know that own them, none of us have had any problems. I did have one para come back to a shop I worked in with a complaint of accuracy, I shot the gun from rest and produced a 3" group at 25 yards.

I think you will do well with a para pistol.

[JCM298]

I have two Para LDA's. The first is a NIB Carry 12. The second is a used C6.45. Both are good shooters, accurate, and nicely finished. There have been no problems except when my son-in-law was shooting W-W white box 230 gr FMJ. There was one failure to feed. Since he was a new shooter, it may have been shooter induced. I've had no problems with either factory or my reloads.

To me, shooting the LDA is similar to shooting a well tuned revolver. Some shooters complain about the long trigger re-set but it's not been a problem for me.

Parts can be a problem but Brownells carries almost everything I've needed. I've only replaced the grips on mine, so I can't answer your questions.

Para has a good reputation for service. I've had to contact them and responses were fast.

The Carry 12 really fits my hand but the thicker grip makes it a little more difficult to CCW.

Check the Para forums at these sites:

http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=33

and

http://forum.m1911.org/forumdisplay.php?f=24

John

[prezzz]

Originally posted by txleapd
What about compatability of some 1911 parts with single stack LDA's?

The OP wasn't clear when he asked #2, so I didn't assume he was specifically talking about double stacks....

Good question. Can't answer that one. He ask about "widebodys" in #4 so I assumed he was looking at a double stack. Could be a wrong assumption on my part.

[prezzz]

The failure to feed issues I had and read about could be either:

1. Only the Tac-Four

2. Only double stacks.

It's been a while since I owned it so that information has been purged from the memory.;)

[Nelybarg]

ya i wasnt too specific in the original post. at that time i hadnt even considered a wide body para. i'm still not sure if i am considering them to be honest. it all depends on the thickness of the grip. and i cant seem to find any info on that particular dimension what so ever. i'm gonna shoot off an email to para and see what they say. i'll post their response when i get one.

i read up on the 1911 forums that say the LDA isnt a true DA gun. also that it has no decocker, and its trigger system can be compared to that of a glock (which we're issued). problem is, our chief is pretty much dead set against the 1911's (the whole cocked and locked thing) in general so i'd have to get verification that i could carry it before i shelled out the cash on one.

[prezzz]

Originally posted by Nelybarg

i read up on the 1911 forums that say the LDA isnt a true DA gun. also that it has no decocker, and its trigger system can be compared to that of a glock (which we're issued). problem is, our chief is pretty much dead set against the 1911's (the whole cocked and locked thing) in general so i'd have to get verification that i could carry it before i shelled out the cash on one.


"i read up on the 1911 forums that say the LDA isnt a true DA gun"

Why isn't it?

"also that it has no decocker"

Why does a DAO gun need a decocker?

"and its trigger system can be compared to that of a glock"

I see no remote comparison here at all. The LDA is a hammer/pin system and the Glock is a Striker system.

"our chief is pretty much dead set against the 1911's"

The LDA isn't a 1911. The LDA looks like a 1911 on the outside, but the internals are nothing like a 1911.

"the whole cocked and locked thing) in general so i'd have to get verification that i could carry it before i shelled out the cash on one."

The LDA is a DAO pistol so "cocked and locked" isn't an option.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but from everything I've read so far, I'm thinking you don't have the correct gun in mind when you refer to the LDA. Are you sure the LDA is what your talking about here?

^8

[prezzz]

"Para’s LDA, or Light Double-Action, triggers are a known advantage on the range where the smooth trigger pull helps you hit your target more consistently, shot after shot. But the advantage doesn’t stop there. Para’s LDA pistols allow a hammer-down carry for instant readiness and a trigger pull so light and smooth, that you’ll be less likely to jerk your shot off target. The LDA has been proven a winner, both on and off the field, and has earned Para a record four Gunny awards."

From the Para website.

[Nelybarg]

Originally posted by prezzz
"i read up on the 1911 forums that say the LDA isnt a true DA gun"

Why isn't it?

"also that it has no decocker"

Why does a DAO gun need a decocker?

"and its trigger system can be compared to that of a glock"

I see no remote comparison here at all. The LDA is a hammer/pin system and the Glock is a Striker system.

"our chief is pretty much dead set against the 1911's"

The LDA isn't a 1911. The LDA looks like a 1911 on the outside, but the internals are nothing like a 1911.

"the whole cocked and locked thing) in general so i'd have to get verification that i could carry it before i shelled out the cash on one."

The LDA is a DAO pistol so "cocked and locked" isn't an option.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but from everything I've read so far, I'm thinking you don't have the correct gun in mind when you refer to the LDA. Are you sure the LDA is what your talking about here?

^8

as quoted from a post on 1911, hence my phrase, "from what i read"

"Actually unloading the mainspring might be a useful trick, but I'm not sure it's possible within the confines of the (admittedly magic) Para innards. The key here is that they've essentially split the normal 1911 hammer into two parts. The part that works with the mainspring and rides on the sear, and the part that is pulled back to cock the weapon and then accepts the mainspring's power when the sear is tripped. A couple of levers tie 'em together - one to draw back the hammer when you depress the trigger (and to trip the sear), and one to cock the mainspring if the slide or hammer are moved rearwards.

This is why the "DA" trigger pull is so light. Except for the actual letoff area, the trigger is pulling against only a couple pounds of spring, purely to move the hammer back to it's "ready to fire" position. At that point you have about 0.010" of five pounds or so, and the sear will trip about midway through that. It's more or less equivalent to any old SA trigger there, except that the "reset" point, as the trigger is released after firing, is quite a ways farther out than most SA's would be."


back to "from what i've read" meaning other posters on the 1911 site have said this, not me. now if i'm confused on the trigger mechanism, fine, no problem, thats why i'm asking all the questions to begin with.

if it cant be carried cocked and locked, then why does it have a thumb safety on it? tell you what, i'll give you my chiefs number and you can explain to him that his policy of no 1911's is dumb. :)
what i'm saying is, that even if its not a traditional 1911, it looks like one, hence he may say NO.

thanks for contributing.

[txleapd]

Originally posted by Nelybarg
if it cant be carried cocked and locked, then why does it have a thumb safety on it?

Para LDA's cannot be carried cocked and locked. They are technically DAO pistols. The thumb safety is there because they apparently stuck with the original 1911 design on that part. Just because it has a thumb safety doesn't mean that it's a single action pistol.

Originally posted by Nelybarg
tell you what, i'll give you my chiefs number and you can explain to him that his policy of no 1911's is dumb. :)
what i'm saying is, that even if its not a traditional 1911, it looks like one, hence he may say NO.

thanks for contributing.

It sounds like your chief is not only completely ignorant of firearms, but he's apparently a close minded tool as well. Either no one has taken the time to explain the differences to him, or he's just not listening.

If the latter is true, does he shove his fingers in his ears and scream, "La La La La La La La" when you tried explaining it to him? I hate people like that.

A closed mind is a good thing to lose - Anon

[Nelybarg]

no. hes not completely closeminded as far as i can tell. I dont interact with him much since i work nights only and hes obviously on a 9-5 schedule. hes actually a great guy to work for.

most all guns are approved, but they cant be single action only (1911's). as i said before he MAY say no. but i'm pretty sure he'd at least hear me out once i explained the LDA system to him. only thing is, hes got final approval, i have to go through our captain first (chain of command), who while a pretty good guy, can be slightly difficult at times if theres a disagreement.

all of this is somewhat moot. i have to find the gun first, see if i can rent one and like how it shoots/feels, make sure i have the funds to buy it....yadda yadda. then take it to the dept. i'm not sure if i even want to carry it for duty, but i'd like that option, especially if i'm plunking hundreds of bucks on a pistola.

[Skpotamus]

You cannot leave the hammer of a LDA back, plain and simple. The thumb safety (which is common to many firearms, not just 1911's), allow you disengage the trigger in case of an idiot pulling the trigger when they didn't want the gun to actually fire.

It's similar to the Sig Sauer DAK trigger, (yes it has a hammer, but you can't cock it), or the Beretta DAO guns.

The best thing to do, IMO, is to print off the info from the Para ord website, let him read up on it first, then show him the gun, explain immediately that the gun functions like a glock, Double Action Only (DAO), and cannot be cocked, the gun is carried hammer down, safety on, just like a Beretta. If someone is carring a Beretta at your dept, point out that their Beretta has hte same safety system as your gun and if yours isn't allowed, theirs shouldn't be either.

If that doesn't work, hold your breath until he lets you :)

[Glockaround the Clock]

I just picked up a Para LDa Nite-tac yesterday. Will be able to go to the range Monday hopefully. this is the second 14 shot 45 I have of theres. while I have never had any problems I have heard that the original double stack mags had feeding problems and that they went to Wolff springs and since corrected it.I paid 746 for mine .Sad since I rember paying 250 dollars for a new Colt about 30 years ago. Isn't ageing and nostalgia fun.

[Nelybarg]

glockaround..yours is a 14.45 nite-tac? this one in either stainless or black http://www.paraord.com/product/product.html?id=49

could you please do me a huge favor and measure the thickness of the frame (handle) without the grip panels on? i'm really interested in knowing the dimensions.

also, did you buy yours online or in person?

thanks!

[Glockaround the Clock]

I bought it in person , locally and it is the black finish. 5 and one quarter is the measurement.I think the gun feel very good in my hand. My thumb tip and my second finger are touching with a high grip.Unfortuanately there was no range time for me today.