.45 ACP vs .45 GAP Velocity

[Butch]

Well, I finally got my G39 and went to the range yesterday with my chronograph. I took along all three of the .45 GAP's and the G21 with both 230 grain FMJ ball and 230 grain JHP of the Winchester White Box variety in both calibers. The temperature was 40 degrees (F).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/Ammo%20pics/45WWBx2.jpg

Velocity listed for each on the Winchester website are:
.45 ACP
- 230 FMJ - 835 fps
- 230 JHP - 880 fps

.45 GAP
- 230 FMJ - 850 fps
- 230 JHP - 880 fps

I only fired five round strings due to time and cost restraints, but the results only tend to confirm that those who think the .45 GAP isn't as powerful as the .45 ACP either don't know what they're talking about or they just refuse to accept the truth.

Barrels are stock Glock, the G21 barrel being 117 mm long and the G37 barrel being 114 mm long.....yes the G21 barrel is 3 mm longer than the G37 barrel.

My results (average of five shots):

G21: (117 mm barrel)
.45 ACP
- 230 FMJ - 753 fps
- 230 JHP - 783 fps

G37: (114 mm Barrel)
.45 GAP
- 230 FMJ - 802 fps
- 230 JHP - 815 fps

G38: (102 mm barrel)
- 230 FMJ - 777 fps
- 230 JHP - 810 fps

G39: (88 mm barrel)
- 230 FMJ - 745 fps
- 230 JHP - 767 fps


Yes, the .45 GAP beat the .45 ACP even from the shorter G38 barrel and came real close with the G39. Very interesting, I may have to do this again when it gets 30 or so degrees warmer out.

It's my opinion that no one getting hit by any of the above would be able to tell the difference.


;?

[WIG19]

Originally posted by Butch
It's my opinion that no one getting hit by any of the above would be able to tell the difference.

:patriot:
That's all there is to say about that.
:thumbsup:

[DonD]

Since the 45GAP is loaded to +P standards, the fair comparison is to match the GAP against .45ACP +P. The ACP wins that one. My G30 runs 972 fps with the 230gr Federal LE Tactical +P.

I'll grant you that this doesn't mean the ACP has a great advantage over the GAP. Don

[TheGlock23Guy]

AMMUNITION BALLISTICS FOR: .45 GAP

BULLET BARREL
LENGTH VELOCITY (fps) ENERGY 30 yd.
MIDRANGE
WT. TYPE MFG MUZZ.50 MUZZ. 50 TRAIL
185 JSP (W) 5 1000 938 411 361 1.1
185 JHP (F) 5 1090 970 490 385 1.0
185 JHP (C) 4 1030 942 436 364 0.9
185 FMJ (F) 5 1090 970 490 385 1.0
185 FMJ (C) 4 1030 930 436 355 1.1
200 JHP (C) 4 950 895 401 355 1.0
200 FMJ (C) 4 920 853 376 323 1.1
230 JHP (W) 5 880 842 396 363 1.1
230 FMJ (W) 5 850 834 369 338 1.2
230 LF (W) 5 875 840 391 360 1.1

AMMUNITION BALLISTICS FOR: .45 Auto

BULLET BARREL
LENGTH VELOCITY (fps) ENERGY 30 yd.
MIDRANGE
WT. TYPE MFG IN MUZZ. 50 MUZZ. 50 TRAIL
145 Safety (CB) 5 1350 1146 587 423 0.5
155 Frang. (U) 5 970 903 324 280 0.9
165 JHP+P (CB) N/A 1250 1121 573 461 0.7
165 JHP (F) 5 1060 980 410 350 1.1
165 PB (CB) N/A 1225 1081 550 428 0.6
165 LF (F) 5 1080 1010 425 375 1.0
170 LF (W) 5 1050 982 416 364 0.9
185 JHP+P (S) 5 1140 1042 534 446 1.0
185 JHP (C) 5 1050 956 453 375 1.1
185 FMJ (C) 5 1000 909 411 339 1.0
185 FMJ (R) 5 1140 1042 534 446 1.0
185 JHP (R) 5 1015 951 423 372 1.1
185 JHP (S) 5 1000 939 411 362 1.2
185 JHP (S) 5 950 900 370 365 1.4
185 JHP (P) 5 900 830 339 290 1.4
185 FMJ (W) 5 910 861 340 304 1.4
185 FMJ (F) 5 780 700 245 200 2.0
200 JHP (C) 5 1080 994 518 439 0.9
200 JHP+P (H) 5 1055 982 494 428 1.0
200 JHP+P (C) 5 975 917 421 372 1.4
200 JHP (C) 5 975 917 421 372 1.4
200 FMJ (C) 5 975 897 422 357 1.0
200 JHP (S) 5 900 938 444 391 1.4
200 FMJ (P) 5 850 788 321 276 1.6
200 LSW (MT) 5 950 910 401 368 0.8
200 LSW (BH) 5 875 833 340 309 1.5
200 LSW (U) 5 840 807 313 289 1.3
230 LRN (U) 5 830 793 352 321 1.4
230 JHP+P (BH) 5 950 904 462 418 1.3
230 JHP (S) 5 900 859 412 377 1.4
230 JHP (S) 5 875 836 391 350 1.4
230 JHP (S) 5 850 814 369 338 1.6
230 JHP (S) 5 835 800 356 326 1.6
230 LF (S) 5 835 797 356 325 1.5
230 FMJ (S) 5 880 835 401 358 1.5
230 FMJ (S) 5 845 804 363 329 1.6
230 FMJ (S) 5 830 795 352 323 1.7
230 FMJ (MT) 5 780 720 310 265 1.8

[Bernoulli]

OK Butch, go get yourself some CorBon or DoubleTap ACP and see how close GAP can get to that.

GAP is a high-pressure round designed to match the ballistics of a standard pressure ACP, and it does that just fine. But it can't reach the ballistics of ACP loaded to GAP pressures, and never will.

So if standard pressure ACP velocities are all you want, then GAP is just fine. It's a well-engineered system whose ultimate survival depends more on economics than ballistics.

But if you want higher velocities, GAP won't do it. Just don't go making the claim that they are the same - they're not.

[Butch]

Originally posted by Bernoulli
OK Butch, go get yourself some CorBon or DoubleTap ACP and see how close GAP can get to that.

GAP is a high-pressure round designed to match the ballistics of a standard pressure ACP, and it does that just fine. But it can't reach the ballistics of ACP loaded to GAP pressures, and never will.

So if standard pressure ACP velocities are all you want, then GAP is just fine. It's a well-engineered system whose ultimate survival depends more on economics than ballistics.

But if you want higher velocities, GAP won't do it. Just don't go making the claim that they are the same - they're not.
You know what?

The .44 Magnum and the .500 Magnum are both higher powered than .45 GAP too!

But they won't fit in a 9mm/.40 S&W sized magazine either!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/44magGlock.jpg

.45 GAP does, and it is very much the equal to the .45 ACP cartridge regardless of whether anyone likes it or not.

And who wants higher velocity? What's wrong with the .45 ACP? It's a great cartridge! It always has been and always will be!

;?

[Bernoulli]

You've got it! They aren't the same and won't give the same ballistics.

I think the point you're trying to make is that it gives the same ballistics as a standard pressure ACP round, and you'd be right. And if that's what you want from the 45, the GAP's for you.

[petej88]

Actually, the 45GAP can easily be hotroded but it ain't std and there is currently no such thing as gap+. The brass still holds up fine even pushing a 230 grainer at 1000 fps with a slow powder of course.

[wlst101]

You tell'em Butch! As soon as you compare GAP to ACP and show they are equal you get the standard reply of "can't beat +p ACP, no way, never". GAP brass was designed for higher pressure so I bet there is some wiggle room and with new powder technology it wont be long before it will match +p

[ricciardelli]

.45 GAP
Glock 37 - 4.49 Inch Barrel
Speer 185 JHP GD..1045
Speer 200 JHP GD....971
Speer 200 FMJ........993


.45 ACP
Kimber Ultra CDP - 3.0 Inch Barrel
Speer 185 JHP GD..909
Speer 200 JHP GD..953

Colt Commander - 4.25 Inch Barrel
Speer 185 JHP GD......1003
Speer 200 JHP GD +P..1035

Colt Government Model - 5 Inch Barrel
Speer 185 JHP GD......1035
Speer 200 JHP GD........951
Speer 200 JHP GD +P..1072

[BrokenArrow]

Pretty much peas in a pod when comparing most factory loads in G37/G21.

The GAP and ACP pretty close, the ACP +P has an edge.

The 185 GDs were about the same in my G37/G21, the 200 GD ACP +P faster than the 200 GD GAP. CorBon's ACP loads beat their GAP loads.

WWB is all over the place from lot to lot. I've had the 230 JHP ACP avg from just under 800 fps to over 880 fps...

The GAP is loaded to higher pressures in a stronger case. So to be really fair, we should bring in the 45 Super/.450 SMC? ;)

The reason for the GAP is a thinner grip. That thinner grip may not take you where you think it will.

Flip a coin, or try 'em both and see which really works better for you on the target end.

Been there, done that. While the G37 has the thinner grip that feels "better", I do not shoot it better than the Brick. Lucky me?

Go where you mileage takes you and be happy. :alien:

[WIG19]

Yes, it's absolutely what matters in the individual shooter's hand - and possibly the wallet. If I wanted a really compact platform with which to throw 7 230gr Rangers or 200gr Gold Dots, comparing a G39 with the SA Micro or Ultra compacts (and their like) I have a lot of $$ left over for other goodies, like practice ammo, training & filling up holster boxes.

Not the only perspective, but the G39 is pretty good bang for the buck (and I'm a 1911 fan too).
:patriot:

[Chase7]

Originally posted by Butch
Thanks for Good Info!!

[cyberghostx13]

Well I certainly appreciate all the info on the ammo of the great 45 Caliber. I recently bought a Glock 37 after much internet investigation. I bought my Glock 37 because in California a citizen can only have a 10 round magazine in either rifle or handgun. So I wanted the most bang for my 10 shot only magazine. I guess i could have bought a 45 ACP Glock, but I wanted the newest Glock on the block(37, 38, 39) and in choosing my 37 I was also getting the newest type of ammo. Many agencies, law enforcement types have adopted not only to Glock but to the new Glocks with the new ammo. Fulton County, Georgia SWAT has adopted to the Gloick 37 and that's good enough for me. Course I'm only protecting my property and do not use a Glock for a living. But if someone sneaks inside my place(I doubt it, more likelyhood of a home invasion, and if so...bring it on) I'm sure that 10 rds of GAP at close range(10 ft or less) would certainly do the job. I would just have to use a whole lot of 409 Multi-Purpose Cleaner to clean up the mess. Semper-Fidelis. CG13.

[jjglock]

cyberghostx13 +1

[Chase7]

Another good comparison between the two here w/+p info..(Links)..

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/45gap.45acp.plusp.htm

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/main.points.for.45gap.html

[cyberghostx13]

Chase7. Thanks for the site/info, I just might so some shopping at "Dirt Cheap". CG13.

[Butch]

:bump:



:patriot:

[g3ninfinite]

Originally posted by cyberghostx13
Well I certainly appreciate all the info on the ammo of the great 45 Caliber. I recently bought a Glock 37 after much internet investigation. I bought my Glock 37 because in California a citizen can only have a 10 round magazine in either rifle or handgun. So I wanted the most bang for my 10 shot only magazine. I guess i could have bought a 45 ACP Glock, but I wanted the newest Glock on the block(37, 38, 39) and in choosing my 37 I was also getting the newest type of ammo. Many agencies, law enforcement types have adopted not only to Glock but to the new Glocks with the new ammo. Fulton County, Georgia SWAT has adopted to the Gloick 37 and that's good enough for me. Course I'm only protecting my property and do not use a Glock for a living. But if someone sneaks inside my place(I doubt it, more likelyhood of a home invasion, and if so...bring it on) I'm sure that 10 rds of GAP at close range(10 ft or less) would certainly do the job. I would just have to use a whole lot of 409 Multi-Purpose Cleaner to clean up the mess. Semper-Fidelis. CG13.



:upeyes:

[Tros]

Now if they'd just make a 6" barrel 37L.......I don't care if "it fits in the box" I want a long slide 45 GAP with a 6" barrel to go with my G17L, everything would be the same except for a bit more weight and I'd forget all about the G24.

It ain't gonna happen but I can still have happy thoughts about it.

Cheers :beer:

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by Butch
You know what?

The .44 Magnum and the .500 Magnum are both higher powered than .45 GAP too!

But they won't fit in a 9mm/.40 S&W sized magazine either!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/44magGlock.jpg

.45 GAP does, and it is very much the equal to the .45 ACP cartridge regardless of whether anyone likes it or not.

And who wants higher velocity? What's wrong with the .45 ACP? It's a great cartridge! It always has been and always will be!

;?

I see little point to the gap. Yes it will fit in a 9mm framed gun with a 45 acp slide. SO where the advantage. Yes you get a slimer grip. But why not just carry a single stack. You only lose two rounds. I see the gap as an answer to a question no one asked.
Pat

[gary newport]

Originally posted by 355sigfan
I see little point to the gap. Yes it will fit in a 9mm framed gun with a 45 acp slide. SO where the advantage. Yes you get a slimer grip. But why not just carry a single stack. You only lose two rounds. I see the gap as an answer to a question no one asked.
Pat

Wrong on this one, Pat. Glock answered MY question with the GAP. I prefer Glocks. I prefer .45. Though I like the .45 ACP Glocks, I prefer the smaller grip, especially of the compact Glocks (and I don't like the subcompact G30 grip nearly as much as the G21). I asked how I could have it all. Enter the G37, G38 (especially) and G39. My question was answered.

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by gary newport
Wrong on this one, Pat. Glock answered MY question with the GAP. I prefer Glocks. I prefer .45. Though I like the .45 ACP Glocks, I prefer the smaller grip, especially of the compact Glocks (and I don't like the subcompact G30 grip nearly as much as the G21). I asked how I could have it all. Enter the G37, G38 (especially) and G39. My question was answered.

I am glad your happy. Personally I prefer the 1911. If I could not carry one I would be quite happy with a Glock 17.
Pat

[gary newport]

Originally posted by 355sigfan
I am glad your happy. Personally I prefer the 1911. If I could not carry one I would be quite happy with a Glock 17.
Pat

Not too long ago, I had five 1911s and no Glocks. I now have a bunch of Glocks and TWO 1911s...and those two are mostly taking up space in my gunsafe!

[Butch]

:bump:




:patriot:

[Bubbala]

I think the chief advantage of the GAP is the smaller format which lends itself to smaller grips & pistols and has appeal to those with smaller hands. While I respect the GAP I do not have small hands and much prefer a larger grip and the time honored tradition of the ACP. The ballistic arguments are pure rhetorical flatulence. Put the same powder in both casings and then you will have an apples to apples argument.

[gary newport]

Originally posted by Bubbala
I think the chief advantage of the GAP is the smaller format which lends itself to smaller grips & pistols and has appeal to those with smaller hands. While I respect the GAP I do not have small hands and much prefer a larger grip and the time honored tradition of the ACP. The ballistic arguments are pure rhetorical flatulence. Put the same powder in both casings and then you will have an apples to apples argument.

That's the point: GAP gives you the same apples in a more size-efficient crate!

[nosuchagency]

nice info Butch. thx for taking time to post results.

[ofcsolo]

I keep reading all these discussions about how 45acp and 45gap are equal only because the 45gap is loaded to +p pressure. Yes the 45acp+p will out run the gap but does anyone actually need and/or carry 45+p? Lets face it and to each his own, but if you need a 45+p it's time to bug out or grab your rifle. ;) I own a 45acp, recently purchased, and I wouldn't feel out gunned with either one. All it boils down to is egronomics. :thumbsup: Just my .02 cents

[Butch]

:bump:



:patriot:

[fortyofforty]

Here are some statistics from Double Tap, one of the specialty companies that tweak loads to squeeze out maximum performance.

.45 GAP:
Bullet : 230gr. Gold Dot JHP
Ballistics : 935fps - 447 ft./lbs. - Glock 37

.45 ACP:
Bullet : 230gr. Speer Gold Dot JHP
Ballistics : 1010fps/ 521 ft./lbs. - 5" 1911

However, bear in mind that the GLOCK 37 has a barrel length of 4.49 inches, a half-inch shorter. To me, this is almost splitting hairs. Two fine rounds. Two fine choices for self-defense. I would not feel undergunned carrying either, but that's just me.