why is the slant muzzle brake tilted to the side?

[haole]

i just picked up my first AK (romanian made). it has a screw-on slant muzzle brake. i noticed, however, that the slant doesn't face directly upward, rather, it is angled slightly to the side.

does anybody know why the slanted muzzle brake was designed this way? does it make any difference if i shoot left or right handed?

[joemerchant24]

Which hand you shoot with will have no effect ont he usefulness of the brake.

The brake is slanted that way to compensate for the twist of the barrel.

As the bullet passes through the rifling, it has a spin imparted to it. Basic physics says that the equal and opposite spin is placed on the barrel (thus the rifle).

This is why full-autos tend to go up and either left or right, depending on barrel twist.

The AK slant brake is designed to prevent twist and climb.

[Victory]

It also directs the flash out of your line of sight somewhat.

[smile_at_u90012]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by joemerchant24
The brake is slanted that way to compensate for the twist of the barrel.

As the bullet passes through the rifling, it has a spin imparted to it. Basic physics says that the equal and opposite spin is placed on the barrel (thus the rifle).

No offense,do u have prove of that? i think you are wrong, the muzzle break compensates for the muzzle climb but reduce no recoil,i am lost about the physic part you mentioned,dont see how the two relate to one another.

[crazymoose]

Joemerchant is correct. Technically, though, the "slant brake" is actually a "slant compensator," since brakes reduce recoil, while comps reduce climb- although you often see combo devices that do both.

The physics involved is the basic concept of torque. Same reason a helicopter needs a tail rotor- when an aircraft/rifle has something spin on it, the object "wants" to spin with it. Hence helicopters need a rotor to keep from spinning around, and guns climb up and to the side, though you only really notice this firing bursts.

[FLIPPER 348]

Originally posted by joemerchant24
Which hand you shoot with will have no effect ont he usefulness of the brake.




incorrect, the slant break is set up to deflect the muzzle down and to the left to best stablize the rifle for a right handed shooter..........and it works well, simple, effective and easily modifyed for a lefty shooter

[joemerchant24]

Originally posted by smile_at_u90012
[QUOTE][i]No offense,do u have prove of that? i think you are wrong, ... i am lost about the physic part you mentioned,dont see how the two relate to one another.

Ever sit in your truck and rev the engine? Unless you have a 4 cylinder, the truck should rock. That's the torque (twist) of the camshaft causing the body to rock. As the horsepower turns the camshaft, pistons, etc, one direction, the truck frame rocks the opposite.

Newton's laws, man. Every force imparts an equal and opposite reaction.

As the bullet passes through the rifling, it has torque applied to it. Newton's laws (I forget which one) says that the barrel has the same amount of torque applied equally in the opposite direction. Now, since the bullet weighs about 123 grains and the rifle and I weigh about 220lbs, the torque felt is negligible. However, on full auto the slant comp (thanks, Moose for the correction) helps negate that twist which is more greatly felt.

Flipper is halfway right in that a righty will be better able to compensate for the climb and twist, but that's not really so much an action of the slant comp as it is the direction of twist Mikhail designed into the AK.

[FLIPPER 348]

the torque theory if true (and I'm a helicopter mechanic so I know about the tail rotor thing) would cause the rifle to twist in-line with the barrel in the.............. opposite direction of the barrel rifleing, like a single engine propeller aitplane that will turn better one way, with the torque, than the other against it............this would be countered by the pistol grip hold

[joemerchant24]

Originally posted by FLIPPER 348
the torque theory if true (and I'm a helicopter mechanic so I know about the tail rotor thing) would cause the rifle to twist in-line with the barrel in the.............. opposite direction of the barrel rifleing, like a single engine propeller aitplane that will turn better one way, with the torque, than the other against it............this would be countered by the pistol grip hold

True.... If torque was the only force at work.

But the twist coupled with the recoil forces driving the barrel up want to push the AK barrel up and to the right. If you look at the slant comp, you see it's designed to push the barrel down and to the left.

It's not a theory, it's physics. If you know any A-10 wrenches, ask them about that 30mm. The recoil and torque affects the flight path of a rather heavy aircraft.

Again, we're not talking huge amounts of torque. 123 grains vs 200lbs isn't much of a battle.

Check out this slow motion video of a .45ACP. Watch the torque in action:

http://www.bsg-dornier.de/schiessen/?/schiessen/filme/filme.htm

[dglockster]

What FLIPPER 348 says: the slant break is set up to deflect the muzzle down and to the left to best stablize the rifle , is true. However, it effectively prevents muzzle climb only when the rifle is fired in the fully automatic mode. Single shots cause recoil but don't really cause muzzle climb. In the semi-auto rifles that civilians can own, the slant brake is more for looks and authenticity than for effect.

[FLIPPER 348]

Twist the slant break off and fire semi auto, you will feel the difference and how effective the break is.

[chevrofreak]

Originally posted by joemerchant24
Ever sit in your truck and rev the engine? Unless you have a 4 cylinder, the truck should rock. That's the torque (twist) of the camshaft causing the body to rock. As the horsepower turns the camshaft, pistons, etc, one direction, the truck frame rocks the opposite.

Newton's laws, man. Every force imparts an equal and opposite reaction.

As the bullet passes through the rifling, it has torque applied to it. Newton's laws (I forget which one) says that the barrel has the same amount of torque applied equally in the opposite direction. Now, since the bullet weighs about 123 grains and the rifle and I weigh about 220lbs, the torque felt is negligible. However, on full auto the slant comp (thanks, Moose for the correction) helps negate that twist which is more greatly felt.

Flipper is halfway right in that a righty will be better able to compensate for the climb and twist, but that's not really so much an action of the slant comp as it is the direction of twist Mikhail designed into the AK.

There is no way in hell a 150gr > bullet is going to create that much torque.

If you ever watch someone (right handed) shoot a full auto AK with no muzzle device it will try to push upward and to the right because it is rotating their body in that direction due to the off-center recoil forces. Since only 12%~ of the world is left handed it makes sense to compensate the rifle for a right handed person. The slant brake pushes down and to the left to try to minimize that.

[FLIPPER 348]

bingo

..and if the AK was a 'straight line' from muzzle -to- butstock (like an AR) there would be no need for a barrel thingy to control the muzzle rise. The break down towards the shoulder off from centerline is enough to give the impluse from the round the power to cause the muzzle rise.


other than that, the AK is perfect. The 'slant break' corrts the minor flaw.

[elgoatropo]

Originally posted by joemerchant24

The brake is slanted that way to compensate for the twist of the barrel.

As the bullet passes through the rifling, it has a spin imparted to it. Basic physics says that the equal and opposite spin is placed on the barrel (thus the rifle).

This is why full-autos tend to go up and either left or right, depending on barrel twist.

The AK slant brake is designed to prevent twist and climb. [/B]

Ima gonna hafta go and call bull on ya. Torque is noticeable on polymer handguns, but not on something as hefty as a rifle.

The recoil hitting your right shoulder and torquing your body to the right... now that's noticeable. Just basic physics ;)

[joemerchant24]

No one has to "believe it or not." You won't hurt my feelings.

Watch someone fire a full auto Uzi or Mac11 sometime. Watch the track of the bullets. Then you can tell me that full autos don't climb up and over.

As I stated in every post. The torque is TOO SMALL to be felt. The human body absorbing the energy equivalent to that on a 123 GRAIN bullet. In semi auto the slant does NOTHING but help keep the muzzle down.

However, the question was not "Why does the slant comp work on my semi?" The question was "Why is the slant comp offset?" It was offset for full auto use.

To repeat: Angle of slant comp does nothing on a semi. It helps in full auto. The torque is too small to be felt, but in full auto does cause the muzlle to rise and move to the side.

If you want to call BS, take a look at your basic physics theory that the backward recoil will hit the right shoulder and cause the body to twist to the right. While that is correct and what happens, what will the slant comp do to remedy that? The recoil is still driving the gun straight back, hence turning the body. The only way to prevent that is to fire the gun from the centerline of your body. The arguement might even be made that the slant comp, by transferring more energy back instead of up, will slightly increase the amount of recoil felt. Thus, increasing the amount of right twist.

But that's just my .02, YMMV.

[elgoatropo]

Originally posted by joemerchant24





If you want to call BS, take a look at your basic physics theory that the backward recoil will hit the right shoulder and cause the body to twist to the right. While that is correct and what happens, what will the slant comp do to remedy that?

While your body is twisting to the right, the muzzle is pushed left by the brake, offsetting the tendency to swing right with your torso. You have to absorb the impulses and spring back, but in the meantime, your muzzle stays on target.

That's how I see it, but I am not an expert. I do notice this right-movement even on semi-auto without a brake.

The bullet torque force is real, but less of a factor in my opinion. You obviously have a working grasp of physics, and I think we are both right, but just don't agree on the relative significance of the two forces.
But that's just my .02, YMMV. [/B]

[crazymoose]

Originally posted by FLIPPER 348
bingo

..and if the AK was a 'straight line' from muzzle -to- butstock (like an AR) there would be no need for a barrel thingy to control the muzzle rise. The break down towards the shoulder off from centerline is enough to give the impluse from the round the power to cause the muzzle rise.


other than that, the AK is perfect. The 'slant break' corrts the minor flaw.

You're telling me an AR has no muzzle rise? I admit it's a small amount, but fire one on auto or burst and you'll notice it. When I'd pop off 3 or 4 round bursts, I'd notice that they tend to string diagonally. The straight-line configuration sure helps with climb, but I wouldn't say it eliminates it.

[MrMurphy]

Try a 12 round or 20 round burst. :)

[FLIPPER 348]

Originally posted by joemerchant24
. In semi auto the slant does NOTHING but help keep the muzzle down.



But that's just my .02, YMMV.

except push the muzzle down and to the left, take it off and feel the difference in semi auto

[dano8801]

Originally posted by smile_at_u90012
[QUOTE]Originally posted by joemerchant24
i am lost about the physic part you mentioned,dont see how the two relate to one another.

If you can't comprehend basic physics or understand how it applies to the firing of your rifle, why are you entitled to an opinion?

[joemerchant24]

Originally posted by dano8801
If you can't comprehend basic physics or understand how it applies to the firing of your rifle, why are you entitled to an opinion?

Why am I entitled to an opinon?

1) This is America. Deal with it.

2) That line was from another poster that was quoted in one of my posts. I believe it was smile_at_u90012.

3) Even if he doesn't understand the physics, which I respect anyone who will admit they don't understand something, he is entitled to an opinion.

Normally, I don't get argumentative in these forums, but inferring people do not have a right to their own opinion is flat wrong. Part of our freedom as Americans is the right to (unpopular) speech.