LWD 3.5# connector double taps in G20

[stevehof]

I tried this post in General Glocking but it probably should have been in gunsmithing from the beginning. This LWD 3.5# connector double tapped every time with one trigger pull in my G20. Can't see why it would. I put a stock 3.5# connector in and the gun was flawless, one trigger pull one shot fired. Any ideas why this LWD connector would cause the pistol to fire twice for each pull of the trigger? I am absolutely positive that the connector was installed properly.<p>
<img border="0" src="http://www.trix.com/sphoto/glock/lwd_con_side.jpg" width="400" height="299"><p>
and
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<img border="0" src="http://www.trix.com/sphoto/glock/lwd_con_top.jpg" width="400" height="299">

[Glock-N-Fun]

stevehof,

Could be that it doesn't have enough tention against the trigger bar on reset,you might try bending just a tad away(just a pinch at a time)from the trigger housing,to allow more tention on the birds head part of the bar.
If the connector is staying to far inside the housing,that is probably the the problem,also make sure it's not just hanging up in the housing.

[English]

Stevehof,
Since this got stranded in General Glocking I've coppied it over here:

This is an interesting problem that is worth theorising about. That is, I don't know the answer but I can suggest some ideas to investigate.

First off, it can only fire a second shot on a single trigger pull if the striker is at least part cocked and released. A problem that follows on from this is that if it fires one extra shot, why does it not fire two, three, and so on? I am not trying to answer this.

When you pull the trigger it slides the tail of the cruciform down off the hood of the striker as the birds head part of the trigger bar is cammed down by the angled cam surface of the connector. The problem then is that the cruciform has to get back up to catch the striker as the slide returns to battery. If it doesn't then the striker is not part cocked on the tail of the cruciform and pulling the trigger will not fire the next shot any more than pulling the trigger on a round which has just failed to fire will then fire in most cases.

Two things flick the cruciform, and all of that end of the trigger bar, up in time to catch the striker. One is the little spring inside the housing that guides the trigger bar cruciform, I'll call the housing the trigger unit. If you look at it you will see that it pulls the trigger bar back and up. If you have just pulled the trigger the trigger bar can't go any further back but it could go up if only it were not held down by the cam surface of the connector.

The trigger bar is released from the connector by the rounded piece that sticks out from the connector being cammed inwards by the ramp in the groove of the slide that it runs in. As the slide recoils, it pushes the connector in towards the centre of the pistol. That is, it's long arm is bent further into its guide slot in the side of the trigger unit. The trigger bar is prevented from following it by the main side of the trigger unit and so it falls off the side of the cam of the connector and flicks upwards.

Now the critical bit! If the rise of the trigger bar is too slow it won't get there in time to catch the striker. If it is slowed just enough to just catch the edge of the striker and then slip off with the vibration as the slide slams into battery then the pistol is likely to fire, though from a lighter than normal strike.

Its rise could be slowed down by having a weak spring in the trigger unit but the spring can't be too weak or it wouldn't work with your other connector.

The next two possibilities are that the trigger bar is held on the cam for too long or that there is some extra friction that slows its rise, or both of course.

To my mind, that is an odd looking connector but I'd like to see it in place in the trigger unit. Compared to other Glock connectors it is narrower over its main arm. This means that it has less torsional stiffness relative to its beam stiffness. Since the rounded tab that cams it back into its slot is off to the side of the spring arm it means that the arm will twist more than the standard form. That means the the trigger bar cam of the connector will be twisted as the arm is bent by the recoiling slide and the trigger bar will fall off the back corner of the connector cam. (Of course this happens to the standard cam as well but the narrower arm should exagerate the effect.) This might just be enough to delay the release. It might also be enough for the trigger bar to rub against the back edge of the connector cam on its flick upwards. Look on the inside edge of the trigger bar where it engages the connector to see if there are vertical rub marks.

There is another problem to the narrow arm. The arm runs in a slot in the plastic trigger unit. That acts as a guide for the arm but it also acts to hold the connector arm in place as the trigger is pulled. Because of the leverage on the trigger there is quite a high force pushing it backwards. It looks as though the thicker top end of the connector will be properly supported but have a look. In particular make sure that the thicker end is not just too wide and is jamming in the guide slot. This could let the trigger bar be released as the trigger is pulled but partly jam it between the connector and the frame.

Thats about as far as I can theorise! Let us know if you get any further.

English

[JR]

Steve: Why didn’t you contact Lone Wolf regarding this problem? Reading about it here will never get it resolved. I can tell you we would be interested in resolving this situation quickly…..if given the opportunity.

English:
1 The thinned connector body is a design Glock used before. You can either coin the body the way current connectors are or reduce it in width to accomplish the same task……see allows it to move easier.
2 If you twist hardened steel it will retain the shape. "Connector twist" was never an issue, if it twisted it would not go back to its original shape.
3 If the connector doesn't fit (push back) into the trigger housing body it cannot reset. Ours fits in the body and is fully supported when in place. This is not a "problem".
4 Theorize away or maybe pick up a connector and check it out for yourself.

FYI: We had some early proto types that did produce doubles in some 2nd gen guns. We changed the raised angled edge and eliminated this (desired/undesired) feature. It is possible a few of these connectors were not destroyed, were left undetected in the polish media, got out as pre distribution samples to other dealers (what ever/how ever). This could also be a problem with a certain serial number range of guns.

How will we ever know if we are not contacted?

[thestrap]

Hey guys, just a quick fyi for you. I did contact LWD as I had the same problem with my gen2 G17 and I must say that they are very impressive with the manner in which this was resolved. They responded to my email amazingly quickly and were genuinely eager to learn more about the problem.. Again, I gotta say they were impressive with their commitment to customer service. Way to go Lone Wolf!!:wow:

Cheers
Bear:)

[stevehof]

JR,

I didn't get the connector from your company directly. I got it from Glockparts.com. The description next to the picture on their web page just says "the 3.5# connector for all models". I didn't know what I actually had until I figured out the LWD stamp on the connector was your company initials. Taking a second look at their web page, I can see that the more complete description on their 'buy' page does list the connector as "made by Lone Wolf".

I never intended to stir the pot. I was just interested to see if others were having similar problems with this connector because I really liked the feel of the pull when it was installed. Originally, all I wanted was a 'factory' 3.5# connector and since I wasn't paying full attention to my original purchase, I got one of yours...I really don’t have time to package the connector and send it back. For $9 it’s just not worth the effort….

[English]

Originally posted by JR

English:
1 The thinned connector body is a design Glock used before. You can either coin the body the way current connectors are or reduce it in width to accomplish the same task……see allows it to move easier.
2 If you twist hardened steel it will retain the shape. "Connector twist" was never an issue, if it twisted it would not go back to its original shape.
3 If the connector doesn't fit (push back) into the trigger housing body it cannot reset. Ours fits in the body and is fully supported when in place. This is not a "problem".
4 Theorize away or maybe pick up a connector and check it out for yourself.

FYI: We had some early proto types that did produce doubles in some 2nd gen guns. We changed the raised angled edge and eliminated this (desired/undesired) feature. It is possible a few of these connectors were not destroyed, were left undetected in the polish media, got out as pre distribution samples to other dealers (what ever/how ever). This could also be a problem with a certain serial number range of guns.

How will we ever know if we are not contacted?

JR,
Relative to (2), I was not suggesting that the connector took a twisted set but trying to find a dynamic reason why there could be a delay in the rise of the trigger bar. If you put a side arm on a leaf spring and then bend the spring with it, the spring will both bend and twist. The leading edge of the twist will obviously be bent further than the trailing edge and so the trailing edge of the cam surface on the connector would delay the release of the trigger bar. If there was extra drag on the trailing edge at the same time, then that would delay it further.

You say you had this doubling problem on some early prototypes which you solved by a change to the angled edge. What change did you make to the design? Did you just shorten the projection of the cam surface a little bit? That would fit my hypothesis. It would be a very small difference.

The more I think about the trigger mechanism design the more ingenious I discover it to be and the more it seems to be a triumph of development over design.

English

[JR]

Steve: You are spending more time monitoring this thread than it would take to drop the connector into a padded envelope and return it to LWD for inspection. I'll be happy to send you a prepaid envelope if you forward your address. I don’t consider this discussion "stirring the pot". If there is a problem I am interested in resolving it. If I know the letter prefix to your gun and have the connector it helps us figure out what happened.

The doubling is a strange occurrence that has happened in 3 guns we know of (including Steves). We have just over 2000 connectors on the street so it seems to be pretty rare occurrence. It may have more to do with 2nd gen trigger housings. I'm talking about the ones that do not have the round hole on back side of the connector slot.

[English]

Originally posted by JR
Steve: You are spending more time monitoring this thread than it would take to drop the connector into a padded envelope and return it to LWD for inspection. I'll be happy to send you a prepaid envelope if you forward your address. I don’t consider this discussion "stirring the pot". If there is a problem I am interested in resolving it. If I know the letter prefix to your gun and have the connector it helps us figure out what happened.

The doubling is a strange occurrence that has happened in 3 guns we know of (including Steves). We have just over 2000 connectors on the street so it seems to be pretty rare occurrence. It may have more to do with 2nd gen trigger housings. I'm talking about the ones that do not have the round hole on back side of the connector slot.

JR,

I would just like to say that I am not attacking you in any way or trying to stir up antagonism. I think your approach is entirely correct. I would just like to know which factors make the difference between doubling and not doubling.

English

[Glock-N-Fun]

English,

Try this test.

Remove the slide,push the connector ear(should have a fare amount of tention) to the left to see how fast a possitive the trigger bar/cruciform pops up.If it pops up fast then your trigger spring is working well.Next,push the upright(the one that push's the firing pin safty in)on the bar forward,the birds eye/bar tail should snap sharply off the face of the bend on the connector and onto the connector's main body/shaft,you should hear a distinctive snapping shound when you push the upright forward.

If the bar/cruciform doesn't pop up fast enough,your trigger spring doesn't have enough powder,or there is to much drag/friction on the bar tail/birds head,possibly from the frame or the ben on the connector.

If you don't hear a distinctive snap when pushing upright on the trigger bar forward,your connector bent in to far into the trigger housing,not creating enough tention on the trigger bar.

At any rate,it sounds like your bar is not popping up fast and high enough to reset for the second shot.

[English]

Glock-N-Fun,

It's not me with the problem! I've just been talking my way round it but your advice is excellent. My Glocks are in Switzerland, thanks to our stupid laws, so I am reduced to theory for 50 or so weeks of the year.

English

[Glock-N-Fun]

Bummer,sorry to hear that.

[Jailer252]

Had a similiar problem with the same connector. although not really a problem. I noticed that coupled with the wolf 4 pound firing pin spring when I would go to reset the trigger quickly I would get the same bang, bang. I promptly put the stock firing pin sping back in and am 100000% pleased. Good Luck.

[lm921]

sell it to me :)

[ColoradoGlocker]

.

[deuce9166]

I got one Thursday, so far I have 300 rounds through it and not one problem. I had a question about the connector and called Friday. I wish I could remember who I spoke to but they were vvery helpful in explaining the connector to me.( "birds head" on the connector is more angled than on my other GLOCKS.) Great product, after another 200 rounds with no problems one is going in to my SRT G35.

JR, glad you are on this site, so I could tell someone how pleased I am with LWD. I think I am going to need at least four more connectors.