CCW Course FRAUD in N.VA

[msc]

Hi All,

A followup to my posts about difficulties with the courts in getting a CCW. My problem turns out not to be with me or the court but with the instructor who taught my "course." Apparently a short time ago all of the judges in Fairfax County decided to stop recognizing the certificates he issues. They said that he is well aware of this, yet continues to say that his course satisfies the requirements to get a CCW in VA.

He also says he is a certified NRA instructor. He is not. At one time he was, but not anymore. I have notified the NRA about this situation and they are looking into it.

I am posting this email, because I took his course and lost $50 and possibly another $50 because I may have to resubmit my application to Fairfax County. I hope that any of you looking to take firearms courses (he teaches about a dozen different ones) will not take one with him.

The instructor's name is <b>Mike Wilson</b>. He resides in Alexandria, VA where he teaches his "course." He teaches the basics of firearm safety and then gives you a piece of paper that is worthless.

He even sends you an FAQ by email saying all sorts of things to look for in a good instructor.

He still advertises his "NRA certified" classes online on packing.org, 2asisters.org, and other websites.

He frequently teaches courses at Gilbert's Small Arms Range in Springfield, VA.

I am now looking for a reputable NRA-certified instructor in the area to take a class before April 20 (that's how long I have to submit a proper training document to Fairfax County). Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Fungunner]

BBSG (http://www.bbsgtrainingteam.com/)

[bigtinva]

That sucks. Is Gilbert's aware that the certificates that he issues are worthless? I would be surprised to hear that they know and continue to let him teach his course there. Have you contacted Mike Wilson about this? I am curious what he has to say for himself.

[Navy87Guy]

Thanks fot the heads up and "naming names" -- guys like that should be, well....you know!

Shooter's Paradise in Woodbridge has a course every Saturday -- give them a call and see if they have an openings.

At least it's good to know that Fairfax wasn't just jerking you around...but it sucks that you're stuck in this position now.

Good luck!

Jim

[msc]

I emailed him when I first got the letter of denial asking him if something was wrong, and again today requesting a refund. I have received no response. If anyone on here has also been duped by this guy and needs more info, send me a PM.

So far today, I have contacted the NRA, 2asisters.org, and posted on several forums that he advertises on. The NRA seemed to already know about this, I emailed their training program coordinator, he's looking into it and is going to mail me a list of all "real" instructors in the area.

Also notified the State of Utah (he's a Utah certified instructor as well). Looks like he won't be one for much longer...

[VPR Victor]

I took a class to get my CCW from BBSG Academy. They have a personal pistol class and home firearm safety class coming up at the Dale City Gun Show on Aril 8-9th.

[alien-Glocker]

There are several places to check for classes with Certified NRA instructors.

Blue Ridge Arsenal in Chantilly offers course regularly.

Shooters Paradise in Woodbridge offers classes most weekends.

Also note, that there are other methods that demonstrate competency in fire arms use, such as hunter safety

Check out the VA state police web site for more.

Link: http://www.vsp.state.va.us/cjis_cwp.htm

[Dan0076]

I'd also contact VCDL and let them know. It would seem to me that it would be a good thing to mention in a VA-ALERT. I'd give them the courts info so they can contact them to verify. Thanks for posting and telling everyone who this scammer is.

[ILL DILL]

I wouldn't be surprised if Gilberts Knows all about him. I have had nothing but trouble with Gilberts on multiple occasions. They are truley low class.

Hopefully you will have better luck else where.

[KONY]

Good luck with this. As for your class, I would consider taking it with these guys ...

http://www.piedmontnrainstructors.org/

They have a Basic Pistol class (I took this one with them) coming up on April 8th. I shoot regularly with several of their instructors and they are nice folks and are legit. Good luck!

[msc]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions on where to find a legit course.

As a followup: The fraudulent instructor contacted me today and told me he would be sending me a full refund. He said that he was aware of a "problem" with Fairfax County, though I think the problem is on his end. And since the Court Clerk told me that all of the judges (I think there are 7) in Fairfax County got together and decided this guy was bogus, I wouldn't be surprised if Arlington, Alexandria, and other courts in the area think the same thing.


He also offered for me to take another course with him and "another instructor" who could provide me with another certificate. I declined and said a refund would be good enough.

Looking back on the situation, he had said in his initial email that he goes to the NRA range and Gilberts. When I took the class, he basically said he uses Gilberts exclusively... I bet the NRA banned him...

Anyway, feel free to spread the word to any instructors, ranges, or people that you know about this guy.

[Slateman]

What does this mean for the other people he instructed? Will Fairfax County revoke their CCWs?

[PaulG]

This is too bad.

I have taken several courses from Mike over the years (First Steps, Basic Rifle, Metalic Cartridge Reloading).

The last course I took from him was a rifle course several years ago.

I have since had numerous courses from other instructors and have become an NRA certified basic pistol instructor.

Looking back at the training I got from Mike, I have to say that he was a good instructor, stressing firearm safety and good technique.

Unless he changed his teaching methods, I don't believe the NRA or anyone else would have trouble with his instruction so I have to believe that he somehow ran afoul of the NRA Training Department and got his credentials revoked or something.

It would be interesting to see what actually happened.

[williamcthomas]

The NRA range in Fairfax has a CCW course every month. Classroom training is always on a monday evening, then on tuesday you schedule an hour of one-on-one range time with an instructor.

Stop by the range for more info or call 703 267-1402.

Good shooting!

[Carlitos]

Perhaps I am wrong, but I thought that VA law did recognize the NRA as the standard for "CCW Training"

Rather, NRA certification only one among many acceptable forms of training?

For example, I completed my CCW training in New York State with a NON-NRA trainer who followed NY state requirements, NOT NRA's. I live in VA and have a VA permit.

Another example: many police officers are never been taught the NRA dogma at all, yet they can submit their LEO credentials and are given a VA CCW? Same with many Military personel? NRA has NOTHING to do with their training, yet they qualify for a VA CCW.

Moreover, many CCW courses use a torso shaped target in training and the NRA is opposed to any civilian using such a target - which is why us civilian CCW holders are banned by the NRA from shooting the NRA's PPC competition.

Frankly, the NRA only allows "Personal Protection IN THE HOME" to be taught to us regular civilians. Using the NRA course in VA is really a fluke. (NOTE: I AM TALKING NATIONAL NRA, and NOT ABOUT MY PERSONAL FRIENDS AT THE RANGE DOWN IN THE BASEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

I am not anti-NRA, but I am very pro-CCW and I think that if we are going to give credit for having CCW in the USA, then credit has to go to those who deserve it. Seems to me that groups like VCDL and GOA have done more to promote CCW than the NRA has.

I'll still support both groups, but can we give credit where its earned and deserved?

D.C. Johnson

[Carlitos]

borrowed this from another thread RE: State requirements:

"From the VA state police web site:

5: Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;

Link: http://www.vsp.state.va.us/cjis_cwp.htm"

[msc]

I actually didn't find the class to be lacking in anything and I'm sure some of the classes he teaches in reloading, rifle, ar-15 and some others are perfectly fine. My point is that none of the handgun or safety classes will be recognized by Fairfax County for a permit.

Since I <i>am</i> getting a refund I guess I can't say any fraud was involved, though there was a slight misrepresentation.

Anybody know when the NRA Range has its next CCW course coming up?

[MADISON]

CCW Course FRAUD in N.VA

dO TWO THINGS:
Notify Virginia's Department of Criminal Justice.
The State legislature is in sesson. Notify your representatives.

[SRS]

I am sorry to hear about your problems with your permit. When I started investigating obtaining a permit, I contacted Mr. Wilson after receiving one of his brochures and was placed on his email list. I decided against taking his class for several reasons. Hopefully, you will be able to get this resolved with a minimum investment of additional time and money.

[RandySmith]

Anybody know when the NRA Range has its next CCW course coming up?

Did you ever find an instructor? There is a very good T/C in Centreville.

PM your contact info and I will forward to him.

Randy

[msc]

Update to my situation:

Bad news: still searching for a quick course to meet my April 24 deadline

Good news: The instructor in question refunded my full $50 that I paid for the course. If anyone else is in the same situation I was, ask for a refund, if you don't get it, then its <i>really</i> fraud.

[RandySmith]

Originally posted by msc
Bad news: still searching for a quick course to meet my April 24 deadline.


I offered to help you. Did you miss the message above your last post?

Randy

[vafish]

Contact either of the trainers listed here:

http://www.arlingtonfairfax-iwla.org/education.html

See if they can get you a class. Range is in Centreville.

[vaglockowner]

I too was going to take the course with Mike Wilson in April, but he cancelled a couple of weeks before the course was to take place, and said he could no longer teach classes in April, but did not give a specific reason. So, he passed me onto another instructor, which included going to the NRA range. I sure hope my Cert is legit.... I submitted it for my CCW this past week.

[gman79]

From what I understand, Mike Wilson has a pretty good reputation in the NoVA area. When I was researching classes for my CCW permit back in October, a lot of them were full and referred me to him. That said, I opted not to take his class because he sends you this 97 page "FAQ" word document that goes into WAY too much detail about gun ownership, himself, crime statistics and other things irrelevant to the specific purpose I needed him for. Moreover, if you decide to NOT take his class after inquiring about it, he asks you to send him an e-mail explaining why you decided against taking it with him. He also offers to drive you to and from the class... For some people, that might be just what they are looking for... but for me, it came across as desperate and, quite frankly, a little creepy.

[vaglockowner]

I felt the same with his Faq. A bit over the top, but I can see where that might be helpful to some.

[Jake-Gallows]

Originally posted by MADISON
CCW Course FRAUD in N.VA

dO TWO THINGS:
Notify Virginia's Department of Criminal Justice.
The State legislature is in sesson. Notify your representatives.

Just being curious, but what can the DCJS do about this? Aren't they just over private security, police, corrections and such?

[Mary]

Me and my friends took Mr. Wilson's class recently. We all think Mr. Wilson is a great teacher. BTW, we had no problems getting our permits approved by the courts in Fairfax, Loudoun and Prince William counties.

[vafish]

Originally posted by Mary
Me and my friends took Mr. Wilson's class recently. We all think Mr. Wilson is a great teacher. BTW, we had no problems getting our permits approved by the courts in Fairfax, Loudoun and Prince William counties.


Did Mr. Wilson claim he was an NRA certified instructor?

Did he claim the class he was teaching you was an NRA training class?

Did he give you an NRA certificate with the gold seal?

On what range did he teach the shooting portion of the class?

I'm not saying Mr. Wilson is not a great teacher. I'm questioning what class he is teaching and what certificate he is issuing that the courts are now accepting.

[RussP]

I'm going to close this, as it seems there may be some issues not appropriate to open forum discussion...