350 vs a 454? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Glock19Fan
03-26-2006, 12:47
Hey! I bought a 79 Chevy Cheyenne a couple of weeks ago, and I am wanting to fix it up to be a drag racer.

It came with a 350, and it is alright, but I want more speed/power/ect. I was thinking about getting a 454, but I keep on hearing that a 350 can be fixed up to be better than a 454, or at least as good.

Does anyone know about this? Also, if I do get a 454, I will most likely build it from scratch. What would this cost?

Also, does anyone know where a good forum is for souped up street trucks?

Thanks!

norton
03-26-2006, 14:13
Originally posted by Glock19Fan
Hey! I bought a 79 Chevy Cheyenne a couple of weeks ago, and I am wanting to fix it up to be a drag racer.

It came with a 350, and it is alright, but I want more speed/power/ect. I was thinking about getting a 454, but I keep on hearing that a 350 can be fixed up to be better than a 454, or at least as good.

Does anyone know about this? Also, if I do get a 454, I will most likely build it from scratch. What would this cost?

Also, does anyone know where a good forum is for souped up street trucks?

Thanks!

sorry I can't help you out, but while doing an insurance inspection at a tire dealership, I ran across a rail dragster in the back of the shop. the owner told me his son runs at local drag strips, and the engine is a 454.

triggerjerk
03-27-2006, 18:04
All other things being equal, a 454 has more potential than a 350.

It all depends upon how much you want to spend.

For a drag vehicle a big block is hard to beat though.

Scoggins Dickey sells/used to sell a forged 454HO shortblock for around 3 grand. Spend another couple grand on heads and a big roller cam and you'd have a stout engine.
http://www.sdpc2000.com/

Active1
04-01-2006, 02:17
There is a lot more to it then just the block. Like compression, valves, cam, heads, intake, ehaust. Like said the BB has more potential. It is also more stronger. But heavier. Pound for pound with mild modifications the 350 is not bad. The bigest key is the comperssion. In the late 80's the 454 were boat anchors with compression around 8-1. Compare that to a 350 with 10 or 10.5-1 mildly built and it's good to go.

I have built up pick ups before but IMO they are just not made for the drag strip. Overall they are heavier than a car but still light on the back end. They can not steer or handle as well as a car.

For a drag car you would be better off with a built up SB in a striped down small or mid size car. For handeling aroung corners the small block is better unless your talking all allumimn.

If you want displacement they have SB that are in the 400's. Then again the BB's can go in the 500's CI.

Guess you need to figure a budget and a speed goal with what ever vehicle.

Are we talking 14, 13, 12's or lower in the quorter mile? Sure everyone wants the fastest but there are trade offs. Like cost, reliability, idle quality, fuel econimy, maintence, handeling, noise, and cold weather driving.

I kina hated having a big cam with the feeling like it was about to stall at every stop.

Glock19Fan
04-01-2006, 16:04
I might go to the local drag strip with it, but im not sure.

As far as speed, I would rather have a faster 0-60 excelleration than speeds over 80. I probably wont be driving it much though, and fuel efficency isnt a big problem.

My budget is roughtly 2500 or so.

I also want something purdy. If I do build it myself, I have thought about getting as many things chrome finished as possible. I like shiny. :)

I know cars would be better for this, but I am a pick-up man myself.

I also plan on making it look like a show car, but maybe a little later.

However, right now I am not very familar with engines at all. I am just getting into them, so I will need a lot of help before doing this. My step dad is pretty knowledgable with Chevys, and he said he will help me, but I would prefer to learn before hand to save time actually working on it.

Active1
04-01-2006, 16:25
For $2500 I would stay with the engine you have.
If the basic engine is strong you can do the following:
Headers, mufflers, cam, lifters, roller chain, AL intake, performace tune-up, distributor, coil, flex fan, carb.

Maybe a torque converter if you want to go thru the trouble.

You would still have some $ to freshen up the engine, a shift kit, or rear end posi & gears depending on what is needed.

My guess is with that you may be lower 14's if it is running strong and getting traction.

The key to 0-60 is traction (tires, rear weight, & posi), cam timming, cam, and rear axle gearing.

walkin' trails
04-05-2006, 14:55
A big block is going to crank out a whole lot more torque than a small block. Your 79 Chevy is not a lightweight, and about as aerodynamic as a brick to boot, so it'll need a lot of torque to get it off the line quickly. I guess its just a matter of how quick do you want to be. And as was previously stated in other posts, all that power is useless if you can't get any traction.

Active1
04-05-2006, 20:12
If you go to this site:
http://www.dragtimes.com/

You can search 1/4 mile times for most makes including P/U. It will have the drag strip details and information as to what was done to the vehicle. I seen some 350 p/u normialy asporated that were claiming in the 13's. Some would tell you gear ratio, cam size, etc. You might even email them for more details.

Tom

loki993
04-06-2006, 16:43
My budget is roughtly 2500 or so.

i doubt you cound even get the parts for a 454 for that. maybe a used one. yes you will need lots of tourque to get the truch going, but it sounds to me like you just want to make it faster and it dosnt really matter how much faster. stick with the 350 and freshen it up, it will be fine, good heads good cam and youll be in business.

heres a few forums
http://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/
http://www.neufamily.org/forum/

these guys mostly talk lsx engines but the same basic stuff applies.

as for anyone that says trucks cant be fast parrish, hes the moderator on performance trucks and the neufamily one is his, he has an 03 silvarado 4x4 that runs 10s in the quarter last i saw.

loki993
04-06-2006, 16:45
another option may be a caddilac 500 out of an old eldorado or something. these things are tourque monsters and are not that much bigger than a 350.

TexasGlock23
04-07-2006, 17:25
I would go with a built 350! It is less weight and with the RIGHT person building the motor, it can be exactly what you want. Head on over to here www.fullsizechevy.com my sn is jared1217. You can get better help and parts there. BTW I drive an '89 K1500. If you need parts let me know, I work for O'reilly's. We have everything.

Jared

TexasGlock23
04-07-2006, 17:26
But if you are real serious, get a 572;)

BPMACMAN
04-08-2006, 04:12
when it comes to drag racing remember...there is no substitute for cubic inches....none...
it will take large amounts of cash to build a sb up to 500 hp,almost double that it would take to get a bb up to 500.
contrary to other statements made there are parts aplenty for the bb...speed costs...how fast did you say you want to go ??

Heavy Barrel
04-08-2006, 12:33
Personally I would not even consider a Cadillac [they are 472 and 500cu.in]They make a lot of torque but that is at 3000 rpm's and lower.The 4" plus stroke is what kills them.The 70 500" is/was the highest hp rating,400.You can make that easily out of a well done 350.The Cadillac is not a real good motor for drag racing.Check and you will find they don't have a very good following.I would stick with the 350.Build it right,small block parts are cheap plus you won't have any problems with mounting or transmissinm fitting issues.

Active1
04-08-2006, 12:47
Remember G19 said he had a $2500 budget. Also that he would rather have a faster 0-60 excelleration than speeds over 80. And he also planed on making it look like a show car, but maybe a little later.

It does not sound like he is planing too much time at the strip. More of a street rod stop light racer. $2500 don't get you very far. To switch to a different engine can add to the cost unless you get someting complete with accesories and brackets. Putting all the money in the motor is a waist if you only have an open axle. It's dangerous if the steering and brakes are not up to par. A new or remanufactured big block is out of the price range once your done. Only chance is a used one. The problem is you don't want one from the last 20 years because you can afford to raise the low compression. If you got a boneyard with 1970's LS6 sitting around for cheap then go for it. But don't hold your breath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Big-Block_engine
454
The big-block was expanded again for 1970 to 454 in (7.4 L) with a 4.251 in (108 mm) bore and 4 in (102 mm) stroke. The 1970 Corvette LS5 engine produced 390 hp (291 kW) and 500 ftlbf (678 Nm). There was a one-off LS7 which was tuned for performance, with 465 hp (347 kW) and "just" 490 ftlbf (664 Nm). But included was the king of muscle car engines, the LS6 454. This engine produced 450 hp (336 kW), but replacing the headers could bring it up to 500 hp (373 kW).

Power began falling off after 1970, with the 1971 LS5 producing 365 hp (272 kW) and 465 ftlbf (630 Nm), and the new LS6 option coming in at 425 hp (317 kW) and 475 ftlbf (644 Nm). Only the LS5 remained in 1972, now at just 270 hp (201 kW) and 390 ftlbf (529 Nm). The 1973 LS4 was at 275 hp (205 kW) and 390 ftlbf (529 Nm), with 5 hp (4 kW) and 10 ftlbf (14 Nm) gone the next year. 1974 was the last year of the 454 in the Corvette.

GM continued to use the 7.4 L 454 in their truck line, introducing a new Vortec 7400 version in

1996.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_C/K
A 230 hp (172 kW) 7.4 L V8 came in 1990

In other words eather you need to get just the right rare BB. Or start with a bare block and build it up with new pistons, machine work, cam, rebuild kit, maybe maybe heads on top of the normal street rod parts.

loki993
04-10-2006, 11:56
Personally I would not even consider a Cadillac [they are 472 and 500cu.in]They make a lot of torque but that is at 3000 rpm's and lower.

there are people out there that do race them. yes they make tons of tourqe down low, but in a truck thats what he would need. they dont have a large following because most people dont know their pontential and when they hear 500cid they think huge big block. the cad 500 is more like a "medium" block. its really not much bigger than a 350 and dosnt weigh much more either.that said thought, i do consider the cad 500 to be better suited to 4 wheeling than racing, but ill tell you what, you can get them cheap, it will drop right into his truck, you can make stupid tourqe with a head swap you can get form the junkyard, and its very unique. that said they make mean 4X4 motors.