The new USAF ABU is ready [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : The new USAF ABU is ready


Black Tiger
03-27-2006, 22:36
Well, the USMC got their MARPATs, the US Army has their ACU; even the Navy has their own digital uniform...

But what about the USAF???

The answer is YES...

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/060317-F-0000R-001.jpg (http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060317-F-0000R-001.jpg)
CLick image for Hi-Res image.

The new Airman Battle Uniform is ready for production and will be available in fiscal 2007. The new uniform design is a pixilated tiger stripe with four soft earth tones consisting of tan, gray, green and blue. The ABU will have a permanent crease and will be offered in 50-50 nylon-cotton blend permanent press fabric eliminating the need for winter and summer weight uniforms. The current projected mandatory wear date for the new ABU is fiscal 2011. The only thing that needs to be determined is if patches will be worn and the Air Force chief of staff will make that determination soon.


I was over at Mc Dill AFB last week to check the availability of the Army ACUs (I'm in the US Army Reserves) and I saw the final design of the fabric; Digital Tiger Stripes? Hmmm, never thought about that one.
The new uniform is reminiscent of the Old Tiger Stripe uniforms worn by USAF Para Rescue guys and the US Navy SEALs back in Vietnam.

Well, one thing's for certain, it looks far better than the first prototypes:

http://orientalredneck.blogspot.com/graphics/New%20USAF%20uniform.jpg
Blue Tiger Stripes??? You have got to be kidding me! :shocked:
(Couldn't wear those with a straight face :supergrin: )

USMC03Grunt
03-28-2006, 08:16
The things that pisses me off is that Chief Murray pretty much nixed the idea of updating the design to have pockets on the upper sleeve so we can keep on sewing on patches on the sleeves citing that it's an Air Force tradition. Hell, transition is our tradition so why not get the stuff the PJs, TAC-P, cops and combat weathermen want and NEED on the new uniforms rather than clinging to outdated designs simply for the sake of some desk-bound poages idea of what constitutes "tradition". :dunno:
Next, while anything is better than the smurf slaughter suit, is pixilated tiger-stripes really the best way to go here? "Oh but gee, it looks really cool and stuff":rollingeyes: Really? Well, what way do shadows run in nature? Up and down right? So why are they insisting on a uniform that is polarized to that effect? There is only one reason and that the powers that be think that the air of SEALs, LRRPs and Air America stuff from Vietnam is still a cool look and want to keep it around no matter how impratical it is or how many casualties it causes simply because somebody wanted to leave their mark on air force history! :soap:

DJ Niner
03-29-2006, 02:43
Hey, when the bullets start flying, you'll be on your belly or your back soon enough (of your own accord, or not).

I'd rather have the cammy pattern oriented so when I'm TRYING to burrow into the local weedpatch, they match. When I'm standing/walking around, I look nothing like anything normally seen in the woods/fields (or so I'm told). :supergrin:

Four_T_Five
03-29-2006, 19:06
Originally posted by USMC03Grunt
The things that pisses me off is that Chief Murray pretty much nixed the idea of updating the design to have pockets on the upper sleeve so we can keep on sewing on patches on the sleeves citing that it's an Air Force tradition. Hell, transition is our tradition so why not get the stuff the PJs, TAC-P, cops and combat weathermen want and NEED on the new uniforms rather than clinging to outdated designs simply for the sake of some desk-bound poages idea of what constitutes "tradition". :dunno:
Next, while anything is better than the smurf slaughter suit, is pixilated tiger-stripes really the best way to go here? "Oh but gee, it looks really cool and stuff":rollingeyes: Really? Well, what way do shadows run in nature? Up and down right? So why are they insisting on a uniform that is polarized to that effect? There is only one reason and that the powers that be think that the air of SEALs, LRRPs and Air America stuff from Vietnam is still a cool look and want to keep it around no matter how impratical it is or how many casualties it causes simply because somebody wanted to leave their mark on air force history! :soap:
PJs, CCT, TACPs, etc. likely will not be wearing this in the field. They already sew pockets onto the shoulders of the BDUs and DCUs. Even if they wear these new non-tactical fatigues they will still modify them. They will get whatever they need to do their mission I can assure you.

Now... as to the overall process of having each of the services field their own unique uniforms... I cannot believe the SECDEF has not quashed this nonsense already. It makes no sense for two reasons.

1) Fratricide. It has always happened, and will always happen. But, we can certainly minimize it. It is bad enough our troops have to be able to recognize the different uniforms worn by our allies, but now they have to be able to tell the Army, Marine Corps, AF and Navy fatigues apart while under stress and looking down the sights of a weapon. Utterly stupid IMO.

2) Cost/Logistics. When we all wear DCUs or BDUs we only have to purchase and stock one set of uniforms. Now we have to buy smaller ammounts of each service uniform (and boots) which means more money will be spent. Additionally, the LG folks in theater have to order, track and maintain four sets of uniforms where before it was one. It's like we have all taken a giant step backwards for the sake of the services being more recognizable. I don't have a problem with the day to day garrison wear of unique uniforms (AF blues, Army puke greens, Marine/Navy khakis, charlies, etc.), but no service deploys by itself any more. We all go to war jointly... why would our battle uniforms not be standardized??

srfl
03-30-2006, 10:30
I'm an IMA at MacDill; I recall when MacDill's mil clothing and sales had a full-sized dummy wearing the blue TS uniform and it being the most horrible thing I had ever seen. A buddy of mine (former Marine) saw the uniform and was laughting so hard that everyone was staring at him.

Joey
04-01-2006, 14:07
The AF has said they designed the new uniform for the 97% of the AF that never deploys or goes in harms way.

Shows ya what the think about the other 3% that go in harms way for the AF.

It's all about armchair commandos getting medals for designing and fielding a new uniform.

Hell, the USAF is having a world wide X here and my VFD is taking part cuz the X is centered around a major intersection in our jurisdiction, but the HQ weenie that drew up the senario did not look for any imput and he not only is dead wrong how the X is designed. We have already been told we have to follow the script exactly even if it's not realistic or how we would do it in real life.

It's all about people wanting medals and looking important so they get promoted not about doing **** the right way.

tyesai
04-01-2006, 15:15
What we have now is better than that smurf suit they came up with first.

Joey
04-01-2006, 16:27
Originally posted by tyesai
What we have now is better than that smurf suit they came up with first.

So, is "better" the best way to look at this??

When the AF adopted the BDU it was the smartest way to go as all the services had the same uniform & the same thing with the DCU's.

However, now look at the mess the mc peak folowers have made of the AF uniform, what's next:frown: :frown:

I'm so glad I retired when I did, it really sucks watching the AF spirial down the tubes and turn into a blue suit corperation and not a military.

srfl
04-01-2006, 21:04
Originally posted by Joey
(SNIP)
However, now look at the mess the mc peak folowers have made of the AF uniform, what's next:frown: :frown:
(SNIP)

Oh my God, I was talking about General Mcpeak to my GF just yesterday. I mentioned to her the debacle regarding the Class A jacket, the goofy flight suit (with epaulets and a permanent crease/fold) and having to removing the U.S. AIR FORCE and name tags in favor of the leather aircrew-type tag.....ugh.

tyesai
04-01-2006, 22:49
Originally posted by Joey
So, is "better" the best way to look at this??

When the AF adopted the BDU it was the smartest way to go as all the services had the same uniform & the same thing with the DCU's.

However, now look at the mess the mc peak folowers have made of the AF uniform, what's next:frown: :frown:

I'm so glad I retired when I did, it really sucks watching the AF spirial down the tubes and turn into a blue suit corperation and not a military.

I guess better is the way to look at it. Listen, I am no longer "into it", I sometimes wish I would have called it good after 8 but I am to far into it now to not go the 20. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do but the longer I am in and the more rank I get I don't see alot of things the way the military does. That said.

The Fair Force is trying hard to be the "real military", but it won't happen till us 10 years and over guys get out.

This stuff about having all of us be a M.P. and serve for base defense won't cut it for sometime. Part of the reason I joined the Air Force was because we didn't run and do P.T. test 12 years ago. That crap was for the Army, we flew and fixed planes.

Morris
04-03-2006, 05:39
Memories! LOL. McPeak was a jackass. Anyone remember why we went to V neck white t-shirts with the short sleeves? Or how about the airline jacket with NOTHING on them, save medals. That whole leather name crew debacle was so stupid and expensive. We were paying out of pocket for the BS things and the zeros would get mad because you couldn't read the da^n rank.

I started with pickle suits. They worked, especially on a flight line turning wrenches. Left the TACP world in BDUs. I can remember the excuse given for why everyone was to go to all woody BDUs - ease up on the log train (as previously mentioned, one cost, multiple services).

Big discussion about this at the ROMAD board.

BilltheCat
04-13-2006, 19:15
I guess life was easier for uniforms in the 70's. Green utilites and cammos for overseas service. I never once used my Class A.

Most of the time it was T shirt or bare chest anyway. I do remember a dark blue dress shirt with dark blue tie in the dark blue class a jacket. Kinda sexy. I never got to wear one tho. Too hot!

meeko
04-16-2006, 19:49
After 20 years service in both active and ANG I've noticed a few things.

1. "The Air Force 58 years untouched by tradition"

2. We need more than poster children with good paperwork and
test well on WAPs to run the force.

3. I wish GEN Lemay could come back and straighten this mess out.

4. Why are we getting an improved combat uniform and still are worried about looking just right.only in the AF

Everything you guys are saying is pretty much right on. I have spent my whole time as a Security Forces troop and have seen everything do a 180 and then back. The only time it wasn't a total mess was the 7 years I spent in SAC. SAC had some issues but not like the new commands or troops do. I was activated after 9/11 and got deployed to qatar and actually got approched in the chow hall when my fire team and I were eating and asked "what are you doing with all of those weapons in here" someone later complained to wing safty and we were "directed" that the M203 gunner had to leave his can of 203 rounds at the US compound checkpoint for "safty". seams this new generation was afraid they would just jump up and go off. Its funny though we can drive them in a Hummer in 130 degree heat all day getting banged around an it not go off but bring them into a chow hall and they are unstable. I think it will be an eye opener when every AMN becomes a cop.

Sorry I strayed a little from the post but really nothing surprises me in the AF anymore. I think I'm ready to retire and just remember the "good times" At least before Rumsfield does away with us for that unmaned robot force. I'm sure he'll keep a few humans around to blame when something goes wroung.

tyesai
04-17-2006, 11:15
What is that "every Airmen becomes a cop" about? I remember seeing it on the front to Air Force times but didn't really pay much attention to it and haven't heard that phrase since? I did a quick search at the af.mil and googled at and got a bucket of nothing.

MrMurphy
04-17-2006, 12:35
Everyone is supposed to have an action post in defense of the base, instead of hiding under their desks.

Everyone is "supposed" (yeah right) to get an M16, have it zeroed to them, etc and know how to do basic infantry tactics. Everyone is supposed to report odd stuff to us SF (like they're SUPPOSED to do already). Etc Etc.

USMC03Grunt
04-17-2006, 14:54
Whoo, this ought to be good! Lets take the med groups, CE, services and all the other Cat. C shooters out there (and looking over our 710s, there's a LOT of them) and give them weapons and expect them to do something more than fill body bags. When I first started this CATM gig, I had high expectations of the majority of shooters on my block qualifying and most of them making expert. Today, reality has set in and days I don't get lost, dazed and confused looks on shooters faces when their weapon malfunctions (and I'm standing over there yelling, "SPORTS!!! SPORTS!!!") or having a loaded weapon in the hands of shooters shakey as Parkinson's disease patients start pointing uprange is a good day.
The biggest problem (and I'll go to my grave shouting this) is Cat. C shooters qualifying only once every 3 years and the brunt of them will not touch a weapon until they qualify again in another 3 years. This is no different than going ot for a PRT test only once every 3 years, sitting behind a desk with no PT time at all then be expected to pass the PRT test 3 years later. If they really want this idea of "everyone a cop" BS to actually work, they are going to have to start training people for real rather than going to the range every 3 years or pencil-whipping their 623s!:soap:

tyesai
04-17-2006, 14:59
Originally posted by MrMurphy
Everyone is supposed to have an action post in defense of the base, instead of hiding under their desks.

Everyone is "supposed" (yeah right) to get an M16, have it zeroed to them, etc and know how to do basic infantry tactics. Everyone is supposed to report odd stuff to us SF (like they're SUPPOSED to do already). Etc Etc.

I could probably deal with that without freezing up or being to scared. But they better give me lots more training. I haven't shot M16 in over 4 years. I am a AETC instructor so non mobility but even before that being an aircraft maintenance guy I only had to qualify every two years. If they want me to play army guy I want the training and I want to shoot.

As far as reporting odd stuff I haven't been to the AOR in the last few years but it seems like it gets reported home station. Hell I love finding a helping hand and watching some poor guy get held at gunpoint on the flight line. Makes me laugh everytime.

tyesai
04-17-2006, 16:22
One more thing I just thought of. I have been in for almost 13 years and never shot a weapon on burst or if equiped full auto.

My ex-wife was in high ROTC. She had fired the M-16 on auto mode.

I know auto is more of a novelty that the civilian sector wishes for because it is cool. But really if ya think about it is a little glimpse of insight into my training.

The more I think about it the more I think it won't work unless the Fair Force is ready to up weapons training. Don't go thinking I am going to just grab a gun and take up my shoot "Haji" position only shooting a weapon every two years and never on auto. Seems like a big frieking joke to me.

And to get back on track the new uniforms are ugly but at least it will save on dry cleaning.

Joey
04-17-2006, 17:10
Originally posted by tyesai
And to get back on track the new uniforms are ugly but at least it will save on dry cleaning.

Want to bet, when the BDU's 1st came out we were told Do NOT starch & 35-10 even said NO STARCH, but guess what the poges in high places did, they got around the no starch issue till it was removed and you put starch in you're BDU's.

tyesai
04-17-2006, 17:51
Originally posted by Joey
Want to bet, when the BDU's 1st came out we were told Do NOT starch & 35-10 even said NO STARCH, but guess what the poges in high places did, they got around the no starch issue till it was removed and you put starch in you're BDU's.

Your probably right, but I will be out 2 years after the mandatory wear dates so hopefully it will take at least that long.

I don't know what poges stands for but I am sure you could sub in military politician, tool, profesional volunteer, desk jockey, they probably all would work.

But we won't have to shine the boots. But like I said before, god help you when they get oily, dirty, hydraulic fluid, grease, yadaydaydya on them.

Morris
04-17-2006, 18:52
Pogues. A close cousin to the REMF.

meeko
04-17-2006, 20:12
Every AMN a COP! USMC03GRUNT was right on. It will be interested to see how they do it. If we are allowed to teach and practice motor skill and such. The latest out of the Security Forces confrence is cat C is being done away with. If that is people will have to get out and "shoot" unless like everything else in the AF they waiver or use the CATS/FATS simulator.

As a career cop one thing I don't understand. Just compairing I spent several years on an EST teams did peacekeeper Challange, Giant Sword and all of the supposedly high speed stuff. I am on a SWAT team for a civillian federal agency now. We normally go thru 8,000 to 15,000 rounds in one day. We train normally two days a month with one day being at th. range. We have 12-18 members on trainig day depending on vacations, injuries etc. if I asked for that many rouns the AF would think I was nuts. I tried to get extra round so the troops could do a little more than the 60 rounds a year for the M9 and got that funny look. On my civillan team we even repel and use simunitions with MP5s and Sig's. I wish the AF would get serious about thier weapons program like that. At least for the ones that prove they won't poke an eye out.

meeko
04-17-2006, 20:29
Forgot something! GEN Holmes the top AF COP was a prior Combat Controller. he came up with the evry AMN a cop thought. I sort of liked what I read about him bt he is now out. the AF just announced a new GEN will replace GEN Holmes in June. I believe its pronounced Herzog. A lady out of Lackland. we'll see if this will stay the course.
The thing I liked about Gen holmes is he thought outside the box. The SF carrer field has been stagmented for years with the same "establishment' runing things. My Chief was under the impression the SF O6 community didn't like an outsider. Gen Holmes did have another point. I don't have the exact numbers but Holmes wanted to know since we had approximatly 21-22,000 AF Security Force members. Of these 21-22,000 only approximatly 8,00 can be deployed. Their is an overage of "back office" type positions and such. There are several priority posts of course like SF assigned nuclear resources and such that can't be deployed. However that is pretty bad when we can't manage the numbers right. I think that is why the idea to start every AMN a cop thing moving.

USMC03Grunt
04-17-2006, 21:54
Yeah, Gen. Hertzhog (sp) was out there when I went through cop school (that was 3 months of my life I can never get back again!:frown: ) and from what I know, she's a cop too. How much being at an AETC command effected her has yet to be seen I guess. Sorry but I'm NOT wearing those damn silly elbow and knee pads again!:clown:

Morris
04-17-2006, 22:35
I left a CATM shop in 1992, disgusted with the entire program (fellow red hats were great but we all saw the fallacy of the program - you could hear LeMay spinning so fast in his grave . . .). I remember that BS 10% brass count (brass collected had to be within 10% of the actual expected brass weight - no stealing brass from Uncle Sugar you know!). Went on to TACP but that wasn't much better. You had a Cat A status but the CoF/Qual was so pathetic, it was laughable. I can remember deploying to an integrated National Guard NTC rotation in 1996. We were issued a whopping 10 rounds of blanks. That's it. We just sit on the top of the hummers and scream "bang! bang!" at the top of our lungs, laugh and walk away. Both an AF and Guard thing.

I had truely hoped, after my exit in 1999, that the AF would get serious about the mission and everyone being an asset protector, especially in a post 9/11, rapid deployment mindset. Instead, fancy new ABUs, same ole push button mentality. Shame, really. The AF can dump a Mk82 like no end in sight but squibble over some ammo. The cost of a dumb 82 would equal the ammo expendeture for a wing of button pushers.

USMC03Grunt
04-18-2006, 00:10
That's the problem I run into with a lot of shooters at the range. The mentality of "what do you think we are, Marines?" and of course I have to say absolutely not in no way shape or form are you anything that resembles a Marine!:supergrin: The majority of our shooters believe that they really don't need to know how to shoot because they think they are going to be in the rear sending the planes out without having to worry about enemy contact and even if the base is attacked, SF will repel them. Two problems with that mentality. First, Iraq today doesn't have a FEBA, front line or whatever you choose to call it. We are fighting insurgents and guerillas that can slip through our lines and hit any target at any time. Second, what you are telling me is that you are willing to put your life in our hands in the hopes that we don't get over run. Sorry but I really don't like the idea of having to trust my life to somebody else when I can take steps to take care of myself. No, I can't operate on myself nor can I fly a C-130 but anybody can learn to protect themselves in the event we are over run. I hate to say this and Lord knows I wish no ill on any of our people but I think it's going to take another Tet offensive where we can fill a lot of body bags to get these idiots to wake up,smell the coffee and realize that this is the ARMED forces and you had better damn well be prepared to be armed and stand up for yourself!:soap:

MrMurphy
04-18-2006, 08:39
Herzog used to run the SFS at Langley and other places. I've read her bio and she was the base boss when I was there in tech school (back in October). She had just gotten her star. Seems to have her stuff together.


With this everyone in basic gets an M16 thing, where they fieldstrip them several times a day and learn basic infantry stuff (more than they did before), it might work. at least they'll know which end the bullets come out of.

Sadly though I've got cops "I" work with, who despite having a fairly high speed flt. Commander (ex-CRG, EST, knows his stuff) and has us training in CQB tactics, MOUT, etc (stuff you use downrange), basically their attitude is "this is stupid..... most of us are just going to sit behind the fence over there anways" (and this from those who've deployed). He's trying to train us for those who DON'T just sit behind the fence (we've got guys from our squadron doing house raids and patrols 2km outside the wire in places)...

But complacency happens. And Complacency Kills.

I get called Rambo and Supercop cause I do my job properly, don't pencilwhip stuff (the sgt's are starting to catch on and people who dont' do their jobs are getting nailed), and I wear my M-4 where I can use it, slung properly. Not across my back, upside down barrel sideways or some crap like that. (we have those people too).

Sadly I've fired 16 live rounds since I got here, about 450 blanks (due to playing opfor, where I got like 14 full mags), and that's it. We've got guys who are righty-but-lefty-dominant etc who can't qual on an M4 and the CATM guys won't "Waste rounds" trying to figure out how else to get them to qualify. Some are only qualified on the 249 or 60 (kind of hard to miss). Sad.

meeko
04-20-2006, 04:39
My ANG SF squadron has a 13 man squad activated and are in the AOR at Qatar right now. We had newer gen tac vests for everyone in the sq. We even bought a newer gen tac vest at the guard buearu's urging for our deploying folks. Then when our guys got to Qatar the SF command "directed" them to store the vest and they are now issued the old Y harness and two M-16 pouches. They also have to wear them the same. Thats just like a typicle cop commander/leadership. 130 degree heat and they are worried about 'looks". Its funny on my civillian agency's swat team we don't sweat the small stuff. What works for me might not work for you holster placement (thigh vs waist) mag placement, flashbang placement etc.

I'm sure Mr. Murphy's co workers can't help but feel they will never use good training when they deploy. Go anywher in the AF and you'll find most cop leadership like what I described. We are our own worst enemies.

Morris
04-20-2006, 22:36
Meeko:

I have been watching the quiet chafing that has been occurring between reserves/guard SF types and active duty types, especially command staff (echelons above reality). I sincerely believe that the reservists are bringing better doctrine about duty gear, patrolling, responses and so on to the SF mission. The problem from my vantage is that active duty command fail to recognize the gift they are being given to update how they operate by real citizen/civilian cops doing real world stuff, sometime in more hostile environments than an airbase in the southwest theater.

But what the hail do I know.

meeko
04-21-2006, 14:41
Originally posted by Morris
Meeko:

I have been watching the quiet chafing that has been occurring between reserves/guard SF types and active duty types, especially command staff (echelons above reality). I sincerely believe that the reservists are bringing better doctrine about duty gear, patrolling, responses and so on to the SF mission. The problem from my vantage is that active duty command fail to recognize the gift they are being given to update how they operate by real citizen/civilian cops doing real world stuff, sometime in more hostile environments than an airbase in the southwest theater.

But what the hail do I know.

You are right on!

Having been in active duty SP's/SF in my early 20's I know the mentality that active duty has. While well intended sometimes the AMN and certain leaders have the impression that they are all that and a bag of chips. I'm not trying to knock anyone. I'ts just as a military cop you are not as expossed to things as you think. I work for a federal LE agency and was activated after 9-11 and sent to SW asia. Whille overall the rift is better than it was it could still be improved.

The average ANG/reserve troops of today now have on average of 6-12 years active duty time (of various branches) before they join the guard or reserve plus they work at jobs whether civillian LE or not that first term AMN for the most part aren't even qualified to apply for. My unit has a Chief probation officer in charge of a multi-million $ budget and payrol. We have guys that have masters and PHD's that teach college.

One example I like to use is handcuffing. The AF way is double lock keyholes up and everything will be all right. #1 very rarlly have I ever put cuffs on a non combative subject. #2 I have seen certain people with the ability to get out of double locked cuffs. The AF just has no exposer to it. stuff can go really south really quick.
A little common sense whould go a long way. AF Cops are their own worst enemy.

One other thing to watch soon. The ANG/reserve have had several thousand troops (both cops and other career fields)activated and doing SP/SF duties at guard/reserve and active duty basis. The program has been terminated due to budget at Yes the guard and reserve bases. The active duty bases are keeping their reserve augmentees. What that means is all of the ANG and reserve bases are or will be shortly back to pre 9-11 level posting. They won't turn the money over for the increased security while the ANG and reserve still have priority resources. I think that will be a good arm wrestling match between the guard buearu and active. I'm glad I'm ready to retire its getting old.

Blitzer
04-21-2006, 15:37
Originally posted by meeko
After 20 years service in both active and ANG I've noticed a few things.

1. "The Air Force 58 years untouched by tradition"

2. We need more than poster children with good paperwork and
test well on WAPs to run the force.

3. I wish GEN Lemay could come back and straighten this mess out.

4. Why are we getting an improved combat uniform and still are worried about looking just right.only in the AF

Everything you guys are saying is pretty much right on. I have spent my whole time as a Security Forces troop and have seen everything do a 180 and then back. The only time it wasn't a total mess was the 7 years I spent in SAC. SAC had some issues but not like the new commands or troops do. I was activated after 9/11 and got deployed to qatar and actually got approched in the chow hall when my fire team and I were eating and asked "what are you doing with all of those weapons in here" someone later complained to wing safty and we were "directed" that the M203 gunner had to leave his can of 203 rounds at the US compound checkpoint for "safty". seams this new generation was afraid they would just jump up and go off. Its funny though we can drive them in a Hummer in 130 degree heat all day getting banged around an it not go off but bring them into a chow hall and they are unstable. I think it will be an eye opener when every AMN becomes a cop.

Sorry I strayed a little from the post but really nothing surprises me in the AF anymore. I think I'm ready to retire and just remember the "good times" At least before Rumsfield does away with us for that unmaned robot force. I'm sure he'll keep a few humans around to blame when something goes wroung.

I server in the USAF from 1975 - 1979, there were too many girlie men in the higher ranks then. We couldn't carry an Air Force Issues survival knife while on field duty while I was in a TAC RADAR unit. WTF was that about? Had to keep our weapons unloaded when an eval team was onsite due to poor training of other units bearing down on an evaluator, when it they who who screwed up and broke a perimeter! Sissy men were and are now in control!? I would carry 100 pounds of tarp for a GP medium and people would wet thier pants over it? Pansies. Got the heck out after I got busted up, as I would have had to take a clerical job to stay in. :soap: :soap: :freak: :shocked: :frown:

Rant off.

5madman2
04-22-2006, 20:27
Originally posted by USMC03Grunt
Yeah, Gen. Hertzhog (sp) was out there when I went through cop school (that was 3 months of my life I can never get back again!:frown: ) and from what I know, she's a cop too. How much being at an AETC command effected her has yet to be seen I guess. Sorry but I'm NOT wearing those damn silly elbow and knee pads again!:clown:

I worked for General Hertog when she was a Capt/Major at Nellis. She is a career long cop, with the 2 yr detour as a Wing King at Lackland

She was No-Nonense, and truly supported her NCO's. From the SNCO's I've spoken to recently at Lackland, she hasn't changed (I'm retired and in civilian Law Enforcement now, but maintain contact)

I hope she brings back some common sense to the field. Holmes had some good ideas, but I think she may be able to make them easier to swallow

MrMurphy
04-23-2006, 08:39
Considering her husband is a retired Command Chief, she's got a everyday reminder of "This is how NCOs will see it" at home for advice.

tyesai
04-23-2006, 08:52
Originally posted by MrMurphy
Considering her husband is a retired Command Chief, she's got a everyday reminder of "This is how NCOs will see it" at home for advice.

I don't know, your right and wrong. You don't become a Command Chief without being a politician and you don't become a base Commander without being a politician either. Tools of the system.

This is just me, but I usually don't look up to my "Senior" leaders. There has been 1 or 2 that I personally have met that are true leaders, but.................. most of them are managers. Yeah we need both. I just can't stand managers.

Four_T_Five
04-23-2006, 11:29
Originally posted by tyesai
I don't know, your right and wrong. You don't become a Command Chief without being a politician and you don't become a base Commander without being a politician either. Tools of the system.

This is just me, but I usually don't look up to my "Senior" leaders. There has been 1 or 2 that I personally have met that are true leaders, but.................. most of them are managers. Yeah we need both. I just can't stand managers.
For the most part you are correct. But... while I did not know her husband (he was in Hawaii when she was in Albuquerque), I knew her at Kirtland when she was an O-5 and the sqdn cc. I knew her again at Langley when she was ACC staff before picking up her star. She hasn't changed and still does right by her folks.

tyesai
04-23-2006, 17:36
Originally posted by Four_T_Five
For the most part you are correct. But... while I did not know her husband (he was in Hawaii when she was in Albuquerque), I knew her at Kirtland when she was an O-5 and the sqdn cc. I knew her again at Langley when she was ACC staff before picking up her star. She hasn't changed and still does right by her folks.

Good, rare but good. I don't know the lady nor am I S.F. so more power to us. Yes I said US cause ya'll do good by anyone.