How long is "too long" for a match?

[Navy87Guy]

I shot my local USPSA match today. It was 7 stages and 120+ shooters. I gave up after I completely tubed the 6th stage. At that point, we had been shooting for 5 hours and it was going to be at least another hour until we were finished. After 5 hours at the range (actually 6 -- because I went early to help set up), I had logged roughly 3 minutes of shooting time. My fun meter was pegged, so I skipped the last stage.

How long do you guys go before a match stops being "fun"? I think about 4 hours is all I can stand. It's fun to watch other shooters...but it starts getting old after a while. I expect it during "big matches" like Area finals or the Nationals -- but this was just the monthly club match. And this is pretty typical. Don't get me wrong -- these guys put on some great matches and I'm not complaining. I just wondered how other people felt about spending 5 or 6 hours at the range (these are outdoor matches) for a single match.

Jim

[TimWarner]

man, I WISH I could get to matches like that.

Matches are hard for me to make, with my daughter(1year old), and fiance both competeing for my time. Unscheduled practice is easier for me to do, but when I can make a match, I'd love for it to wear me out.

[rhino465]

For me it depends on several factors:

1. Why is the match running long? Is it because there are lots of stages and shooters, but everything is moving at a decent pace? Or, is it because their is bad planning, or a squad jumped a stage and messed everyone up? If things are running slowly because of the last reason (i.e. inconsiderate squads), then I lose my patience rapidly.

2. How physically demanding is the match? I can last longer through a mix of short, medium, and long courses. If it's all long courses with a lot of movement, I don't last as long. If there is a lot of going down on knees and prone, then getting back up on the timer, I don't last as long.

3. How is my blood sugar and hydration? If I'm low on either, I'm toast.

4. How hot is it? I can go for hourse in the cold when others won't go outside. In the heat, unless I really conserve myself, I can't last very long at all.

Generally speaking, as long as things are moving rapidly, I'm pretty much done after 7-8 stages. When it gets to nine, I'm usually dragging. For a small club match with 4-6 stages that is running poorly, cut the time way down. The amount of time I have where I can perform at my pathetic best is inversely proportional to the heat and humidity as well.

In terms of time, if I can finish in 2.5 or 3 hours (assuming less than 75 deg), I'm generally okay. When you get to hour four, I'm usually ready for a fork. When it's hot, it's anyone's guess.

Hills and rough terrain can knock me down to under an hour. Combine that with a hot day and I'm not even going to try. If I can't find a way to ride, I'm usually toast pretty early. If the field courses are in that pea gravel like they have at the South River Gun Club in Georgia, I can't go very long either, as I have to work so much harder just to walk (that stuff is easy on you if you fall, though!).

[Steve Koski]

Originally posted by Navy87Guy
After 5 hours at the range (actually 6 -- because I went early to help set up), I had logged roughly 3 minutes of shooting time. My fun meter was pegged, so I skipped the last stage.


180 seconds of firing time in 6 hours is on the slow side.

I bailed out of a 4 stage match a couple months ago. I had been there for 5 hours and fired less than 30 rounds in three stages.

Match design is a tough job. It's really easy to set up a match that looks awesome on paper, but has serious bottlenecks and doesn't flow well.

Koski

[MarkCO]

What Steve said. I've run matches with 4 stages, 35 shooters and 75 rounds in under 2 hours and have attended 5 hour matches with 35 shooters and 50 rounds on 4 stages. A GSSF match takes about 1.5 hours on average for about 120 rounds and usually 175 to 200 shooters/day. A well squadded and run match should have you shooting once every 25-40 minutes, IMHO. If it goes past 40 minutes, something is wrong. You have a lot of shooters for 7 stages. Like 17 per squad...that is too big. Your local club should split the match to morning and evening or so a shoot-through style match. 7 stages means no more than 84 shooters to me in a regular format match. That appears to be the biggest problem for your club.

[Andrew Colglazier]

Originally posted by Navy87Guy
How long do you guys go before a match stops being "fun"? I think about 4 hours is all I can stand. It's fun to watch other shooters...but it starts getting old after a while. I expect it during "big matches" like Area finals or the Nationals -- but this was just the monthly club match. And this is pretty typical. Don't get me wrong -- these guys put on some great matches and I'm not complaining. I just wondered how other people felt about spending 5 or 6 hours at the range (these are outdoor matches) for a single match.

Jim

Just about all the local matches I attend, whether IDPA or USPSA, begin at 10:00 and are finished by 2:00-ish. Doesn't seem to matter whether they are 4 or 8 stage matches.

The determining factor for how a match runs is how many squads you have and how big they are. And, whether every Joe and Josephine helps tape and do other duties.

One thing; if you do attend major matches, then keep track of how you feel at local matches. If you find yourself getting tired, then yiou need to take extra measures at majors to prevent getting physically run down.

Andy C.

[Navy87Guy]

Originally posted by Andrew Colglazier
The determining factor for how a match runs is how many squads you have and how big they are. And, whether every Joe and Josephine helps tape and do other duties.

One thing; if you do attend major matches, then keep track of how you feel at local matches. If you find yourself getting tired, then yiou need to take extra measures at majors to prevent getting physically run down.

Andy C.

I think one issue is that the club won't turn away shooters...so we can end up with huge squads (there were 18 in my squad yesterday) that really slow things down. If I were "King for a Day", I think I'd set a limit on the number of participants. Hold signs up, fill the slots and turn the others away. I know it's no fun to be told there's no room, but in the end I think it makes it better for the other shooters.

As far as the physical aspect, that's not my issue (yet!) Yes, it can be hot and demanding, but frankly if I only have to "go" for 30 seconds every hour, I can hang. To me, it's the drawn out nature of the matches and the slow pace that takes away from the enjoyment. But I have seen the long day take it's toll - especially on some of the more senior shooters.

We have another local club that runs indoor matches every month. They use 1 hour time blocks and limit it to 6 shooters per block. They typically run 3-4 stages (area constraint). It's not the biggest match around, but it moves well and it's fun. Unfortunately they hold their matches mid-week and it's hard for me to get there.

Like I said, I'm certainly not trying to pass judgment on the folks who work so hard to plan and execute the big outdoor match. I just wondered if I'm the only one who gets frustrated giving up an entire Sunday for four minutes of shooting fun.

Thanks for the replies!

Jim

[Speedrock]

Tink you were one of the smarter one's, IMO! Used to run IDPA Matches at a small Club almost single handedly. Wound up burning myself out. Really never recovered from it. Much better to be smart and stop when things are bogging down rather than push thru and shoot poorly just to finish.
Recently one of our local Clubs ran only one time slot for their Winter indoor Matches of 4 Stages and did not limit the number of shooters at all. Only two sides to the range but have two Stages on ea. side. Took all of 4 hrs. to run two Squads thru of 20 and 19 ea. due to one finishing before the other, low light Stage, overcomplex "total-darknesss" stage with 12 yd. swinger, etc. and "new shooters to boot. Some guys are still so PO'd they haven't been back. Plus round count was only 50-60 rounds!

What really get to me is the waiting time, guys loose focus and their edge and sort of begin to shut down then can get pretty unhappy as they don't shoot near as well as they do in a match that flows well and effieciently. If Clubs want high participation and lots of stages they almost always have to make concessions in other areas.

I'm an old Dog with arthritis so don't hesitate to bail {now!}. Spent to much time destrying the body in the past just to pull thru regardless of cost in many endevors and now paying for it.......

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I just wondered if I'm the only one who gets frustrated giving up an entire Sunday for four minutes of shooting fun."

18 in my squad yesterday

spending 5 or 6 hours at the range (these are outdoor matches) for a single match.


It was 7 stages and 120+ shooters.

I gave up after I completely tubed the 6th stage.

At that point, we had been shooting for 5 hours and it was going to be at least another hour until we were finished.

After 5 hours at the range (actually 6 -- because I went early to help set up),

I had logged roughly 3 minutes of shooting time. My fun meter was pegged, so I skipped the last stage.

How long do you guys go before a match stops being "fun"?

I think about 4 hours is all I can stand.

It's fun to watch other shooters...
but it starts getting old after a while."

[GunBomB]

Originally posted by Navy87Guy
I shot my local USPSA match today. It was 7 stages and 120+ shooters. I gave up after I completely tubed the 6th stage. At that point, we had been shooting for 5 hours and it was going to be at least another hour until we were finished. After 5 hours at the range (actually 6 -- because I went early to help set up), I had logged roughly 3 minutes of shooting time. My fun meter was pegged, so I skipped the last stage.

How long do you guys go before a match stops being "fun"? I think about 4 hours is all I can stand. It's fun to watch other shooters...but it starts getting old after a while. I expect it during "big matches" like Area finals or the Nationals -- but this was just the monthly club match. And this is pretty typical. Don't get me wrong -- these guys put on some great matches and I'm not complaining. I just wondered how other people felt about spending 5 or 6 hours at the range (these are outdoor matches) for a single match.

Jim

That's really cool that matches are so popular in your area. Does the match run smooth with that many heads? That's what I'd be concerned with. And with so many people, that's awesome for competition. If it's not fun...why are you there? For me, I'm expecting an RO to make me do something I don't even want to do anyway. Sometimes things aren't fun, but if you get past it, that's when you start payin' dues. I would be amazed if I shot a match that started at 9am and ended by 1pm, four hours is almost like a half day. Waiting around does suck tho, and it DOES kill the competitive edge.

[rhino465]

I can't comprehend a monthly club match with 120 shooters. That's a moderate turnout for some section/state matches!

[Hunterjbb]

I was at that match and helped setup both Saturday and Sunday morning.. Tino had closer to 130 shooters signed up.. 112 shooters shot the match.

It was a special classifier match and drew slightly more then normal, although for Fredericksburg the normal turnout is between 60-100 avg id's say is around 80..

Was it a good match? absolutely.. I finished at right around 3pm.. and thought it would go a lot longer.. Our squad had as many as your's did we only waited on one stage and that was for 5 minutes.

I guess i don't notice the wait as i generally RO or run the clipboard.. so that takes up a lot of time..

I have been to matches that have taken a LOT longer. It's all perspective, i drove almost two hours to get there, and With me it's i'm outside with people i enjoy being around doing something i dearly would love to do more often so it never stops being fun, even if i tank a stage. I could care less if it took longer.. I always plan for the whole day to be used up.

I have the utmost respect for Dennis and Tino for doing this year after year, we Lost Black Creek in Richmond as a venue cause the guys that ran that just plain had enough and just wanted to shoot for a change..

I would doubt that you will see Tino turn any shooter away ever.. I think he'd rather be out there all day then tell someone they couldn't come shoot..

Shooter's put's on a nice match, Jeff & doug and Eric do a great job, and i only get there on occasion..

If Fredericksburg is to long for you, then you may consider staying away from Major matches.. those invetiably are all day events.. although i've been to a few that have been half day formats, Summer Blast being one.

You may want to consider North Mountain also,, it's a limited number of shooters, sometimes with morning and afternoon shooting times and is normally 4-5 stages, mostly cause of space limitations. Dan and Eliane do a great job also.

I would say to anyone that if you want to shoot a great club match with some great shooters come to Fredericksburg..

So to answer your question of "how long is to long?" for me i haven't gotten to the "to long" point..

Hope you'll come to the next match..

Jeff B.

[Navy87Guy]

Jeff -

I absolutely agree that Tino and Dennis do a fantastic job -- that's why I'm trying very carefully not to sound like I'm "whining". They put in a lot of effort with no reward other than seeing the sport advance..which is a great thing. I have nothing but the utmost respect for guys like them who put so much into it. It was a great match set up, with some challenging stages and 4 classifier stages.

I've shot some matches at Shooters' and those are good, too. It's just tough for me to get back up from Norfolk in the middle of the week.

I agree that the camaraderie is great and it's a great experience to watch other shooters and to learn from their techniques and thought processes. To me, 6 or 8 hours is just a little too much time to spend at the range. That was really why I was asking the question...just to see if it was me or if other people felt the same way. I really don't mean for this to be a criticism of the club or how Tino runs the match. Yes -- I would personally prefer to see the squad sizes limited, but it's not my call. I also think that forcing squad sign ups this season was a good thing...at least the squads are balanced now. I'm in no position to criticize the way things are run -- I just wondered if I'm the only one who gets frustrated sometimes with long matches.

Jim

[TimP]

Our local matches have about 30 shooters, and we devide up into a minimum of 4 squads. We have 6 berms to shoot in so the is always an open berm or 2. We can shoot a 6 stage / 150rd match in about 2-3 hrs.

[Hunterjbb]

Everyone has a tolerance level for whatever they do, I play golf also, and believe it or not for me spending 5-6 hours playing 18 holes drives me insane.. :)

I missed the first fredericksburg match this year, the squad sign up i wasn't sure if it was just for last weeks match or if they will carry over for the rest of the year. Not a bad idea though.

I would say over last year, generally with 6 stages you start at 9ish.. and normally finish around 2pm.. of course breakdown takes about an hour so end up leaving there around 4.. if you can stay..

I understand where your coming from, like i said everyone has a tolerance level for their activities.. If your down in Norfolk you should check out the blackwater shoots and some of the other NC shoots for club matches.. might actually be closer to you then Fredericksburg and they do a great club match also.

Hope you keep coming up to FBurg.. Hopefully one day Black Creek will start up again..

Jeff.

[murph2127]

I have been to clubs that want to do an all day affair. It keeps them away from the wife and kids for a day and they come home clean and sober albeit a little tired.

I've been to others that are run like a good railroad. Depends.

At my club we did 5 stags for 41 shooters in 2-1/2 hours last month.

[Joe D]

It's all about squad size and pasteing. The SO has to keep everyone busy. Any more than 10 in a squad drags things out.
Stage design is a factor also. Stages that have more than one string of fire really slow things down. I don't like Standards in IDPA matches either. We do not have the first Standards stage in our State Championship match this year.

[Andrew Colglazier]

Originally posted by Joe D
It's all about squad size and pasteing. The SO has to keep everyone busy. Any more than 10 in a squad drags things out.
Stage design is a factor also. Stages that have more than one string of fire really slow things down. I don't like Standards in IDPA matches either. We do not have the first Standards stage in our State Championship match this year.

I never understood standards in IDPA anyway. What's the point? There are no standards in a gunfight!!!

:upeyes: :shocked: :freak: :) ;) :cool: :clown: :supergrin:

Andy C.

[another okie]

I've bailed on several matches after about four hours. I don't really care where I finish anyway. I can shoot all I want at home, so my tolerance factor for long waits to shoot ten rounds is pretty low.

There's something I don't really get. We all say we are so busy, no time for anything, yet baseball games now take four hours, when they used to be under two, golf takes five or six hours when it used to take three to three and a half, and football and basketball are stretching out, too. That endless march tot he foul lines at the end of basketball games has led me to shut off about half the games in the NCAA tournament.

My attention span for just about any event is around two hours, whether it's a party, a game, a museum, a concert or whatever.

[Custom Glock Racing]

I got spoiled since I moved to AZ. Now anythiong more than 2-3 hours for a club match is too long.

[Bren]

I am at matches for 6-7 hours fairly often. The last once was an IDPA match where we shot a 5 or 6 stage match, then tore it down and set up and shot a classifier after. We have one 3-gun match every month that usually takes about 6 hours. Our normal IDPA match runs more like 3-4 hours; it's not a problem except on the really cold days or snow or rain - I've been shooting at this club 12 months a year for 3 years and no match has been called because of weather, we just put clear bags over the targets and put the score sheets inside the clipboards.

[gsbell]

Here in Michigan all the clubs split it up morning and afternoon sessions we have a lot of shooters. 5 stages in 2 to 2.5 hours is the norm