BMW had sold its soul to the Devil - no more Bimmer for me [Archive] - Glock Talk

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fnfalman
04-03-2006, 11:59
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=29&article_id=10753

The BMW 335i coupe that will appear later this year may look like nothing more than the latest chapter in the 3-series coupe book, but there are some radical changes under the skin. The 335i (the C goes away on this coupe as it did on the 650i for the 2006 model year) will have a 3.0-liter twin-turbo inline-six with piezoelectric direct injection. The symmetrical turbos are relatively small and each feed three cylinders. Power output is up only 47 hp over the normally aspirated version of the same 3.0-liter six found in the 330i, but BMW claims that turbo lag is all but avoided and ó more importantly ó peak torque increases 34 percent and is available from 1500 to 5800 rpm. BMW estimates that the twin-turbo setup gives the 335i's six the power and torque characteristics of a 4.0-liter V-8 with 10 percent less fuel consumption and 145 fewer pounds. BMW expects the 335i to shave more than half a second from the 330i's 0-to-60 time, which should put it in the low-five-second range ó scarcely more than the outgoing E46 M3. The 335i is expected to carry a base price of approximately $42,000 when it goes on sale this summer. The 2008 M3 is expected to have a 400-hp naturally aspirated V-8 and cost $10,000 more.

Why, you ask, would BMW go to all the trouble of making this complex turbo engine when a V-8 would be a simpler and purer means to the same end? As worldwide petroleum reserves decline and prices go up, efficiency becomes paramount, even for performance and luxury vehicles. As worldwide emissions standards become increasingly strict, high-performance diesels ó recently thought to be the next big thing ó become less feasible. Mercedes-Benz also recently announced a piezoelectric direct-injection gasoline six which is naturally aspirated ó for now. Dr. Thomas Weber, Mercedes-Benz's top engineering and development officer, confirms that turbocharged smaller-displacement engines are in Mercedes-Benz's near-term future as well. Turbos are here to stay.
--------------------------------------------------------------

So much for cutting edge engine technology.:upeyes:

Might as well buy Japanese or American if one were to want forced induced engines. At least their motorcycles are still good enough to own.

Jack T.
04-03-2006, 12:06
:frown:

BMW has always said they would not go the Forced Induction route.

Still, I'll have to pick up the M6 or the new V8 M3 to replace my M sometime m:)

400hp in a little light M3. . .makes me happy in my pants.

OUSooner
04-03-2006, 16:45
That is one thing I always like about Honda. They seem to be able to squeeze equal hp output of others turbo engines without a turbo.

epsylum
04-03-2006, 18:22
I personally like turbos. They harness power that is essentially wasted in a NA setup. They are more efficient because of this. So what if it is the "easy way". It is the smart way. I don't see people whining about fuel injection over carburation. The FI is more efficient and can do a better job. I am all in favor of anything tht makes for a more efficient and powerful engine.

But I guess some people just love doing everything the hard way. ;)

Besides, more power can always be easily attained with forced induction engines and not some measly 5 or 6 hp either.

Mark me as a turbo fan (there is an aerospace joke in that somewhere :supergrin: ).

Scrappy
04-03-2006, 19:27
Well, it's less weight and better fuel consumption!

Wow! Have you not noticed what has been done to the Supra's or the Mitsi Evo or Sub STI? The power is amazing to say the least for the displacement!
You need to see these videos asap!

http://videos.streetfire.net/hottestvideos/2/e1c42cd0-2065-4e7a-955a-e38540f6c195.htm

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1EF08045-8005-409A-853E-70B8383CCF9B.htm



Get Spooled
http://www.doublet.2in.de/files/3BG.gif

Rob1035
04-03-2006, 19:33
bmw stopped making good cars years ago (IMHO). More weight, more electronic crap, and the added power to move it. Not to mention the styling....

No shocker they are going back on their NA ideology.

OUSooner
04-03-2006, 21:31
Maybe turbos are more reliable now but never new one to be worth a damn after 100K. Also don't much care for the whine they make.

method
04-04-2006, 03:46
BMW has used turbos in the past...the 745i from the 1980's used a turbo I6. I don't understand the dislike for force fed motors, it's very, very easy to modify them and see big gains in power.

Scrappy
04-04-2006, 07:14
Originally posted by OUSooner
Maybe turbos are more reliable now but never new one to be worth a damn after 100K. Also don't much care for the whine they make.
Turbo's whine? I think you are thinking Supercharger!
A superchargers whine is music to my ears. It is addicting to say the least!

syd55
04-04-2006, 07:33
What the!! Did I just step back into the 1940 with all this turbo hate.

No engine is complete without atleast one large turbo.

Good for BMW for getting with the times, I might now think about buying a car from them.

Skyhook
04-04-2006, 07:41
I like turbos, I like supers; but I especially like afterburners!!!

With my vehicles, though, I am still one for the KISS business.

Tennessee Slim
04-04-2006, 08:48
I-drive and Bangle butt? No thank you. I can see me in a cherry E36 or e46 M3 but nothing after that interests me. The Cayman, OTOH, ......

DSMonsta
04-05-2006, 00:10
Finally a BMW I wouldn't mind owning. I only hope the beancounters didn't skimp on the internals in traditional German fashion and the computer will allow it to modified with ease.

Rob1035
04-05-2006, 08:20
not to mention it looks like a rebadged Daewoo....

fnfalman
04-05-2006, 13:25
Originally posted by Rob1035
not to mention it looks like a rebadged Daewoo....

I'm with ya. At least the older BMWs only look like rebadged Toyotas and Hondas.

Ron3
04-08-2006, 13:00
If the car is lighter, has more horsepower, more torque, all with better gas mileage, what the heck are you complaining about?!

Now how it looks is another discussion of course.

Ron3

Rob1035
04-08-2006, 13:35
My problem with it is BMWs are already complex enough, like most new cars, and I dont really trust them to have the long term reliability of the Japanese cars. If I could afford brand new warranteed cars, it wouldnt matter....

Tennessee Slim
04-10-2006, 06:39
Originally posted by Ron3
If the car is lighter, has more horsepower, more torque, all with better gas mileage, what the heck are you complaining about?!
I-Drive, Bangle butt, a new CEL every other week and $1000 scheduled services twice a year.

fnfalman
04-10-2006, 09:51
And force induction should be relegated to lesser companies that don't know how to wring out the utmost in engine outputs.

syd55
04-10-2006, 09:58
Originally posted by Rob1035
My problem with it is BMWs are already complex enough, like most new cars, and I dont really trust them to have the long term reliability of the Japanese cars. If I could afford brand new warranteed cars, it wouldnt matter....

Originally posted by Tennessee Slim
I-Drive, Bangle butt, a new CEL every other week and $1000 scheduled services twice a year.

I feel obligated to translate for you guys. So that the rest of us can understand exactly what you are saying.

"I don't understand or am not very experanced with the new technology in cars.
I am scared every time I start my car and drive down the road because I know that if on the off chance something goes wrong, (the chance of something going wrong in reality is very small, but for some reason in my head its parilizing likely) I will not be able to fix "it" or know what "it" is.
I don't understand why manufacturers went away from carbs and standard manual transmitions/transaxles and suspensions like my Ford/Chevy/Dodge car/truck had back when I was into working on trucks and cars.
I am getting old and don't want to learn anything new so every one should keep buying and making the same product that I am firmilliar with.":freak:

There you go.;)

BTW I would never buy that BMW because its ugly but the again I think all BMW's are ugly.

The car I would like is that new Chevy corvette.

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/

Imagne that but with a Single HUGE Turbo..... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :drool: :drool: :drool: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :drool: :drool: :drool:

Rob1035
04-10-2006, 13:25
er, not really, but ok.


*shrug*

ps- what's "parilizing"? Oh, you're a corvette fan, nevermind.;)

fnfalman
04-10-2006, 13:43
Originally posted by syd55
IThe car I would like is that new Chevy corvette.

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/

Imagne that but with a Single HUGE Turbo..... :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :drool: :drool: :drool: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :drool: :drool: :drool:

Ah, the old "shake, rattle & roll".
:laughabove:

syd55
04-10-2006, 13:45
"paralyzing"
Sorry,forgot the golden rule of read twice, post once.

Thanks spelling Nazi!:upeyes:

fnfalman
04-10-2006, 15:51
Originally posted by syd55
[BThanks spelling Nazi!:upeyes: [/B]

This IS a BMW thread. :rofl:







Get it? BMW...Germany...Achtung...
:laughabove:

Tennessee Slim
04-11-2006, 11:01
Originally posted by syd55
"paralyzing"
Sorry,forgot the golden rule of read twice, post once.

Thanks spelling Nazi!:upeyes:
That was only one of six misspellings and three punctuation errors, but who's counting?

syd55
04-11-2006, 11:20
Wow, going completely off topic and attacking my grammar skills.

My post must have hit a little to close to home for some of you, huh.

;)

Tennessee Slim
04-11-2006, 11:42
Originally posted by syd55
Wow, going completely off topic and attacking my grammar skills.

My post must have hit a little to close to home for some of you, huh.
How true. You are sagacity personified (or would be if you could figure out how to spell it).

deviousracing
04-11-2006, 15:50
I have a car and truck with turbos, i would never drive anything without them. A 300zx TT and a dodge with cummins

Ron3
04-11-2006, 16:24
Originally posted by fnfalman
And force induction should be relegated to lesser companies that don't know how to wring out the utmost in engine outputs.

They DO know how to wring out the utmost in engine outputs! With forced induction!


For a car to make a respectiable amount of horsepower without big inches or forced induction you've only got one thing left to do, spin the hell out of it. Sure it's nice when your on it, but for daily driving is sucks because you've got no torque below 4000rpms. (See Honda S2000.

If you want a fast vehicle with day to day drivability, no power adder, and a small-cube engine, it's going to have to be very very light. (See Lotus Elise and most sport bikes)

I think your just a bike guy who wants the same thing from a car. It's not going to happen, enjoy your bike!:rollsmiley:

Ron3

Rob1035
04-11-2006, 17:21
well part of the problem is the fact that a majority of car buyers have "needs" (read: they are sissies) that add tremendous weight to cars, and as a result, cars need more HP to move all that luxury crap. At least porsche still makes a sports car under 3k lbs...

fnfalman
04-11-2006, 17:29
Originally posted by Ron3
They DO know how to wring out the utmost in engine outputs! With forced induction!


For a car to make a respectiable amount of horsepower without big inches or forced induction you've only got one thing left to do, spin the hell out of it. Sure it's nice when your on it, but for daily driving is sucks because you've got no torque below 4000rpms. (See Honda S2000.

If you want a fast vehicle with day to day drivability, no power adder, and a small-cube engine, it's going to have to be very very light. (See Lotus Elise and most sport bikes)

I think your just a bike guy who wants the same thing from a car. It's not going to happen, enjoy your bike!:rollsmiley:

Ron3

I don't expect a car to compete with a motorcycle's performance. But I do expect more from BMW engineering than taking the easy way out. Oh well, sometimes I expect too much.

tgtshuter
04-11-2006, 21:54
Originally posted by Tennessee Slim
I-Drive, Bangle butt, a new CEL every other week and $1000 scheduled services twice a year.

What's a CEL?
Also, I'm not aware of the bi-annual services you mentioned. Could you be more specific?

Tennessee Slim
04-12-2006, 03:40
Originally posted by tgtshuter
What's a CEL?
Also, I'm not aware of the bi-annual services you mentioned. Could you be more specific?
The CEL the bane of many a BMW ownerís existence. Itís the Check Engine Light, which comes on for everything from leaving off the gas cap to alerting you youíre due for an oil change.

Many of the CEL warnings are only intermittent, like driving in the rain sometimes will produce a CEL for an oxygen sensor or a secondary air pump. Given time, these CELs might go away but the only way you can know itís not a warning of impending doom is to check the code thatís producing it. If you take it to the dealer, heíll charge you $90 just to read the code. Or, for less than having the dealer read it twice, you can buy your own code reader (Peake Research makes a decent one) and check it yourself. Mine stays in my trunk.

The CEL comes on in tandem with the service light to let you know when itís time for a visit to the dealer (for an oil change, etc.). The computation of when a service was due used to be predicated on a myriad of factors and a complex logarithm but now the OBC (On-Board Computer) uses just average fuel mileage. Lower mpg=harder driving and, therefore, more frequent services. With my driving style, I get a service light at pretty regular six month intervals. The twice a year thing I was referring to is not some operatorís manual-mandated interval, thatís just the way it works out in my particular case.

Then again, what do I know? Iím just an aging Luddite with a morbid fear of the advanced technology in a displacement-dependant, two-valve, pushrod-engined car with a rear suspension design that debuted in the Model-T Ford. ;-)

Rob1035
04-12-2006, 07:19
Slim, pulling the bulb from the CEL is a great way to avoid the problems; worked for me;)

fnfalman
04-12-2006, 08:25
This CEL thing going off intermittently is interesting. I'll have to delve into it. My last Bimmer had 120K on it before I traded it in for my current one. The check engine light came on when I had an O2 sensor that punked out on me and was replaced under warranty. But otherwise it didn't pop up. The current one has 38K in 2-1/2 years and no check lights came on yet. I do have a couple more rattling when the roof was down and the cover on the third brake light cracked and replaced under warranty.

And yes, service cost is not cheap. But that's why you buy the extended service package;)

But if service cost is an issue then rice burners or dumbestics should be purchased and not a finely engineered German machine. Or should I say used to be finely engineered German machine until they punked out and decided to turbocharge the engine.

Tennessee Slim
04-12-2006, 10:09
Iíve started changing O2 sensors annually, just to avoid the nuisance. And, regrettably, my extended service ran out a couple of years ago. I guess it's time to trade up, huh?

But youíre exactly right. An aggressive (and expensive) maintenance schedule is part of what allows me to drive it like I stole it and not have it turn in to a clapped-out piece of Detroit iron after 40K miles. You gotta pay to play.

BMW is no stranger to turbocharging. Remember the 2002tii and the 745i?

Usta be I could figure what was going on in the minds of the Bavarian marketing folks, but no more; itís as if theyíve abandoned the faster half of their traditional enthusiast/yuppie buyer base. Theyíre piling on technology that does bupkis to improve the driving experience, which used to be what they were all about. And the bodies look like the product of collaboration between Wurlitzer and Snoop Dogg, after theyíve shared a couple of oh-zees.

The other problem is that Iím a better fit with the 3-series, and the monster S54 motor in the late model M3 is a hand grenade. BMW blames an oil circulation problem but many of the cars theyíve repaired have had the identical failure after BMW recalled and fixed them. The smart money is betting the problem lies in the length of the straight-6 crank, which allows a harmonic to set up nearing redline and leading to the premature failures. The Ďunofficialí recommendation from BMW CCA is only to rev to 7500, but whereís the fun in that??

I suspect thatís one of the reasons for the V-8 M3; cure the problem by shortening the crank.

ProfMoriarty
05-07-2006, 19:45
Originally posted by fnfalman
Ah, the old "shake, rattle & roll".
:laughabove:

You've spent too much time in secretary cars and no time in a C6!

fnfalman
05-08-2006, 15:15
Originally posted by ProfMoriarty
You've spent too much time in secretary cars and no time in a C6!

I'd rather spend my time in a secretary's car than in a loser mid-life crisis slow-hicle.;)

At least when I'm in my secretary's car, I have excuses for going slow. It's pretty bad for a big bad V-8 manly man's car to be dusted by a cute little Italian two-wheeler.:supergrin:

ProfMoriarty
05-08-2006, 16:17
Originally posted by fnfalman
I'd rather spend my time in a secretary's car than in a loser mid-life crisis slow-hicle.;)

At least when I'm in my secretary's car, I have excuses for going slow. It's pretty bad for a big bad V-8 manly man's car to be dusted by a cute little Italian two-wheeler.:supergrin:

Compare cars to cars or bikes to bikes.

Comparing to different types of vehicles is meaningless.

And remember, driver's of little BMW girl's cars don't get mid-life crises...they get menopause. :supergrin:

fnfalman
05-08-2006, 16:24
Originally posted by ProfMoriarty
Compare cars to cars or bikes to bikes.

Comparing to different types of vehicles is meaningless.

And remember, driver's of little BMW girl's cars don't get mid-life crises...they get menopause. :supergrin:

So what you're saying is that the Corvette is a sissy vehicle because it's sooooooo slow?

I guess I can cripple one cylinder on my bike so that it'll be more competitive or something.:supergrin:

ProfMoriarty
05-08-2006, 17:04
Originally posted by fnfalman
So what you're saying is that the Corvette is a sissy vehicle because it's sooooooo slow?

I guess I can cripple one cylinder on my bike so that it'll be more competitive or something.:supergrin:

So what you're saying is you have a learning disability or are you so embarrassed to be driving that little I-really-should-save-my-money-so-I-can-buy-a-real-car gaymobile of yours that you can't stay on subject? C'mon work with me here!! ;)

Here's some homework for you:

Take off those leathers...you look silly in them...pull up a chair and read up on C6 0-60 times, top speed, and the Z51 group.
Then, while you're at it read up on the Z06.

Learn grasshopper, learn! You can do it!!
:cool:

epsylum
05-08-2006, 17:35
About the past 5 or so posts are very :offtopic:

BTW you cute little Italian V-twin would be even faster if it had forced induction ;)

But I guess that would be the ewasy way out.:dunno:

fnfalman
05-08-2006, 18:25
Originally posted by ProfMoriarty
So what you're saying is you have a learning disability or are you so embarrassed to be driving that little I-really-should-save-my-money-so-I-can-buy-a-real-car gaymobile of yours that you can't stay on subject? C'mon work with me here!! ;)

Here's some homework for you:

Take off those leathers...you look silly in them...pull up a chair and read up on C6 0-60 times, top speed, and the Z51 group.
Then, while you're at it read up on the Z06.

Learn grasshopper, learn! You can do it!!
:cool:

I learned all I need to learn about cagers. ;) Real men ride fast motorcycles. The rest are for wannabe fast crowds.

Those leathers serve a purpose, unlike the Corvette and any other sisssy vehicles. Well, I guess the sissy vehicles do serve a purpose too. They make their drivers feel like they're real men. :rollsmiley:

What is that 0-60 time on the C6? 3.-something seconds? I think that a Japanese 500-cc girlie bike could do that. 1/4-mile is what? 12-something? The same girlie bike can do that too.

Top speed is easy when you're cocooned in a cage of steel, safety glass, fiberglass, seat belt and airbags. Try to do some high speed runs with nothing between you and the pavement but 1.2 mil worth of dead cows.

At least when I'm riding my girlie car, I recognize it for what it is - a sissy-hicle.

But you guys keep on riding your C6 or your F430 or your 911 around thinking that you're badasses. :devilishgrin:

epsylum
05-08-2006, 18:37
Originally posted by fnfalman
I learned all I need to learn about cagers. ;) Real men ride fast motorcycles. The rest are for wannabe fast crowds.

Those leathers serve a purpose, unlike the Corvette and any other sisssy vehicles. Well, I guess the sissy vehicles do serve a purpose too. They make their drivers feel like they're real men. :rollsmiley:

What is that 0-60 time on the C6? 3.-something seconds? I think that a Japanese 500-cc girlie bike could do that. 1/4-mile is what? 12-something? The same girlie bike can do that too.

Top speed is easy when you're cocooned in a cage of steel, safety glass, fiberglass, seat belt and airbags. Try to do some high speed runs with nothing between you and the pavement but 1.2 mil worth of dead cows.

At least when I'm riding my girlie car, I recognize it for what it is - a sissy-hicle.

But you guys keep on riding your C6 or your F430 or your 911 around thinking that you're badasses. :devilishgrin:

You do realize this is the car forum right in a thread that you started regarding BMW's decision to turbo their cars (i.e. a performance decision). Now you don't care about car performance? What was with starting the thread then? I mean they are just for tooling around so why not turbo charging for better fuel economy?

Cars are cars and bikes are bikes. Every now and then you find a car that can stay wiht a bike and that is very impressive (and rare), but they are definately two different things. Same reason you don't compare bikes to airplanes. Bikes do things cars can't do (mostly performance), but cars can do things bikes can't do (mainly carry things and passengers). I personally don't care if I am driving a box truck, I want to have fun while driving it or else it is just boring. That is why I prefer "sporty" type cars as I can still have fun while going to and from work and school while carrying all the stuff I may need or passengers (as in more than one and besides 2-up on a bike is not really any fun). It's just a different kind of fun.

Besides I can't slide my GPz 1100 or GSX-R 1216 around a parking lot in the snow (unlike Cali, that happens here in Indy ;) ) without some decent sized repair bills.

ProfMoriarty
05-08-2006, 20:11
Originally posted by fnfalman
I learned all I need to learn about cagers. ;) Real men ride fast motorcycles. The rest are for wannabe fast crowds.

Those leathers serve a purpose, unlike the Corvette and any other sisssy vehicles. Well, I guess the sissy vehicles do serve a purpose too. They make their drivers feel like they're real men. :rollsmiley:

What is that 0-60 time on the C6? 3.-something seconds? I think that a Japanese 500-cc girlie bike could do that. 1/4-mile is what? 12-something? The same girlie bike can do that too.

Top speed is easy when you're cocooned in a cage of steel, safety glass, fiberglass, seat belt and airbags. Try to do some high speed runs with nothing between you and the pavement but 1.2 mil worth of dead cows.

At least when I'm riding my girlie car, I recognize it for what it is - a sissy-hicle.

But you guys keep on riding your C6 or your F430 or your 911 around thinking that you're badasses. :devilishgrin:

You can't stick with the subject because you've got no argument, that much is painfully clear.

If you measure what makes a man a man by his willingness to ride a bike, you have a lot to learn.

What I recognize in an aging, out of shape little guy who needs to promote his adolescent idea of masculinity by hopping on a crotch rocket to tempt fate is someone who has accomplished so little in his life and who has planned so poorly for his future, that he has nothing to loose.

fnfalman
05-09-2006, 07:45
Originally posted by ProfMoriarty
You can't stick with the subject because you've got no argument, that much is painfully clear.

If you measure what makes a man a man by his willingness to ride a bike, you have a lot to learn.

What I recognize in an aging, out of shape little guy who needs to promote his adolescent idea of masculinity by hopping on a crotch rocket to tempt fate is someone who has accomplished so little in his life and who has planned so poorly for his future, that he has nothing to loose.

It's cool, Prof. Some of us are born to handle fast machines and some of us can't. That's why God invented Harleys and Corvettes for those that can't. Hey, there are times when I feel like I wanna get in touch with my feminine side and that's when I hope into a cage too. I understand. It's all good. Some of us grow old with age and some of us refuse to grow old with age. Fight against the dying of the light and all that.

Ah, what the hell, maybe I'll trade my girlie BMW car for the girlie Corvette and join the club. It's time to grow up, hang up the leathers and give up the fast machines for something slower that matches my age.

NOT:supergrin:

PS For those who are interested, do a search on Hunter S. Thompson's Song of the Sausage Creature. Read it. Learn it. Live it. Love it.:rock:

fiveoboy01
05-12-2006, 00:38
Originally posted by Ron3
They DO know how to wring out the utmost in engine outputs! With forced induction!


For a car to make a respectiable amount of horsepower without big inches or forced induction you've only got one thing left to do, spin the hell out of it. Sure it's nice when your on it, but for daily driving is sucks because you've got no torque below 4000rpms. (See Honda S2000.



You hit it right on the head.

In addition to low-rpm torque loss, as rpm goes up, engine life decreases.

And fnfalman, I've seen/driven/ridden in plenty of cars in my life which would probably make you poop your pants if you got a ride in them. Cars which get driven on the street and will whack the pants off any bike, straight line or otherwise. Cars which will run about the same 1/4 mile time(or considerably quicker) as a 'Busa yet with a much lower MPH.

You wouldn't be able to comprehend the hit these things give you off the starting line. A 'Busa will do a 1.7-1.8 60-foot time. THAT is pathetic, compared to even the car in my avatar, which would consistently go low 1.40s. And it only does 10.40s in the 1/4 at around 130 mph. You will be picking your eyeballs off the back of your skull, even more so than you would with said bike. If you've been on a very fast bike with a TRUE slick on the back, then disregard, as you know what I'm talking about.

Though I agree spirited riding is fun(ok, my skill level/bike doesn't let me ride much more than at a moderate clip through the twisties), there are plenty of fast cars out there as well.

Forced induction is in no way cheating, it is merely another way of increasing air/fuel mixture to the combustion chamber. Technically, even "naturally aspirated" engines use the forced induction of atmospheric pressure. A turbo/supercharger is merely increasing that pressure.

epsylum
05-12-2006, 11:08
Originally posted by fiveoboy01
You hit it right on the head.

In addition to low-rpm torque loss, as rpm goes up, engine life decreases.

And fnfalman, I've seen/driven/ridden in plenty of cars in my life which would probably make you poop your pants if you got a ride in them. Cars which get driven on the street and will whack the pants off any bike, straight line or otherwise. Cars which will run about the same 1/4 mile time(or considerably quicker) as a 'Busa yet with a much lower MPH.

You wouldn't be able to comprehend the hit these things give you off the starting line. A 'Busa will do a 1.7-1.8 60-foot time. THAT is pathetic, compared to even the car in my avatar, which would consistently go low 1.40s. And it only does 10.40s in the 1/4 at around 130 mph. You will be picking your eyeballs off the back of your skull, even more so than you would with said bike. If you've been on a very fast bike with a TRUE slick on the back, then disregard, as you know what I'm talking about.

Though I agree spirited riding is fun(ok, my skill level/bike doesn't let me ride much more than at a moderate clip through the twisties), there are plenty of fast cars out there as well.

Forced induction is in no way cheating, it is merely another way of increasing air/fuel mixture to the combustion chamber. Technically, even "naturally aspirated" engines use the forced induction of atmospheric pressure. A turbo/supercharger is merely increasing that pressure.

I agree with the forced induction, but a modern sportbike is bar none the most performance one can get for the dollar.

In a drag race cars have the traction to get off the line quicker, but bikes make up their speed down the track due to their tiny, single tire. Yes, a stock Busa is fast and capable of running high 9's out fo the box, but you are comparing a modified car to a bone stock bike. Stock to stock there is no production car that can match the speed of a bike around a track. They tried this a year or so ago with a GSX-R 1000 (with Kevin Schwantz riding) vs. a Z-06 (with Borris Said driving). The bike destroyed the car in every single part of the track, including cornering speed on both short and long tracks.

But add a turbo to a Busa. Well, lets just say I have personally seen a completely street legal (plated, DOT tires, functional headlight, no wheelie bar, on board starter and battery, etc.) Busa run a 7.1 @200mph at IRP.

The key is power to weight ratio, which the car just does not have compared to the bike.

But again they are 2 different things.

fnfalman
05-12-2006, 11:57
Regardless of the differences. It's easy to feel brave while driving something that has crumple zone, airbags, seatbelts, traction controls, ABS than driving something that goes a lot faster with nothing but 1.2-mil worth of leathers between you and the road.

Imagine you are wide awake, 8 AM, not a single soul in sight but maybe you and one or other riding partners, taking that canyon corner at double or triple the speed limit, feeling the forks vibrating in your hands, the rear shocks working and transmitting vibration against your buttocks, wind blasting at your body, leaning over far enough so that you can reach out and caress the ground with your finger, sticking that knee out for balancing and feel the ripples of the road against the slightly dragging pucks.

Or you're on an empty stretch of road that reaches out for miles, crank on that throttle and feel the bike leaping forward. In a blink of an eye, you're hitting 140-MPH and still climbing hard. Even with earplugs in, the wind roar is deafening, you tuck down behind the tiny screen, feeling the air going turbulent around your shoulder and neck. A small bump on the road turns your steel stallion into a bucking bronco, you whisper a prayer to God above, hang on and focus on that vanishing point just above the horizon.

That is SPEED, my friend. There's nothing like it in the world. No cage will ever come close. Well, maybe an open-wheeled Indy or F1.

das028
05-12-2006, 12:02
Just be a man an get yourself a chevy and call it a day:supergrin:

fiveoboy01
05-12-2006, 13:18
I suck at the internet:stop:

fiveoboy01
05-12-2006, 13:21
Ever ridden in or driven a single digit(7,8,9 second) race car? I wouldn't say it's "easy to feel safe", especially with a small-tired type car.

Though I will freely admit that an '02 R6 is the fastest 2-wheel machine I've ever been on. I'd guess the pucker factors are close between a 7 second bike and a 7 second car, just in different ways.

Fastest bike vs fastest car ever? Car wins, bar none. NHRA Funny Cars rule the roost. Wins in every power/power to weight category. F1 and/or IndyCar rules in the handling department.

It's a different kind of speed, but some cage rides can be just as exciting as any bike. Personally I can appreciate both types of rides.

I guess we're arguing apples and oranges anyways as epsylum stated. And it's strayed way off topic, which I apologize for contributing to that.

fnfalman
05-12-2006, 13:55
My Tuono will do high sub-9 at the 1/4 mile if I do my job.

I rode in one of those NASCAR lap thing that you can buy for $500. They governed the top speed to 140-MPH at the California Speedway.

Nah, I am unimpressed. Sure, the F1 cars are faster and the Top Fuels are faster, but you don't see these things ridden in the weekends by Joe Schmoe Public for fun.;)

epsylum
05-12-2006, 15:03
Originally posted by fnfalman
My Tuono will do high sub-9 at the 1/4 mile if I do my job.

I call BS.

Do you mean sub 10? Because sub-9s is 8s and that is pure BS.

9s I would even have to be very skeptical. There is no way your Tuono can stay with a Busa in the quarter (a perfectly launched Busa ridden by a semi-professional rider).

tgtshuter
05-12-2006, 17:36
Measuring your masculinity by what vehicle, or how fast you drive it...well, that's a sad place to be, IMO.
Negatively judging another by what they drive is pathetic and shows a lack of maturity and low self-esteem.

Guess you can't conquer the dinosaur or grizzly anymore, so you have to prove yourself with a machine, :shakehead:

fnfalman
05-15-2006, 11:46
Originally posted by epsylum
I call BS.

Do you mean sub 10? Because sub-9s is 8s and that is pure BS.

9s I would even have to be very skeptical. There is no way your Tuono can stay with a Busa in the quarter (a perfectly launched Busa ridden by a semi-professional rider).

You're right. Sub-10s. My Aprilia is now putting out 122-HP and 70-lbft of torque at the wheel. I'm confident that at sea level and with slicks on, professional drag rider, strapped down suspension, it'll go into the 9s. Of course the Japanese liter bikes will go into the 9s bone stock.

Rob1035
05-15-2006, 11:52
Originally posted by fnfalman

I rode in one of those NASCAR lap thing that you can buy for $500. They governed the top speed to 140-MPH at the California Speedway.


My dad did the same thing here at Lowe's, afaik the petty school cars are down nearly 300hp from the real race cars.