IDPA holster question

[Nowhere Man]

I use a Glock $8 holster for IDPA. When preparing to shoot a stage I, load my gun and "lightly" place it back into my holster. A friend commented to me that I am required to push the gun firmly down into the holster.

Even with the gun placed "lightly" into the holster the trigger guard is completely covered.

Is there a rule addressing this issue?

Thanks, Dave

[bruce282]

Just off the top of my head I would think everything in the rules concerning covering the trigger guard and measurements of cutouts etc would need to be observed.

Bruce

[eljay45]

Maybe he is talking about the rule that says all retention devices must be used. I'm not familiar with your holster but if pushing it all the way in the holster is what makes your holster retain the weapon then you need to push it all the way in.

[Jim Watson]

Sorry, Dave, but that is a gamer trick and a bedroll lawyer reply.
It is covered under rule C2E:
Holsters: E. Must hold the firearm with enough tension to allow the wearer to complete normal daily tasks without fear of losing the weapon.
Would you really, truly, wear your gun "lightly" placed in the holster for all day defensive carry? The Glock holster is made to detent the gun in place on purpose and if you do not seat the pistol all the way, it is not safe and suitable for continuous wear.

[Nowhere Man]

Thanks for the replies. To my defense, I had seen others do this and didn't realize it was wrong. That's why I asked.:)

Dave

[Bogey]

Originally posted by DLM
Thanks for the replies. To my defense, I had seen others do this and didn't realize it was wrong. That's why I asked.:)

Dave


Make sure you let the Safety Officers know.....they'll award said people with a nice 20 second present.:supergrin:

[Jim Watson]

I don't think I have ever seen an FTDR given out. I called one on a guy who was arguing balls and strikes - uh, hits - with me but the rest of the crew jollied me out of it.

[SR_]

Originally posted by Jim Watson
I don't think I have ever seen an FTDR given out. I called one on a guy who was arguing balls and strikes - uh, hits - with me but the rest of the crew jollied me out of it.

I've seen 'um handed out and seen 'um stick.

In Oxford the SOs shoot before the regular match. If the head SO thinks you're gaming you'll get nailed for sure.

One day I was recovering from a cold. I flat out screw up the course of fire in a way that he thought was 'gaming.' Guess what I got.

I'm not sure he'd have done that in a major match, but it was a club match so no biggie. I wasn't gaming but I can understand that from his persective it might have looked that way.

If you ever have to call a FTDR, if you think it is right let it stick. Just turn and call for the next shooter. The shooter can appeal to the MD if they want.

I had a chat with Frank Glover one day about what the appropriate call would be in certain circumstances. I can't remember the specifics but I saw two options and Frank said he saw 3. I said that a SO could call a procedural (3 second) and if they thought the person was gaming a FTDR. Frank said that an SO could also choose to call nothing - which he thought might be the best action for a new or inexperienced shooter. (Have someone explain the rule so the person learned.) I thought that was a good tip so I thought I'd pass it along.

[Jim Watson]

Frank said that an SO could also choose to call nothing - which he thought might be the best action for a new or inexperienced shooter. (Have someone explain the rule so the person learned.)


Gotta be one of the few places I would disagree with Frank. If a new or inexperienced shooter screws up, I give him the penalty and explain why he got it. Pain is nature's way of telling you to stop doing that, and most people need some negative reinforcement of their bad actions.

[SR_]

I understand and agree with your logic.

In the context in which we were talking, and the infraction that we were discussing, it was an appropriate response. I wish I could remember exactly the scenario we discussed.

[byerly]

I'll call a procedural on anybody. For a new shooter, I'll explain how and why they got it politely. As far as FTDRs go, I've only had one shooter get one and he got five. Short version: Illegal holster, already shot five stages. 5 X 20=100 seconds. At the time he was pretty vexed but he came around. FTDR is like the death penalty, I've got to sure without any doubt before I put a guy in the chair.

[eljay45]

Originally posted by byerly
As far as FTDRs go, I've only had one shooter get one and he got five. Short version: Illegal holster, already shot five stages. 5 X 20=100 seconds.

Did you give him the FTDR at each stage or after 5 stages?

[SR_]

Originally posted by byerly
I'll call a procedural on anybody. For a new shooter, I'll explain how and why they got it politely. As far as FTDRs go, I've only had one shooter get one and he got five. Short version: Illegal holster, already shot five stages. 5 X 20=100 seconds. At the time he was pretty vexed but he came around. FTDR is like the death penalty, I've got to sure without any doubt before I put a guy in the chair.

I've seen you in action and I can say these things for certain -

> you don't hand out unnecessary penalties for minor infractions to shooters - that is you don't nit pick. There are just too many stories on the forums about SOs that run new folks off because they are not afraid to give a new guy a procedural penalty. byerly is not one of those kind of guys.

> you have a nice demeanor and you are VERY polite - heck, I'd even bet that after you explain the penalty most folks probably thank you.


The two items above are sincere – byerly is a well known and well respected SO (and SO instructor).

[zrxoa5793]

Originally posted by byerly
I'll call a procedural on anybody. For a new shooter, I'll explain how and why they got it politely. As far as FTDRs go, I've only had one shooter get one and he got five. Short version: Illegal holster, already shot five stages. 5 X 20=100 seconds. At the time he was pretty vexed but he came around. FTDR is like the death penalty, I've got to sure without any doubt before I put a guy in the chair.
FTDR is not the chair, D.Q., is the chair. I have only had one shooter D.Q. himself. (I just told him he was D.Q.ed) He was cool about it. He knew what he did, stood tall and took his D.Q. like a man. If you shoot, you have or will be D.Q.ed, learn from your mistake and get back in the next match.
:soap::soap: :soap:

[Bogey]

Originally posted by Jim Watson



Gotta be one of the few places I would disagree with Frank. If a new or inexperienced shooter screws up, I give him the penalty and explain why he got it. Pain is nature's way of telling you to stop doing that, and most people need some negative reinforcement of their bad actions.


I kinda agree, and kinda disagree.

A new shooter comes to my stage....he's clearly got his adrenaline flowing. He's been through several stages already, and all prior stages required double taps on all targets.

My stage starts with tactical sequence, and on the buzzer, he DT's the first target. He KNOWS he messed up, and continues to shoot the rest of the targets in proper order.


Now, we go to score the targets after he's done, and holy cow, he's down 20 or so. Am I gonna lop another 3 seconds on him? No....not usually. I explain and reinforce why there would have been a proceedural, and let it go.

Some shooters are on a different level. Like the 65 year old woman that's just as faithful to come out as the day is long. If she messes up, I tend to cut *some* slack under those kinds of circumstances.

[Bogey]

Originally posted by eljay45
Did you give him the FTDR at each stage or after 5 stages?


In cases like this, the shooter was using an illegal holster knowingly. Several SOs failed to detect it, and when he gets to a SO that DOES see it, he gets the penalty on ALL stages shot prior, as well as the one he got caught on.