Nagant M38 first range report

[Ron3]

See my cleaing thread too: http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=521675

After several days cleaning this rifle I finally got to the range. I could still get a dirty patch after scrubbing the bore, but after swabbing it dry they weren't too bad.

When I looked down the bore after not having done so for days I was pleasantly suprised! The dry bore was actually a little shiny and the rifling much more visible than before.

I went to the range and fired a couple shots away from my face and checked the brass. Well, copper-washed steel. I was using Wolf 147gr FMJ. Everything looked good.

I fired about 25 rounds standing, using a post for some stability. I had no problems with ejection or anything. I did have one split case I found later. It had a quarter-inch tear at the neck that didn't go to the case mouth. Any ideas what thats about?

When I checked my target there were about 18 of the 25rnds in it, the rest had gone high. The group was a pattern of about 18-inches. Okay, guess I need to shoot from a rest.

I aimed at the base of the target, sitting in a chair using my range bag as a rest. Wind was 10mph with higher gusts coming from my 1:30. I fired five rounds in less than minute. I took the target down and went home to measure since I forgot my ruler.

The group was still about a foot high! I had the rear set for 100 meters though? I'll have to see how to adjust the front sight, but at least the rounds were centered.

Getting back to the group, four rounds were 4 1/4 inches, (!) with a fifth round flier at 7 o'clock enlarging the group to 9-inches center to center. It was getting late and I didn't have time to fire another group from the rest.

Did I mention I was firing a stock $120 63yr old Russian Carbine using iron sights, a range bag as a rest, on a windy day using inexpensive Wolf ammo and got four shots into 4.25 inches, five shots into 9-inches, AT 200 YARDS?!

Heck yea, I was at the 200 yard range!

The only rifle I shoot with any regularity is my Mak-90, which is no tack-driver. But I do think the Nagant's sights being very similar to my AK's helped.

Maybe this was a freak thing, but I can't help but wonder what this rifle could do with a clean bore, high-quality ammo, a scope, and more practice!

I'll clean the bore more and try other ammo, but I'm not putting a scope on it.

I can't wait to go back to the range with this rifle and see what it does at closer ranges!

Thanks for the help you guys who looked into my cleaning topic!

Ron3

[Rick O'Shay]

Congratulations! The M38, M39, and M59 are all superb carbines. No doubt about it. I have the M59, and it is here to stay.

As for 200 yards, I'm a bit too old to use iron sights at anything over 100 yards, but I have no doubt that these carbines can shoot as well as we can see.

At 50 yards, mine will hold about 3" when I rest my elbow on the bench. Shooting Romanian milsurp ammo, the cheap stuff. I think that someone with young eyes could outshoot me with it.

[kalashnikovluvr]

I love my M38. I also love the different sound it has, much different then my other rifles. When I first shot mine I cut a 3-4" tree down, don't know how many shots it took, wasn't counting, but I cut the SOB down.

[Ron3]

Originally posted by kalashnikovluvr
I love my M38. I also love the different sound it has, much different then my other rifles. When I first shot mine I cut a 3-4" tree down, don't know how many shots it took, wasn't counting, but I cut the SOB down.

Nothing like using lead for some deforestation!

I like the sound and fireball these rifles make too.

While I was stopping to take a drink a guy came up to the only other shooter on the range (who was firing a nice bolt rifle with a big scope and getting under two-inch groups) and said "Man, whats that cannon you got there?" He obviously knew the guy. The shooter said, "oh, it's a .308". The guy says, "oh, thats it?"

I'm sure the noise he heard was coming from the old hunk of iron and wood sitting on MY bench!

Ron3

[jarrettclark]

I have gotten palm sized groups at 170 yds before with my m44. Everyone here likes to bash the Mosins as being not accurate, but i am constantly surprised when i walk downrange.

[briantf]

Pretty funny when the clouds rolled in with a high overcast - the muzzle blast on my M44 was excellent!

My M39 has a crummy trigger, unfortunately, so I shoot my 44 much more. On both I put a forward scope mount and a 2.5x pistol scope, makes them far more entertaining for me.

I have had far more hassles getting my Mausers up to par than I've had with my M-N's, I think the Russian approach to engineering works pretty darn well.

Regards,
Brian in CA

[jarrettclark]

Not to mention that Mosins are generally way cheaper than Mausers...

[jack19512]

Posted by briantf

"I have had far more hassles getting my Mausers up to par than I've had with my M-N's, I think the Russian approach to engineering works pretty darn well."






Just curious, what hassles have you had with your Mauser's? My experience has been just the opposite. I have had much better luck with the Mauser's than Mosins.

I find the Mauser's to be much more accurate and smoother. I have 4 Mosins and 3 Mauser's. If I had to sell any of them the Mosins would go first.

[jack19512]

Posted by jarrettclark

"Not to mention that Mosins are generally way cheaper than Mausers..."






There's probably a good reason for that. :)

[jarrettclark]

Yes there is. When the russians build something, apparently they build it in the tens of millions.

[kalashnikovluvr]

Originally posted by jack19512
Posted by briantf

"I have had far more hassles getting my Mausers up to par than I've had with my M-N's, I think the Russian approach to engineering works pretty darn well."






Just curious, what hassles have you had with your Mauser's? My experience has been just the opposite. I have had much better luck with the Mauser's than Mosins.

I find the Mauser's to be much more accurate and smoother. I have 4 Mosins and 3 Mauser's. If I had to sell any of them the Mosins would go first.



You have problems with your mosins? I have 4 Mausers and only 1 Mosin, have had NO problems with either. I mean the mauser is better build as far a quality goes, all my mausers a OK triggers and good bores. My mosins have a bad trigger but it doesn't bother me at all, the bores are dark but the rifle is accurate, as I said above it is accurate enough to cut a tree down, thats ok to me. I personaly love both rifles, both are great, the both have good and bad points. All I know is that I need some more Mosins to catch up with my Mausers. :)

[jack19512]

Posted by jarrettclark

"Yes there is. When the russians build something, apparently they build it in the tens of millions."







That is one of the reasons. :)

[jack19512]

Posted by kalashnikovluvr

"You have problems with your mosins?"







Not really problems. My Mosins are OK but if I had a chance to do it over again I would have bought the Mausers and left the Mosins alone.

Accuracy is a very important factor for me and my Mosins are outclassed by my Mausers.

Both my Mosins and my Mausers are accurate enough to cut down a tree. It's just that my Mosins like a lot larger tree. :)

I'm not going to make a ridiculous statement and say that all Mausers will outshoot all Mosins. I'm just saying so far I have purchased 4 Mosins and 3 Mausers and none of my Mosins will come close to outshooting any of my Mausers.

Now, having said that there might be some hope. I recently started reloading and reloaded some ammo for my M38 to start with. Mainly because I have a scope on it and not the others.

I did shoot a very respectable group from my M38 with my reloads. Don't know if the rest of my Mosins will improve with reloads or not, only time will tell.

I am a "only an accurate rifle is an interesting rifle" kind of person. If the accuracy isn't there the rifle either gets sold or doesn't get shot.

Just to give you an example here is a pic of the last group I shot from my K98 using my reloads. But keep in mind this rifle will shoot just about as good with the Yugoslavian 70's surplus ammo. Group was shot from 100 yards. Also keep in mind these reloads were reloaded with a hunting type bullet and not a target type bullet.

[jack19512]

Here is an average group from my K98 using the Yugo 70's surplus ammo. This group was shot by my son-in-law also from 100 yards and my groups with the K98 and Yugo ammo are similar.

The 2 Yugoslavian 24/47's I recently purchased show real good accuracy potential also. Anybody have any pics of their groups from their Mosins they want to share? :)

[kalashnikovluvr]

Originally posted by jack19512
Anybody have any pics of their groups from their Mosins they want to share? :)


I'm not really a benchrest shooter, I do all my shooting from standing, sitting, and prone, all offhand shots, no bipods, bags to lay your rifle on or anything like that. So I do not have a group anywhere near as good as yours from either my mauser or mosin. But I guess I could give the whole benchrest shooting/supported shooting thing a try, and try to get some pics of groups from my mosin next time I get some ammo. Whenever I do this I will be sure to post it on this forum.

[Ron3]

Went back to the range.

Didn't get good groups though, had some trouble. But the rear sight mod seems to have worked.

At 100yds, holding the sight at the bottom of the black on an nra standard 100 meter target, rounds were on to three inches high. Hard to say because accuracy was so bad though.

I hadn't cleaned the rifle since firing it the first time. (I only fired Wolf then) I should have. Some fliers were going real high and I found I was letting the bottom of the shoulder stock touch the table. Doh!

It seemed to be doing much better after that, but then went to crap again. I called it a day after about 50 rounds. Yes my shoulder hurts a little.

When I got home I ran glass cleaner with ammonia through it then cleaned it as normal with Hoppes 9. While doing this I found the screw on the bottom was only finger tight! Doh! I remmbered last time I had it apart I was concerned about not over-tightening and only snugged it up. Now I know and I made sure it's tight this time.

So six inch patters with some fliers is all I got today. Can hardly be called groups.

I'll go back again with a clean bore, tight screws, and better basic marksmanship.

Ammo I tried:

Hungarian silver-tip, yellow band,(grey laquer case) 1983 Polish (copper washed case) Wolf (copper washed), and Sellier and Bellot JSP (brass case)

The only time I had a problem was with the very last ammo I tried, the S&B. After firing the first round, I had to pound on the bolt to get the case out, which looked fine. Then next rounds of S&B were fine. Weird. Everything else fed and extracted fine. I guess I had the chamber pretty clean.

The heavy S&B and Hungrain ammo kicked hardest, the @148gr Polish ammo less, and the 148gr Wolf noticably less than that. Of course it's more fun to fire the rifle standing as it's easier on the shoulder. I need to get a shoulder pad for the thing.

I'll try to do better next time and let you guys know. (if anyone cares :rollsmiley: )

R3

[kalashnikovluvr]

Not trying to steal the thread or anything, but, why does everyone say that mosin nagants kick alot. My M38 didn't really kick, it was more of a push. Yeah I'm not the smallest guy at 5'11"-6' and 215-220lbs. Is it just the ammo I used? I was using some wolf, only 40 rounds. Ron3 said the wolf kicked the least for him, so I guess it was the ammo. When I get some money saved up I'll buy some polish or Hungrain ammo.

[Ron3]

Originally posted by kalashnikovluvr
Not trying to steal the thread or anything, but, why does everyone say that mosin nagants kick alot. My M38 didn't really kick, it was more of a push. Yeah I'm not the smallest guy at 5'11"-6' and 215-220lbs. Is it just the ammo I used? I was using some wolf, only 40 rounds. Ron3 said the wolf kicked the least for him, so I guess it was the ammo. When I get some money saved up I'll buy some polish or Hungrain ammo.

Standing up I could fire the thing all day, but sitting on a chair my shoulder has no were to go and after 30 rounds or so the pain starts to build. Kinda like hot sauce.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong. The Wolf ammo did kick the least.

I'm going to order some Polish 80's surplus though because a few places have it for $36 for a 440rnd tin! Thats $1.77 per 20.

Ron3

[kalashnikovluvr]

that is another factor into the recoil, I was shooting from a standing position when I was shooting the M38. I think I will try to get my hands on some ol' mil sup ammo that kicks as I like a rifle that will kick the living ***** outta me. LOL In fact that is one of the reasons I wanted a Nagant, because everyone said they kicked.

[Ron3]

If you want ammo that kicks there are a few Russian commercial brands that make 200gr-204gr bullets in this caliber.

R3

[68rcodemustang]

Originally posted by Ron3
Standing up I could fire the thing all day, but sitting on a chair my shoulder has no were to go and after 30 rounds or so the pain starts to build. Kinda like hot sauce.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong. The Wolf ammo did kick the least.

I'm going to order some Polish 80's surplus though because a few places have it for $36 for a 440rnd tin! Thats $1.77 per 20.

Ron3

Century has it for $29.87 for a 440 rd tin. get it quick.