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Titurel
04-08-2006, 19:16
The Philadelphia PD will not sign paperwork for full-auto weapons. I realize that this problem can be avoided by forming a corporation that will own the weapon. Is the situation the same with suppressors? I'd like to get one, but I'm not sure how much red tape is involved for Philadelphia residents. Thanks

PennGlock
04-09-2006, 11:14
I really cant imagine those ignorant bastards signing on for your suppressor. Corporation or Trust is probably your only option in Phila. An extra benefit of going these routes is that the total time to process your application will be up to 3 months faster.

trakker45
04-10-2006, 16:19
Your best option is to form a PA LLC (limited liability company) because there are no yearly registration fees. I am an attorney and have formed four LLCs for guys in your situation. Yes, you need a signature for suppressors and machine guns. If you want, I can do the paperwork for you for a fee. Shoot me a PM if you are interested.

DeadMansLife
04-11-2006, 21:26
Originally posted by trakker45
Your best option is to form a PA LLC (limited liability company) because there are no yearly registration fees. I am an attorney and have formed four LLCs for guys in your situation. Yes, you need a signature for suppressors and machine guns. If you want, I can do the paperwork for you for a fee. Shoot me a PM if you are interested.

Other than the paperwork, what is involved with forming an LLC?

Is there any other advantage to having an LLC other than Class III such as tax benifets, ownership of cars, property and such?

trakker45
04-12-2006, 07:55
It's just paperwork and a one-time filing fee of $125. And a short wait until the state tells you that the LLC has been registered.

The primary advantage to an LLC is limited liability (such as with a corporation) but you are not taxed as heavily as corporations. You report income for the LLC on your personal income tax return, schedule C.

So, for example, let's say you decide to start a business. You form an LLC for the business, and as a result, you are not personally liable for the business's debts (inventory, judgments obtained by creditors, etc.). Your creditors can only collect against the businesses assets, not your personal assets.

But when tax time rolls around, you report the LLC's income on your schedule C rather than filing a corporate tax return.

LLCs were created to avoid the double-taxation that corporations are subjected to under the tax code. It it the smartest way to go if you are forming a new business in PA (and want to register the business in PA).

You can own anything through an LLC, but I would not form one just to say I had one. If I owned rental property, then yes, I would probably form one to cover my ass if a tenant sued me.

DeadMansLife
04-12-2006, 19:31
I should have asked my question a bit differently.

Is there any advantage in running a family household as an LLC?

Let's say I have a sizeable investment in my childs future. I want to protect it from a law suit due to an accident(car crashes happen). Can I run my household as an LLC and keep my assets protected from a whip-lash hustler?

trakker45
04-20-2006, 07:17
Originally posted by DeadMansLife
I should have asked my question a bit differently.

Is there any advantage in running a family household as an LLC?

Let's say I have a sizeable investment in my childs future. I want to protect it from a law suit due to an accident(car crashes happen). Can I run my household as an LLC and keep my assets protected from a whip-lash hustler?

In this situation, I think the easiest thing to do would be to purchase a one million or two million dollar umbrella policy to supplement your car and homeowners insurance. My insurance agent quoted me $156 per year for a one million dollar umbrella policy. Trying to run your household as an LLC would be a pain in the butt, if you ask me. The umbrella policy simplies everything and would provide the added security you seek in the event that someone obtains a large judgment against you, such as in an auto accident, and your car insurance is inadequate to cover it. Hope this helps.

DeadMansLife
04-22-2006, 16:06
Thanks trakker45. I never gave a thought to insurance and $156 a year is a cheap investment considering what could be lost.

ZephyrNewYork
04-23-2006, 23:19
Originally posted by trakker45
Your best option is to form a PA LLC (limited liability company) because there are no yearly registration fees. I am an attorney and have formed four LLCs for guys in your situation. Yes, you need a signature for suppressors and machine guns. If you want, I can do the paperwork for you for a fee. Shoot me a PM if you are interested.

If you live in a non-Class III friendly state (state Z), but you form a LLC in a Class III friendly state (state X), is your LLC eligible to purchase Class III firearms in State X as long as you comply with the laws by storing/keeping them in State X and do not take them into State Z?


Frank

trakker45
04-24-2006, 07:40
Originally posted by ZephyrNewYork
If you live in a non-Class III friendly state (state Z), but you form a LLC in a Class III friendly state (state X), is your LLC eligible to purchase Class III firearms in State X as long as you comply with the laws by storing/keeping them in State X and do not take them into State Z?


Frank

The short answer is no. The LLC must be registered in a state where you reside or own a residence. But if you owned a summer home in state X, you could form an LLC in that state and store the weapons there while you are living in state Z.

ZephyrNewYork
04-24-2006, 10:51
Thanks :)


Frank

danp
05-05-2006, 10:57
Originally posted by Titurel
The Philadelphia PD will not sign paperwork for full-auto weapons. I realize that this problem can be avoided by forming a corporation that will own the weapon. Is the situation the same with suppressors? I'd like to get one, but I'm not sure how much red tape is involved for Philadelphia residents. Thanks

A corporation would work the same for a suppressor as anything else. I am also in Philadelphia and created an LLC so I could buy my M16, I plan on buying a gem-tech trinity next.

Shoot me an email dpehrson [at] pafoa.org or find me on http://www.pafoa.org/forum/ if you have any other questions or want more info on incorporating.

trakker45
05-05-2006, 13:38
Dan,

The Trinity is a bit outdated. If you are looking for a modular suppressor that could be used on your M-16 (in 9mm configuration) and a pistol, I would suggest the Trident9 by SWR. I bought one and am currently waiting for my form four to clear. It's a GREAT pistol suppressor (works like a charm on my Glock 17), and it supposedely is even better on a subgun. I plan on using it on my uzi smg soon. If you are ever in Pittsburgh, drop me a line and I will let you check it and my other suppressors out.

Be warned: suppressors are an addition. I have four and a fifth on the way (four 9mm cans and a Gemtech Outback).

danp
05-05-2006, 13:43
Originally posted by trakker45
Dan,

The Trinity is a bit outdated. If you are looking for a modular suppressor that could be used on your M-16 (in 9mm configuration) and a pistol, I would suggest the Trident9 by SWR. I bought one and am currently waiting for my form four to clear. It's a GREAT pistol suppressor (works like a charm on my Glock 17), and it supposedely is even better on a subgun. I plan on using it on my uzi smg soon. If you are ever in Pittsburgh, drop me a line and I will let you check it and my other suppressors out.

Be warned: suppressors are an addition. I have four and a fifth on the way (four 9mm cans and a Gemtech Outback).

Glad I posted here, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I want to attach it to an Oly Arms 9mm upper and a Glock 19, and I want it to support sporadic full-auto fire (Burst, maybe a mag dump every once in a while) I'll look into SWR before I make any decisions.

I wish I was closer to Pitt because I've actually never heard a suppressor and I'd love to take you up on that offer.

trakker45
05-05-2006, 13:56
The Trinity is only rated for "intermittent" full-auto fire and has all aluminum baffles. Not good for mag dumps.

The Trident is billed as a true subgun suppressor that can also be used on a pistol. It has a stainless steel blast baffle (the first baffle) and has more internal volume than the Trinity in order to withstand sustained full-auto fire. It's a little more expensive and heavier than the Trinity, but it is also more advanced technology.

It's too bad you are so far away. I know you would get a kick out of mine. They are so damn cool, and it is so nice not having to use hearing protection at an outdoor range when no one else is around.

ZephyrNewYork
05-05-2006, 18:31
I learned most of what I know about suppressors at this site.

http://silencertests.com

There's a forum too. Join and come on in! Tell them I sent you :)


Frank

ZephyrNewYork
05-05-2006, 18:33
Originally posted by danp
A corporation would work the same for a suppressor as anything else. I am also in Philadelphia and created an LLC so I could buy my M16, I plan on buying a gem-tech trinity next.

Shoot me an email dpehrson [at] pafoa.org or find me on http://www.pafoa.org/forum/ if you have any other questions or want more info on incorporating.


Thanks to everyone for replying. I already formed my LLC in Nevada early this year though. All I have to do now is change my residency.


Frank

cgk
09-12-2006, 11:31
Originally posted by trakker45
Your best option is to form a PA LLC (limited liability company) because there are no yearly registration fees.

Limited liability companies (LLCs) in PA are subject to annual franchise tax--$380/year minimum. [SEE CORRECTION BELOW] You can see the fee schedule HERE. (http://www.dos.state.pa.us/corps/cwp/view.asp?a=1093&Q=431161&corpsNav=|) I considered a trust (living trust, I suppose), but I think I'll actually form a PA limited partnership. With myself as a general partner and a family member as a limited partner. All I should have to pay is the $125 to file the Certificate of Limited Partnership with the PA Department of State, and no annual fees. The state even provides a form of Certificate of Limited Partnership you can fill out on line and then print. Look HERE. (http://www.dos.state.pa.us/corps/LIB/corps/20/7/8511.pdf)

trakker45
09-12-2006, 13:36
Originally posted by cgk
Limited liability companies (LLCs) in PA are subject to annual franchise tax--$380/year minimum. You can see the fee schedule HERE. (http://www.dos.state.pa.us/corps/cwp/view.asp?a=1093&Q=431161&corpsNav=|) I considered a trust (living trust, I suppose), but I think I'll actually form a PA limited partnership. With myself as a general partner and a family member as a limited partner. All I should have to pay is the $125 to file the Certificate of Limited Partnership with the PA Department of State, and no annual fees. The state even provides a form of Certificate of Limited Partnership you can fill out on line and then print. Look HERE. (http://www.dos.state.pa.us/corps/LIB/corps/20/7/8511.pdf)

You are incorrect, sir. The website is misleading. Call the corporations bureau and ask them about the franchise tax, like I did.

cgk
09-12-2006, 14:15
For all practical purposes, trakker45 is correct--no franchise fee on a PA LLC.

Here's the detail. The PA Corporation Bureau web site is misleading. The $380/year minimum fee it notes is only for a professional LLC and would not apply to a LLC formed to hold title to assets, such as a suppressor. The franchise tax does, however, apply to such a PA LLC, although it is being phased out through 2010. For any PA LLC that conducts modest business, however, it's not a factor. The annual tax is currently at a rate of 4.89 mil and it applies to the sum of (a) five year average net book income divided by .095 and (b) 75% of net worth less $125,000. So, in short, no annual cost for the use of a PA LLC such as the one we are discussing.

Thanks, trakker45!

trakker45
09-12-2006, 18:55
No problem. Thanks for explaining that- I didn't have time to do it while I was at work.

Arc Angel
09-13-2006, 09:57
:) A very interesting read. Thank you, all! :thumbsup:

cgk
02-12-2007, 13:48
Looking a bit deeper into this, now that 2006 is over, and it appears that the franchise tax is applicable to foreign (non-PA) entities. For PA LLCs look to the capital stock tax. The information in this thread on tax rates is good, but you still must file form RCT-101 and the supporting materials until the LLC has no assets whatsoever. The RCT-101 will have a lot of zeroes in it, but you have to file, even though no tax should ever be due.

Dogmeat00
02-12-2007, 17:05
is it possible to form a PA LLC for only the initial fees, no annual fees or taxes, providing you do nothing with it except hold titles to Class 3 and suppressors and such? Are such companies subject to the $200 tax stamp? Background checks? if you only bought assets with the company, never making a dollar, couldn't you write the losses off on your personal income tax and reduce your personal taxes?

hile
02-15-2007, 08:18
Originally posted by Dogmeat00
is it possible to form a PA LLC for only the initial fees, no annual fees or taxes, providing you do nothing with it except hold titles to Class 3 and suppressors and such? Are such companies subject to the $200 tax stamp? Background checks? if you only bought assets with the company, never making a dollar, couldn't you write the losses off on your personal income tax and reduce your personal taxes?

Interesting idea if it would work. Would the money you fork out for the MGs be considered "losses"?

trakker45
02-15-2007, 12:08
Yes, you can form an LLC simply for owning NFA weapons/silencers. Many people do it. The primary benefit is that you don't need a sheriff's signature on the registration paperwork. There is also no background check because the weapon is owned by a company, not a person. However, the company must pay the $200 tax just like individuals.

I wouldn't recommend reporting any "losses" from the purchase of a machinegun unless you actually sold it for a loss. The fact that you paid, say, $6,000 for a transferrable uzi does not mean you incurred a loss. That $6,000 is your cost basis in the asset. Use common sense, people.

ZephyrNewYork
05-04-2008, 11:17
No background check for LLCs? Are you sure?

Frank

Yes, you can form an LLC simply for owning NFA weapons/silencers. Many people do it. The primary benefit is that you don't need a sheriff's signature on the registration paperwork. There is also no background check because the weapon is owned by a company, not a person. However, the company must pay the $200 tax just like individuals.

I wouldn't recommend reporting any "losses" from the purchase of a machinegun unless you actually sold it for a loss. The fact that you paid, say, $6,000 for a transferrable uzi does not mean you incurred a loss. That $6,000 is your cost basis in the asset. Use common sense, people.

trakker45
05-15-2008, 11:15
No background check for LLCs? Are you sure?

Frank


Yes, quite sure. You don't send in any fingerprint cards, so who are they going to check on? As I said, the weapon is owned by a company, not a person. This is why the LLC/corporation/trust-owned weapons transfer much more quickly than personally-owned ones.