USPSA getting funny

[asintaderoche]

I did a few browsing on the uspa site and found some bizzare thread on the new Single Stack division being tried upon. What I don't really dig on this is why the hell they call it Single Stack Division if what they wanted is an old 1911 with a limitation on holster to use. It's very easy to just change the Division to 1911 Classic, or they should stand for the meaning of true single stack as to every single stack in existence should be legal to join (Sig,Glock,S&W etc.) I know glock should be in this Single Stack Division;)

[rhino465]

If you read carefully, you would have noted that the name of the new provisional division is "1911 Single Stack." That should dispense with at least one of your points. "Single stack" is the current vernacular (at least among the shooters I know) used to differentiate the single stack 1911-based guns from the wide body guns of the same lineage. The division name is precisely what it's supposed to be.

The rules were developed by Gary Stevens (USPSA Area 5 Director) and the rules of both the 1911 Society and IDPA CDP had some influence on the process. With the exception of some holster restrictions, the rules are quite similar to the 1911 Society. That's natural, because the orginal 1911 Society rules were based on the USPSA rule book that was current at the time.

There are some minor differences. In USPSA, the gun has to fit in the box with the magazine in it, but not in 1911Society. 1911 Society allows lightening cuts in the slide, but USPSA 1911 Single Stack Division does not.

This year the 1911 Society Single Stack Classic is also the inaugural USPSA 1911 Single Stack National Championship. For this match, the USPSA 1911 Single Stack Division rules will be used.

[cmzneb]

1911 guys tired of getting beat by the Glocks wanted their own division :supergrin:

[asintaderoche]

Rhino,
Sorry about that I miss the (one nine one one) only division on the main page. BTW I have another question about the USPSA Production, why is it they still limit the mag capacity to only ten rounds?

[BerKim]

Production:

I think a lot of the USPSA shooters live in states that have 10 round max (new purchases on magazines).

Calif, Mass, Ill, HI... others?

I think it's been discussed quite a bit about they could shoot ii L-10, etc.. or it starts a new equipment race (you'd probably have to go 9MM, to get the round advantage compared to 40).

I don't think anyone really knows :)

[rhino465]

Yeah, I don't know a good answer to that question either. I know Production in IPSC has no 10rd limit.

[RRPD1]

Every game has funny rules or rules that we might not agree with - Personally, I like the new provisional single stack division. I also shoot a glock in production and a STI Edge in Limited.

My thinking is pick a game (IDPA, USPSA, Bullseye, whatever)and master it - worrying about how the game is played or why certain equipment is or isn't allowed won't make anyone a better shooter.

Your mileage may vary ;)

[asintaderoche]

Since the Ban is over on most states, I guess USPSA should start turning over the rules. This would also give those Ban states a good reason to write their Representatives in congress to get some kind of exemptions. This way the USPSA would not look like they were a supporter of Clinton Ban.

Limited Ten should be replace by General Single Stack that includes all the single stack pistol. The production should be the same as IPSC with a flush fit mags legal.

The new division should be called:
Limited Ten Single Stack
LTSS

:cool:

[rhino465]

Send letters to your area director and section coordinator to let them know what you think.

[Ankeny]

Send letters to your area director and section coordinator to let them know what you think. It's faster and easier to just whine about it on the Internet. Not to mention cheaper considering the cost of a stamp.

[USPSA Guy]

So far I've found letters and e-mails to be useless when it comes to the 1911 division.

Much easier to simply limit L-10 to single stacks, and I mean ALL single stacks, not just the 1911.

Looking at the few major matches so far, USPSA has managed to create another revolver division in terms of attendence. However it hurts nobody that I can see, so what the heck. In 3 years it will be over and done with since the BOD set forth actual critera for making the division permanent. Too bad they didn't set their sights on the guns most people are buying (Gary even admits Production is the fastest growing division) instead of trying to lure CDP shooters who would already be shooting L-10 if they had the USPSA urge.

Personally I think limiting Production to 10 rounds is a good idea. The mandated mag capacity allows almost any otherwise suitable gun to be competitive. That's a good thing in terms of attracting new shooters. In IPSC, the gun with the most mag capacity has the advantage and anything that doesn't hold a lot of rounds is not competitive. Of course in IPSC, pretty soon it will be the best factory-built racegun that has the advantage.

However, it does seem that both USPSA and IPSC have rules that appeal to the majority of their members, so they are doing something right.

My take on things anyway.

[asintaderoche]

Much easier to simply limit L-10 to single stacks, and I mean ALL single stacks, not just the 1911.

Right on bro.....

Also to add that the Production Division has had a lot of influence in the new design of pistol nowadays, the glowing sight options and re-enginered magazine that hold max capacity to 16-17 flush fit. There were also significant improvement on triggers, double to single, LEM, DAK. Isn't it nice if Production Division would be a real production equipments. Let the industry competition have its own healthy way and let the consumers benefit. On the capacity issue, I would say why not the USPSA just follow the rules of magazine lenght.. 120mm, 140mm,, 170mm then also the magazine type .. single stack, double stack, drum or beta c and then the bullet size .355, .38, .40, .41,.44, .45, .454, or .50,. Sportmans are ingenius and creative let it that way, if they can stack 20 round of .50 cal into a 120mm single stack mags and can make it work in a glock. Why not?


;)

[Steve Koski]

Another bunch of "antique gunners" that want to be kept separate from the modern crowd. Can't stand anyone in their sandbox, like Bill Wilson's personally tailored CDP.

[Flexmoney]

Ten rounds in Production...

- You gotta work to be accurate, as you don't have a lot of extra bullets to blow.

- You gotta work on doing reloads well...with a "carry" style gun.

- Many guns can compete on a level playing field. If you go to "whatever capacity fits in the gun" then you make it a division that strongly favors 9mm guns with the most capacity.

- Having 10 means, you have to plan your stage tactics to a greater degree than Limted of Open gunners.

All that adds up to good stuff...heck, I wish it where limited-8 :)

[asintaderoche]

For the many of us this sport is comparable to car racing, there's a driver behind the equipment. The equipment along with the driver plays important rule in winning the game. Don't look at the game as an equipment race, say that a good equipment can always beat a good driver? We have rules for every equipment stock,modified,open and production, IPSC simply got a BOX then lay it's first rule.

The truth of the matter is that we sport shooter enjoys our equipment as much as we enjoy the game. If we are going to play it in a constricted way then we feel like driving in a major highway rather than in a sport game. See an ordinary production car will always have this 180 mph speedometer but the you can only use 65 of it in the highways but you can drive it to the max in the raceways.;)

Racing glock 17 in uspsa production has never been in full throttle, we are missing 40% of its ommmppphh!

[rhino465]

Originally posted by USPSA Guy
So far I've found letters and e-mails to be useless when it comes to the 1911 division.

I think that depends on how you define "useless."

If you mean you sent your comments and you didn't see immediate changes made to the rules, then I understand that. The thing is, Gary Stevens said from months before the provisional division debuted that the rules would not change while it was still a provisional division. He had to start somewhere, and I think for the most part the rules are pretty good.

So we don't really know whether or not our comments are usless or not, because they can't possible make a difference until the board entertains changes to the rules.

The things I've notice so far:

I like the holster rules. Keep them the same as Production Division. I fear the "concerns" expressed by the 1911 Society rulers about allowing the Blade-Tech dropped/offset holster may be given too much credence when the rules are revisited. I think it should remain allowed, or it should also be verbotten in Production.

I think lightening cuts in the slide ought to be allowed, especially since with a .45 they don't really do anything functional. Also, there are a buttload of old .45ACP race guns with slide cuts that could have their comps removed and given new life.

I think we can expect some rules changes with respect to extended dust covers and integral rails. I think accessory rails are here to stay for a significant portion of the "using" 1911 market (as well as other guns), and they should be allowed as long as they don't exist merely to add weight. If they're allowed on Production Division guns as they come from the factory, the ought to be okay for 1911s too. I would not allow bolt-ons or weld-ons, though.