AK47's from best to worst made

[meshmdz]

i am new to ak's and am thinking about getting one for a good price.. i am not concerned with them being that accurate.. i want something that is going to be tough as nails and durable, like my G26.

could yall post a list of ak's from best to worst? i have heard that romanian sk's are the cheapest and least reliable... thanks.

[.30]

Check out the Romanian SAR-1. They are excellent rifles. Very reliable and usually can be had for a decent price. Chinese Norinco's are also good AK's. Honestly most all AK's are tough and reliable. Romanian's get a bad rep due to the WASR 10's. The WASR's are not bad AK's but some need tweeking due to poor assembly and mag well jobs by the importer. The WASR I had was reliable and tough but had poor fit and finish. It ALWAYS went bang though.

Also check out Vector AK's. www.atlanticfirearms.com has them and they are real nice rifles. In my opinion the VEPR's, Arsenal's and the Valmet's are the best AK's out there. VEPR's are a little hard too find right now because of import problems, but a 7.62x39 version should run you around $600. The VEPR uses a heavy barrel and a thicker RPK machine gun reciever. In essence this is a semi automatic RPK that just oozes quality. Accurate, great trigger, fit and finish is excellent. The biggest drawback though is it is a heavy gun.

Arsenal's also kick ass. They are built in the US on a milled reciever and are top notch rifles top to bottom. They maybe the best quality AK's ever made. The biggest drawback to Arsenals is that they can be a bit pricey.

[El Duderino]

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=260


Quote:

"These are some of the best AK47 rifles we sell ..Thank You AtlanticFirearms.com"

[graveman]

+1 on the SAR .... they might be a bit difficult to locate ( imports stopped in 2004 ? ), and some have already been modded/Bubba-ed.
WASR's ( current imports ) will have magwell issues but still reliable.
The Armory products can be hit and miss from what I have gathered ..... if you want to spend $600 for an AK, try to find a VEPR, or you can get a Vector Arms.
The Century Yugo underfolders are very nice also, if you don't mind the mockery of a finish.
If you want THE best and are ready to shell out some bucks, get an Arsenal. Prices range from $500-$1200.

Any AK will be as reliable as your G26.

[454]

graveman-my Vepr will beat your Aresnal :)

3/4" groups at 100 yards. But it is a heavy gun.

[crazymoose]

Unless you get an AK that was imported single-stack (WASR, Saiga) and converted for hi-caps poorly, any AK will live up to the AK's legendary reliability. With more expensive AKs, you're paying for fit and finish, and sometimes more accuracy.

From my experience, this is how I would rate them.

VEPRs and Arsenals are the two best AKs out there. VEPRs aren't "real" AKs, but are the most accurate. The Arsenal is the nicest "real AK" out there.

Next are MAK 90/NHM 91s, Polytechs, Hungarian FEGs, and Vector builds. All are very good quality. The Chinese guns are especially good, since they use thicker stampings and barrels.

Last, I'd rate SARs, WASRs, Saigas, etc. Saigas are actually very well made, it's just that they have to be converted, which can cause problems. The AKs in this group are not bad at all, they're just not usually finished as nicely, shoot as accurately, etc. as the others.

[RadioHack]

I can't believe no one mentioned the Egyptian Maadi, one of the finer
AK's ever made. They were put together under Russian supervision on Russian equipment imported into Egypt. The closest thing you'll find to a "Russian" AK47 in semi-auto.
Look for the Maadi's imported into the U.S. by Styer-Daimler-Puch of New Jersey they are the best. The latter Maadi's were also imported by good ole' CAI, but they're still streets ahead of the Romanians.
I found one of the Steyr Maadi's for $400.00 at a Gun Show just a month or so ago, it's great!

[.30]

Originally posted by RadioHack
I can't believe no one mentioned the Egyptian Maadi, one of the finer
AK's ever made. They were put together under Russian supervision on Russian equipment imported into Egypt. The closest thing you'll find to a "Russian" AK47 in semi-auto.
Look for the Maadi's imported into the U.S. by Styer-Daimler-Puch of New Jersey they are the best. The latter Maadi's were also imported by good ole' CAI, but they're still streets ahead of the Romanians.
I found one of the Steyr Maadi's for $400.00 at a Gun Show just a month or so ago, it's great!

Yes the Egyptian Maadi's are great AK's, but for Russian AK's nothing beats the VEPR. The last Maddi I saw for sale was at a gun show. They wanted $650 for it:freak:

[CCF]

Originally posted by crazymoose
Unless you get an AK that was imported single-stack (WASR, Saiga) and converted for hi-caps poorly, any AK will live up to the AK's legendary reliability. With more expensive AKs, you're paying for fit and finish, and sometimes more accuracy.

From my experience, this is how I would rate them.

VEPRs and Arsenals are the two best AKs out there. VEPRs aren't "real" AKs, but are the most accurate. The Arsenal is the nicest "real AK" out there.

Next are MAK 90/NHM 91s, Polytechs, Hungarian FEGs, and Vector builds. All are very good quality. The Chinese guns are especially good, since they use thicker stampings and barrels.

Last, I'd rate SARs, WASRs, Saigas, etc. Saigas are actually very well made, it's just that they have to be converted, which can cause problems. The AKs in this group are not bad at all, they're just not usually finished as nicely, shoot as accurately, etc. as the others.

What did crazymoose mean by "real" or not real? I'm in the market for an AK, but I'm confused about the different makes. BTW, other than full-auto, what's the difference in the AKs we civies can buy, & do the full-autos have a 3-round burst feature? Also, are AKs currently being manufactured for any foreign armies? I'd really appreciate any answers to these questions.

[454]

Vepr has heavier than normal barrel and receiver. It makes it most accurate, but less "authentic". It does not have a bayonet lug, cleaning rod can not be stored under the barrel. No storage in the rifle butt. Since barrel is thicker, nit all flash-supressors/ breaks will work with it. It has a slunt cut receiver, just like its daddy, the RPK (Russian SAW), WASR, MAADi have straight cut receiver, so more aftermarket furniture will fit them. Vepr already has nice US-made polymer buttstock on it, so I was not planning on replacing it anyhow..

For me those considerations were far less important than longevity, accuracy, and workmanship on my gun. I went with Vepr, and would do it again in a hearbeat. It is heavy, but I can put 4 mags of ammo thru it, and the last shot will be just as accurate as the second (first is to foul the barrel, so it does not really count :) )

[454]

Yes, AKs are still manufactured to be used by other armies. Venzuela bought hundreds of thousands Russian AKs a while back. Cuba, Mozambique, Poland, Finland (Valmet), Czech and Slovakia, Yugoslavia, China, etc

[CCF]

thanx, 454 :thumbsup:

[Tacticalweapon]

Originally posted by 454
Vepr has heavier than normal barrel and receiver. It makes it most accurate, but less "authentic". It does not have a bayonet lug, cleaning rod can not be stored under the barrel. No storage in the rifle butt. Since barrel is thicker, nit all flash-supressors/ breaks will work with it. It has a slunt cut receiver, just like its daddy, the RPK (Russian SAW), WASR, MAADi have straight cut receiver, so more aftermarket furniture will fit them. Vepr already has nice US-made polymer buttstock on it, so I was not planning on replacing it anyhow..

For me those considerations were far less important than longevity, accuracy, and workmanship on my gun. I went with Vepr, and would do it again in a hearbeat. It is heavy, but I can put 4 mags of ammo thru it, and the last shot will be just as accurate as the second (first is to foul the barrel, so it does not really count :) )


For all of you Vepr heads out there, ACE folding stock is supposed to have stock adapters available around the end of April.

[454]

I blew my gun budget on ammo... Now I need to buy more bullets to reload my 454 Casull, have powder, primers, brass, but no bullets. Guess I'd need to work overtime this week....

[meshmdz]

Originally posted by graveman
+1 on the SAR ....

Any AK will be as reliable as your G26.






wow i am sold. great post graveman!:beer:

[graveman]

Originally posted by 454
It has a slunt cut receiver, just like its daddy, the RPK (Russian SAW),

I beg to differ, all of the AKM family weapons ( AKM and RPK ) have a straight-back receiver. The VEPR is sold in Mother Russia with the "civilianized" slant-ended receiver so that it won't take a military stock ( which is illegal there ).


Meshmdz,

Whatever AK you get, if you don't get the SAR, make sure it is "factory" built, or put together by a reputable builder ( Vector, Arsenal, Krebs Custom, AKUSA, Elite Firearms ) on a good quality US-made receiver ( OOW ). Stay away from "me and my cousin went to this build party with other AK afficionados" or "I formed the receiver myself and put it together with screws" deals.

GOOD LUCK !

[meshmdz]

graveman, thanks a million pal! god bless and god bless america!

[84S]

There are plenty of decent and great AK's out there, it is more important to worry about which ones to avoid. The homesick abortion the MISR-90, which is a mix of Chinese and Egyptian parts is one to avoid. I am not a big fan of the WASR Romanian models, but most seem to enjoy them. Other than unknown home builds of questionable quality, just about any AK will suit your fancy for a first one. In my opinion the best AK for the money is a preban Chinese 56s. They can be found for $600 to $700, and they are top notch quality.

[Gary G23]

Best = Bulgarian
Worst = Romanian

[dglockster]

Like .30 said, check out the Romanian SAR-1 rifles, especially the 2003 model.

For more on this great little rifle, go to: http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/index.shtml

[Hines57]

Got to put Galil's at the top of the list, followed closely by Valmet. There are a number of really nice builds in the upper middle range, like the arsenal and vepr. I am partial to the krebs worked over vepr. Next I would consider the norinco and polytech chinese. Romanian SAR's are very functional. Don't know anything about the WASR but heard plenty of bad stuff about the MISR.

Depends on how much you want to spend, you can go anywhere between $300 and $3000.

[Tacticalweapon]

Krebs KTR-03V built on a Vepr RPK receiver. Some consider this to be the best AK ever made, even better than the Israeli Galil or the Finnish Valmet. Also more accurate.

[amd65]

The best AK is the one you build yourself, or have built for you.

[Hines57]

Originally posted by Tacticalweapon
Krebs KTR-03V built on a Vepr RPK receiver. Some consider this to be the best AK ever made, even better than the Israeli Galil or the Finnish Valmet. Also more accurate. I'll let you know after I get to shoot them side by side, I want to do some checking to see if there is common ammo that they will all eat.

[Tacticalweapon]

The best production AK is going to be one that combines all of the best characteristics into one gun. Quality, reliability, and accuracy. Right now thats the Vepr.

[aj2001]

Sine it sorta fits into this topic, anyone familiar w/ or have an opinion on these guys?

http://cyoteecustoms.com/AK47.html

[graveman]

It's a hole-in-the-wall place in Duncan SC, seen them at the last show. They take a low-end WASR, refinish it, change the furniture to that airsoft-looking crap, and sell it like it's something extra special. Tried to call them last week looking for some stuff, but their phone was "temporarily disconnected".

[FL-obiwan]

I'm also new to this AK stuff. Thinking of buying one and setting it with a red dot/aimpoint sight of some type for short/medium range post Katrina type work. Any suggestions on mounting hardware and a good sight?

Thanks

[454]

Most AKs have a sight mounting bar on the left side of the receiver. You can get a Weaver mounting rail that goes on it. Any sight with a Weaver mount will fit.

Some also replaced the top hanguard with a handguard that has Picatinny rail.

[77hiboy]

Thanks graveman, just saved me $600. I have asked on various forums and no one knew anything about cyotee customs. Should have guessed since they can't even spell coyote right.
Crazymoose, I don't normally disagree with a post from a senior member, but, have you ever shot a Saiga, or even held one. Very well made and very accurate( people compare them with VEPRs ).

[graveman]

77hiboy,

You're welcome ! Do they really want $600 for a tricked-out WASR ?
I might get into that business :supergrin:, but at least I'll put K-Var furniture on instead of the Tapco contraptions.

[77hiboy]

Check out auction arms, he selling there, I like the looks of them but now that I know about the quality, I'll pass. Once again Thanks for the heads up!

[graveman]

OMG
$700 for this? :shocked:
http://pictures.auctionarms.com/4376131329/96cee7ca28cb16c61cd5ad85f69074de.jpg
Check out BS description here
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7304298

[crazymoose]

Originally posted by 77hiboy
Crazymoose, I don't normally disagree with a post from a senior member, but, have you ever shot a Saiga, or even held one. Very well made and very accurate( people compare them with VEPRs ).

I agree that if you get one that works, you get a real deal. Great quality, great price. The problem is that I've seen some crappy conversions done- wobbly mags, fire control parts that don't seem to fit right, etc. My advice would be just make sure you get to check it out before you buy.

[Krampus]

Best:
Valmet M62 or any Valmet Ak variation(holy grail of Ak's in my view)
Bulgarian Arsenal SLR95/93
Hungarian FEG SA85
I've heard Krebs, Vepr and Yugo Ak's are good, but I've never owned either of them.

Worst:
Norinco-works ok, finish is lacking.
Romanian-works ok, parts like sights and gasblock aren't always put on straight and level. Check individual guns before you buy.


Absolute worst-Hesse Arms or anything put together by them.

[crazymoose]

Originally posted by Krampus
Worst:
Norinco-works ok, finish is lacking.

All the Norincos I've seen have been great. They do blue their rifles instead of painting or parkerizing, but the workmanship on both my Norincos seems as good as that on my Bulgarian Arsenal or Vector. Plus they use thicker receiver stampings and barrels. I can see how the bluing might turn you off, but I wouldn't call the workmanship "lacking," and I'd also say that they don't work OK, they're excellent. Best triggers on an AK, IMO.

[84S]

Originally posted by crazymoose
All the Norincos I've seen have been great. They do blue their rifles instead of painting or parkerizing, but the workmanship on both my Norincos seems as good as that on my Bulgarian Arsenal or Vector. Plus they use thicker receiver stampings and barrels. I can see how the bluing might turn you off, but I wouldn't call the workmanship "lacking," and I'd also say that they don't work OK, they're excellent. Best triggers on an AK, IMO.

+1

[390ish]

I like my Romak with the thumbhole stock in 5.45x39. Shoots fine at 100 yards, doesn't jam, and tears the hell out of fruit at any distance in between.

[Tacticalweapon]

Because their all built on Kalashnikov actions, the best AK is going to be the most accurate AK.

[TammiJ]

Originally posted by crazymoose
All the Norincos I've seen have been great. They do blue their rifles instead of painting or parkerizing, but the workmanship on both my Norincos seems as good as that on my Bulgarian Arsenal or Vector. Plus they use thicker receiver stampings and barrels. I can see how the bluing might turn you off, but I wouldn't call the workmanship "lacking," and I'd also say that they don't work OK, they're excellent. Best triggers on an AK, IMO.

+2

[Bumpadrum]

HEAR! HEAR! I for one appriciate the scholorship and expertise shared on this thread. Thanks to those who know.
Drinks for all!:drink: :cheers: :tequila: :drunk:




Just wanted to use the little drinkin' bugs :puking:

[LApm9]

What 100 meter accuracy should one expect from an AK-47? From an Arsenal product? From an Armory? From a Vector?

Thanks!

[JGinzo]

I hear so much about how bad the Romanian Ak's are but I gotta tell you that I have WASR and just couldn't be happier with it! It shoots straight, put together well, no trigger slap, goes bang everytime I pull the trigger.

I can remember when the Chinese AK's were supposed to be crappy too...

[Bumpadrum]

Originally posted by LApm9
What 100 meter accuracy should one expect from an AK-47? From an Arsenal product? From an Armory? From a Vector?

Thanks!
I'm interested in this too. Also, what inexpensive "red dot" type sight is most effective? I stress inexpensive because there's no point putting a $300 sight on a $400 rifle.

[graveman]

Your average AK with Wolf ammo and open sights should be able to engage a milk jug at 100 m, depending on who's doing the shooting and if the rifle has been sighted in properly.

YMMV.

[50 Cent]

The talk about accuracy makes me wince a bit - hell, I have trouble SEEING a target at 75 yds much less getting it in the bullseye. Add to that if guys were shooting back and there was general mayhem going on, how accurate does it have to be?

Realistically, the only "real world" use we would have for our AK's is a SHTF scenario a la Katrina (with hurricane season coming up that why I got my WASR10 - and found it was more fun to shoot than my pistols :supergrin: ). Urban combat at ranges under 50 yds - probably 25-35 yds.

For that, the Ak will do just fine.

[LApm9]

I did the some of the Katrina thing. Found a powerful concealed pistol to be "useful", but I am pondering the possibility that some bad actor may show up with an AK. I would likely be the better shot, but would lose that advantage if the rifle was too inaccurate. I'd want something that would hold a 3" 3-shot group at 100 meters.

My trusty 30-30 will do that, but an AK has a intimidating appearance and can fold up and go under the truck seat.

[-gunut-]

Originally posted by Gary G23

Worst = Romanian

Hey hey hey hey hey! Hey, hey....





hey....

[graveman]

Originally posted by LApm9
I would likely be the better shot, but would lose that advantage if the rifle was too inaccurate. I'd want something that would hold a 3" 3-shot group at 100 meters.

My trusty 30-30 will do that, but an AK has a intimidating appearance and can fold up and go under the truck seat.

With proper zeroing, proper ammo, and LOTS OF TRAINING one can accomplish such task to some extent with an AK. Like they said, and I said, 100 m is pretty far out there to see clearly with the naked eye. 3" 3-shot group at 100 m with open sights takes a lot of luck and practice with ANYTHING with OPEN SIGHTS. Scopes are a different story.
I don't really see how much the AK would look more "initimidating" from the receiving end at 100 meters. Closer in, yes. If you are the average roaming BG, the AK has a very powerful psychological impact.

[WIG19]

Anyone got some input as to price range they've seen (from a regular shop) on Yugo underfolders?

:patriot:

[graveman]

Local shops here have Yugo Underfolders for $475 plus tax, which translates into about $500 OTD unless you haggle a few bucks off.

[WIG19]

Originally posted by graveman
Local shops here have Yugo Underfolders for $475 plus tax, which translates into about $500 OTD unless you haggle a few bucks off.
Thanks for the intel; I've been thinking about one to become the 'specimen' in my collection that represents an AKM, just like one needs to have at least one 1911, one heavy revolver, one cowboy, one of this, one of that, etc. (and the darn things are handy)

I've got a very good brick & mortar gunshop I deal with that I'm loyal to so now I've got an idea - thanks again.

:patriot:

[Quake Guy]

Wow, have I been around that long that noone else remembers these, the absolute worst AKs that use regular doublestack magazines are:

B-West Guns, preban, soft receivers although some are ok, just most aren't

Egyptian MISR, postban, a combination of mismatched trunnions and barrels between Egyptian parts and Chinese parts assemmbled by Century

A Romanian is a big step up from either of these.

For what is readily available and reasonably priced:

Century Yugo Underfolders, the one I handled looked pretty good and reports have been favorable, $450-500.

Vector, range from $475-575 depending on model.

http://www.azexpertarms.com/index.html, he has them for sale time to time, excellent, $650-700 depending on model.

And of course the Romanians, $325-375, for a little more though, I would strongly consider the others above.

I did not mention Arsenal cause its hard to figure out what's really available, many are still sold in post ban configuration. Plus I live in AZ just down the road from their HQ in Vegas and I see maybe 3 or 4 of these in a year at the gunshows. And they can be way overpriced. $1200 for a underfolder, LOL. Maybe if it was gold plated... And VEPR, I have not seen a new one in 2 years.

[Strider47]

I turned in my 2 week old GP WASR-10 and ordered a Vector under folder from Atlantic-Firearms. The difference in fit and finish is staggering. I'm sure the WASR would have worked fine, but for a couple hundred more bucks the Vector is well worth it.

[big68]

how bout these? http://www.arsenalinc.com/calibers762.htm

[graveman]

IMHO Arsenal are THE best, period. And they are priced accordingly. The "bad" thing about Arsenals is that there are too many variations, I think they went all-out with their product line. But when all the kits are gone, and all the WASRs are gone, they'll still be around.
Quake Guy, you'll be amazed there are people out there paying $1500 and up for supposedly NIB Polytech Legends and the such. I wouldn't do it. Max price I will pay for an AK is $500.

[big68]

Graveman, so the Arsenal are great guns but parts may be a problem in the future? Just trying to understand the possible problem in the future.

[graveman]

big68,

Parts per se will still be around. The ATF has banned importation of BARRELS for AK's and other "non-sporting" firearms beginning the first of this year or thereabouts; hence the price of a finished rifle will go up in the future as the barrels will have to be made here ( like the Century Yugo Underfolders ). As with the US-made magazines, barrels produced here might or might not be of comparable quality with those made by the "godless Commies". I was implying that Arsenal already has a production facility here with Bulgarian machinery to produce AK's ( and possibly parts ), while others are still struggling to reverse-engineer stuff ( look for example at the K-Var US-made stock set vs the TAPCO contraptions ).

[CGuns]

Originally posted by Tacticalweapon
The best production AK is going to be one that combines all of the best characteristics into one gun. Quality, reliability, and accuracy. Right now thats the Vepr.

Sorry. Own both.
MILLED BULGARIAN IS CLEARLY BETTER.

[Tacticalweapon]

Originally posted by CGuns
Sorry. Own both.
MILLED BULGARIAN IS CLEARLY BETTER.

Sorry, have owned both. MILLED BULGARARIAN IS CLEARLY INFERIOR.

Vepr is 50-100% more accurate. Vepr's accuracy negates milled Bulgararian receiver.

[Quake Guy]

yeah, I had an Bulgie with the black thumbhole, accuracy has pretty mediocre, even by AK standards.

Have not shot a VEPR.

I can understand 4 digit prices for true prebans. What surprises me is that after the preban stuff is now more expensive than they were before the ban expired. They initally took a dive in value, but are way up again.

I remember seeing preban fixed stock Polytech AKs in the $700-$800 range, they are 4 figures now.

[Tacticalweapon]

Originally posted by Quake Guy
yeah, I had an Bulgie with the black thumbhole, accuracy has pretty mediocre, even by AK standards.

Have not shot a VEPR.

I can understand 4 digit prices for true prebans. What surprises me is that after the preban stuff is now more expensive than they were before the ban expired. They initally took a dive in value, but are way up again.

I remember seeing preban fixed stock Polytech AKs in the $700-$800 range, they are 4 figures now.


Just look at current politics. The Democrats that plan on running for the white house in 2008 are either against gun ownership completely or are for strict gun control.

The anti-gun Republicans that have crawled out of the woodwork that want to run in 2008 make me sick and there are not that many of them to begin with.

The only pro-gun contender for 2008 is Senator Bill Frist.

No wonder AK prices are going up.

From the Federal level the future of gun ownership in America after 2008 may be in great doubt.

[aaronrkelly]

I have a Norinco I gave $250 for, a WASR I have $320 in and a Vector Polish underfolder that I gave $550 for.


In the order of worst to best of the three I own...

worst - WASR....fit and finish suck but the gun has NEVER failed to go bang. It has mag rattle and the wood was horrible.....but never failed.

way better - Norinco.....fit and finish is miles ahead of the WASR. Gun is overall built better, also no failures.

best - Vector......this thing is like a beautiful car. Fit and finish is excellent, flawless. Gun has also never failed. Its my favorite rifle.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/aaronrkelly/All%20Guns/Image00001.jpg

[graveman]

Originally posted by Tacticalweapon
Just look at current politics. The Democrats that plan on running for the white house in 2008 are either against gun ownership completely or are for strict gun control.

The anti-gun Republicans that have crawled out of the woodwork to want to run in 2008 make me sick and there are not that many of them to begin with.

The only pro-gun contender for 2008 is Senator Bill Frist.

No wonder AK prices are going up.

From the Federal level the future of gun ownership in America after 2008 may be in great doubt.

:deadhorse:

Either would not be comfortable with the "lowly peasants" having access to weapons which make them able to defend themselves against "the terrorists clad in black fatigues". They'll either ban them outright ( a la AWB ), or make them overly expensive by cutting off the supply of cheaper parts ( see latest ATF ban on importation of "non-sporting barrels" ).

[crazymoose]

Originally posted by Tacticalweapon
Sorry, have owned both. MILLED BULGARARIAN IS CLEARLY INFERIOR.

Vepr is 50-100% more accurate. Vepr's accuracy negates milled Bulgararian receiver.

+1

With a VEPR you're talking about AR-15 type accuracy. No milled Arsenal I have ever seen or shot has done that, no matter how much less "receiver flex" it has.

[Tacticalweapon]

Originally posted by crazymoose
+1

With a VEPR you're talking about AR-15 type accuracy. No milled Arsenal I have ever seen or shot has done that, no matter how much less "receiver flex" it has.



My Vepr's will shoot sub MOA groups which most people say is impossible for an AK. I do have to say However that most people do not buy AK's for their accuracy so a Vepr is not for everyone.