17 vs 19 IDPA

[StraitR]

What would be the biggest differences/advantages between the 17 and 19 for IDPA? Does the 1/2 inch in barrel length/weight really make that much difference?

Thanks in advance...:beer:

[bruce282]

Some folks say the benefit is in the increased sight radius on 17, other say the 17 has better balance due to the longer slide and barrel. And yet other swear by the 19. I shoot a 17 in IDPA and ever now and then in USPSA. I like the feel but to be honest have never tried a 19. If you can try both of them, I'd say go with the one that fits you the best.


Bruce

[Wicked96SS]

I shoot IDPA with a G17, G19 or a G34 depending on what I feel like the day I pack my range bag... and to be honest, I really can't tell the difference between any of them. I tend to do a little bit better when I use the G34, but between the G19 and G17, very little difference. But, that is just me.

If you are looking to get a pistol, the only consideration I would give between the 2 is if you are going to carry it a lot.. the G19 might be more comfortable to carry.

[Andrew Colglazier]

Originally posted by StraitR
What would be the biggest differences/advantages between the 17 and 19 for IDPA? Does the 1/2 inch in barrel length/weight really make that much difference?

Thanks in advance...:beer:

I prefer the 17/34 for IDPA, but I know lots of people who shoot the 19 very well also.

My advice, if you go with either, would be to change out the stock sights for sights which are more precise, such as the Heinie straight eights or perhaps Dawson adjustables.

The 19 can really benefit from this change, as the short sight radius in conjunction with the big blocky Glock sights makes for very poor intermediate or distance shooting.

Andy C.

[Jim Watson]

If you want to exercise your carry gun, the G19 will do ok.
If you want better scores, the G17 must have SOME advantage because so many of the top shooters use them... those who don't shoot G34/35.

[AggieMax]

Very early in my IDPA "career", I used a 19. I chose to sell that and use a 17 because I liked the longer grip and the magazines were longer and easier to handle. Also, I liked the balance of the 17 better than the 19.

[StraitR]

Thanks to all that posted. Your advice seems sound, and I appreciate you taking the time to help. I went with the 19 bc it will be a carry gun, then a IDPA gun and not the other way around. It just seemed smart to buy the one best suited for carry, and try to adapt it to IDPA than buy it for IDPA then try to adapt it for carry.

I will look into the sight change. I like the funtionability of the Novak night sights.. Any thoughts on, or experiences with these?

[WellArmedSheep]

Don't forget...you can always buy a 17 later.;) Then a 34, then a 26...

[StraitR]

Originally posted by SCRCTeach
Don't forget...you can always buy a 17 later.;) Then a 34, then a 26...
I'll consider myself warned... :2gun:

[Steve Koski]

It's IDPA. Shoot what you carry. Get very very proficient with it. You'd be surprised at the excellent shooters with 19's and 23's who can run circles around the rest of us mortals.

[shootingbuff]

Originally posted by StraitR
Thanks to all that posted. Your advice seems sound, and I appreciate you taking the time to help. I went with the 19 bc it will be a carry gun, then a IDPA gun and not the other way around. It just seemed smart to buy the one best suited for carry, and try to adapt it to IDPA than buy it for IDPA then try to adapt it for carry.

I will look into the sight change. I like the funtionability of the Novak night sights.. Any thoughts on, or experiences with these?

SR,

There is no special mods you will have to do to a 19 that one would not do to a 34 or 26 even. Those are make sure you have a set of sights that work for your needs and a lot of "good" practice.

If you want the most you can smooth the trigger and go to a lt wt recoil spring and more "good" practice.

Bottom line is just shoot the crap out of it for a while then decide if there is anything you want to do to it. The pistol is more capable then most of us mortals.

Listen to Steve K.

Now AFA the subject of 19 vs 17 both are good choices and one should for IDPA shoot what you carry and carry what you shoot. Of course many don't. It is nice whopping up on them with a compact carry pc. So practice my friend and doom on those others.

sb

[Bren]

I've shot IDPA with a 19, 17, 22 and 34. My first Glock was a 17 and I couldn't believe how much harder it was to shoot the 19 equally, since it didn't seem like an extra 1/2" would make much difference - shortly after starting IDPA I traded in the 19 and I now shoot a 17. It makes a huge difference. Now, even though I have more time shooting the 17, I can borrow my wife's 34 and instantly shoot better. IMO, the difference is big. If you are looking to buy a Glock for IDPA, get a 34. If you are looking for mixed IDPA and carry, get a 17 - I think it's easier to carry a little extra gun than to shoot a little less gun. For carry only a 19 would be OK.

[shootingbuff]

First off the org poster sounds as if he wants to shoot what he carries which is what IDPAs intent is though in no way can be enforced.

Second for IDPA most folks would be better served with a 17, 19, or even a 26 over a 34.

A P/T is just a crutch in IDPA. Make sure the sights work for you and practice. Most folks listen to the hype and buy the P/Ts thinking it is a cure all. It is not but practice is.

Middlebrooks has shown proof that the smaller guns can in TSA and the TSA classifier is much harder than the IDPA classifier with a target that is "SO" much less forgiving than an IDPA target. ;))

I can post my results with the smaller guns but it is only my comments and results only known by those I shoot with. Yours are yours, but D.R.M has shown proof.

sb

[MarkP]

Originally posted by StraitR
What would be the biggest differences/advantages between the 17 and 19 for IDPA? Does the 1/2 inch in barrel length/weight really make that much difference?

Thanks in advance...:beer:

not much difference from my perspective - I can miss just as fast with either of them :supergrin:

[G24=40cal]

I carry the same weapon as I shoot IDPA with a G17 !!!!!!!!!!!!

[D.R.Middlebrook]

To answer the question from a more scientific perspective, on the Tactical Shooting Association (TSA) classifier the performance difference between the G19 and the G17 is about 4 seconds (max) and the difference between the G17 and the G34 is about 4 seconds again.

This research was done by comparing scores shot by IDPA National Champions Dave Sevigny, Daniel Horner, Julie Goloski and myself.

Here is more information on the breakdown of scores of other shooters(this is taken from the TSA Rulebook):

10. Shooter Classifications

10.1 TSA Shooter Classifications: TSA competitors will be divided into (6) shooter classifications based upon their performance on the TSA Classifier Match (TSAC1) and/or their performance at MAJOR TSA matches. Classifications are based upon a percentage of the Top Grand Master Scores submitted for each handgun division. The times and classifications for the respective divisions are as follows:

Full-size Pistol (FP) Division Classifier Numbers

Grand Master (GM) = Less than 70 seconds

Master (MA) = Less than 85 seconds

Expert (EX) = Less than 105 seconds

Sharpshooter (SS) = Less than 135 seconds

Marksman (MM) = Less than 195 seconds

Novice (NV) = More than 195 seconds

Unclassified (UC) Not eligible for prizes



Mid-size Pistol (MP) Division Classifier Numbers

Grand Master (GM) = Less than 74 seconds

Master (MA) = Less than 90 seconds

Expert (EX) = Less than 111 seconds

Sharpshooter (SS) = Less than 143 seconds

Marksman (MM) = Less than 207 seconds

Novice (NV) = More than 207 seconds

Unclassified (UC) = Not eligible for prizes


Compact Pistol (CP) Division Classifier Numbers

Grand Master (GM) = Less than 78 seconds

Master (MA) = Less than 95 seconds

Expert (EX) = Less than 118 seconds

Sharpshooter (SS) = Less than 151 seconds

Marksman (MM) = Less than 218 seconds

Novice (NV) = More than 218 seconds

Unclassified (UC) = Not eligible for prizes

Hope this info helps...

www.TacticalShooting.com

[Jim Watson]

Very interesting.
The last time I shot the IDPA classifier, I was less than 3 seconds short of Expert.
So, shootingbuff, are you telling me that going to a gun that would get me a four second gain as reported by your authoritative source is using a crutch?

[cnemikeman]

I carry a G19.....but can't shoot it in competition.
The smaller frame gun gives me slide bite....and after the end of a match, it ain't no fun. That's why I switched to and use the bigger frame... not about gaming, about saving skin. :)

Mike

[Bren]

Another problem I've run into with the G19 and G23 is that it can be harder to reload if you hand is big enough to go all the way to the bottom of the grip. I traded Glocks with a guy in a class once and when I slammed the mag into his G23 I ended up with a blood blister at the edge of my palm from catching skin between the mag and well. If I can't reload it fast, it's no use to me in a match (and a potential liability outside a match).

[Andrew Colglazier]

Originally posted by Bren
Another problem I've run into with the G19 and G23 is that it can be harder to reload if you hand is big enough to go all the way to the bottom of the grip. I traded Glocks with a guy in a class once and when I slammed the mag into his G23 I ended up with a blood blister at the edge of my palm from catching skin between the mag and well. If I can't reload it fast, it's no use to me in a match (and a potential liability outside a match).

Absolutely agree. This is why I don't have any of the small frame glocks... the 26 and similar.

But the vast majority of folks here never shoot classes or competition, so don't know how length of grip can diminish the "handleability" of their chosen primary pistol. It works great at the static range, they have all the time in the world to shoot a mag up, all the time in the world to juggle the weapon and mag to get the two together, so what's the big deal, right??

Andy C.

[MarkP]

Originally posted by Bren
Another problem I've run into with the G19 and G23 is that it can be harder to reload if you hand is big enough to go all the way to the bottom of the grip. I traded Glocks with a guy in a class once and when I slammed the mag into his G23 I ended up with a blood blister at the edge of my palm from catching skin between the mag and well. If I can't reload it fast, it's no use to me in a match (and a potential liability outside a match).

That's why use 17 mags when reloading the 19.

[shootingbuff]

Originally posted by Jim Watson
Very interesting.
The last time I shot the IDPA classifier, I was less than 3 seconds short of Expert.
So, shootingbuff, are you telling me that going to a gun that would get me a four second gain as reported by your authoritative source is using a crutch?

Sorry for the delay I posted Sat but I guess the post got lost.

Four seconds spread out over a series of drills and no cover garment is not much and will not reflect on a match in the neg but a positive and with the close encounters of the "avg" dispute will be a positive there also.

Once folks start practicing and training they will find out for IDPA, TSA, and disputes of the kind where a firearm is required the smaller guns have the advantage. Those types of uses just don't require a full size pistol especially when the larger pistols start being a disadvantage.

It is shown here that the P/Ts do OK but compacts usally win over P/Ts with full size pistols coming in 2nd. I have seen 26s win matches. It is the shooter and then the pistol. If a person is chosing a pistol for the game they need to understand the game and pick accordingly. Not use a P/T for a crutch for lack of practice or training.

Thanks for the question.

sb

[Andrew Colglazier]

Originally posted by shootingbuff
Sorry for the delay I posted Sat but I guess the post got lost.

Four seconds spread out over a series of drills and no cover garment is not much and will not reflect on a match in the neg but a positive and with the close encounters of the "avg" dispute will be a positive there also.

Once folks start practicing and training they will find out for IDPA, TSA, and disputes of the kind where a firearm is required the smaller guns have the advantage. Those types of uses just don't require a full size pistol especially when the larger pistols start being a disadvantage.

It is shown here that the P/Ts do OK but compacts usally win over P/Ts with full size pistols coming in 2nd. I have seen 26s win matches. It is the shooter and then the pistol. If a person is chosing a pistol for the game they need to understand the game and pick accordingly. Not use a P/T for a crutch for lack of practice or training.

Thanks for the question.

sb

I respectfully, but completely disagree.

The larger pistols have an advantage over small pistols in all areas but compactness and ease of carry.

They are more easily shot, handle better, reload better.... in every area, they are simply better.

Four seconds in a match or a gunfight is a lifetime.

Certainly, shooting IDPA is one of the best ways to discover why the little guns AREN'T better, and that is why so few people who shoot seriously stay with the smaller guns.

Andy C.