Double Tap 215gr WFNGC for Bear?

[Redondo]

I retired my Ruger .41mag that I carried as my woods gun for many years. Recently I've been carrying a G20, but would like to change my ammo. I've been using a 1000fps 190gr hollow point. Black bears are very common where I live. The 3 that peak my interest from Double Tap are, the one in my subject line, the 230 grain equalizer, and the 200gr XTP. Encountering bears during my hikes is a very real possibility, hell it's a probability. Sometime I'll tell you my story of a stare down with a bear, me and my 41mag.. I've opted for the 10 for various reasons. I just want ammo opinions. All serious ones will be appreciated. Thanks. ADDED: I took a look at the penetration stats. posted in McNett's sticky. Has the WFNGC been tested yet?

[Reyn]

Id go with 200gr XTP or the 215gr hardcast by DT. I dont think you would get enough penetration with the Equalizer for bear.

[nickn]

Originally posted by Reyn 61
Id go with 200gr XTP or the 215gr hardcast by DT. I dont think you would get enough penetration with the Equalizer for bear.

:agree:

[nickE10mm]

I would go with Beartooths. The XTP would be okay, too, but I'd rather have MAXIMUM penetration and "slap" power, and a wide flat point and high veloity seems to be just the ticket. I believe that McNett tested the old 200 grain Beartooth (not 215 grain) and he measured the penetration in # of pine boards instead of inches in gelatin. The BTB will penetrate like no other, period. Its got bone breaking power. Don't ever consider the Equalizer for possible bear encounters.

[ColoradoPacker]

Just curious, Are we talking black bear herbivores or brown bear carnivores? Is the 10mm a last resort, like you can't get to a rifle or shotgun slug?

We have a couple of black bears in the neighborhood, without cubs that we know of. I still keep a .30-30 with 170gr Fusion ammo in case they felt threatened and attacked. The 10mm would be a backup only because I can get it from the quick access safe faster, since the rifle is locked in a softcase with luggage lock.

I plan to keep the 200gr XTP in my Witness 10mm because I think the HP sharp edge would be less likely to deflect off the skull, but would still give 16-20" penetration from what I have heard from deer hunters. I'd bet a bear can attack for 2-3 minutes with a bullet in the heart, so I am shooting him in the head in the event of attack (remembering that their brainstem is much lower than the skull cap - never shoot them above the eyes, aim for the face I was told).

Sounds like a plan?

[ColoradoPacker]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192746,00.html

Black Bear Attacks, Seriously Injures Hunter in Wash.
Sunday, April 23, 2006

FORKS, Washington ? A black bear attacked and seriously injured a hunter on a road just outside Olympic National Park in Washington state late Saturday, authorities said.

A second hunter shot and killed the bear before summoning help, said Larry Evans, a shift supervisor for the Washington State Patrol's office in Bremerton.

The injured hunter, whose name wasn't released, was rushed to Forks Hospital with a compound fracture to the arm, a broken hand and several bite marks, Evans said. The victim lost a significant amount of blood, but was expected to survive, Evans said.

The bear had apparently dragged the man away from the site of the attack before it was shot, Evans said.

Troopers said they receive occasional reports of cougar attacks in the area, but bear attacks are relatively rare.

Forks is a small town near the northwest edge of Olympic National Park, one of the state's most popular attractions for nature lovers.

[C.Smith]

When was that bear attack?

Corey

[ColoradoPacker]

Originally posted by C.Smith
When was that bear attack?

Corey

This past weekend. The article is from Sunday.

[Redondo]

Thanks for the opinions guys.

[ppro]

The 215 WFNGC IS about as good as you could possibly get, out of the 10MM for bear, bar none.

It will edge out the sectional density of the 41 caliber 220 grain, which is a good penetrator.

On the subject of what type of bullet for heavy bone or bear brain pan shots...hands down, the heavy cast with BN 20 to 22 (which the 215 WFNGC IS) is superb. Jacketeted bullets (including hollow points) will deflect much more readily on angled brain pan shots that a bullet like the WFNGC 215. This is so because jacketed bullets are designed to expand and a hard angled surface like bone frontal plate can flaten and or collapse the bullet, as compared to the hard cast. This is THE reason that Elmer Keith completely quit using the jacketed bullets out of handguns for bear and especially for frontal head shots.

The large wide flat point profile of the WFNGC is perfect for the task. Elmer would have really liked that bullet if he were still around (except for round lube grooves, which he hated).

It would be my first top choice, and I would never worry about that choice..... but as always, give me a good rifle or the right loaded shotgun first....or good backup, or both.

Paul

[ColoradoPacker]

Good point, no pun intended...

[nickE10mm]

Originally posted by ColoradoPacker
Good point, no pun intended...
:bigsmile:

[noway]

is this 215gr WFN/GC suppose to be from beartooth bullets?

One thing you might want to check out is how well this feeds in a 3rd praty blls if you have a KKM or something else. I had various feed problems in2 bbls with using this load. Just something to think about.

btw: in a stock bbl it was 101% reliable.

[nickE10mm]

Originally posted by noway
is this 215gr WFN/GC suppose to be from beartooth bullets?

One thing you might want to check out is how well this feeds in a 3rd praty blls if you have a KKM or something else. I had various feed problems in2 bbls with using this load. Just something to think about.

btw: in a stock bbl it was 101% reliable.

The WFN/GC is a Beartooth bullet, yes.

Last year or so, Mike at DT told me that to make this round more reliable in feeding, he seats the bullets a little bit deeper in the case which, as I recall him saying, gives the profile of this loading an almost identical profile as the Gold Dot rounds, so feeding isnt a problem, even with this wide-shouldered bullet.

I've had great feeding results in both my Barsto in my G20L and the KKM barrel in my old G29. YMMV.

[Redondo]

I just ordered some 200gr XTP and 215gr WFNGC for my 10s. I'll probably carry the 215 for my woods adventures. It sounds like a great defensive bear round. I'm not out looking for them, but just in case..... Thanks again for the opinions. Mike was kind enough to e-mail me his opinion too!

[ppro]

NickE 10mm

I have used both the 200gr. and the 215gr. in my Storm Lake barrels (three different barrels) and zero feeding problems.

The 215gr. is via the Double Tap factory loading and mine are the 200gr. (same bullet as the Double Tap 200gr.) that I have loaded my self....and they are seated deeper, but with the wide flat nose, the extra seating depth is not a issue, as they (the bullets) are shorter due to the wide nose, but yes, they are loaded slightly shorter overall.

If they will feed in the Storm Lake barrels (which IS a match dimension chamber and throat....I would think they would feed in most any other barrel ( KKM etc.) but as always, you need to test them in your configuration. This of course assumes everything else is equal. I use the 22# recoil springs for example.

The Double Tap Bear Tooth designs feed very well for me, but DO test them in your setup.

Paul