Any rust issues with Saiga?

[Vigilant]

I have about decided to buy a Saiga to permanently reside in the trunk. Would I be fairly safe in regards to rust, or should I stick with something in stainless?

Thanks in advance,

Vig

[TexAg]

No issues with mine in the last year plus I have had it. Just wipe it down with an oil cloth every couple of months and I would imagine it would keep the rust at bay. This is a Kalshnikov we are talking about after all.

[expeditionx]

There arn't any commercially available AK's in stainless steel.
If you mean something else like a mini-30 in stainless, its hard to find decent reliable magaines (non-factory). Last time I checked, Ruger made a 5 round standard magazine. The Saiga comes with a 10 rounder if your talking about 7.62x39. However, the Saiga can be legally converted to use regular AK magazines if you swap out the factory trigger group and handguard.

If you want rust protection, you have options.
1. Have the Saiga chrome or nickle plated. Everything minus the bore and chamber.
2. Have the Saiga professionally coated with some kind of anti-corrosion coating.
3. Cheapest- Spray paint all exposed outer surfaces - Spray moly heavy on the internal surfaces- Be sure to coat inside the gas tube light enough. Under $20 total

[Vigilant]

Thanks for the replies. Actually, my other option is a stainless Mini 14, either a new production civilian model with synthetic stock and upgraded sights, or a LE version. I heard a rumor about factory 20-round mags for a decent price, and that's the way I would go. No aftermarket junk.

For the price, it's hard to beat a Saiga, and I have a little more confidence in 7.62X39 vs. .223. Not a lot, but a little.

I would probably lean more towards altering AK mags to fit an unaltered Saiga, for liability reasons if I ever have to use it. It would seem that altered mags would be easier to defend in court than an altered rifle, even if it was professionally done. But, I could be wrong. Any thoughts?

Vig

[expeditionx]

If you live in the USA, a factory stock Saiga rifle like all other imported rifles since 1998 can not be used with magazines with a capacity higher than 10 rounds. This has nothing to do with the assult weapon ban which sunsetted in 2004. Its based on the 1968 Gun Control Act linked to 1990 legislation called 922 r and also linked to a 1998 Attorney General (Janet Reno) collaboration with Bill Clinton which created a study based on the old sporting purpose clause in the Gun Control Act. Without getting into a long winded debate which always ends at the same conclusion, placing any kind of magazine with a capacity greater than 10 rounds in a stock Saiga rifle is a 922 r felony. Heres some reading on this topic
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186729&highlight=foreign+rifle+legal

If you get the Saiga, I suggest do the $100 parts swap to stay legal if you intend on using regular AK mags.
A U.S.A. made G2 trigger group from Tapco and a U.S.A. made hand guard also available at Tapco.

By the way, the modified AK magazines available through some Gunbroker dealers to fit the Saiga are disregarding the legality issue.

[Vigilant]

Now THAT, my friend, is good information, and I'm grateful. I wonder if that law applies to the 30-round factory Saiga mags that someone is scalping on Gunbroker for about $100 each?

I have been a bit hesitant in the past to do any mods to a gun for liability reasons if (Heaven forbid) I ever have to shoot someone. I am somewhat more comfortable though, with having a competent gunsmith install a NEW trigger group and any other needed parts.

The folks at Saiga Central told me they know someone who is supposed to be the best in the country for this mod. I'll look into it.

Thanks again.

Vig

[TexAg]

Yes, I believe even rare 30-round Saiga mags are illegal to use unless you have the US parts count.
Check out www.tromix.com also the forum at www.saiga12.com
Tony Rumore does the conversions at tromix, looks good, and he answers e-mail too. I've heard nothing but good things about his guns and he is a member of Glocktalk.

Honestly though, for a truck/trunk gun a $280 Saiga with a couple ten round mags isn't bad.

[expeditionx]

Originally posted by Vigilant
Now THAT, my friend, is good information, and I'm grateful. I wonder if that law applies to the 30-round factory Saiga mags that someone is scalping on Gunbroker for about $100 each?

I have been a bit hesitant in the past to do any mods to a gun for liability reasons if (Heaven forbid) I ever have to shoot someone. I am somewhat more comfortable though, with having a competent gunsmith install a NEW trigger group and any other needed parts.

The folks at Saiga Central told me they know someone who is supposed to be the best in the country for this mod. I'll look into it.

Thanks again.

Vig

Your welcome.

[Vigilant]

Any idea as to what it would cost to have a 7.62X39 Saiga professionally altered to legally accept 30-round AK mags?

[expeditionx]

This guy is the best saiga modifier I know of. Tony Rumore

http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm

Basic 308 Title 1 conversion is $350
----------------------------------------------

Also, you can order from http://www.fbmginc.com
IZ-132, 7.62X39 rifle
Plastic stock, 16' bbl, scope mount, traditional safety, 10rd detachable magazine, and bolt stop are standard features. $290
and he offers a Tromix conversion (Tromix Conversion Gen 2 - 7.62)
for $325 extra = $615 total for a converted Saiga 16 inch barrel

I own a 16inch Saiga in 7.62x39 I test fired 6 10 round factory magazines when I bought it in Nov 2004. I havnt shot it since.

I was hoping Tapco was going to finally make 30 round American made magazines for it. The reason being the Saiga 7.62x39 in stock configuration has 14 foreign parts to legally contend with.
You have to reduce the 14 parts to 10 to be able to use higher capacity magazines and other ATF non-sporting features.

A Tapco made magazine would be 3 compliance parts. They also offer a front hand guard for the Saiga rifles ( 1 more compliance part ).
1 front hand guard plus a Tapco magazine and your at 10 total contendable foreign parts. For about $100 you could be legal, have a galil style handguard, and have 2 or 3 tapco 30 round American made (Saiga interfacable) magazines. Tapco dropped the ball on that deal. They only carry the Saiga/Galil handguard.
http://www.tapco.com/product_information.asp?number=STK070303&back=yes&dept=93&last=

Other than that, the Saiga in 7.62x39 is one of the more accurate 7.62x39 auto loading rifles brand new out of the box that is available in America. My Vepr 7.62x39 is a bit more accurate than the Saiga. The Saiga cost less than half of what the Vepr cost.
The mini-14 or mini-30 dont have the out of the box accuracy the Saiga does. If you have tools and your mechanically inclined, you can convert your own Saiga 7.62x39.
http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/
If you dont want the pistol grip, just swap out the trigger group,
swap out the hand guard for an American made one, and add a bullet guide between the barrel and the magazine. With a dremel and a few tools, it might take you 1 hour and cost you under $100.
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showforum=5
Plenty of conversion experts at Saiga-12.com to ask technical questions.

Im considering selling my Saiga 7.62x39 to fund another Saiga 12 shotgun.
I may start looking for a face to face sale near Charlotte, NC.

[graveman]

Dave at Elitefirearms.net does wonderful work also. It is a little pricey for a "trunk gun" though :frown: . With what you end up putting into it to make it 922r compliant, you could just pick up a WASR, with a couple cases of ammo and a few mags.
Rust issues ...... keep a light coat of oil on exposed metal, squirt some on the fire control group. Don't oil inside the gas tube or on the piston, for there will be as much smoke as a black powder musket after squeezing the first round :shocked: .

[TexAg]

It would be very cool if Tapco would do a package deal and sell the American made hanguard and American made Saiga compatable mags together. But expeditionx, you do know ProMag offers American made AK mags right?
I contimplated and am still contimplating it, adding the bullet guide and using the Pro Mag American made mags and adding the US made front handguard.

[expeditionx]

ProMag AK mags have a bad reputation. There is no steel lining in them. Ive heard bad reports of people using them.

[graveman]

Do not waste your money on ProMag contraptions, they are worthless crap. It is also a BAD idea IMHO to get compliance parts in the magazine, since use of any other mag but the crapalicious ones will put you in violation of 922 R. I don't think BATFE has ever busted anyone for non-compliance, but why risk it?