Best SHTF .22 LR ammo ? [Archive]

aaronrkelly

05-04-2006, 04:47

Originally posted by URGueyes
We usually talk about the Big Boys when SHTF subject comes up but a good .22 riffle can be a very useful and effective tool in this situation.

Can you guys give me some recommendations for a good self defense .22 ammo ?

Thanks !!!!!!!!

I have .22mag self defense piece, a little NAA revolver.

Stick to something FMJ....high velocity and as heavy as you can get. Thats my suggestion, a little prayer if you ever need such a gun couldnt hurt either.

vafish

05-04-2006, 07:48

We love to argue over what handgun round is the best for self defense.

But arguing over which .22LR round is best for self defense is like 2 Marine recruits arguing over who has more rank.

Technically one of them might be a little better than the other, but when you actually use them you won't know the difference.

I have a whole bunch of Federal bulk .22LR I bought from CMP, my daughter has become more accurate than the ammo so now it's my plinking ammo. It will do fine if the SHTF.

elgoatropo

05-04-2006, 08:50

Your name, URGueyes, is that like the made-up pronoun Your-guys'es? When I was in the South, I learned to respect the use of Y'all's. We yankees have no equivalent of this word except the ignorant sounding "Yer-guizes".

45colt

05-04-2006, 16:54

CCI Mini-Mags work very well.

45Colt

ColoradoPacker

05-04-2006, 19:56

Originally posted by 45colt
CCI Mini-Mags work very well.

45Colt

+1

They always feed in everything, I use the 40gr solid version in the pistols, and the 36gr hp version in the rifles (or rem 36gr golden bulk solid in the rifles but the rem don't feed in the the P22)

hotpig

05-04-2006, 20:54

Originally posted by 45colt
CCI Mini-Mags work very well.

45Colt

+1

Sikhed

05-05-2006, 01:32

If attacked by a horde of squeekers (rodent chipmunk-looking things around here) I'd use CCI velocitors. 36gr gold-dot. Very accurate.

Oh wait... I already do use them on squeekers.

ColoradoPacker

05-05-2006, 09:14

Anyone know velovity of

minimag 40gr
minimag 36gr
minimag +V
velocitor 36gr

Sikhed

05-05-2006, 12:29

Sadly, no.
I shot my chorongraph last year:freak: :burn:

grecco

05-05-2006, 12:44

i always like yellow jackets.

ColoradoPacker

05-05-2006, 16:38

To me a SHTF round must have a history of feeding in anything, so I narrow it to minimags.

squirreld

05-05-2006, 16:42

Originally posted by ColoradoPacker
Anyone know velovity of

minimag 40gr
minimag 36gr
minimag +V
velocitor 36gr

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/

they have all there velocities on the website.

bac1023

05-05-2006, 18:43

Another vote for CCI.

Glockdude1

05-05-2006, 18:48

.22 Remington Yellow Jackets.

:cool:

epsylum

05-05-2006, 19:05

I was at gander mountain and saw a box of Federal "Hi-Shok" .22lr. I couldn't help but laugh out loud. Hi-Shok .22lr? That's just funny.

tyesai

05-06-2006, 12:34

Originally posted by epsylum
"Hi-Shok" .22lr. I couldn't help but laugh out loud. Hi-Shok .22lr? That's just funny.

May I shoot you with one and see if it is still funny? :supergrin:

g3ninfinite

05-06-2006, 13:36

Originally posted by tyesai
May I shoot you with one and see if it is still funny? :supergrin:

LOL

Glockdude1

05-06-2006, 15:33

Originally posted by tyesai
May I shoot you with one and see if it is still funny? :supergrin:

What if he DIES laughing???? ;)

:cool:

epsylum

05-07-2006, 18:34

Originally posted by tyesai
May I shoot you with one and see if it is still funny? :supergrin:

Only if I can shoot you with one in .45 so we can trade notes ;)

Glock19Fan

05-07-2006, 22:18

Im suprised to be the first to say Velocitors weigh 40 grains, not 36.

But if SHTF, the Velocitors, although expensive, would be my first choice.

Glockdude1

05-08-2006, 14:31

epsylum and tyesai, I want you 2 to stand back to back, walk 20 paces, turn and fire.

Let us know how it turns out....... ;)

:popcorn:

noway

05-08-2006, 14:50

A SHTF sitauation and you are wondering about your lossey 22LR? Give me a break.

A SHTF would need something like a 223 centerfire rifle or a 30caliber. Agreed arguring over what's the best 22Long/short/magnum for a SHTF is not very smart.

vafish

05-08-2006, 15:01

Depends upon how you define SHTF.

If you are talking about a Katrina aftermath, mass riots, looting, raping and pillaging going on I agree the .22 LR is pretty low on my list. (although even in that situation I would have my kids backing me up with their .22 LR rifles.)

But if you are talking about an End Of The World As We Know It type situation where you have bugged out to your retreat in the country and are now living off the land the .22 LR has a lot of advantages.

First is that it is cheap and small, therefore very easy to stockpile. As are the firearms that use it.

Second it has a ton of uses for hunting most anything. Even for self defense, while not optimal with limited medical facilities people will avoid getting shot (like the old west a gut shot with a .22 will spell a long and painful death)

Third it is a very common round, lots of other folks will have .22 LR firearms. If you have a ton of ammo stockpiled it would be very usefull for bartering.

tyesai

05-08-2006, 15:21

Originally posted by Glockdude1
epsylum and tyesai, I want you 2 to stand back to back, walk 20 paces, turn and fire.

Let us know how it turns out....... ;)

:popcorn:

1,,,,2,,,,,3,,,,,20 BANG

I win, he's dead, shot to the back of the head with a hyper shock deuce deuce.:supergrin:

On a serious note, I have always thought that a .22 is probably the second best choice for a SHTF caliber, in a general sort of way. I don't want to turn this into a scenario .22 bashing but if you live in the sticks you could put lots of meat on a table with one. The amount of ammo you can carry compared to most anything else is unreal.

9mm +p+

05-08-2006, 16:11

I agree the 22 LR is more important than most folks think post SHTF. A well placed 22 LR will kill you just as dead as the "mighty 5.56", without all of the noise. CQB no I'd go .30 all the way, but for pure survival a 22 rifle and a heavy caliber pistol you'd be fine. Everyoe seems to think survival is all firefights with superior numbers, the essence of surviving is to survive no? Getting into shootouts all of the time will get you killed quick, it's called being low key and out of sight! I'm partial to CCI's version of the Quikshok version of the 22 LR, always functioned fine in anything I've tried and plenty accurate to boot.

URGueyes

05-08-2006, 16:48

Originally posted by noway
A SHTF sitauation and you are wondering about your lossey 22LR? Give me a break.

A SHTF would need something like a 223 centerfire rifle or a 30caliber. Agreed arguring over what's the best 22Long/short/magnum for a SHTF is not very smart.

Are you serious ??? Not very smart ??? While you alert the Zombies and the AUTHORITIES as to your whereabouts with that noisy .223, a low recoil , low noise 22LR and some good marksmanship will keep you Anominously alive and well. Heck, in an ultimate survival situation you can even do some fowl hunting or squirrel hunting to put a little meat on the table.

Zombies are like picaries ... drop the leaders and the pack dissipates
to an unorganized state of cluelessness.

Don't let Hollywood influence your choices

DeadMansLife

05-08-2006, 16:48

Originally posted by 9mm +p+
I agree the 22 LR is more important than most folks think post SHTF. A well placed 22 LR will kill you just as dead as the "mighty 5.56", without all of the noise. CQB no I'd go .30 all the way, but for pure survival a 22 rifle and a heavy caliber pistol you'd be fine. Everyoe seems to think survival is all firefights with superior numbers, the essence of surviving is to survive no? Getting into shootouts all of the time will get you killed quick, it's called being low key and out of sight! I'm partial to CCI's version of the Quikshok version of the 22 LR, always functioned fine in anything I've tried and plenty accurate to boot.

This post made more sense than any other on this subject.

epsylum

05-08-2006, 17:28

Originally posted by tyesai
1,,,,2,,,,,3,,,,,20 BANG

I win, he's dead, shot to the back of the head with a hyper shock deuce deuce.:supergrin:

If it's anything like my dad's college buddy who tried to off himself with one, no I am not. In fact I can walk to someone's dorm room and ask to be taken to the hospital like he did (with a .22 bullet still inside his head).

Can a .22 kill? Yes, but it is much more of a gamble than a larger caliber.

As for taking small game, sure it has it's purposes, but I just find the term "hi-shok" funny for a round that was developed out of gallery gun.

tyesai

05-08-2006, 17:53

I was just being silly.

Hi shok out of a .22 is a little silly, but don't tell the bunny. Most of us know it isn't a first choice defensive human on human round. But a knife can kill you dead too, a really dull one.

I am not trying to say the .22 is a good defensive caliber. I am just saying it is a good all around SHTF caliber. Provided you have something to augment it.

epsylum

05-08-2006, 18:24

Originally posted by tyesai
I was just being silly.

Hi shok out of a .22 is a little silly, but don't tell the bunny. Most of us know it isn't a first choice defensive human on human round. But a knife can kill you dead too, a really dull one.

I am not trying to say the .22 is a good defensive caliber. I am just saying it is a good all around SHTF caliber. Provided you have something to augment it.

I agree that it has many uses for a SHTF bugout type survival gun and never argued against this point.

It wasn't the fact that it was a .22 hollow point, but the term "hi-shok" struck me as funny when dealing with this caliber. When I think "hi-shok", I think of something at least .308. I even find "hi-shok" handgun rounds kinda silly, but this was sort of on the extreme end of what can be called "hi-shok" (okay a "hi-shok" .177 pellet is even worse).

W30

05-10-2006, 10:28

CCI Stinger

SilentGLOCK

05-10-2006, 11:01

If you know what you're doing, the .22LR can be a very effective weapon. ESPECIALLY the suppressed .22 Ruger MKII or 10/22. After you whack the bad guy, you take his gun..........

W30

05-10-2006, 11:14

Scramble da brain bouncin around n stuff. ;)

SawgrassRaven

05-10-2006, 11:24

Originally posted by epsylum
If it's anything like my dad's college buddy who tried to off himself with one, no I am not. In fact I can walk to someone's dorm room and ask to be taken to the hospital like he did (with a .22 bullet still inside his head).

Can a .22 kill? Yes, but it is much more of a gamble than a larger caliber.

As for taking small game, sure it has it's purposes, but I just find the term "hi-shok" funny for a round that was developed out of gallery gun.

You do realize there are numerous cases of self-inflicted shotgun wounds to the head that did NOT result in death?

:upeyes:

J

tooly

05-10-2006, 13:05

I knew a kid back in the day , they called him "big red" a big kid about 6'1 280lbs or more . He was sitting in car one night, some guys drove up and killed him with a .22 , my friends said he did not even bleed just alittle drop of blood on his side .

So yeah alittle .22 can put you to sleep !!!!

ecmills

05-10-2006, 14:00

Originally posted by Sikhed
Sadly, no.
I shot my chorongraph last year:freak: :burn:

:laughabove: :laughabove:

SIG! :supergrin:

noway

05-10-2006, 14:19

{I agree the 22 LR is more important than most folks think post SHTF. A well placed 22 LR will kill you just as dead as the "mighty 5.56", without all of the noise. CQB no I'd go .30 all the way, but for pure survival a 22 rifle and a heavy caliber pistol you'd be fine. Everyoe seems to think survival is all firefights with superior numbers, the essence of surviving is to survive no? Getting into shootouts all of the time will get you killed quick, it's called being low key and out of sight! I'm partial to CCI's version of the Quikshok version of the 22 LR, always functioned fine in anything I've tried and plenty accurate to boot.}

I hope you don't believe that. if that was really true our GIs would be running around with 80 pus rds 22LR assault rifle and not a 30rd M4/16.

Comparing a lead projectile a smaller higher velocitiy jacket projectile that has bout 2-3x the avg 22LR speed is not a good comparison.

URGueyes

05-10-2006, 15:41

I hope you don't believe that. if that was really true our GIs would be running around with 80 pus rds 22LR assault rifle and not a 30rd M4/16.

Comparing a lead projectile a smaller higher velocitiy jacket projectile that has bout 2-3x the avg 22LR speed is not a good comparison. [/B][/QUOTE]

Nobody is saying the .22 is the "be all - do all" round. We just saying in a survival situation a .22 rifle can me effective, useful and ultimately keep you alive.

BTW - I wouldn't use what our Government gives our GIs as a barometer in these matters.

9mm +p+

05-10-2006, 16:22

Originally posted by noway
{I agree the 22 LR is more important than most folks think post SHTF. A well placed 22 LR will kill you just as dead as the "mighty 5.56", without all of the noise. CQB no I'd go .30 all the way, but for pure survival a 22 rifle and a heavy caliber pistol you'd be fine. Everyoe seems to think survival is all firefights with superior numbers, the essence of surviving is to survive no? Getting into shootouts all of the time will get you killed quick, it's called being low key and out of sight! I'm partial to CCI's version of the Quikshok version of the 22 LR, always functioned fine in anything I've tried and plenty accurate to boot.}

I hope you don't believe that. if that was really true our GIs would be running around with 80 pus rds 22LR assault rifle and not a 30rd M4/16.

Comparing a lead projectile a smaller higher velocitiy jacket projectile that has bout 2-3x the avg 22LR speed is not a good comparison. I'm afraid I do believe it, it's true. You're comparing a military combat situation with a survival situation, they are very different. My point is that you don't need an AR or AK to survive, actually you'd be better off without one! Surviving is just that, not shootout at the OK corral why is that so difficult for folks to understand? A well placed 22 LR WILL kill you just as dead as anything else, that was the premise of the original post was it not?

noway

05-11-2006, 09:37

{A well placed 22 LR WILL kill you just as dead as anything else, that was the premise of the original post was it not?}

if that's what you belive or want to believe ;)

People advocating the 22LR as their ultimate survial caliber and all of the so-call positive for it. I would like to see you stand up and put your money where your mouth is. I dare any of you to hunt all of your games from squirrel-turkey-duck-quail-elk with just a 22LR. where legal during one hunting season, btw fla and numerous other states don't allow hunting with a 22LR ( big game ) and their's logic behind that ;)

So get your 22lR load it up with your favorite lead or plated-lead projectile that weighs a whopping 30-40grains and go try to shoot that deer at 100years facing headon, or try to shoot down a flushing quail or a fly-over duck, or better yet go to the plains and tackle a lope at 200yrs w/20mph crosswinds or if you have a real set of balls, travel to the VA-NJ area and try to stumble into a black bear sow with cubs and whip out your SHTF survial 22LR and get back to us with the outcome ;)

remember it will kill anything as dead as anything else or that's what the internet folks say ;)

Now a better survial gun is a 2 bbl shotgun or pump-gun. I'll take that over a 22LR for survial any day of the week and with it's limited range.
:alien:

URGueyes

05-11-2006, 12:10

Originally posted by noway
= People advocating the 22LR as their ultimate survial caliber and all of the so-call positive for it. =

Tell where anyone says that a 22 is the ULTIMATE SURVIVAL CALIBER ?
Who has made this claim ?

= that's what the internet folks say ;)

Now a better survial gun is a 2 bbl shotgun or pump-gun. I'll take that over a 22LR for survial any day of the week and with it's limited range.
:alien: [/B]

Maybe you picture the SHTF situation to be like the first Rambo movie or some other Hollywood contrivance... tucked away in a cave and fighting bears and downing ducks with a 308. I don't think it will be like that... didn't you learn anything from Katrina ? SHTF could mean a 22LR is the first and only weapon you get your hands on. And if it is, I bet I could back a pack of Zombies off with it. Aren't you a good enough shot to do the same?

Why does a discourse regarding the best 22LR caliber seem to irk you ? Obviously , you're better prepared than we are, so step back , allow us to talk and slide contently into our own miseable deaths. In the mean time, when and if the SHTF you can go play Dirty Harry and have the biggest baddest caliber on the block and go " BANG BANG !!!"
When the authorities track down where that sound is coming from and confiscate your survival piece at least you can brag that it wasn't a lowly .22LR.

9mm +p+

05-11-2006, 13:34

Originally posted by noway
{A well placed 22 LR WILL kill you just as dead as anything else, that was the premise of the original post was it not?}

if that's what you belive or want to believe ;)

People advocating the 22LR as their ultimate survial caliber and all of the so-call positive for it. I would like to see you stand up and put your money where your mouth is. I dare any of you to hunt all of your games from squirrel-turkey-duck-quail-elk with just a 22LR. where legal during one hunting season, btw fla and numerous other states don't allow hunting with a 22LR ( big game ) and their's logic behind that ;)

So get your 22lR load it up with your favorite lead or plated-lead projectile that weighs a whopping 30-40grains and go try to shoot that deer at 100years facing headon, or try to shoot down a flushing quail or a fly-over duck, or better yet go to the plains and tackle a lope at 200yrs w/20mph crosswinds or if you have a real set of balls, travel to the VA-NJ area and try to stumble into a black bear sow with cubs and whip out your SHTF survial 22LR and get back to us with the outcome ;)

remember it will kill anything as dead as anything else or that's what the internet folks say ;)

Now a better survial gun is a 2 bbl shotgun or pump-gun. I'll take that over a 22LR for survial any day of the week and with it's limited range.
:alien: What exactly are you reading??:freak: I never said that any caliber was the"ultimate" anything, quit trying to pick a fight. I grew up in Va. thanks and I have been around blk bear with cubs and guess what I never got eaten, I was unarmed most of the time, hows that for "balls" there big guy?? I don't hunt but if I did I feel I COULD do it with a 22 LR because I have the patience and skills required to use a marginal caliber to do so. I don't need a 50 BMG to take down a 100lb whitetail, if you do so be it. I merely posted my opinion about survival use of the 22 LR, not combat use. Please explain to me how a shotgun has more range than a rimfire??:freak: :freak: Put my money where my mouth is? How about you, let somebody bust you with the weak little 22 LR and see how you feel afterwards? Now go have a drink and let this thread go!:beer:

epsylum

05-11-2006, 16:06

Originally posted by 9mm +p+
How about you, let somebody bust you with the weak little 22 LR and see how you feel afterwards?

I am not commenting on anything other than this part a this comes up in EVERY caliber thread and is very annoying.

I don't want to get shot with a BB gun, so what does that prove?

Yes, it will hurt like hell and could result in death, just like any other caliber. It still doesn't mean it is an effective man-stopper (as you are talking about shooting people by saying this) or else everyone would be carrying their buckmarks or MkIIs for their main sidearm.

For taking small game like rabbits and squirrels, yes they can do that just fine, so I see thier marit in a survival situation because in a real survival situation you will not be going after game much larger than that. But for a "do all" caliber (as in hunting and both 2 legged and 4 legged self-defense, etc), .22lr would not be my first choice.

For some reason some people get their undies in a knot when someone says that the .22lr has limitations and have to remark "let me shoot you with one". It's almost like saying something bad about a 1911 at times.

9mm +p+

05-11-2006, 17:40

Originally posted by epsylum
I am not commenting on anything other than this part a this comes up in EVERY caliber thread and is very annoying.

I don't want to get shot with a BB gun, so what does that prove?

Yes, it will hurt like hell and could result in death, just like any other caliber. It still doesn't mean it is an effective man-stopper (as you are talking about shooting people by saying this) or else everyone would be carrying their buckmarks or MkIIs for their main sidearm.

For taking small game like rabbits and squirrels, yes they can do that just fine, so I see thier marit in a survival situation because in a real survival situation you will not be going after game much larger than that. But for a "do all" caliber (as in hunting and both 2 legged and 4 legged self-defense, etc), .22lr would not be my first choice.

For some reason some people get their undies in a knot when someone says that the .22lr has limitations and have to remark "let me shoot you with one". It's almost like saying something bad about a 1911 at times. The 22 is not my favorite cartridge, I don't swear by it never said I did. Will you guys please just let this go, you're beating a dead horse. You believe what you like and I'll believe what I like, in the end it'll be each of our arses if we're wrong. I'm done with this thread!! OUT!:shocked:

mitchshrader

07-11-2007, 03:32

if power mattered, and Remington if price mattered.

casual plinking and light game, i use the bulk green pack remingtons.

i do not know what's best for long term storage.

the most important thing with a .22 is close.

i don't think a guy can get by with less than a .22, a real rifle, and a real shotgun, and a pistol caliber carbine can be very handy if not essential.

if i had to get by ON MY OWN IN THE WOODS.. without ammo re-supply, a .22 would cover a lot of needs. none of the others cover a wider spectrum of needs. all are inadequate to some tasks. physical condition and general health, strength, all changes the balance between weapons.. what you NEED to do and what you CAN do aren't identical..

what serves your purposes in your area? what are the laws? what are the customs?

a lot more affects choice of weapon than ft lbs and rate of fire. one i don't have that's VERY arguably optimal (some places) is the plain jane .30-30.

heck of a good gun for a bunch of jobs. not what i want for squirrels.

something to point out.. 250 shotgun slugs and 3000 .22 shells aren't much different in weight.. and 2c a round and limited longevity or NOT.. every time you make a .22 do the job, you didn't use a centerfire round. and made less noise. if i had to walk 200 miles cross-country in a month, i'd be carrying a .22 and a heavy handgun. and cussing both of em.

James Markov

07-11-2007, 06:04

Lets take a real SHTF situation-the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. Were .22's used? I really don't know-can anybody that was THERE tell us what happened with guns/shootouts/warding off looters?
Here's a story from my now deceased grandmother that made me think. In 1985? or so a tornado struck Newton Falls, Ohio and caused devestation. The Ohio National Guard patrolled the town and helped restore order. Areas that were on the incoming path of the twister that were out side of town were also hit. My grandmother's property was tree strewn and inaccessable. She said there were three unknown local rifraff digging thru the contents of her wrecked barn. She, being around 5 foot 2 and 100 lbs , was scared but yelled at them from about 100 yards to get out of there. One of the slimeballs started moving toward here, so she had a .22 semi auto pistol- a long barreled possibly Colt Woodsman. She fired 3 shots in the air, and the scum fled. Later, I asked her "Why 3 shots?" and she said because the gun jammed on the fourth round. It was a poorly maintained gun, which was why it jammed. The next gun show I bought 2 stainless steel Rossi 38 special revolvers-one for my mom, and the other for my grandmother to use . The 3 inch barreled revolvers were(and are) easier to hit with, simple, and more effective than a 22 auto.
The .22 can be used effectively, just know its limitations. The bulk pack ammo is ok stuff, and for the most part reliable. CCI Minimags are nice rounds, and there is nice quality there. JM

cookekdjr

07-11-2007, 08:11

One branch of the military (Air Force, maybe?) has a group of search and rescue soldiers that only carry semi-auto pistols in 22lr. Their mission is to locate and rescue downed pilots. They carry .22 pistols b/c they are very accurate, very quiet, and can kill almost anything they will encounter (be it for self defense or harvesting game; they have taken deer with their pistols before). Additionally, since weight is a huge issue, they can carry 150-200 rounds of ammo at very little weight.
Their choice of ammo: CCI Minimags, b/c they have found them to be the most reliable.
I can't recall where I found the article, but it is available online.
-David

James Markov

07-12-2007, 07:39

I will try and search for the article about .22 pistols and the Air Force.

Clayton Hufford

07-12-2007, 08:08

In my limited experience, the main thing to consider with any rimfire ammunition, especially .22LR, is reliability. I've fired hundreds of thousands of .22 rounds of all types through lots of different rifles and pistols, and in my opinion price has nothing to do with reliability or accuracy. Every .22 cal weapon you have will work better and be more accurate with a different brand. As far as terminal performance in small game, the CCI Stinger is king in my experience.

Good luck,

Clay

HiredGun77

07-12-2007, 08:47

If your gun will shoot them reliably the Stinger is the easy choice. It has no peer. On the farm we used them to dispatch everything from rabbits and the faster chickens for the table. They also dump cows and hogs for slaughter. Have even recovered a few from deer heads and lungs from more than a few killed in one shot. The brain shot is most effective for instant kills. It works best under 50 yards for big game. Loaded in my 10/22 and Mark II target pistol I would feel protected from the average threats.

Be carefull on hogs. They will not always make the brain cavity and if left long enough they will regain their feet. We always cut their throats and string them right up so it usually is not an issue. You just don't want to be dilly dallying around or you will have to shoot them again and they don't hold still once they know what your up to.

cookekdjr

07-12-2007, 14:38

Originally posted by Clayton Hufford
In my limited experience, the main thing to consider with any rimfire ammunition, especially .22LR, is reliability. I've fired hundreds of thousands of .22 rounds of all types through lots of different rifles and pistols, and in my opinion price has nothing to do with reliability or accuracy. Every .22 cal weapon you have will work better and be more accurate with a different brand. As far as terminal performance in small game, the CCI Stinger is king in my experience.

Good luck,

Clay

Clay,

The Air Force officer quoted re: their selection of CCI Minimags said reliability was the key factor in their selection.
-David