Of Rifles and the philippines [Archive] - Glock Talk

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boytigas
05-06-2006, 09:48
Hi all. I just want to ask the experts here some questions.
When i was searching google, I realized that baby armalite was a generally Filipino term, as most sites that popped were Filipino related. I wanted to researh and grab some info on it, so what is the formal name for the baby armalite? Sali na rin natin, what is an "infant" rifle exactly?:D

I hear elisco, colt and bushmaster the brands in which those are widely circulated here in the country, and I hear the bushmaster is more expensive by a considerable margin... what are their main differences?

I know they're a lot of questions, and imma be grateful to anyone who can calrify things up for me:) :alien: Thanks!

Evan N. Payawal
05-06-2006, 19:18
Hmm, my fearless guess is (I don't have any sources on this) "baby Armalite" was the nickname given to the US Rifle M16A1 carbine version with a 14.5" barrel. This term has been used for decades in the Philippines. Back in the 70's, perhaps the majority of M16A1's in the Philippines were the locally license-produced ELISCO rifles and Colt rifles that were brought in. These I guess were the classic "babies." Nowadays, with the dizzying array of AR variations (that get shorter and shorter), we Filipinos even refer to an "infant" and a "fetus" size AR.
Does anybody know how long infant and fetus barrels are?

paltiq
05-06-2006, 19:35
ARMALITE= 20" m16a1 rifles na sumikat sa Phils. nung 60s Armalite kasi ang name ng Co. na nagintroduce nito at si Eugene Stoner ang inventor.

BABY ARMALITE= 14.5" skinny barrel version. mas maliit kayat tinawag ng pinoy na Baby Armalite:cool: wala sa history yan ng M16 yang name na yan:clown:

INFANT= maybe a 10.25" barrel version. mas maliit pa sa Baby kayat tinawag ng pinoy na Infant... invented by Pinoy machinist na mayroong lathe machines sa bahay:clown: malamang na chopped lamang ito na 20" barrels

FETUS=maybe a 7.5" barrel version. mas maliit pa sa INFANT kayat tinawag ng pinoy na FETUS... invented by Pinoy machinist na mayroong lathe machines sa bahay:clown: malamang na chopped lamang ito na 20" barrels

........please let me see a FETUS & INFANT na reliable ang cycling all the time dahil 11.5" lang sana talaga ang nasa catalog ng colt & bushmaster(COMMANDO)...bukod pa dito ang diminished performance ng .223 ammo @ this length.
:)

isuzu
05-07-2006, 13:25
Originally posted by paltiq
BABY ARMALITE= 14.5" skinny barrel version. mas maliit kayat tinawag ng pinoy na Baby Armalite:cool: wala sa history yan ng M16 yang name na yan:clown:

FETUS=maybe a 7.5" barrel version. mas maliit pa sa INFANT kayat tinawag ng pinoy na FETUS... invented by Pinoy machinist na mayroong lathe machines sa bahay:clown: malamang na chopped lamang ito na 20" barrels

........please let me see a FETUS & INFANT na reliable ang cycling all the time dahil 11.5" lang sana talaga ang nasa catalog ng colt & bushmaster(COMMANDO)...bukod pa dito ang diminished performance ng .223 ammo @ this length.
:)

Most of the "baby armalites that I have seen issued with the AFP came with 16" barrels. According to them, they like it more than the Colts with 14.5" barrels that came from the US. According to them the muzzle blast is lesser on a 16" carbine than the 14.5" carbine. Also, the 16" carbine has a slight edge in accuracy.

Yup, the infant is a 10.5" while the fetus is 9" or lower that is practically useless. It's like lighting a "bawang" in front of you when you fire it. You also get lost in a cloud of dust when firing prone. Lots of people have these, but they put a long flashider which defeats the purpose of having a short weapon. We should remember that the 5.56mm ammo is dependent on barrel length to provide the most damage to bone and tissue (temporary stretch cavity, permanent cavity and bullet fragmentation). Velocity in the M193 bullet makes it tumble and fragment when it hits bone and/or tissue. The result is a bigger wound channel. The lack of velocity in that bullet makes it useless. Better off using a 9mm or a .45 pistol than the really short M16 machine pistols.

paltiq
05-07-2006, 17:07
pare correct me if im wrong pero yung Elisco Baby armalite na issued to the AFP is a 14.5" + bird cage flashhider = 16"

very ironic to say na nowadays ay mukhang nauuso na ang skinny barrels sa US dahil lightweight daw:shocked: compared sa heavy profile ng 14.5" m4 cut barrels:clown: ........ 1970s pa lang meron na pala tayong m4 style rifle with lightprofile barrel;) .......yan ang ating Baby Armalite:supergrin: .......dapat ay mailagay sa history ito!!!!!!!! kasama si Armando Lite:shocked:

paltik45
05-07-2006, 23:25
Originally posted by paltiq


very ironic to say na nowadays ay mukhang nauuso na ang skinny barrels sa US dahil lightweight daw:shocked: compared sa heavy profile ng 14.5" m4 cut barrels:clown: ........ 1970s pa lang meron na pala tayong m4 style rifle with lightprofile barrel;) .......yan ang ating Baby Armalite

Sir, AFAIK it was conceptualise during the vietnam war for the Navy SEAL and they call it the Commando configuration. They even deployed the commando rifle without the 5'flash hider. The muzzle blast was really great that it almost stun the opperator. I've seen this episode in the History Channel a year ago. The skinny barrel is ok for 14' or longer. But for shorter barrels it will cause some "Barrel Whip" which wiil increase its wear and tear. Thanks.:)

BTW, NOVESKE had developed a flash supressor for short barreled (10" or shorter)M-16/AR-15. As the discription said, its technology was barrowed from the shorter AK-47(Krinkov). It greatly lessened the blast and improves function/cycling of the rifle. They call it Noveske KX3 flash hider. You can check it at www.globaltactical.com I've been in their shop in Kansas city and lots of nice toys.:supergrin:

elcapitan
05-08-2006, 04:15
noveske flash suppressor creates back pressure kaya babagal ng konti cyclic rate kaya mas masarap iputok

3kings
05-08-2006, 23:17
guys
is this a sample of infant? http://www.m16clinic.com/viper/

boytigas
05-08-2006, 23:46
thanks for all the replies peepz! helped a lot:alien:

isuzu
05-08-2006, 23:47
Originally posted by paltiq
pare correct me if im wrong pero yung Elisco Baby armalite na issued to the AFP is a 14.5" + bird cage flashhider = 16"

very ironic to say na nowadays ay mukhang nauuso na ang skinny barrels sa US dahil lightweight daw:shocked: compared sa heavy profile ng 14.5" m4 cut barrels:clown: ........ 1970s pa lang meron na pala tayong m4 style rifle with lightprofile barrel;) .......yan ang ating Baby Armalite:supergrin: .......dapat ay mailagay sa history ito!!!!!!!! kasama si Armando Lite:shocked:

When my gunsmith cuts a 20" by the gas port, the barrel length is 14.5" at the gas port. The Colt carbines with chromeline barrels have a 14.5" while the non-chrome Elisco has a slightly longer barrel. There are, however, Colts that came out with 16" barrels, although very rare (in the Philippines).

My friend who is in the Army says that the original (old) carbines are already worn out. What they now get are new Colts and Bushmasters that have an M4 profile. They don't like the models with three round bursts; the cam easily breaks. My gunsmith took a lot of three round mechanisms from their M16A2s.

As to the popularity of the skinny barrels: yes, it's picking up with AR users in the US after the end of the assault weapons ban. Lots of people have switched to lighter barrels and there's lots of used/slightly used heavy barrels for sale. I think I saw a thread at www.ar15.com that said prices of heavy barrels have gone down.

napinap
05-09-2006, 01:13
i recently talked to a bodyguard of a local politician who was sporting this "fetus" armalite and he strongly advised having one. jam o matic at nakakabibingi pa and besides it cost them 20k to convert one...