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pogi
05-12-2006, 17:58
Place: BuCor Range
Date/Event: Thursday, May 11/06-Lag-Psg Practice
Pax: Lito P., Jason, Teody Salas, etc.
Scenario:
After a run in one stage, definitely I had to "unload...then show clear". Ayaw mag-extract nor mag-eject ng shell. HINDI MA-COCK! IT IS AF IF NAKA-TRIGGER LOCK...BUT NOT. I had to fire the last ammo.
It happened to about 3 or 5 ammos. THEY, repeat THEY, ALL passed through the case gauge. Teflon coated.
Jason, Lito, Teody and others TRIED in their respective guns. Same thing.

QUESTION:
Fellow BoGs, WHAT DO YOU THINK MAY HAVE HAPPENED?

horge
05-12-2006, 18:37
What platform? 1911-pattern?

pogi
05-12-2006, 20:01
Horge, Yes sir.

pogi
05-12-2006, 20:07
Addendum to previous thread:

Crimping is A-okay.
Shell is once-fired kaya okay pa ang rim.

toxic
05-12-2006, 22:20
Originally posted by pogi
Place: BuCor Range
Date/Event: Thursday, May 11/06-Lag-Psg Practice
Pax: Lito P., Jason, Teody Salas, etc.
Scenario:
After a run in one stage, definitely I had to "unload...then show clear". Ayaw mag-extract nor mag-eject ng shell. HINDI MA-COCK! IT IS AF IF NAKA-TRIGGER LOCK...BUT NOT. I had to fire the last ammo.
It happened to about 3 or 5 ammos. THEY, repeat THEY, ALL passed through the case gauge. Teflon coated.
Jason, Lito, Teody and others TRIED in their respective guns. Same thing.

QUESTION:
Fellow BoGs, WHAT DO YOU THINK MAY HAVE HAPPENED?

Bad Ammo , baka hindi na once fired yung brass Sir.

minsan kase pag sinabing once fired ang brass na nabibili dyan , it means once fired in a week for so months.
pero kung ikaw mismo bumile ng brand new brass at ikaw ang nagpa reload, cant think of anything.

JuDGe
05-12-2006, 23:07
only thing i can think of is "buntis" yung ammo... what brand of case gauge did you use? if you have some of those ammo left, try to guage it into your pistol's barrel chamber and see if it all fits easily.

pogi
05-13-2006, 01:23
Toxic & Judge,
Thanks mga Pre.
They passed through my own and Lito's case gauges. Don't know the brands.
The shells were actually once fired-Federal that came from USA. That's according to him who sold to and reloaded them for me. He got the shell for "scrutiny".
Offhand, I can also and ONLY think of "BUNTIS" na shell as the culprit.

Judge, nasabi sakin ni Django na LAG ka rin. I think I used to see you and Tigra every month-just don't know who is who among you two.
Sana di mapostpone clubshoot tom.

JuDGe
05-13-2006, 02:30
hi pogi, yes lagpsg na kami ni tigra, recently lang around february2006, si tigra yung mas magandang lalaki sa aming dalawa pero siyempre mas pogi ka pa din! :supergrin:

sayang nga di na ulit kami nakakasabay sa thursday praktis, medyo tambak mga asungot sa office eh, anyway, hope to meet up with you this sunday kung hindi nga ma postpone because of "Kaloy".... i will be wearing a black cap with BoG patch.

see you! :)

pogi
05-13-2006, 03:28
Judge, kayo nga yung dalawang magaling. One fires a Glock (.40 ba o 9mm) the other is naka-open. I watch both of you and admire na sana maging ganoon din ako someday.

Ako yung LAG na 3 Ms: Matanda, Maliit, Madalas Kulelat sa Clubshoot.

Hehe! See you.

JuDGe
05-13-2006, 07:53
hehehe, magaling sa pagkuha ng Binalot sa tanghalian! :eat:

i shoot the G17 and tigra is the Open shooter, recent photo taken during the last GD Cup RSAU Match at Camp Bagong Diwa with couple Capt Barbel & Darna (stage sponsors).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/gaston770/team_zero_2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/gaston770/team_zero_4.jpg

isuzu
05-13-2006, 07:53
Once fired brass that come from the States are usually taken from public ranges/gun ranges or gun clubs. I've seen barrels (drums) of brass just laying around the gun club.

They sort the brass by caliber, and brass mix-up is not uncommon. I've sorted a bucket of brass that my brother and I picked up, and I've mixed .38 Supers with 9 x 21s and 9 x 23s.

Also, a friend of mine got about a thousand of once fired 9mm brass. When he had it reloaded, the reloader returned at least 7 9 x 21 shells that got mixed with his 9mm shells.

vega
05-13-2006, 08:36
How about using your FA chamber as gauge instead of using the regular case gauge just like JuDGe said. The chamber might have tighter tolerance.

horge
05-13-2006, 16:56
Hi.

I would have replied earlier, but downed power lines yesterday
prevented me. As JuDGe, toxic and isuzu have already posted, the
non-extraction is indeed most easily explained by case deformation:

Brass is annealed the opposite way from steel: heating and immediate
quenching softens it, and for cartridge casings the firing cycle can
come close to approximating the annealing procedure --extreme heat
and pressure, followed by rapid exposure to much-cooler air (the very
thin section of the brass aids rapid cooling). Casings subjected to
this repeatedly tend to retain later deformations caused by stress.
They expand to hug the chamber walls, which is good, but then fail to
relax the hugging, which is bad.

In fact, used casings are often Teflon-coated to compensate for this.
If the casing is going to be tighter against the chamber walls, the
Teflon reduces friction to help with extraction... but if the case
wall is already so weak it's going to mold itself permanently to the
chamber interior, Teflon ain't necessarily gonna cut it.

However, the above applies to casings after the bullet has said bye-bye.
You seem to be describing a failed attempt to rack out an unfired
cartridge.


You furthermore seem to be describing a similar unfired cartridge
failing to rack out of Mr.Barretto's, Mr.Pible's and Mr.Salas' pistols.

If the cartridge was deformed before firing, your case gauges would
have caught it. Even with a tight chamber involved, as vega is
suggesting, the incident would require that ALL the pistols involved
had abnormally-tight chambers, which is unlikely.


A longshot:
If you never had problems prior with the batch of reloads in
question, consider that Thursday presented a spike in humidity:
all the prior scorching weeks were comparatively dry (RH 60's to 70's
while Thursday was into the high 90's and still as hot). Humidity does
some funky things to both dry and wet lubes, as well as residual gum
and carbon --and the chamber walls are better protected from burnout than the barrel interior.

If this happened between 1:30 and 3:00 in the afternoon, let me know.
Barometric pressure was going a little nuts around that time.


HINDI MA-COCK! IT IS AF IF NAKA-TRIGGER LOCK...BUT NOT.
This inability to cock the hammer(?) puzzles me.
Especially if it applies to the other three pistols as well.
That's why I asked if the platform was a 1911, to be sure. After
every shot, the hammer should remain cocked via slide cycling, so
what was there left to cock?

The 'trigger-lock'(?) I presume to be the thumb safety. It is
the thumb safety's operation that is dependent on the hammer
being cocked, not the hammer's cocking that is dependent on
the safety being off.

Are you instead referring to 'racking' the slide, perhaps?





:)
hth,
horge

9MX
05-13-2006, 17:32
Originally posted by vega
How about using your FA chamber as gauge instead of using the regular case gauge just like JuDGe said. The chamber might have tighter tolerance.

+1, FA chamber is the best gauge, cheap pa:cool:

paltik45
05-13-2006, 17:58
Sir, IMHO if the ammo passed the case gauge and actual chamber check I think the diameter of the ammo is not the culprit. I would like to suggest if you can check the OAL(over all lenght) of the ammo or the case. If the ammo is a tad longer than the specs or chamber it might get stuck on the "rifling" of the barrel. This is pretty common in rifle ammo but it happened to some of our club members using a.38super and .40SW ammo. Check the problematic case and if there are "rifling" marks the OAL might be longer. I hope this helps. :)

atmarcella
05-13-2006, 20:57
+2 FA barrel is best guage;)

OT, okay si darna:supergrin:

jasonub
05-14-2006, 02:51
Pogi pare,

forgetaboutit. As long as it chambers ok na yan just shoot it. It will extract on its own:supergrin:

If it does not guage then there is a problem. It guages then its ok. It fed on all of our pistols just fine. Baka yung teflon was a little tacky thus it stuck a little.

In my opinion just shoot it. Its something less to think about:)

mc_oliver
05-14-2006, 03:36
If the ammo chambered ok (and can be rechambered and extracted again with no hiccups) then another thing you might consider checking is extractor clocking and/or disconnector binding.

Extractor clocking isn't much of a problem if the gun is extracting reliably. But when your disconnector binds the slide (refuses to be pushed down), then you have a much more serious problem with your fire controls. This is potentialy dangerous and should be looked up ASAP. ;)

You don't happen to be using a 4-finger sear spring, do you?

Eye Cutter
05-14-2006, 06:37
pogi: your pistol's hammer is decentered. mukhang meron problema sa installation ng trigger group mo!

Allegra
05-14-2006, 08:16
Originally posted by paltik45
Sir, IMHO if the ammo passed the case gauge and actual chamber check I think the diameter of the ammo is not the culprit. I would like to suggest if you can check the OAL(over all lenght) of the ammo or the case. If the ammo is a tad longer than the specs or chamber it might get stuck on the "rifling" of the barrel. This is pretty common in rifle ammo but it happened to some of our club members using a.38super and .40SW ammo. Check the problematic case and if there are "rifling" marks the OAL might be longer. I hope this helps. :)


Yep , happened to mew too , especially if mejo madumi na yung dulo ng chamber
Pero I'm wondering why the gun wont cock

paltik45
05-14-2006, 12:37
I think the gun is not a factor here. Because as what our Kabayan said the ammo was tested in four(4) different guns. The same thing happened in all of the guns and I guess it is safe to say that the ammo is the cause.;)

pogi
05-14-2006, 19:24
Thanks mga BRO.
Sorry, I should have said, "hindi mag-rack". It was hammer-up and slide won't rack to eject the chambered ammo.

Judge, Ok, mas pogi ka nga kaysa kay Tigra.

Pre Jason, I'll try to follow your advice. Forgetaboutit!!! Kaya lang baka delikado nga like what MCO said. Check ko pa rin.

MCO, no, am not using 4-finger sear spring. I'll check what you recommended.

Eye Cutter, punta nga ako Churchill today to check bakit di naka-center hammer ko.

Horge, as usual you amuse me of the way you put words together. IBOTO SI HORGE PAGKA-SENADOR!!!!!!

Paltik45, Allegra, Isuzu, vega, 9mx, ATMarcella: thanks guys for the ideas.

bulm540
05-14-2006, 21:24
Has your Barrel been freeBored?? Could be that the ammo is touching the rifling. Happened to me before. Thought the gunsmith freebored the barrel but did not. There was no way I could rack the slide back.

9MX
05-14-2006, 21:32
pogi,

ditch the para, get a glock:supergrin: :beer:

Eye Cutter
05-14-2006, 22:06
Change the trigger group to Extreme Engineering set! hahaha!

horge
05-14-2006, 23:24
"President, Adorable Abby's Fans' Club!"

Uy! Who ees dis Abby? Adorable nga ba?
Paki-explica naman :)

9MX
05-15-2006, 00:19
Originally posted by horge
"President, Adorable Abby's Fans' Club!"

Uy! Who ees dis Abby? Adorable nga ba?
Paki-explica naman :)

Naglog-on na si Abby before, under the GT handle, "Fighter". somewhere in this forum are pictures of her with the BOGs, (funshoot and matches)

batangueno
05-15-2006, 02:14
Originally posted by horge
"President, Adorable Abby's Fans' Club!"

Uy! Who ees dis Abby? Adorable nga ba?
Paki-explica naman :)
Tagal mo kasi nawala eh. :supergrin:

Eye Cutter
05-15-2006, 04:38
hehehehe!:clown:

gundog
05-15-2006, 04:44
abby aka fighter. cya ang bumubugbog sa amin sa open :uglylol: :uglylol: :brickwall:

Django
05-15-2006, 05:16
Originally posted by JuDGe
. . .anyway, hope to meet up with you this sunday kung hindi nga ma postpone because of "Kaloy".... i will be wearing a black cap with BoG patch.

see you! :)

Guys - Natuloy ba ang clubshoot sa lagpsg?

I was out of town kasi. Right smack in the center of Kaloy. :supergrin:

JuDGe
05-15-2006, 05:47
cancelled sir.... this june na ata next clubshoot eh.

Django
05-15-2006, 06:09
Thanks for the info, Judge. :)

horge
05-15-2006, 18:32
Aaaa, si Ms. Abigail C :)
E... dapat nga na merong fan club.
Thanks for the enlightenment, Mannix, Paul and Joji!

(Hey there, BoyP! ;))

mc_oliver
05-16-2006, 14:04
Originally posted by Eye Cutter
Change the trigger group to Extreme Engineering set! hahaha!
'Di na ako makatulog dahil sa lintek na EE na yan. :supergrin: :supergrin:

Eye Cutter
05-17-2006, 05:09
oist! maglalaway ka lalo dito sa EE set ni judge! nyahahahahaha! :supergrin:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eyecutter/Judge-EE-Set.jpg

Chie
05-17-2006, 20:10
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eye Cutter
[B]oist! maglalaway ka lalo dito sa EE set ni judge! nyahahahahaha! :supergrin:

What sear spring will judge use?

Eye Cutter
05-17-2006, 23:02
don't know yet. pero dapat sti sear spring and ismi 19lb hammer spring

pogi
05-17-2006, 23:36
Doc,

Ok na yung orig mag ng Para ko para mag-19 pero "umuupo" ang spring. Baka sa match magluko. Into what brand must I replace the spring with?

Yung Mecgar ko, papaturo ako kay MCO pag nagkita kami.

Eye Cutter
05-18-2006, 00:42
i use ismi springs. Nagpapabili pa ako sa US

pogi
05-18-2006, 01:47
Get ako 1 Doc pagdating.

choi_tan2000
05-22-2006, 20:16
good day po mga sir san po kaya makakabili ng 19lbs spring para sa msh ng 1911 ko kasi matgas po hummer ko and malaki masyado pweede kopo ba plitan un. tnx

Chie
05-22-2006, 21:06
Originally posted by choi_tan2000
good day po mga sir san po kaya makakabili ng 19lbs spring para sa msh ng 1911 ko kasi matgas po hummer ko and malaki masyado pweede kopo ba plitan un. tnx

try stronghand, pb dionisio, tru weight or any twin pines branches. pwede palitan hammer spring :)

choi_tan2000
05-22-2006, 21:29
tnx sir

jasonub
05-22-2006, 23:11
i have 2x 19 ibs spring wolf avail. also have ismi 15 pound chrome silicon available all brand new. pm me if your interested