Not sure if I want a PM9 anymore...

[douglevy]

So for the last few weeks I've been obsessing about getting a Kahr PM9 to use as my first carry gun. I've been counting the days until the next gun show when I'll pick it up for my birthday. I've handled the gun numerous times, dry-fired it (never live-fired, though), tried it on with various holsters, and I really like what I've seen.

However, the more research I do, the more it seems that there are more bad things about this gun than good ones! So many stories about barrel peening, slides not returning to battery, feeding problems, poor workmanship, etc. etc. I haven't come across many PM9 owners on here whose guns haven't made a trip or two back to Kahr for repairs.

It's weird, especially here on Glock Talk, where people sing the praises of Glocks all day long - there seem to be 1,000 praises for every 1 negative comment about Glocks.... But when it comes to the Kahr PM9, it almost seems like people that own them knock them more than they praise them!

My first and only handgun so far is a G17 that has almost 2,000 rounds through it in 8 weeks with absolutely no failures or other problems whatsoever. I'm not sure if I could put up with a gun that has as many "issues" is the Kahr PM9 seems to have, especially when I plan on carrying it every single day and trusting it with my life. I'm also not sure if I want to spend $600 to take the chance of having problems with it and having to dump it off on someone else for a loss of a couple hundred dollars.

Is it really as bad as it seems or should I feel comfortable getting one? What's a guy to do?

[38snapcaps]

Being a new Kahr owner of less than two months, I have had a voracious hunger to read everything I can about these guns.

I've concluded that the all steel Kahrs are the best in terms of quality and reliability, followed by the P sized pistols. The MK9 seems to be okay but, oh boy, the PM9 has some serious issues!

Apparently it hasn't always been that way, but sure is now. Maybe in six months the factory will have the solution and the guns will safe to buy again.

My local Gander Mountain just got in a PM9 yesterday. I looked it over. Appeared okay, but for over $600 I wouldn't take the chance. You can get a K9 for that kind of money, or a P9/CW9 for less. If you really want that size Kahr I would have to say go with the MK9.

Sorry to have to say it, but I wouldn't dare buy a PM9 right now.

[UrbanCowboy]

Originally posted by douglevy
I haven't come across many PM9 owners on here whose guns haven't made a trip or two back to Kahr for repairs. Now you can say you have. I bought mine at the end of November and have since then put 3000 rounds through it without ever needing to send it in for repairs. (edit: After taking it apart I learned that the barrel was peening so I traded it. It looks like the front of the hood started a while ago and the top started sometime after 3000 rounds)

[Jercdevil]

Bought mine in Dec 2005 for $570.00 w NS and DLC. I have around 2500 rnds thru it without any problems with mostly JHP (Golddots) I believe it's the most power you can get in such a small package. Plus the improved self defence loads now a days I'm a believer.;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/jercdevil/MyHandguns068.jpg

[BusterDog]

I have a PM9 DLC and love it. With 800 rounds through it I have had three malfunctions- and two were only a failure to lock the slide back on last round with my reloads. The third was a Corbon JHP (my carry ammo) hanging on feed ramp, likely because it was the top round in the magazine and I did not set fully. A tap and it was back in action. It is also very shootable and accurate (7 0f 7 in the head of an IDPA target at 20 yards slow fire, Corbon 115g JHP at 1,200+ fps from the 3" barrel.)

This makes the little gun more reliable than my:
Glock 19
Glock 27
S&W 1911
Remington 1100 Shotgun
most of my coworkers
the toilet in the kids bathroom

And- with the ultra thin, Fist Kydex IWB holster I actually carry in my Rayon, workout/gym trunks and a thin tanktop, WITHOUT A BELT!!! REALLY!!! Can't do that with my G27.
http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL1120/3939077/8153157/108455260.jpg
http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL1120/3939077/8153157/108455178.jpg

[Circle Burner]

PM9 has serious issues?? Doubt that really.

I purchased my PM9 last summer and I have 900 rounds through it without a single issue. I've used various JHP's and have never had a single failure of any kind. It's a very nice weapon, and a perfect conceal carry.

[Tough Guy Levi]

Howdy DougLevy:

Except for a barrel recall, my Kahr PM 9mm (VA59XX) hasn't experienced a trip to the factory since I purchased it new June of last year. It was manufactured in August 2003 and has digested over 5900+ rounds without any problems.

Having made the above statement, I would have doubts about acquiring another polymer frame Kahr today until issues relating to barrel peening/timing are resolved. Some formum contributors feel Kahrs quality control has gone by the wayside since there are more problems relating to barrel peening etc. It might be a supplier problem with their quality control manufacturing parts not up to specs. North American Arms no longer uses Kahr to manufacture frames/parts for them thus we still don't know where the problems exist.

Tough Guy Levi

[douglevy]

So, what do you think is the best course of action? Is the MK9 worth the 8 extra ounces of weight? Should I try to track down an older PM9 made before the reliability issues started occuring? (If so, how old?) Should I forget the damn thing altogether and look for a good S&W snubbie revolver or resign myself to the additional size of a subcompact Glock?

I REALLY like the PM9 but I just don't know... and 8 extra ounces of steel in the MK9 seems like a lot of weight - it makes it heaver than a G26.

[jp233]

Yeah.... either find an older PM9 (before 2004?) or just go with the MK9. I don't think you can go wrong with the MK9 with a good carry holster.

[warmrain]

Originally posted by douglevy
So, what do you think is the best course of action? Is the MK9 worth the 8 extra ounces of weight? Should I try to track down an older PM9 made before the reliability issues started occuring? (If so, how old?) Should I forget the damn thing altogether and look for a good S&W snubbie revolver or resign myself to the additional size of a subcompact Glock?

I REALLY like the PM9 but I just don't know... and 8 extra ounces of steel in the MK9 seems like a lot of weight - it makes it heaver than a G26.
I have both. On your hip you will not notice the weight of the MK9. IMHO the only real good reason to NOT buy an all stainless Kahr is for alternate carry (e.g. pocket, purse, ankle, etc.).

Best, Cars

[douglevy]

Originally posted by warmrain
I have both. On your hip you will not notice the weight of the MK9. IMHO the only real good reason to NOT buy an all stainless Kahr is for alternate carry (e.g. pocket, purse, ankle, etc.).

Best, Cars

That's good to know and sounds reasonable. It seems to me that when it comes to carry guns, SIZE is much more of an issue than weight, since something that's small enough to carry usually can't weigh too much just BECAUSE of its size.

It appears that the MK9 is the exact same gun as the PM9 except that it is all steel instead of polymer frame. Does the steel frame REALLY solve all of the problems that the PM9 has, or does the MK9 have some of the same issues?

P.S. Thanks for everyone's input.

[BusterDog]

Originally posted by jp233
Yeah.... either find an older PM9 (before 2004?) or just go with the MK9. I don't think you can go wrong with the MK9 with a good carry holster.

I bought mine in June 2005. Works great.
The MK is too heavy if you really want a small, easy carry piece.

Go ahead and buy the new PM9. Or, if you're really swayed by all the naysayers, I'll sell you my used one for $3,289.35.:rollsmiley:

[warmrain]

Originally posted by douglevy
That's good to know and sounds reasonable. It seems to me that when it comes to carry guns, SIZE is much more of an issue than weight, since something that's small enough to carry usually can't weigh too much just BECAUSE of its size.

It appears that the MK9 is the exact same gun as the PM9 except that it is all steel instead of polymer frame. Does the steel frame REALLY solve all of the problems that the PM9 has, or does the MK9 have some of the same issues?

P.S. Thanks for everyone's input.
Major components are not interchangable. They really had to alter the design details to make this work.

IF you want an ankle or pocket BUG, etc. then the PM9 is really a great pistol IF you get a good one or have the patience to work it out with Kahr. If I were to have just one, it would be the MK9. It is a work of art.

[Dobbler]

And- with the ultra thin, Fist Kydex IWB holster I actually carry in my Rayon, workout/gym trunks and a thin tanktop, WITHOUT A BELT!!! REALLY!!! Can't do that with my G27.
http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL1120/3939077/8153157/108455260.jpg
http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL1120/3939077/8153157/108455178.jpg [/B]

What is the exact model of that holster from Fist? Does the PM9 fit perfectly?

[perrytrails]

I beleave thats a #1 clip in ultra thin Kydex, it is very thin and very durable. The pic you will see on Fist's web site is the same holster in leather. Its molded exactly to the gun. Worth the money in my book!

[BusterDog]

Originally posted by perrytrails
I beleave thats a #1 clip in ultra thin Kydex, it is very thin and very durable. The pic you will see on Fist's web site is the same holster in leather. Its molded exactly to the gun. Worth the money in my book!

Yes, it is the #1K Clip from Fist.

http://www.fist-inc.com/holsters/k1/1k.htm

Perfect fit and really nice draw.
When you reholster, you reach a point where the gun kind of gets sucked in.
The thinnest holster for the thinnest gun makes sense to me.

[mini14jac]

My PM9 was purchased in Oct. 2002.
No trips to the factory.
It was on the barrel recall list, but mine has fed all the jhps I've tried, so I didn't send it back.

Mine has been flawless except for some shooter-induced issues.
(Like the time I put the recoil spring in backwards.) :upeyes:
Around 2200 rounds so far.

If you're getting it for carry, I really recommend the PM9.
I had a MK9 that I loved, but it was too heavy for me to CCW.
In my experience, every ounce counts when a gun is to be carried all day.
I traded my MK for the PM.

Now that I've actually been carrying for a while, I may not mind the extra weight of the MK, but it's hard to beat the little PM9 in an IWB holster.
It is an awesome IWB gun, but also works really well carried in a pocket.

Buy one and take it out and shoot it.

Like they say about KelTecs:
All of the people who bought good ones don't have anything to post about. :cool:

[Los Suenos]

My PM9 is perfect. Had it for three years. It's on the barrel recall list. I polished the feed ramp and chamber mouth before I fired rd. 1. Never a malfunction of any kind. I'm thinking about selling it for more than new ones cost. I think it's the shooter and not the gun. I'm not talking about magazines peeling apart in the back or sights flying off. Hold the thing tight and throw 1k rds. through it as fast as possible. 200 rds. through a carry gun is a joke anyway.

[MtnDewd]

Hey douglevy,

I have both a PM9, and an MK9. I've had the PM9 for a little over a year, and the MK9 just over a month. My PM9 made a trip back to Kahr before it was ever fired! The slide would not lock back- not even manually! Long story short, Kahr fixed it and other than a few FTB's during the first 200-300 round break-in, it's worked flawlessly ever since. It currently has 1400 rounds through it. My MK9 now has over 700 rounds through it and was flawless right out of the box. I like my PM9 and trust it to function at this point. That having been said, I would be very reluctant to buy one now. Unless you discount all the negative posts regarding the PM9, it would be hard to believe that Kahr isn't having some serious problems with the quality of the pistol. I think that buying one now would just be rolling the dice...you might get one that works, and then again you might not. It's your call. If you don't mind taking a chance, and/or don't mind sending the thing back to Kahr for weeks at a time, then go for it! As for me, at this point I'm sticking with their all steel line. Just my two cents!
Good luck either way,
MtnDewd

[kraigster414]

Absolutely zero problems with my PM9 and I now have around 1000 rounds through it. I don't know where this crap is coming from. People want the polymer not the steel for all day concealed carry so I roll my eyes when people say, "get the all-steel." Combine the PM9's light weight, size, and potent caliber, and there's very little in the way of serious competition. This is a gun that has far more supporters than detractors but such is life on the internet (do you realize that only a fraction of gun owners read these boards let alone post? And those that do are far less inclined to sing praises vs. rave and rant. Just human nature.)

[flyandscuba]

Zero problems with my PM40 or T40. Maybe I'm lucky, but I have complete confidence in carrying either for a CCW.

[douglevy]

Originally posted by kraigster414
This is a gun that has far more supporters than detractors but such is life on the internet (do you realize that only a fraction of gun owners read these boards let alone post? And those that do are far less inclined to sing praises vs. rave and rant. Just human nature.)

I'm not too sure about that - I've seen far more praises about Glocks than I have complaints, and I'll sing praises all day long about my G17, as it's never failed me once after 2,000+ rounds, as previously mentioned.

Also, when it comes to guns, IMO one negative remark is equal to 1,000 positive remarks - I'm not willing to make any allowances when it comes to my carry gun, so the positive aspects of the gun better be more than 1,000 to 1 when compared to the negatives. It just seems to me that there is a very palpable "buzz" among gun users that Kahr's quality is going downhill and that a newly-purchased polymer-framed Kahr can't really be trusted.

I need a gun that isn't going to cause me ANY problems or need to make any trips back to its maker, and I just don't know if the Kahr PM9 lives up to that standard right now.

[TRESCOCOS]

i was gonna dump mine after some break in ftf's etc but i gave it another chance and it has smoothed out. 1000 plus rds and no malfunctions. i like it for the size

however i have one problem with it that i havent seen come up on board before. I am pretty big guy with xtra large hands. when i shoot the bottom of trigger guard hits right side of my first knuckle joint. to the point where it got raw. now have a big callus/scar healing up. I just take the pain as the gun is not a 'shoot all day' piece. I usually shoot with middele of my first pad on the trigger. this is when i get the most damage to my finger. if i stick my finger all the way in to where i am pullling the trigger with second joint then i dont get eaten up but can hit s....it.
anyone else have this prob?

[kraigster414]

Originally posted by douglevy
I'm not too sure about that - I've seen far more praises about Glocks than I have complaints, and I'll sing praises all day long about my G17, as it's never failed me once after 2,000+ rounds, as previously mentioned.

Also, when it comes to guns, IMO one negative remark is equal to 1,000 positive remarks - I'm not willing to make any allowances when it comes to my carry gun, so the positive aspects of the gun better be more than 1,000 to 1 when compared to the negatives. It just seems to me that there is a very palpable "buzz" among gun users that Kahr's quality is going downhill and that a newly-purchased polymer-framed Kahr can't really be trusted.

I need a gun that isn't going to cause me ANY problems or need to make any trips back to its maker, and I just don't know if the Kahr PM9 lives up to that standard right now.

I believe if you truly initiated a professional market survery, you would find that the positives well EXCEED your threshold of 1000:1. As I stated, my PM9 is now 2 years old and it's performance to date has been flawless. Has quality declined since then, I don't know to be honest with you but you need to do what you feel is right. The only point I was trying to make, is that take what you read on these internet gun sites with a grain of salt - this is particularly good advice for the newbies out there. What can't be disputed (it's just human nature), is that people are far more inclined to post negatives vice positives. Additionally, it is also a fact that only a fraction of gun owners read, post or could care less about what's being said at "www.gunsandmoreguns.com." Why I spend as much time at these sites is a question I keep asking myself (truth be told I have learned a lot). :)

[douglevy]

Originally posted by kraigster414
I believe if you truly initiated a professional market survery, you would find that the positives well EXCEED your threshold of 1000:1. As I stated, my PM9 is now 2 years old and it's performance to date has been flawless. Has quality declined since then, I don't know to be honest with you but you need to do what you feel is right. The only point I was trying to make, is that take what you read on these internet gun sites with a grain of salt - this is particularly good advice for the newbies out there. What can't be disputed (it's just human nature), is that people are far more inclined to post negatives vice positives. Additionally, it is also a fact that only a fraction of gun owners read, post or could care less about what's being said at "www.gunsandmoreguns.com." Why I spend as much time at these sites is a question I keep asking myself (truth be told I have learned a lot). :)

Kraigster -

I respect and appreciate your input and, for the most part, I agree with you! I guess the bottom line is that what I've read online (which I know can only be trusted/believed to a certain extent) seems to be a surprisingly large proportion of negative comments, which is enough to have unsettled me to the point where I'm doubtful about the gun's performance.

Now, setting aside the fact that one must depend on a carry gun to protect life, I am one to seriously consider ANY purchase that tops a couple hundred dollars ($500-$600+ in this case), so whether it's a camera, a cellphone, a computer, or a gun, if it appears that the item has one or more prevalent problems, I probably won't buy it... I guess that's what happened with the good old PM9.

So, onward with my search for a carry gun. Any suggestions for something chambered in 9mm or better that comes anywhere close to the size of the PM9???

DL

[kraigster414]

That's a tough one Doug. Keltec has a new one out, the PF-9 but it's too soon to develop a consensus. A line I am very happy with is the Springfield Armory XD. They have a compact 9mm that you may want to check out but it's still going to be a bit bigger than the PM9. And of course there are always the mini Glocks. To be honest with you, if you are not planning on pocket carry, and you get the right leather, a slightly larger 9mm is not going to play havoc on your body. Feel free to message me and we can discuss further. We'll find something for you! :)

[Tork]

anyone know anything about skyy pistols??
looks comparable, way cheaper....

[flyandscuba]

The Skyy is a clone of the Kel-tec P-11. Too big to be a comfortable pocket gun. If you want a 9mm in a similar-sized package to the PM9, you'll have to go with the Rohrbaugh. The R9 is a work of art, but I tend to carry my PM40 over my R9S.

[BusterDog]

Originally posted by douglevy
Kraigster -

...I'm doubtful about the gun's performance...
...the fact that one must depend on a carry gun to protect life...
So, onward with my search for a carry gun...
DL

I just thought of another reason the PM9 is a good choice for self-protection. You'll carry it. Before getting mine (excellent reliability) I didn't carry my G27 while jogging or lounging in gym shorts and a tank top. Now I carry the PM9 in those situations.

I'll post a picture of how well the PM9 conceals in the Fist holster.

[douglevy]

Originally posted by BusterDog
I just thought of another reason the PM9 is a good choice for self-protection. You'll carry it. Before getting mine (excellent reliability) I didn't carry my G27 while jogging or lounging in gym shorts and a tank top. Now I carry the PM9 in those situations.

I'll post a picture of how well the PM9 conceals in the Fist holster.

Buster -

You already posted pics of your PM9 in the Fist holster! :freak: Check back on page 1 of this thread.

I don't think anyone disputes the concealability of the PM9 - it's one of the smallest 9mm pistols on the market - but rather its reliability and overall quality. I understand that I'm more likely to carry it more consistently than if I had a bigger, blockier gun that was more of a nuisance, but that is worthless if the gun isn't reliable and trustworthy.

DL

[kraigster414]

Doug, as I said with the right leather and the right mind set, a slightly larger gun, one that you have complete confidence in, might be the better bet (although I have had zero problems with my PM9).

Reliability problems are rarely associated with the Glocks. If 9mm is your caliber of choice, you may want to consider the G26. Though bigger than the Kahr PM9, it is very concealable. Personally, I find the PM9 too heavy for all but occassional side pants pocket carry. Nine times out of ten, it winds up in an IWB holster, same as my Glock 23, 1911, etc.). The Glock is also about a hundred bucks less than the Kahr PM9.

[BusterDog]

Originally posted by douglevy
Buster -

You already posted pics of your PM9 in the Fist holster! :freak: Check back on page 1 of this thread.

DL
Your right but I was going to take a photo while wearing it with my gym shorts (I have nice legs.) But I guess anyone that knows about the PM9 can already see how small and easy it is to hide.

I guess my point was before getting the PM9 I would go unarmed to certain places (gym, dinner in slacks...)because my G27 and was just too large. I know there are other ways to carry like fanny packs and the like but I prefer IWB to keep close control over the weapon.

Glocks are excellent pistols and my brand new Glock 23, right out of the box with only a patch through the bore, just digested 375 rounds of various ammo (Blach Hills 165 JHP XP, Winchester value pack .40s, Federal Eagle, Reminton Express, reloads...) without a single hiccup. This was all on the same day.

I love my PM9 and the other two people I know with them are just as happy. It could be we got a good batch.

[douglevy]

Originally posted by kraigster414
If 9mm is your caliber of choice, you may want to consider the G26.
I have been seriously thinking about this for the past couple days and may end up picking up a G26. I've shot one a couple times before - it's a fantastic gun and I shot it well on both occasions. It is bigger and blockier, but I guess I could make it work if I really wanted to.

I'm also contemplating a snubbie .357/.38spl S&W revolver...

[MtnDewd]

While it's true that the postings on this site are merely anecdotel, and not a scientific survey, a good question to ask might be:
If Kahr is not having a lot of quality control problems then why is there a 5 or 6 week backlog on returns for repairs?

Are they just that short handed? or are there that many pistols being returned?

I don't claim to positively know the answer to these questions; however, it does lend some credence to all of the postings about problems.

By the way, I have a PM9 (bought April '05) that works flawlessly, but it has made a trip back to Kahr to correct initial defects.

MtnDewd

[MtnDewd]

Originally posted by TRESCOCOS


however i have one problem with it that i havent seen come up on board before. I am pretty big guy with xtra large hands. when i shoot the bottom of trigger guard hits right side of my first knuckle joint. to the point where it got raw. now have a big callus/scar healing up....
anyone else have this prob?

Yeah, it happens to me too, and I'm left handed! It only happens with my PM9 not with my MK9. I think maybe the polymer frame is flexing under recoil or something. But like you said, this is not a gun that's made to shoot all day at the range. It's a self defense gun, so I'll just live with it.

MtnDewd

[alank2]

Hi,

Originally posted by douglevy
I have been seriously thinking about this for the past couple days and may end up picking up a G26. I've shot one a couple times before - it's a fantastic gun and I shot it well on both occasions. It is bigger and blockier, but I guess I could make it work if I really wanted to.

I'm also contemplating a snubbie .357/.38spl S&W revolver...

I too was very seriously thinking about purchasing a PM9 or possibly a MK9. I have a G26 and absolutely love it, but I wanted something a little smaller for pocket carry when I needed something easier than belt carry. I read and read posts. In the end, I just couldn't spend the money on the Kahr knowing that chances were good that it would have problems. You might get a good one, but then again you might get a terrible one. I think what finally soured me on the Kahr was the peening issue. With so many pictures of it and so many people experiencing it, I would say it is just a matter of time before a pistol you spent big money on is going to fail. I have to ask the question of Kahr, what the heck changed? Why did all these peening issues begin? Did they change to a softer metal? They did something.

Anyway, I ended up getting a S&W 442 for pocket carry for $361. Much less expensive and I have been totally pleased with it, thrilled in fact. My only issue with it is that it is so EASY to carry that it makes me want to be lazy and carry it instead of my G26 IWB, hardly its fault! I never thought of myself as a revo kind of guy, but this 442 is just sweet.

I can say that I am 100% happy I didn't buy a PM9. I have not regretted this decision at all. If you really want a small 9mm auto, wait for the Kel-Tec PF9 coming out. At least if it doesn't work well, you won't have paid an insane amount for it.

Given that you have a Glock 9mm and have had such good reliability out of it, most small automatics are going to disappoint you because you are already used to better.

Good Luck,

Alan

[Tork]

i still may go to a revolver.... the biggest draw for an auto is capacity... and the single stack guns are lacking in that aspect.



however i have one problem with it that i havent seen come up on board before. I am pretty big guy with xtra large hands. when i shoot the bottom of trigger guard hits right side of my first knuckle joint. to the point where it got raw. now have a big callus/scar healing up....

i put a hogue slip-on on and i havent had a problem with my p-40.
my first range visit was punishing, but after the slip on and a new recoil spring, everything is solved

[douglevy]

Originally posted by alank2
Hi,

I too was very seriously thinking about purchasing a PM9 or possibly a MK9. I have a G26 and absolutely love it, but I wanted something a little smaller for pocket carry when I needed something easier than belt carry. I read and read posts. In the end, I just couldn't spend the money on the Kahr knowing that chances were good that it would have problems. You might get a good one, but then again you might get a terrible one. I think what finally soured me on the Kahr was the peening issue. With so many pictures of it and so many people experiencing it, I would say it is just a matter of time before a pistol you spent big money on is going to fail. I have to ask the question of Kahr, what the heck changed? Why did all these peening issues begin? Did they change to a softer metal? They did something.

Anyway, I ended up getting a S&W 442 for pocket carry for $361. Much less expensive and I have been totally pleased with it, thrilled in fact. My only issue with it is that it is so EASY to carry that it makes me want to be lazy and carry it instead of my G26 IWB, hardly its fault! I never thought of myself as a revo kind of guy, but this 442 is just sweet.

I can say that I am 100% happy I didn't buy a PM9. I have not regretted this decision at all. If you really want a small 9mm auto, wait for the Kel-Tec PF9 coming out. At least if it doesn't work well, you won't have paid an insane amount for it.

Given that you have a Glock 9mm and have had such good reliability out of it, most small automatics are going to disappoint you because you are already used to better.

Good Luck,

Alan
Alan -

It sounds like you and I are on EXACTLY the same page! After more contemplation, I'm pretty sure I'm going to pick up a G26 next weekend to use as my carry gun. The flawless operation of my G17 has spoiled me, so I wouldn't feel comfortable with anything else (especially given all of the "operational issues" Kahr is having).

I'm looking forward to branching out into buying other brands (G17 is only handgun I own currently) but I really want to "go with what I know" when it comes to carrying. Yes, the G26 is bigger than the PM9, but I'll deal with it.

Pocket carry isn't really my thing. Even an unholstered PM9 in my pocket feels too big and looks too "bulgy" for me to pocket carry, so anything bigger wouldn't really work either. Besides, the way I dress should virtually always accomodate belt carry.

I won't be joining the Kahr Club just yet but I'll be much happier and much more confident with my choice of carry gun. Thanks so much to everyone for their input.

Doug

[alank2]

Hi Doug,

If you aren't planning on pocket carry, then a G26 should be excellent for most other forms of carry. I carry mine in a CTAC with a wilderness belt. I'll bet you'll love the G26, I don't know of many people who don't!

If you do plan on pocket carry someday, give the j-frame a try. It always astonishes me how easy it is to carry.

Good Luck,

Alan

[RMTactical]

I've been scared away. It looked perfect for me initially. Having owned a K9 (my bro also owned a MK9), I knew it was a great gun and didn't doubt Kahr's quality.

My two older brothers bought PM9's, and they had immediate problems. So, one day I went shooting with my oldest brother. He'd put about 100-200 rounds through it by then but we wanted to get it past the break in period so we took it out with 2 100 round WWB value packs. Went through the whole 200 rounds, and let me tell you, it was painstaking...

His PM9 has never been 100% even since then (and neither has my other brothers' PM9). It just totally shattered my confidence in the PM9's. Despite it all, I'm still tempted to try a P9 though I will admit, because it is more like my K9.

[army_eod]

If you really need a pocket gun, pick up a Smith 642 until you figure out if there is a good pocket auto out there. Hate to say it, but the Taurus Millenium Pros are good pocket guns. Try one.

[wburychka]

Originally posted by Tork
anyone know anything about skyy pistols??
looks comparable, way cheaper....
I joined this forum just to answer your question, however I think I'll stay a while, as there seem to be some pretty knowledgable people here, and I can certainly benefit from knowledge...and maybe share a little of my own small body of learning.

I'm sorry to say I have some experience with Skyy pistols. When looking for a Kel-Tec for CCC (comfortable concealed carry), I ran across one in March. The dealer raved about how the company was started by ex Kel-Tec guys who wanted to improve the line. Their first model was the CPX-1. Priced comparable to the P11 but ostensibly better finished and better designed. Hmmm.

Three months later, this gun sits on the closet floor waiting for a bleeding liberal "Turn in your handgun for $100" event. History. After twice to the range, it went back to the factory due to 15-20% misfires and chronic loose firing pin retaining screw. First time to the range after that repair, the firing pin broke. Dealer ordered a new firing pin.

Next time to the range with the new firing pin, the gun worked fine. One misfire out of 150 or so rounds, but then I couldn't remove the slide to clean it. After some effort, the slide came off, revealing a cracked aluminum slide rail in the frame. Called to Skyy and was told that I was only the third or fourth to have that cracked frame problem (I've since learned that all who call with that problem get the same "3rd or 4th" story). So I sent it to the factory again. Note that each "send in" requires a trip to the dealer, since I cannot send it myself, and a trip back to pick it up.

All along, I keep reading in the Skyy forum of similar problems, with the guys who seem happy with theirs reporting "only" 10% or so misfires out of very few rounds per month fired. A few claim hundreds of rounds with only a few misfires, failures to extract, or failures to feed. But one by one, I read of users getting their repaired guns back and selling them immediately after test firing a single magazine. Those who continue to speak so highly, I find somewhat suspect, and you'll see why when you read to the end.

The original gun had frame number 26nn. The repaired gun has frame 9nn...presumably a previously returned gun being scavenged for parts. And the paperwork all reflects "used gun", I might add. The frame fix involved cutting out that portion of the aluminum rail that buckled and cracked. Three more trips to the range 50-150 rounds each, and it seemed OK. And then it didn't. First the slide did not lock open after the last round. Then failures to extract. Repeatedly. Cleaned the gun and found that the portion of the aluminum rail left after cutting out the cracked section is apparently not strong enough, and it warped and bowed in two directions, again rendering the slide difficult to remove.

My conclusion is that this gun is a flawed design unless limited to very few rounds fired, and that makes it unsuited to concealed carry, since the necessary practice (IMHO 50-100 rounds per week assorted shooting styles and targets) is more than this little toy gun can handle without failures one after another.

If you need low price, I'd go to the Kel-Tec. If you just need compact, then the compact Glocks or--if you want a little more ND protection, the Springfield Armory XD9 or XD40 Subcompacts with their grip safety. I have the XD9SC and opted for it over the Glock only for the grip safety, which makes me feel a little better about a gun pointed into my pants, even with a holster covering the trigger.

Since buying the Skyy, I have learned about an unethical tactic used by a Skyy executive, who posted on the Kel-Tec owners group board posing as a dissatisfied Kel-Tec user. When he was finally exposed, his apology consisted of "Oops. You caught me." To my thinking, this alone would be enough to steer me away from Skyy, although as it turned out, the guns themselves are the best reason to stay away!

Sorry for such a long first post.

[douglevy]

Originally posted by wburychka
I joined this forum just to answer your question, however I think I'll stay a while, as there seem to be some pretty knowledgable people here, and I can certainly benefit from knowledge...and maybe share a little of my own small body of learning.
Bill -

Thanks for the info, and welcome to GlockTalk! There ARE some pretty knowledgeable people here, but it takes a little while to identify them and distinguish them from the not-so-knowledgeable ones, if you catch my drift.

Looking forward to hear more of your input here in GT.

Take care,
Doug

[Tork]

hmm, so rough experiences with the skyy huh..

welcome tho.
i have no interest in glocks, but kahr forums are hard to come by