Springfield Armory GI Vs. MilSpec

[ShakesTheKlown]

Looking at my first 1911, and debating between a couple of Springfield Armory 1911s; the GI 5" and the Mil Spec 5".

Couple questions about them, though. Is there any real difference between the two that doesn't show up in the numbers on the site? The Mil Spec looks as though it has a larger ejection port, is this an improvement over the GI? The Mil Spec has 3 dot sights, and the GI has blade sights. How difficult are the blade sights to change, should I choose to, and do you feel they reasonable for use?

Also a couple basic mod questions. I would want to put on an extended beavertail grip, and an ambidextrous thumb safety, possibly a magazine release too. Are these mods I would be able to do myself, or would they require a gunsmith?

I realize the Full Size has the grip safety and ambidextrous thumb safety, and a skeletonized hammer and trigger which I will likely do given time, but I don't like the aesthetics of the front cocking serrations. Plus I kind of prefer to start at the beginning so I can truly know everything done to it.

One last question; magazines. What is the highest capacity I can expect to use with a non-double stack SA, without it protruding much? The Sub-Compact glocks forum has a picture showing the various mag extensions, can anyone direct me to something similar with different capacity magazines for 1911s? I'm not expecting 13 rounds to fit flush, I just want to know if there are 8 or 9 round mags that will not break up the lines of the pistol.

Thanks.

[auto45]

There are flush fit 8 round magazines. 10 rounders, I think, extend maybe an inch + below the grip so easily noticable.

As far as putting parts on yourself, you will get many opinions so I would do a lot of research. A lot really depends on how "good" you are with your "hands", etc. Safeties, trigger work, etc requires "knowledge" IMO since you "foolin" with parts that fire the gun. Screwing up a mag catch is different than a sear. Again, there's lot's of resources for you to read and decide what you are comfortable doing...and not doing!

[10mm4ever]

If you're wanting the beavertail, and all the other bells and whistles you should definately consider spending the extra 150-200 for the "loaded" model, it's actually a bargain when you consider all the refinements that are included. The mil-spec is more of an "enhanced GI", and your best bet if you know you're going to be modding later on. The GI is more of a "retro" model, and upgrading it to what it sounds like you really want, will cost you more in the long run. I wont even get into the beavertail issue, sure it can be done to a mil-spec or GI, but by the time you spend the money for the jig,tools, beavertail, and refinish(unless it's stainless) you'll have spent far more than you would have on a loaded model just on THAT upgrade. Go to the 1911 forum, they have a forum for each manufacturer there, and all the differences in the Springfield models are explained in great detail.

[ShakesTheKlown]

So then if I go with the loaded full size, how hard is it to change the backstrap to the rounded one offered on the GI and MilSpec? I'm under the impression that it's basically trapped in place by the grips, so just requires removing the grips and inserting a new one, but want to make sure of that.

Thanks again.

[1991]

The "rounded backstrap" is an arched mainspring housing. The mainspring housing is held in place by the pin at the base of the gripframe; it's the pin that you can see because there is a cutout at the bottom rear of the grip panles. Changing the mainspring housing requires nothing more than tapping out the pin, pulling the old housing down and out of the gripframe, transferring the mainspring parts to the new housing, pushing the new housing into place, and tapping the pin back in.

[HCRoadie]

10mm4ever is right. Spend the extra on a loaded version. Get the arched main spring housing, what 1991 forgot to mention is that you sohould secure the grip saftey with a rubber band or something to that effect. This will help keep your sear spring, which is the three leafed spring under the grip saftey and MSH, from getting out of wack....
go to 1911forum.com for real help

[Jammer Six]

Had a Loaded model, I sold it. Didn't like it.

Now I have two milspecs, and couldn't be happier.

Changing a mainspring housing can involve fitting it, particularly if you get a good one.

Good luck.

[10mm4ever]

Originally posted by ShakesTheKlown
So then if I go with the loaded full size, how hard is it to change the backstrap to the rounded one offered on the GI and MilSpec? I'm under the impression that it's basically trapped in place by the grips, so just requires removing the grips and inserting a new one, but want to make sure of that.

Thanks again.
You're referring to the arched mainspring housing, as opposed to the flat MSH that (unfortunately) comes standard on most of the better 1911's. I prefer them as well, and it's a 5 minute job(if that) to switch them out. If you'd like me to walk you through it sometime, just PM me or e-mail.http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f7/masterofg3/th_000_1483.jpg (http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f7/masterofg3/000_1483.jpg)

[ShakesTheKlown]

Originally posted by Jammer Six
Had a Loaded model, I sold it. Didn't like it.

Now I have two milspecs, and couldn't be happier.

Changing a mainspring housing can involve fitting it, particularly if you get a good one.

Good luck.

What about the loaded model didn't you like that the milspec fixed?

At this point I'm pretty much at a toss up between the milspec and the loaded.

How does the parkerized finish on them in real life compare to the pictures on the SA website?

On gunbroker I've found a few pictures of both, and the loaded tends to look greener in non-SA pics.

If the loaded model comes with the lock, does that make the mainspring housing (thanks) more difficult to change? Or does the lock come out easily, or can it stay underneath the housing without impacting the functioning of the pistol?

And a last question about the loaded. I know it comes with a coupon, but what is the coupon good for?

Thanks.

[1991]

All new Springfield 1911s come with a lock built into the mainspring housing. The lock is nothing more than a captive cylinder with an arch cut in the side; the mainspring cap normally moves through the arch in the cylinder, but turning the cylinder (locking the gun) prevents the mainspring cap from moving.

Pages 13-17 of the Springfield 1911 manual (http://www.springfield-armory.com/Manuals/1911man5.pdf) give a very clear explanation of how to remove, disassemble and reinstall the MSH.

You can buy an arched MSH with a lock from Springfield or a wide variety of MSH without locks from others. If you decide to buy a MSH without a lock, here is an excellent description (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=135279) of the process of changing types of MSH.

Loaded models (and all others, as far as I know) come with a coupon good for discounts on all sorts of Springfield accessories, from parts to clothing. Magazines are probably the best deal from the coupon, with really attractive prices.

[Kinny]

Originally posted by 1991
All new Springfield 1911s come with a lock built into the mainspring housing.

Not all. Springfield Custom Shop pistols don't have them.

[1991]

Originally posted by Kinny
Not all. Springfield Custom Shop pistols don't have them. Sorry, I wasn't aware of that from reading Springfield's website or looking at guns locally.

Do you have any idea why the Custom Shop pistols don't use the ILS?

[Kinny]

Originally posted by 1991
Sorry, I wasn't aware of that from reading Springfield's website or looking at guns locally.

Do you have any idea why the Custom Shop pistols don't use the ILS?

My guess is because customers who order pistols from the Custom Shop does not want ILS. It is something a customer wants that fits their need.

I know for sure the Pro does not have them because the FBI did not want them in their pistols.

[Baba Louie]

I would want to put on an extended beavertail grip, and an ambidextrous thumb safety, possibly a magazine release too. Are these mods I would be able to do myself, or would they require a gunsmith? Beavertail can be done with a jig, a file, some time and refinishing... usually something you might want a professional doing. The other two items you can easily do, but the ambi will require a new grip panel on the right side (typically).

As for changing out the sights, the rear sight... yeah... usually relatively pain free. The front sight requires a tenon staking tool/jig... another item you might want a professional to do.

BUT... you could do all of the above after buying tools, jig, etc...
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=916&title=1911+AUTO+FRONT+SIGHT+STAKER
above line for Brownell's staking tool
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=16454&title=1911+AUTO+BEAVERTAIL+FITTING+JIG
second link for Wilson beavertail jig

OR...

You could buy whatcha want to end up with, unless you're a hand's on kinda guy and plan on doing more in the future.

[Jammer Six]

Originally posted by ShakesTheKlown
What about the loaded model didn't you like that the milspec fixed?
Front cocking serrations, Novak sights, guide rod, ambi safety, and that ridiculous bump on the grip safety.

In order:

The front cocking serrations are ugly. YMMV. Furthermore, I shoot in a league that teaches (and requires) that you grip the slide at the rear when manipulating it, and after serving as an RO, and watching the stupid mistakes shooters make on the line, I agree completely that gripping the slide at the front is a foolish habit.

The Novak sights eliminate an option, without giving anything in return. You can't rack Novaks on your belt.

Against an illuminated target in low light, iron sights show up as a clean, crisp silhouette. I'm never going to take a shot at an unilluminated target, that's something you do in a combat zone, not in the U.S. It's a really good way to put a round in your wife. Better to practice with a Surefire than to carry night sights.

Therefore, iron sights that you can rack on your belt, properly dehorned, are a better choice than night sights that you can't.

The guide rod doesn't bear discussing. I replaced it with a GI setup, the entire time I owned the Loaded model, and only put it back when I sold it.

I carried the Loaded model for several months, and found that the ambi safety brushed off safe once. After that, I could never shake the feeling that it was going to happen again. A non-ambi safety can be taken off safe with a weak hand easily. Hardware solutions to training problems are almost always bad choices.

The bump on the grip safety hurts your hand after about 200 rounds in a session. Again, it's a hardware solution to a training problem. The right answer is a proper grip, in which case the grip safety isn't a problem. It's not a strength issue, it's a training issue. The weakest person I know can deactivate both grip safeties I own, easily. The issue is almost always where the second hand is.

I have one milspec that is stock, that I haven't made any changes to. The other, I've changed many things. The only two changes I would make to a SA milspec is to add a grip safety (not an ugly, drop in safety, but a real beavertail.) and a flat mainspring housing.

Note that these are the SA Milspec, as opposed to the SA WWII Milspec.

On a WWII, I would also change the sights. I like the larger sights.

I put up a site about adding a grip safety, it's not hard.

It's here. (http://www.oz.net/~jammer/Milspec/)

Where in Washington are you?

Good luck.

[ShakesTheKlown]

I feel the same about the front cocking serrations, but on the black stainless they don't look bad. The parkerized and SS look wrong, but the black SS works for me, without having the ambidextrous safety. Do many holsters have issues with ambi safeties? Or do most manufacturers leave space... I like the idea of the ambi safety since if I'm using it as a bump-in-the-night defense weapon, I could grab it off the nightstand with either hand comfortably. The black stainless only has the single safety, so if I decide that I would rather the ambi, it isn't a big deal to switch out.

What's wrong with the guide rod? I don't know much about non-glock internals, and haven't heard anything about it on the 1911.

I feel the same about cocking the pistol. From a straight physics view, pulling is stronger than pushing, so the rear of the slide offers a grip with less effort to properly rack the slide.

What do you mean the Novak sights eliminate an option? What do you mean about racking Novaks on your belt? As in racking the slide while holstered? Does nobody offer night sights which fit the Novak cut?

And finally, I'm down in Centralia for the time being. Sure wish we had a closer pistol range than tumwater. I live LITERALLY a block and a half from one that's boarded up... It mocks me ruthlessly.

I think I'm pretty much set on the black stainless full size at this point. I'd really rather not have to get my pistol refinished after just one mod, and the beavertail is something I'm pretty set on. Thanks for all your help guys.

[Kinny]

Originally posted by ShakesTheKlown
What's wrong with the guide rod? I don't know much about non-glock internals, and haven't heard anything about it on the 1911.


What a guide rod does is to help the recoil springs from binding, but I've never really even seen that happened on a 1911. Guide rod also prevents the operator from fieldstripping the pistol without tools.

Originally posted by ShakesTheKlown

What do you mean the Novak sights eliminate an option? What do you mean about racking Novaks on your belt? As in racking the slide while holstered? Does nobody offer night sights which fit the Novak cut?

This is an option where if one of your arm is disabled, you can use your rear sights to rack the slide against your belt. The no snag design from Novak prevents you from doing that. It is called no snag for a reason.

[10mm4ever]

The FLGR only complicates fieldstripping, if it's a 2 piece design. This whole thing about having a rear sight that facilitates "racking" against your pants, etc.......well, you will have to change the mag before you have to worry about racking the slide. The Novaks are a great non-snag design and if you try to rip those high profile sights out of your waistband,etc. and they get hungup on something you may not live long enough to worry about all that other stuff.

[Jammer Six]

One handed reloads are easy. There are several methods.

Carrying a weapon without a good holster is problematical for many reasons, and any decent holster won't have a problem with good sights.

I use a Sparks VM II, and it has no problem with sights.

Shakes, if you're ever up in this part of the world, let me know, and I'll take you to our range (Wade's) and we can chatter about the differences.

Good luck!

[ElevenO]

Go with the milspec, 5" barrel, government model. Forget all of the fancy doodads and, initially, don't change a thing unless you really, really, really, really, really have to. The most you would probably need to change (at least initially) would be maybe the sights or the grips (and even those changes are debatable). Use 230 grain ball and hollowpoint ammo and then practice, practice, practice, and practice some more until you become really confident and accustomed to your gun. At that point----and only at that point----should you seriously consider making any real "customized" changes to your gun. Until then, keep it pretty much bone stock.