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i_am_infinity
05-30-2006, 00:37
Read this article. The author, apparently do not know what he's talking about...Let's send this guy emails and let him know what we think about his comments and observation about people with guns. He's somewhat saying that we, the responsible gun owners, will be and can be the problem. sabi nga nya...u be the judge!! Read On!!



"Too many guns"





"The night is far spent, the day is at hand; let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light." Epistle of Paul to the Romans xii.II

WHEN President Ferdinand Marcos declared Martial Law in 1972, and ordered that ALL firearms in civilian hands and other non-military possessions be surrendered to the authorities under pain of arrest and imprisonment, the number of firearms collected, if my memory serves me right, totaled over half a million pieces.

Nearly all law-abiding citizens reluctantly and dutifully surrendered their firearms and expensive collections of hunting rifles, pistols, submachine guns and high-powered weapons, including revered Israeli Uzi assault rifles, to the military for safekeeping with official receipts duly made out and received.

Sad to say, as military abuses escalated, and martial law became more permanent, the "receipts" remained but the confiscated firearms vanished inexplicably from the arsenals, presumably pilfered or given to the new set of "collectors" in the armed forces and cronies of the conjugal dictatorship.

Conformably today, and obviously to be expected, Filipinos will never again succumb to voluntarily surrendering their firearms or accept confiscation as in 1972.

For these reasons, and since then, all police appeals for the surrender of, and apprehensions of, loose firearms have been a dismal failure, and exacerbated by the shortsighted and stupid suggestion that working journalists be allowed to carry guns for their own protection.

Truth to tell, the objective is to achieve a gunless society where the citizens will feel safe in the streets and in their homes. It is non-negotiable and urgent.

At present, there is probably enough firepower in the hands of citizens, private security guard agencies, the AFP, PNP, NPAs, and Muslim militants to start a civil war where coup plotters have so far failed to do the job.

Be that as it may, Philippine society must be made gunless, like other nations, where possession of unlicensed, illegal firearms and deadly weapons will be severely punished, and murder will be meted the death penalty with dispatch.

Thus, the burden of protecting the health, safety, and lives of citizens will rest solely on the AFP and PNP which initially will be easier said than done in view of the huge, unaccounted for, scattered whereabouts of arms caches in the hands of civilians, security guard agencies, Muslim secessionists and communist NPAs which the central authorities must either overwhelm or defeat, or successfully put under control.

This ideal cannot understandably be achieved overnight since the police organization itself must first be purged of scalawags, corrupt officers, and the PNP image and credibility redeemed and refurnished.

The police itself must become the role model of incorruptibility, uncompromising implementor of the rule of law, and respecter of the rights of the citizens before the PNP can achieve respectability. That is a plateful of expectations.

While it is always a gratifying, exhilarating, and welcomed experience to see gunless streets in cities and countries in the region, such as Singapore, Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, China, Australia, and New Zealand, the Philippines, at the moment, is one huge armed camp and ammunition dump just waiting for an accident to happen, and trigger civil chaos.

It is surmised that the sight of so many firearms in department stores, supermarkets, resorts, offices, hotels, restaurants, and residences must not only be traumatic to first-time visitors to this country but also for the Philippines, the culture of violence and uncontrolled display of firearms can become counter-productive to the image of a peaceful, hospitable, and friendly people that the government is trying to project here and abroad.

Hence, achieving a peaceful and gunless society is not only long overdue, and embarrassing, it is also a reflection of weak leadership, police corruption, political excesses, and the dismal failure to contain and disarm communist and Muslim rebels which is another story.

You be the judge. (For comments and views, please e-mail: chaff_fromthegrain@yahoo.com.ph)

mikey177
05-30-2006, 01:26
Did this article come out in a newspaper, and who was the author?

wingz
05-30-2006, 02:49
IMHO, I think he/she is talking more about unlicensed and illegal guns. The only parts that the author stated which might include "us"- responsible gun owners, is the amount of firepower the Philippine has, which can start a civil war. Maybe the author basically is pointing out the ironic call of the PNP for journalists to be armed; yet reluctantly punishing those caught possesing unlicensed FA.

PD1017
05-30-2006, 03:04
..."Hence, achieving a peaceful and gunless society is not only long overdue, and embarrassing, it is also a reflection of weak leadership, police corruption, political excesses, and the dismal failure to contain and disarm communist and Muslim rebels which is another story." :headscratch: :yawn:

horge
05-30-2006, 06:47
That piece of dreck is hopelessly riddled with non-sequiturs and illogic.

There's a lot of sidestepping, attempting to distinguish between
licensed firearms and ...whatever guns the author wants gone, but
the term Gunless Society is pretty familiar and very heavily loaded.
The article's complaint is really against the sheer number of guns
in the Philippines. Look:

"Thus, the burden of protecting the health, safety, and lives of citizens will rest solely on the AFP and PNP"

Hah! See?? SOLELY the AFP and PNP will protect me??? Ri-iiiight.
That's the sort of fevered thinking that would deny me my choice to
arm and defend myself and my family. What's the average response time
of the PNP to emergency situations again, even in Metro Manila?



Public Safety is correlated to firearms ownership?
The absence of privately-owned firearms is no guarantee of
peace, order and public safety. London would probably fit that
author's specs for a city with perfect Gun Control, yet there are
large sections of Earl's Court that I wouldn't want to be walking
through ever again. (Now I hear they're legislating Knife Control!)
Conversely... a large number of high-powered firearms spread out
through a population is no bar to peace and order, or Switzerland
would be a battlefield.

Foreign Investments are limited by firearms ownership too?
Aside from Switzerland, both Israel and the U.S. are pretty gun-heavy,
and I don't see anyone shying from investing there.
Blaming lean foreign investment on firearm ownership is a hell of a stretch.
If you want investors, then stop cheating them (Frapport-NAIA, anyone?).
We had good investment inflows before that fiasco, and lots of
privately-owned firearms too.

Even if crime rate is to be argued a bar to foreign investment,
violent crime CAN'T be defanged via legislating a 'Gunless Society'.
You see, criminals tend to uhm... err, ignore the law.


Crime flourishes in the absence of effective law enforcement.
Unrest simmers in the absence of fair judicial settlement of grievances.
In those senses, government fails as a control measure.
Worse, government fails in leadership.

The heat that drives these regrettable social humors smolders
within the popular psyche --that very same psyche which 'leadership'
is supposed to bend towards progress, if the population starts
tilting towards anarchy. But hey, that's still government
acting as control measure. The PROPER state of the popular psyche
should be towards domestic progress, but it isn't.

JMO, but the reason the Philippines is so underdeveloped is because
too many Filipinos are underdeveloped, like undisciplined children.
Too often, what guides their actions is neither what law prescribes
nor what morals dictate, but what they can get away with:

"Hindi naman tayo aarestohin, e bakit ba tayo nagpipigil?"
or some other low-speed, high-drag mindset like that.

Neither government corruption nor government ineptitude can hold down
an economy if the populace possesses a modicum of selfless discipline.
Does the author think First World governments aren't quite often
massively-corrupt and maniacally-inept?

A selflessly-disciplined population is what is needed.
That 'selfless discipline' goes by another name:
Patriotism.

Tragically, a lot of 'patriots' really aren't:
their priority is not saving the country, but saving face,
more concerned about the opinions and approval of foreigners,
than with solving the Philippines' many problems; those very
same problems that the author so regrettbly mis-attributes to
firearm ownership.

The author seems to want disarmed patriots, blind and suckling upon
the teat of an all-powerful State. I think I'd prefer patriots with
a healthy sense of independence and self-responsibility.

The author's email addy is brutally apt, in a twisted sense:
the article seems indeed like chaff from the grain.



:frown:
horge

quick
05-30-2006, 08:46
very very well put.


Originally posted by horge
Tragically, a lot of 'patriots' really aren't:

i think this line sums up the filipinos and hence the country really well.

i_am_infinity
05-30-2006, 10:41
Originally posted by mikey177
Did this article come out in a newspaper, and who was the author?

Manila Bulletin May 30...teka hanapin ko ung dyaryo and find the author's name...

ahtsay
05-30-2006, 11:30
Jay, I almost lost it just reading this. Wingz, you need to read up to the end of the article to really know what he's talking about. He means totally gunless.

"Thus, the burden of protecting the health, safety, and lives of citizens will rest solely on the AFP and PNP" - are you kidding??? Since when do we rely on any government agency for anything?? Can anyone honestly say that an efficient, hardworking, HONEST government agency exists?

"It is surmised that the sight of so many firearms in department stores, supermarkets, resorts, offices, hotels, restaurants, and residences must not only be traumatic to first-time visitors to this country but also for the Philippines, the culture of violence and uncontrolled display of firearms can become counter-productive to the image of a peaceful, hospitable, and friendly people that the government is trying to project here and abroad."

First of all I have never SEEN ANY firearms in department stores, supermarkets, resorts, offices, hotels, restaurants. As if naka lantag mga baril sa Pinas. The only ones I see are the paltik revolvers carried by the security guards, and they are hardly scary. They look like a chunk of steel and I wouldnt even be surprised if they don't fire at all. Chaka "TRAUMATIC"? Where does this guy live, on the moon? Wala bang baril sa TV, sa movies that when people see guns they get traumatized?

This is highly exagerated article that has no value. His arguments are not supported by any significant data nor is there much logic in it. For me he is expressing his opinion purely on the basis that he hates guns, nothing more. He asked the readers to "be the judge" but he only presented one side of the story. How can someone be the judge if the evidence presented is totally one sided? The reason for the demise of this country is because of people like him. Being a writer (or something) he has the power to change the opinions of people who does not know any better and take for a fact anything that is printed. Basta naka print, kala nila totoo, geez!!! Anyways, this is all I have to say about this. I'm not going to waste more time on him. As you know Jay, I'm pressed for time. Hinde ko lang matiis ito pare eh. hehehe!!!! Ciao people!


:supergrin:

jimbullet
05-30-2006, 18:26
I think the creedo still sticks - when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. The citizenry should have a right to protect itself. The PNP does not have enough manpower.

i_am_infinity
05-30-2006, 20:27
ung author nyan kasi kasamahan ni Nandy Pacheco (Gunless Society Campaigner)

hindi ko mahanap na ung dyaryo pero i'll still try...

depend on the PNP?? I DON'T THINK SO!! Pasensya na kung may tiga PNP dito but i know there are a handful of police officers who are not like that but most of them are not to be trusted!!

This reminds me of a saying..."everything rises and falls with leadership" bulok ang ugat, bulok din ang bunga!!

The gov't wants to outlaw all the guns para ung mga pinapa-patay nila na militants hindi maka laban sa kanila, they're afraid of these people kasi they are the same people who took erap out of office and the present gov't want to eliminate the threat, so they wipe them out!

tingnan nyo ung kaso ng TMG na binaril ung 3 SUSPECTED carjackers, they just wanted to silence them so they wiped them out. buti na lang nakunan ng video if not the case would not move nor would it have any progress in court.

I guess this guy wants the impossible...elimninate the bad fruits of PNP AFP?? How??? eh pati mga leader nila bulok it will always be like that..it's already a System!!!

We should all gather the politicians, gov't employees, and mga corrupt na tao and bring them all to luneta and let's have an IPSC match with live targets!!!:supergrin: :supergrin:

toxic
05-31-2006, 02:55
Thats B.S.
maybe the author will run for office or perhaps waiting for handouts from AFAD.

Anyone watch the news last night..There's this PNP spokes person who said
" a Gun Ban" might be in effect in hot areas coz lots of media people and Militant groups are getting killed/executed.

blueeagle
05-31-2006, 05:05
I_am_Infinity, I second the motion!!!!:soap:

mikey177
05-31-2006, 06:34
So Horge, did you send your comments to the guy's email address? Someone has to set the record straight.

charlie-xray
05-31-2006, 12:29
What the??!!!???

I'll him/her to shove it up his arse, let him/her try walking down Quiapo at the dead of the night and let's see if his/her foresight would change. That's why I LOVE TEXAS, gun ownership is a RIGHT and not a Priviledge like in our country where the priviledge is always on the side of the RICH and POWERFUL.

Hell no, magka martial law man ulit at ipasoli ang baril ko hinding-hindi mangyayari.

charlie-xray
05-31-2006, 12:34
I say let's LOBBY for a gun ownership initiative kaysa sa CHA-CHA na yan.

Originally posted by charlie-xray
What the??!!!???

I'll him/her to shove it up his arse, let him/her try walking down Quiapo at the dead of the night and let's see if his/her foresight would change. That's why I LOVE TEXAS, gun ownership is a RIGHT and not a Priviledge like in our country where the priviledge is always on the side of the RICH and POWERFUL.

Hell no, magka martial law man ulit at ipasoli ang baril ko hinding-hindi mangyayari.

horge
05-31-2006, 17:02
Originally posted by mikey177
So Horge, did you send your comments to the guy's email address? Someone has to set the record straight.

Yep, however brief a version of said comments.
I however hold little hope of setting the author straight.
As for the righting the 'record', well...
he's the one with the bullhorn.

mikey177
05-31-2006, 19:26
Originally posted by horge
...As for the righting the 'record', well...
he's the one with the bullhorn.

Yes, it is regrettably true that a lot of journalists have a pronounced and vocal dislike for guns. The likes of Conrado de Quiros of the Inquirer and Max Soliven of the Phil. Star come to mind.

It is also rare that one gets to read news items about a licensed gun owner successfully defending himself against criminals with the help of his firearm. Gun-toting characters who make it to the front page are the likes of Rolito Go and Ryan Jaworski :frown:

cebuboy
06-03-2006, 11:05
"an armed society is a polite society" i forgot who said that:)

mtho
06-03-2006, 11:30
Originally posted by cebuboy
"an armed society is a polite society" i forgot who said that:)

that was quoted by connor in american handgunner. I agree! and that is what they have observed in the US where some societies welcomes guns and other despises it.

horge
06-03-2006, 16:50
"an armed society is a polite society"

That was Robert E. Heinlein, noted author.

He was wrong.
A polite society is a polite society, and guns are just tools/toys.
Gun owners can't yell that "Guns don't kill, people do!", and then
turn round and claim that guns generate polite behavior. That's BS.

He was wrong, because if widespread possession of arms was a sure
ticket to Pleasantville, then Somalia and Iraq would be next to Paradise.

He was wrong, because the quote assumes rational perception of the
risk involved in tangling with an armed individual. When discourtesy
or even violence is fuelled by psychosis, lack of intelligence,
economic desperation, or passion --rationality isn't exactly
front and center.

While psychosis and low intelligence can be weeded out, long term,
in firearm-enhanced natural selection, desperate poverty and passion
should not and perhaps CAN not. The mechanics would be terrifying for
the former, and for the latter, the outcome.

JM2P

jimbullet
06-03-2006, 20:03
It depends on how an individual acquired his FA. If it were illegally acquired, then its bound to be used for an illegal activity, which we should denounce.

Its a pitty that everytime there has been any crime involving a firearm, which are mostly unlicensed guns by the way, are taken against those law abiding gun owners.

Its kinda like if you had a dozen dogs and a 13th dog (stray) came and bite ya, you punished all the dozen dogs by locking them up in your storage room....

So guns can kill, so does knives, cars and overdose of sleeping pills:rollsmiley:

True, theres a lot of factors involved but basically, its the man holding control of the weapon

isuzu
06-06-2006, 20:30
I think the author is on drugs!:supergrin:

PMMA97
06-07-2006, 01:50
Originally posted by isuzu
I think the author is on drugs!:supergrin:

If not, he better start taking some meds. :)

pogi
06-07-2006, 05:58
Isuzu,

The author is NOT on drugs. Actually, he is a "practical shooter" na madalas KULELAT sa mga matches. Kaya hayun...sa GALIT ng KUMAG sa SARILI niya na PAGIGING NGONGO...IDINAMAY PATI GUN OWNERSHIP.
UNGAS!

horge
06-07-2006, 08:16
Originally posted by pogi
Isuzu,

The author is NOT on drugs. Actually, he is a "practical shooter" na madalas KULELAT sa mga matches. Kaya hayun...sa GALIT ng KUMAG sa SARILI niya na PAGIGING NGONGO...IDINAMAY PATI GUN OWNERSHIP.
UNGAS!

Eeeeee... but that'd be pathetic.
You're 100% sure about his identity?

pogi
06-07-2006, 19:04
Horge,
Nope! Just joking! Just wanna lighten up ALL the accelerating heat cum hatred brewing in our chests.
Hope he isues rebuttals. And how I wish I could meet him. I need a "brighter" sight-image for me to call shots at A-zone and his face surely will be a sweet-sighting-focus for me to land in #50.
Heheheheheheh!

isuzu
06-07-2006, 23:47
Originally posted by pogi
Isuzu,

The author is NOT on drugs. Actually, he is a "practical shooter" na madalas KULELAT sa mga matches. Kaya hayun...sa GALIT ng KUMAG sa SARILI niya na PAGIGING NGONGO...IDINAMAY PATI GUN OWNERSHIP.
UNGAS!

Well, he should have shut up and practiced!:supergrin:

PD1017
06-08-2006, 03:06
chaff_fromthegrain@yahoo.com.ph Manahimik ka!

Di kaya maraming masiraan ng bait pag nagkaroon na TGB.

i_am_infinity
06-08-2006, 05:22
Hector R. R. Villanueva ang name nya...i think :):)