Larry Vickers

[Jeff S.]

http://www.vickerstactical.com/VT1911.htm



Larry Vickers, via his website, has revealed the collaboration between himself and NightHawk. At $2,875, this pistol seems rather pricey.

[liliysdad]

2875 isnt bad for a spec'd Nighthawk.

Myself, I would rather have the 10-8 Nighthawk tuned by Yam, but thats me.

[matt3gun]

arent nighthawks already tricked out, for what u pay for them id hope so. why would u need one more tricked out? what does he add to them that makes them even more $?

[Jeff S.]

Originally posted by matt3gun
arent nighthawks already tricked out, for what u pay for them id hope so. why would u need one more tricked out? what does he add to them that makes them even more $?


That's what I thought, as well. There are some additional benefits, such as an integral plunger tube, spare extractor, strider grips, and other such details. I guess it's up to the buyer to determine if he's willing to pay the extra 600 dollars for a Vickers NightHawk, rather than just a "regular" Talon.

[Rob96]

Originally posted by liliysdad
2875 isnt bad for a spec'd Nighthawk.

Myself, I would rather have the 10-8 Nighthawk tuned by Yam, but thats me.

Have to remember who taught and mentored Hilton.;)

[happyguy]

Originally posted by matt3gun
arent nighthawks already tricked out, for what u pay for them id hope so. why would u need one more tricked out? what does he add to them that makes them even more $?

Braggin' rights.

Regards,
Happyguy:)

[liliysdad]

Rob, I havent forgotten.......

I just prefer the direction Hilton has taken with the knowledge Vicker shared.

[10mm4ever]

Didnt Vickers and Hackathorn both say they were going to hang up their 1911's when the HK .45 becomes available?

[liliysdad]

Well, since Vickers is on the HK Payroll, that would make sense.

The same has been said about every new 45 to hit scene in the last 20 years. Didnt happen then, wonthappen now. The HK45 is nothing more than a USP45 with a new dress on. I still think I will pass, even though the USP is a fine gun.

[Rob96]

Originally posted by liliysdad
Well, since Vickers is on the HK Payroll, that would make sense.

The same has been said about every new 45 to hit scene in the last 20 years. Didnt happen then, wonthappen now. The HK45 is nothing more than a USP45 with a new dress on. I still think I will pass, even though the USP is a fine gun.

From what I have read, Vickers is no longer with HK. He is now his own company, Vickers Tactical, and apparently back to 1911s.

[10mm4ever]

Be kinda ironic if he failed to sell any more of his fine 1911's, because "we" decided to hang up the 1911 and wait for the HK .45 as well (just to follow suit with one of the masters of course).

[Rob96]

Saying he was in bed with HK would be to harsh. He was merely contracted by HK as an engineer to consult with them on two weapon projects. I shouldn't have even said he was back to the 1911, as he probably never left it.

[Rinspeed]

Originally posted by liliysdad
2875 isnt bad for a spec'd Nighthawk.

Myself, I would rather have the 10-8 Nighthawk tuned by Yam, but thats me.


Hell for $2800 you could almost have a real custom.

[Robert McLeod]

Originally posted by Rinspeed
Hell for $2800 you could almost have a real custom.



You could not touch a Vickers 1911 for $2,800.00.

[matt3gun]

IMO 2800$ for a handgun is crazy. not saying i dont have a nice 1200$ caspian build or .38super goldcup, but for 2800 bucks i could make a nice downpayment on a new mode of transport( 2 wheels). but then again if i had the money..who knows..

[liliysdad]

Originally posted by Rinspeed
Hell for $2800 you could almost have a real custom.


Not one Id care to have. 3k isnt going to get you close to a Vickers, Yam, or Berryhill custom...

[Rob96]

Originally posted by liliysdad
Not one Id care to have. 3k isnt going to get you close to a Vickers, Yam, or Berryhill custom...

The only problem is that Hilton and Larry, don't know about Berryhill, aren't accpeting new work. For them, the next best thing is a spec'd piece that they made arrangements with someone to produce.

[happyguy]

All you NEED is a gun that is reliable and accurate. Those can be had for way less than $2000 and they will last just as long as one of the super expensive customs .

You may however, WANT a gun that is precisely fit by the hand of an artisan and inspires pride of ownership and confers braggin' rights.

My Toyota will take me anywhere I care to go and while that's all I need, I can certainly appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into a Rolls Royce.

BTW, my Toyota has over 400k on it and the engine has never been opened up and it doesn't use a drop of oil. :supergrin:

If I owned a Rolls I would be afraid to take it out of the garage for fear of getting a scratch on it.

When I look at the guns I actually own, and their sorry outward condition, I just can't imagine doing that to a $2000+ pistol.

Sorry for the ramble.

Regards,
Happyguy:)

[happyguy]

I'm bored, so I looked at the specs for that LV Nighthawk and here are my comments. Remember I'm really a tactical nobody. I'm just a an old fart who shoots pistols sometimes and knows what he likes for his personal guns so please don't take offense. Also, I'm pretty cheap. :supergrin:

Caspian Slide and Frame (I prefer forged main components)
Front Grasping Grooves - Caspian Enhanced National Match Style (can take them or leave them)
Ball end mill relief cut on front sides of slide (haven't got a clue)
5 inch Match Grade Barrel and Bushing - crown of muzzle flush with bushing (Main cause of FTF and FTRB in 1911 pistols especially if the ammo is out of spec. Match Grade barrels are for shooting matches.)
Low Mount Novak or Low Mount Heinie sights standard - shooter specifies (Good)
Dovetail Front Sight - serrated and roll pinned in place (Good)
3-Dot Tritium Night Sights (If you like them)
Vickers/Yam Hard Use Trigger (No experience with this)
25 LPI Checkered Frontstrap (Prefer grip tape) :shocked:
Integral Tactical Magwell (Hate magwells on carry guns)
Flat Mainspring Housing, checkered with a recessed lanyard loop (I prefer grooved mainspring housings, they don't wear holes in your clothes)
Integral Plunger Tube (Hard to fix if damaged)
Spare fitted extractor (Great idea)
Top of Slide Serrated (Collects dirt)
Rear of Slide Serrated - 40 LPI (Collects more dirt)
Beavertail grip safety with pad for positive disengagement (Good)
Match hammer (What is this?)
4 lb trigger pull (Good)
Slotted grip screws (My Colts came with these too!)
Strider gunner grips custom fitted with beveled edges in green, black, or coyote brown (No experience with these)
Carry bevel package (Wish my Colt came with this)
Visual 'on fire' indicator (Not needed)
Extended Thumb Safety (I like'm)
Tactical Extended Mag Release (I like these also)
Reliability Package to Vickers Tactical specs (Good, based on reputation of Nighthawk and Vickers)
Black Permacoat finish (Oh, another painted gun)
Vickers Tactical logo (Ooohaaah!)
Special 'LV' serial number prefix (OK)
Shipped with 2 magazines, test target, and Certificate of Authenticity :notworthy:

The Vickers 1911 will be the premier model in the Nighthawk Custom product line. It embodies several improvements that were brought to the market by Caspian for 1911 builders at the request and direct input from Larry Vickers. It also signifies the ultimate accomplishment in Larry’s 1911 pistolsmithing, shooting, and instructing career. This is the best serious use custom 1911 pistol made by anyone at any price. Stay tuned for an upcoming article in Tactical Tips outlining in detail all of the modifications and reasons behind them.

There you have it, no need to look any further.

Pardon my cynicism.

Edited to add: For $1445 you can get a Yost built 1* Enhanced that will do anything that any other 1911 on the planet will do and last just as long, IMHO.

Regards,
Happyguy:)

[Robert McLeod]

Originally posted by happyguy
5 inch Match Grade Barrel and Bushing - crown of muzzle flush with bushing (Main cause of FTF and FTRB in 1911 pistols especially if the ammo is out of spec. Match Grade barrels are for shooting matches.)


Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one. The main cause of FTRB on a match barrels would be impropper throathing of the barrel. If a match barrel is fit properly it will do absolutely nothing to reduce reliability and it will greatly increase the longevity of your pistol.

[happyguy]

Originally posted by Robert McLeod
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one. The main cause of FTRB on a match barrels would be impropper throathing of the barrel. If a match barrel is fit properly it will do absolutely nothing to reduce reliability and it will greatly increase the longevity of your pistol.

IMO the tighter chamber dimensions of a match barrel will make it much less forgiving of out of spec ammo as well as ammo that has been dropped in the dirt, or gunk in the chamber from not having been cleaned.

Again IMO, generous chamber dimensions are one of the main reasons that Glocks and AK's seem to run on forever after everything else has choked.

Regards,
Happyguy:)

[Robert McLeod]

Originally posted by happyguy
IMO the tighter chamber dimensions of a match barrel will make it much less forgiving of out of spec ammo as well as ammo that has been dropped in the dirt, or gunk in the chamber from not having been cleaned.

Again IMO, generous chamber dimensions are one of the main reasons that Glocks and AK's seem to run on forever after everything else has choked.

Regards,
Happyguy:)

I agree, a good pistolsmith can fit your chamber dimensions however you want as long as it is within proper spec. The advantage of the match barrels is the oversize lugs that allow a more consistant lockup, this increases the longevity of the pistol as well as mechanical accuracy.

[ElConquistador]

There are dozens of gunsmiths that could build you the 1911 of your dreams. Gunsmithing is not rocket surgery, a 1911 will run or it won't, it doesn't matter who's name is on it.

For whatever reason there are a few who have reached a sort of "Cult" status, Jardine, Yost, Vickers, etc. I'm sure they build fine guns but there are plenty others out there quietly building just as good of stuff without all the hoopla, 1*, tactical operating, ex-badass, covert garbage and for less money and wait.

Caspian has been making the "Tactical" race ready frame and the integral plunger tube for a while now. If it was at Vickers’ request it wasn't for the Nighthawk project. I don't care for either "feature" but that's just me.

[Rinspeed]

Originally posted by ElConquistador
There are dozens of gunsmiths that could build you the 1911 of your dreams. Gunsmithing is not rocket surgery, a 1911 will run or it won't, it doesn't matter who's name is on it.

For whatever reason there are a few who have reached a sort of "Cult" status, Jardine, Yost, Vickers, etc. I'm sure they build fine guns but there are plenty others out there quietly building just as good of stuff without all the hoopla, 1*, tactical operating, ex-badass, covert garbage and for less money and wait.



Very good point and I have been thinking the same thing. Also there are a bunch of very good smiths that have been doing their thing every day for 15 - 20 years. Why there are a couple of part time smiths that are put on such a pedestal is beyond me.

[quantico]

Originally posted by ElConquistador
There are dozens of gunsmiths that could build you the 1911 of your dreams. Gunsmithing is not rocket surgery, a 1911 will run or it won't, it doesn't matter who's name is on it.

For whatever reason there are a few who have reached a sort of "Cult" status, Jardine, Yost, Vickers, etc. I'm sure they build fine guns but there are plenty others out there quietly building just as good of stuff without all the hoopla, 1*, tactical operating, ex-badass, covert garbage and for less money and wait.


The 1911 will run or it won't ... is not really a valid line of thinking... A good gunsmith can make a pistol shoot more acurately and fit you better and have a trigger pull that makes you shoot faster ... those can be real issues in the real world.


I agree that there are many good gun builders out there... I have found Don Williams to be one that is impressive. The gun that he custom made for me is the best gun that I own. Some builders are know for cosmetics... some for function and some for both...

[Jim Watson]

Well, if you want the 10-8 trademark and H. Yam's approval, Nighthawk is doing one that way, too.
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=custom1911&Number=25048

The only "ordinary" Nighthawk I have seen is a nice gun regularly shot and carried by a competitor and instructor of my acquaintance. I would as soon have one as any other boutique pistol. But I do not see the sense of them getting a good reputation and then putting somebody else's name on their guns.

Ref "match barrels." A true match barrel is manufactured oversize so it can be fitted to a specific gun. But there is no such thing as a "match CHAMBER." I have the SAAMI specifications in a NRA Handloading publication and although they give .45 ACP and .45 ACP National Match separate pages, the chamber dimensions and tolerances are THE SAME! Undersize chambers in high dollar guns and barrels is a gimmick to let them advertise a quarter inch smaller Ransom Rest target at the expense of reliability. Undersize chambers in production line guns is probably due to trying to get one more shift out of a worn reamer. Either way, they are a major source of malfunctions in otherwise sound 1911s.

[Rob96]

Originally posted by quantico
The 1911 will run or it won't ... is not really a valid line of thinking... A good gunsmith can make a pistol shoot more acurately and fit you better and have a trigger pull that makes you shoot faster ... those can be real issues in the real world.


I agree that there are many good gun builders out there... I have found Don Williams to be one that is impressive. The gun that he custom made for me is the best gun that I own. Some builders are know for cosmetics... some for function and some for both...

I think the best endorsement of a true Vicker's gun is when you have the "top" people in the 1911 world, Richard Hienie for example. With a Vicker's gun you are not only getting a good looking piece, but one that had a huge amount of labor put into it.

[Ricky T]

This is not directed toward the Nighthawk collaboration but it best describe the value of a real Vickers custom 1911. Someone said it best in another forum and I'm pasting it here:

"What makes a Vickers special is that, if it's real, you have the equivalent of a samurai sword, owned by a well renowned samurai, WHO ACTUALLY MADE HIS OWN SWORDS.

Everyone else, and I mean every single 1911 maker from the highest of the high presentation guns, to the blackest of the black ninja SWAT guy who cranks out 2-3 guns a year out of his garage, will never have the provenance of Larry Vickers.

Mr. Vickers was a Delta operator, who was making 1911s while still in Delta for other members of Delta. Not only that, but in the SF community he was highly respected for his knowledge of small-arms. A 1911 that came before or after that one, very likely saw action with a Delta member. It is also highly unlikely the 1911 community will ever see that situation again. If Mr. Vickers does start making 1911s, they will always be made "post-Delta". Same quality, but not quite the provenance.

That is what makes your Larry Vickers 1911 very, very special. Not any of the tangibles of a particular gun.

I have one other item of note. Last year, 2005, a Larry Vickers 1911 came up for sale on Gunsamerica. It was high dollar. Most high dollar items on gunsamerica sit for a while. The potential market for that is somewhat smaller then the average 1911 owner. Especially if it's a gun that (maybe) won't ever be shot. It was listed for $6500.00 if my mind serves.

It sold in less than 5 days."

[happyguy]

I don't hang out with the Delta guys but they came through the Philippinnes back in '89 or '90 while I was there enjoying the coup attempt. I never saw any of them with a 1911 the whole time they were there. Of course times change.

Regards,
Happyguy:)