Glock Trigger Pull...HELP!!! [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Glock Trigger Pull...HELP!!!


Hank Frank
06-05-2006, 20:16
For the past several months I've read many of the threads on how to improve the trigger pull of a Glock. I've tried them on many Glocks, but always with the same result... 5 lbs. I'm trying to achieve approx. a 3 1/2 lb pull that is crisp, as close to a 1911 as possible. (The guns will be used for competition, and not carry)

I've done the 25 cent polish job, used various connectors from Glock, LWD, and Scherer. I've bent the connector and even made cuts in it. I've raised the hole in the trigger bar for the stock trigger spring. Tried a reduced power striker spring, and cut off the end of the striker at a 45 degee angle where it contacts the "sear".

I don't want to sent my guns off to have them done professionally because of the cost and the shipping charges. Plus, it hurts me not to beable to accomplish what others do routinely.

I hate to give up on these guns and resort back to my 1911's and Sigs. However, after awhile beating your head against the wall, it begins to hurt.

I have attempted to buy one of the 2 lb Triggerkits, but no one ever answers the phone, and if you leave a message, I've never gotten a return call.

Any suggestions? Thanking everyone in advance.

D. Manley
06-05-2006, 21:59
Ralph Sotelo (Triggerkit.com (http://www.triggerkit.com/categoryNavigationDocument.hg?welcome=1&product*******Style5&layout=ruby&category*******Style1)) is pretty much a 1-man, web-based show. I would suggest contacting him through email rather than phone.

I can tell you that his kit performed precisely as advertised for me and for purely competition or fun use it's great...it is NOT however, something you would want to have in a defense weapon.

M338
06-06-2006, 02:31
This is just a thought, but after all you have already done maybe there is something else preventing you from improving the trigger pull. I tend to get a little carried away when I do things, but when I do my triggers on Glocks, here are some other things I also do.
I check surfaces on every piece for burrs and rough spots. I use a small file in the pin hole in the trigger, some have rough spots. I also flat file the sides of the trigger where it contacts the inside of the frame and the area inside the frame where the trigger contacts. My 36 had numerous areas that had imperfections. After doing the .25 trigger job, I started working on these areas and it made quite a difference. I don't know if this is whats causing you problems or not, but it might be worth looking at. Good luck

Bren
06-06-2006, 05:40
If that's what you want, have you reduced the striker spring power? That's where most of the trigger pull resistance comes from. The 3.5 connector changes the angle that the trigger bar moves to break the shot, but not the weight it has to pull back - only the striker spring does that.

I've shot Glocks with trigger pulls that were probably under 2 lbs., but I recently took all of that stuff out of my Glocks after finding out that it is much easier to shoot well with the 5.5 lb. connector and a completely stock trigger, if you use the right technique, so I'm not going for a light trigger anymore, except maybe in my "open" Glock 22. It has a very light 2-3 lb. trigger due to a 3.5 connector, reduced power striker spring and Glockmeister competition trigger spring - otherwise the internal parts are stock and unpolished.

Hank Frank
06-06-2006, 06:09
D. Manley: I will try contacting Ralph Soleto via email. If the kit is as he claims, I'll be very happy. I can always up the trigger pull if I feel it's too light.

M338: I will go through and check for burrs and rough spots. I can see this being the case on a couple Glocks, but the possibility of it happening on 10, is remote. There is a common thread (problem) that exists on all these guns to yield a 5 lb pull +/-, after having done all the modifications....I'm overlooking something.

I just thought of something. I presume you messure the trigger pull on a Glock by just putting the RCBS trigger scale hook on the trigger just below its second pin, and pull straight back. Then look at the reading.

Hank Frank
06-06-2006, 06:46
Bren: I have tried a Wolf reduced power striker spring, and it does help. I would prefer to keep the standard spring, just to insure proper ignition.

Perhaps, I need to go with the stock Glock set-up, and learn the "right technique" as you have done. I'm planning to take a 2 day course in July put on by "TDSA". This is what they teach...I think.

Bren
06-06-2006, 07:08
Originally posted by Hank Frank
Perhaps, I need to go with the stock Glock set-up, and learn the "right technique" as you have done. I'm planning to take a 2 day course in July put on by "TDSA". This is what they teach...I think.
EXACTLY what I'm talking about - DO NOT reduce your trigger pull before that class, or else you will just have to go back to stock to make any decent improvement. I've had TDSA AP1 (twice) and AP2 and that's where I learned that I can shoot the Glock better dead stock than with the light trigger - in fact, my wife had to take the stock 3.5 connector out of her G34 and put in a 5.5 - it's just too hard to find the break point at high speed with a mushy, reduced power connector - if somebody offered a 6.5 with a sharper break I'd buy it right now.

Duck of Death
06-06-2006, 09:27
Look at the engagement surfaces under magnification. They are rough, the .25 makes them shiny but still rough. Remove the plating and stone the surfaces smooth then polish. Reduce the mass of the firing pin and cut 7 coils off the OEM firing pin spring. My latest trigger job on a G26 is 2lbs and cost $ 13.50, the price of a Scherer connector. All the springs are still OEM. I don't drill a new hole but rather straighten the arm where the trigger spring attaches to a 90* angle.

The 45* cut on the firnig pin is good, but don't forget it is an engagement surface both it and the sear must be smooth.

Hank Frank
06-06-2006, 15:20
Duck of Death:
I will look at the surfaces with a loup. Either way, I will stone them, and then repolish. I'm not sure how one should reduce the mass of the striker, but I'll do some research and hopefully I'll see how it's done. I just tried to straighten out the arm where the trigger spring attaches....surprise. This is some tempered metal. (I believe I read one of your posts before and the metal needs to be torched)

Question...Once you remove 7 coils off the factory striker spring, do you stretch it back to its original length?

Well, I'm off to try to make this combination work. If one hears a sudden burst of joy, you know I was successful.

gary newport
06-06-2006, 15:35
Originally posted by Bren
if somebody offered a 6.5 with a sharper break I'd buy it right now.

Ever try the 8 lb. connector? (I haven't--and don't plan to, being a fan of the 4.5 lb. "minus" connector, but force/distance graphs I've seen in a Glock buyer's guide indicate the "plus" connector gives a REALLY sharp break!)

Duck of Death
06-06-2006, 15:56
I use a cut off disk and a Dremel. Make longitudinal cuts on the fat part of the striker. That's the part near the striker engagement arm and under the plastic sleeve. Reduce the arm where you made the 45* cut by 1/2, it doesn't need to be that thick.

Remember having as light a striker spring is the heart of the trigger job. The only to do this and maintain reliability is to reduce the striker mass.

The bird's head where the trigger bar engages the connector and the connector must be smooth as well as the sear and the striker arm.
I polish everything that rubs, even if it rubs plastic. eg. I take the trigger off the trigger bar polish and dress up the hole. And the drop safety both sides on the left and the bottom of the right.

I carry my Glocks w/handloads using CCI primers. They are 100% reliable.

The problem w/the 25 center is that folks are polishing a rough surface. What they end up with is a shiny rough surface.

Those who use a Q-tip to polish are spitting into the wind.

Hank Frank
06-06-2006, 17:41
Duck of Death:

Just returned from the workshop. Did everything you suggested except for reducing the mass of the striker, which I'll try later, having read your last post explaining how to do it.

I wound up with a 3 1/2 lb trigger pull that felt pretty close to my 1911's. I was in heaven...and there was no pre-travel. However, somehow I managed to defeat the trigger safety and the firing pin safety. (The trigger bar is not returning forward far enough) I'll play with it more tonight afer I return from dinner.

I can understand now that what you've said in your last post is the secret to obtaining a good trigger job. Thank you for your input, and to everyone else.

Bren
06-06-2006, 19:29
Originally posted by gary newport
Ever try the 8 lb. connector? (I haven't--and don't plan to, being a fan of the 4.5 lb. "minus" connector, but force/distance graphs I've seen in a Glock buyer's guide indicate the "plus" connector gives a REALLY sharp break!)
I was thinking about it, just haven't gotten around to doing it yet.

Duck of Death
06-07-2006, 08:06
If you want to further refine the trigger put a pin in the trigger housing(on the side where the ejector is) and eliminate the pre travel. I use a cut off brass upholstery tack. The pin must be far enough forward so both wings of the drop safety work. Indent the pin slightly so it doesn't rub on the frame. Then reslot the trigger safety where in enters the frame. Now the pre travel is eliminated and all 3 safeties will work. You can look up thru the mag well to verify that the firing pin safety works.

das028
06-07-2006, 08:21
Originally posted by Bren
If that's what you want, have you reduced the striker spring power? That's where most of the trigger pull resistance comes from. The 3.5 connector changes the angle that the trigger bar moves to break the shot, but not the weight it has to pull back - only the striker spring does that.

I've shot Glocks with trigger pulls that were probably under 2 lbs., but I recently took all of that stuff out of my Glocks after finding out that it is much easier to shoot well with the 5.5 lb. connector and a completely stock trigger, if you use the right technique, so I'm not going for a light trigger anymore, except maybe in my "open" Glock 22. It has a very light 2-3 lb. trigger due to a 3.5 connector, reduced power striker spring and Glockmeister competition trigger spring - otherwise the internal parts are stock and unpolished.


"3.5 connector, reduced power striker spring and Glockmeister competition trigger spring"

I really liked this setup as well, but I found that my trigger saftey would not engage on its own with this setup.

Do all three of your safties work with this setup?

Vanek Custom
06-07-2006, 08:34
Hank,

Where in Missouri are you located? I make it up to Joplin once in awhile and I would be glad to let you try a drop-in trigger if you would like... You seem to understand how the safeties work, but be very careful trying to eliminate the pre-travel, reduced is difficult enough.

Duck of Death
06-07-2006, 09:09
Enough pre travel must remain for both sides of the drop safety and the firing pin safety to work. Be especially aware of the right side of the drop safety, if the right wing of the cruciform sear is off the plastic, when the trigger is reset, the sear can be moved down and the weapon can fire.

Hank Frank
06-07-2006, 10:00
Charlie V.
Thanks for the offer. I'm in the other end of the state, just outside of St. Louis. Duck of Death and others have been very helpful. I feel with all the info they have furnished, I'll come up with a solution.

Duck of Death:
Thanks again for the information, I don't understand the reslotting of the trigger safety??? Could you explain? I do see and understand the rest.

Yesterday, when I bent the trigger spring tab forward, I went past 90" by just a few degrees. I believe this prevented the trigger bar from going forward...it did take out the pre-travel, although neither the trigger safety nor the firing pin safety were operable. Don't think the drop safety was either. Trigger felt great, just like a 1911, and everything else appeared operable. Perhaps this is a new way to overcome pre-travel.

Later today when I get back, I'll rebend the tab a little bit back to 90* (how you instructed)...and see what happens.

10mm4ever
06-07-2006, 12:33
Go with the Sotelo trigger. Everything else is a waste of time & money.

Duck of Death
06-07-2006, 13:20
Here's a file I made on how I limit take up:

Eliminating trigger take up(ONLY TO BE DONE TO A RANGE/COMPETITION GUN):

Make sure the Glock is unloaded
1. Remove the slide from the frame.
2. Move the trigger forward so that the right wing of the cruciform sear (facing forward) is slightly on the right hand portion of the drop safety.
4. Drill a tiny hole in the ejector housing in front of the left drop safety arm of the cruciform sear.
5. Counter sink the hole so the slide doesn't rub on the pin.
6. Insert the pin and put the slide on and cock the striker.
7. Pull the trigger safety away from the trigger and mark it where it meets the frame( this is in back of the trigger).
8. Reslot the trigger safety at the mark.

Take up will be minimized and all 3 safeties will work.

I don't go past 90* on the trigger spring arm. If you do use the arm to limit take up don't go so far ahead as to defeat the firing pin and drop safety. Since you're limiting the forward movement of the trigger the back of the trigger safety slot must be deepened so it will clear the frame when the trigger is pulled.

(QUOTE)
10mm4ever
Go with the Sotelo trigger. Everything else is a waste of time & money.
(UNQUOTE)

You seem to have missed what I posted earlier, my Glocks have 2lb no take up triggers with all safeties working and the cost was $13.50. That was the cost of a Scherer connector. I don't call that a waste of $$. As far as time goes how do you put a price on learning how a Glock works and how to work on them?

Hank Frank
06-08-2006, 06:37
I finished the gun last night, and it's fantastic! I used the info submitted by "Duck of Death" and it works. Thank you for taking the time to post the instructions. I presently have a 3 1/2 lb trigger pull (which is what I want), and very nominal pre-traval. It's like shooting a Glock with the reset technique, and not having to hold the trigger back. If anyone at Glock is listening, you should offer a Glock with 2 triggers....the original for carry and one like this for competion/fun. I know so many people who won't own a Glock because of its triggr. I can't wait to let these people try this gun.

I plan to get out to the range this afternoon and give it a try.

Bren
06-08-2006, 07:35
Originally posted by Hank Frank
I finished the gun last night, and it's fantastic! I used the info submitted by "Duck of Death" and it works. Thank you for taking the time to post the instructions. I presently have a 3 1/2 lb trigger pull (which is what I want), and very nominal pre-traval. It's like shooting a Glock with the reset technique, and not having to hold the trigger back. If anyone at Glock is listening, you should offer a Glock with 2 triggers....the original for carry and one like this for competion/fun. I know so many people who won't own a Glock because of its triggr. I can't wait to let these people try this gun.

I plan to get out to the range this afternoon and give it a try.

But you are about to take a TDSA class where they will show you why that trigger is not as good for competition as your stock trigger and why trigger re-set is not the best way to shoot a Glock fast. At the end of tyhe class, a bunch of fellow students with stock Glocks will shoot better than you and you'll be unhappy. If I were you, I'd put in a stock 5.5 lb. trigger group for the TDSA class. The good thing about learning to shoot the stock trigger that way is that your carry gun and match gun can be the same.

I may try out Duck's method on my open Glock and see how it compares - I just won't do it on a carry gun.

Hank Frank
06-08-2006, 08:37
Bren:
As we talked before, I'm looking forward to taking the TDSA course next month. I would like nothing better than to say their method of trigger pull with a stock Glock is the way to go.

I've have an "obsession" to learn to shoot a Glock before I die. Sigs, Kimbers, Paras, Colts, STI's, SV's...I have no problems with. I may not be the best shot, but I can shoot them comfortly. As for a Glock, you could stand 25yds from me, and not have a concern.

When I go to the range, I usually carry 8-10 Glocks. This way I can compare one arrangement to another without having to un-modify and re-modify a single gun if I only had one. Besides the Glock trigger pull problem, I have problems with seeing the sights on any gun clearly (age). I'm experimenting with different shooting glasses, different color lens, wearing cheaters behind them...but with the cheaters, the sights are find now, but the target is blurred, and a single bullet hole looks like two. This is my next obsticle to overcome. It seems like most things are worse for age...possibly except for wine.

As for carrying a Glock, I doubt I'll ever do that. In winter, I carry a compact, lightweight dehorned Kimber 45 from their custom shop. In the summer, I carry the small lightweight 9mm Rohrbaugh.

I'll let you know how the TDSA course turns out next month.:wave:

Duck of Death
06-08-2006, 09:01
Hank Frank

How's the Rohrbaugh working out for you? I have some interest in them, the aluminum frame is what's putting me off. If made out of stainless, even though heavier, I'd jump on it.

As for sights take a look at the Dawson Precision fiber optic front sight. Old eyes like the green insert.

http://www.dawsonprecision.com/

Here's what I did for sights on my G23, G17 & G26:

Put on a plain black MMC rear made for the Glock and a Dawson Precision Fiber Optical front made for the Glock/Novak rear. The front sight is .160 high. I opened up the MMC rear a little with a Dremel.

Looks like a small combat rear sight and it's adjustable. The front sight is very low and will fit any holster.

searcher
06-08-2006, 20:32
Originally posted by Hank Frank
Bren:
...
When I go to the range, I usually carry 8-10 Glocks. This way I can compare one arrangement to another without having to un-modify and re-modify a single gun if I only had one. Besides the Glock trigger pull problem, I have problems with seeing the sights on any gun clearly (age). I'm experimenting with different shooting glasses, different color lens, wearing cheaters behind them...but with the cheaters, the sights are find now, but the target is blurred, and a single bullet hole looks like two. This is my next obsticle to overcome. It seems like most things are worse for age...possibly except for wine.
...



For the "old age" gunsight/vision problem try a baseball cap style hat and pull the brim down to where it appears just above the top of the front sight. Don't know why it works, but it does.

Hank Frank
06-09-2006, 06:42
Searcher:

Thanks for the info. I'll try the baseball cap either today or for sure this weekend.

Duck of Death:

The Rohrbaugh is a great little gun, but like you, I would rather have the frame in steel. I feel I have to "baby" the gun more than any other gun I own.

I've not tried the MMC rear with the Dawson f/o front. Lately,I've been messing with the Heinie Slant Pro. I even kinda like the front and rear combination they give you, reminds me of my 1911's. I did start changing one of the front sight combo's to a fiber optic. Presently, I can't decide if I like red, green or orange fiber, and then to complicate matters, whether I should use .090, .105, or .125 fiber. I think I'm myself's worse enemey...I complicate things too much, but its fun and a challenge. Someday, I would like to discuss the rear sight opening. I'm trying to research what opening Brian Enos used on a rear sight. (some sort of a triangle cut)

Also, do you know the weight of the striker once you've reduced its mass. I will then have a end result to achieve.

And for some reason, I can't comprehend how to reslot the trigger, in order to make the trigger safety operable. If I notch the frame itself, will I beable to restore the gun to original, if I decide to sell it? I removed the plastic trigger from the trigger bar last night, but all I did was look at it. One would think this could be an area where some modifications/improvements could take place.

Have a good day.

:)

Duck of Death
06-09-2006, 09:23
Striker weight--I have no idea, but it's light enough with 7 coils off the OEM striker spring to light off CCI primers.

I DP fiber optic front sight is .125. Using a opened up MMC the opening is square sided and has a lot of light around the sides of the front sight.

Deepening the slot in the trigger safety (TS):

When you pull the trigger you also pull the TS, this allows the notch in the TS to clear the frame at the rear of the trigger and the gun will fire. Since you have eliminated the take up the notch is no longer able to come forward enough the engage the fame, thus it must be made deeper.

If you have another Glock look at the way the TS works when the trigger is forward. See the lip of the TS that catches on the frame when you pull the side of the trigger? Since you've shortened the take up that notch must be deepened so it will once again catch on the frame.

As far as the trigger and the bar:

1. Dress the hole and polish the sides where the trigger moves on the trigger bar.
2. Polish the pin.
3. Install a metal baring in the trigger for the pin to ride on.
4. Move the location of the pin to provide more leverage to the trigger pull.


Added: After deepening the notch in the TS I took it out of the trigger heated the plastic spring and bent it out. This was done to insure the TS worked in it's new configuration. Take the TS out of the trigger the same way you got the trigger off the trigger bar.

Hank Frank
06-10-2006, 07:29
Mr DOD:

I found a titanium striker in one of my parts bins, and installed it. It has a neat effect on the trigger pull. I have yet to try it at the range...probably today or tomorrow. As soon as I learn more and possibly see some pictures on reducing the mass of the original striker, I'll give it a try.

With regards to the sights, I'm just a few steps behind you. I have opened up the rear notch, and started using fiber in the front sight as stated before. I've gone as far as using a combat cut in the rear, which I like even though its .200 wide...for some reason I don't shoot that gun very well. I feel it's the aftermarket stainless barrel I'm using. I got to get someone locally to shoot the gun. Also, I like the ghost ring rear sights, but I can't shoot them too accurately past 10 yards.(Probably just me) On one of my carry guns, I've gone to a 1/2 ghost ring rear. It's fast and accurate.

I finally got the trigger safety figured out. I was reading too much into you instructions. I didn't notch the rear of the safety deep enough...so it can pop off the frame when pulling the trigger with a little excessive pressure. I will have to file a little more. My notch is about an 1/8inch long on the back side of the TS starting from the top.

Your item #4 regarding the trigger bar seems to be the "holly grail". I been going back and reading past threads, and this is a subject that is very well guarded. It's amazing the wealth of knowledge that is in the archives of "Glock Talk". I've been spending a lot of time reading these old threads.

I didn't know the pin holding the trigger safety is plastic, not metal like the other one. I'll just have to be more careful next time.

Have a good day....
:cool:

BustedFlush
03-30-2007, 12:56
Tagged for future reference - Duck of Death and his trigger mods.


;)

kevin mayfield
08-09-2009, 16:29
Duck of Death can you post some pic , I'm going to try some of it .

RFPhoto
10-17-2009, 18:10
Duck of Death can you post some pic , I'm going to try some of it .

+1 Id like to see those as well.

ace21
06-06-2010, 03:59
tagged

hrt4me
07-23-2010, 06:12
But you are about to take a TDSA class where they will show you why that trigger is not as good for competition as your stock trigger and why trigger re-set is not the best way to shoot a Glock fast. At the end of the class, a bunch of fellow students with stock Glocks will shoot better than you and you'll be unhappy. If I were you, I'd put in a stock 5.5 lb. trigger group for the TDSA class. The good thing about learning to shoot the stock trigger that way is that your carry gun and match gun can be the same.

Bren, would you please elaborate on this?

glockpeter
04-05-2012, 01:47
thanks

Alizard
04-08-2012, 12:37
The really "trick" Glock trigger jobs move the location of the trigger pin (that goes into the trigger bar) in the trigger itself (among other mods). An expert on the Brian Enos forum posted the details a while back and I did it to my G35. I got the trigger as good as possible, but it still is a Glock trigger so it will never be good like a 1911 or other gun which has a sear and a trigger that can be tuned.

As for the striker spring: you can get a "Lightning Strike" reduced mass striker that greatly increases strike energy and that will let you cut the striker spring force down significantly (which does lighten trigger pull).

hunter 111
04-09-2012, 18:02
Ralph Sotelo (Triggerkit.com (http://www.triggerkit.com/categoryNavigationDocument.hg?welcome=1&product*******Style5&layout=ruby&category*******Style1)) is pretty much a 1-man, web-based show. I would suggest contacting him through email rather than phone.

I can tell you that his kit performed precisely as advertised for me and for purely competition or fun use it's great...it is NOT however, something you would want to have in a defense weapon.
he or at least that site went belly up

DakotaGlockGuy
02-01-2013, 11:20
Duck of Death,

You've obviously spent a TON of time on your trigger work, but I didn't see any mention of the firing pin safety.

What are your thoughts on radiusing the FPS vs. leaving it in it's stock, angled form? Does it change the feel as well?

Thanks!

SouthpawG26
02-01-2013, 21:36
Previous posters got married, had children, and even became grand parents since this thread was started.

Most had a fruitful life, have retired, and some may have even died of old age.

So a big, and in some cases posthumous, thanks to all helpful posters!

Bren
02-02-2013, 07:20
I'm trying to achieve approx. a 3 1/2 lb pull that is crisp, as close to a 1911 as possible. (The guns will be used for competition, and not carry)


It's not a 1911 or even remotely similar and if you are trying to use the trigger the same way you would a 1911 trigger, you need to get a 1911, because you don't know how to shoot a Glock.


I hate to give up on these guns and resort back to my 1911's and Sigs. However, after awhile beating your head against the wall, it begins to hurt.


That's my advice - you either need to learn something about Glocks or go back to 1911 an Sig.

cciman
02-02-2013, 11:59
I absolutely agree with this.
Its like driving a Miata, then complaining that the brakes or shifter do not feel the same as a Boxter. HELLO!

It's not a 1911 or even remotely similar and if you are trying to use the trigger the same way you would a 1911 trigger, you need to get a 1911, because you don't know how to shoot a Glock.



That's my advice - you either need to learn something about Glocks or go back to 1911 an Sig.

silverfd
02-11-2013, 07:52
Does anyone have any pictures of where and how to reslot of the trigger safety?