5.56mm lethality on CBS News [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : 5.56mm lethality on CBS News


isuzu
06-07-2006, 23:25
Saw in the CBS Evening News a feature on the lethality of the 5.56mm round in Iraq and Afghanistan. One disturbing statement made by a soldier was he found out that the 7.62 x 39 was more effective than the 5.56mm round. It also said that the US would spend a lot to just to change calibers. I wasn't able to view it fully since I was at the phone at that time.

Were any of the BOGs able to see the news also?

cebuboy
06-08-2006, 04:08
what our local soldiers here say about the 5.56 is that it is a good manstopper. it does not penetrate like 7.62nato but they are quite happy with it. seeing pictures of people get shot with m193 ball will convince you of its lethality:)

vega
06-08-2006, 05:25
I heard that early today but I was still a little groggy yo listen fully well. That's a big overhaul if it ever happens. On another note, Baltimore hired 81 pinoy teachers.

blueeagle
06-08-2006, 05:31
saw a comparison of the m16 and the ak47 on the discovery channel. the results are: the m16 is more of a rifle than an automatic rifle, it is more accurate, it is lighter so it allows the soldier to carry more ammo and provisions, it is reliable in the hands of properly trained soldiers but is inadequate in hand to hand fighting(when used as a club). on the other hand, the ak47 is more of an automatic rifle, less accurate bec of a slightly off-center bolt assembly, heavier so soldiers practically carry only extra ammo, it is better suited to untrained operators, useful hand to hand fighting bec of its weight and wooden butt, penetrates up to 8 inches of timber or a concrete hollow block. hope i got everything correct!:upeyes:

jasonub
06-08-2006, 05:36
problem is with the new round. heavy heads

not the old 55 grain round that stops well.

isuzu
06-08-2006, 06:11
Originally posted by cebuboy
what our local soldiers here say about the 5.56 is that it is a good manstopper. it does not penetrate like 7.62nato but they are quite happy with it. seeing pictures of people get shot with m193 ball will convince you of its lethality:)

I've seen how the M193 performed. Nasty! Like Jasonub said, it could be the new M855 round that's having problems. I think they were criticizing the M855 round as far as the Desert Storm, if I'm correct.

cebuboy
06-08-2006, 11:21
the m855 does not fragment as easily compared to m193, wonder how the heavier mk262 performs. i have read about it that it works great in afghanistan.

darwin25
06-08-2006, 20:05
I have always preferred the M16 and M193 in standard length barrels exactly because of its effectiveness is much better than shorter length barrels.

But on the argument is better suited in the hands of ubntrained operator is crap. The AK47 is simply the better weapon hands down. It has existed longer than the M16 fmily of rifles and has remained virtually unchanged. Great designs needs little change. It is reliable under any climate and condition unlike the M16. I have used both the M16 and AK47 under harsh conditions and Im completely convinced that the AK is the superior rifle. It requires less maintenance and cleaning even when shot with the dirty ammo chinese ammos are famous for. Which is very important under combat conditions. And the standard AK47ammo is superior in terms of stopping power.

I have experience with 3 kinds of rifles and I would choose then in tis order of prererrence.

1. AK47
2. M14
3. M16 with standard length barrel
4. M16 variant with shorter barrel

isuzu
06-09-2006, 00:36
Read a Popular Mechanics sometime 2004 which said that there's a variant of the M16 being tested in 7.62 x 39 caliber.

cebuboy
06-09-2006, 03:52
an ak would be nice, but ammo is hard to come by here in the philippines.

Eye Cutter
06-09-2006, 04:16
the new barrett m468 uses the Remington 6.8 round.

http://www.barrettrifles.com/military/images/m468.jpg

Kiddo
06-09-2006, 04:35
Didn't the US temporarily suspend the 6.8mm SPC project together with the HK XM-8?

Kiddo
06-09-2006, 04:40
Didn't the US temporarily suspend the 6.8mm SPC project together with the HK XM-8?

paltik45
06-09-2006, 17:16
Originally posted by vega
On another note, Baltimore hired 81 pinoy teachers.

OUT OF TOPIC
I hope they put our kababayans in a nice area at sana naman ay sabihin ng mga impaktong employer kung saan sila dadalahin. Kagaya na lang dito sa Kansas city at St. Louis Missouri, anak ng tokwa eh sa gang infested at high crime area nilagay ang mga kawawang Guro. Yung sa kansas city ilang beses ng pinasok ang mga apartment nila at na haras ng mga gang. Yung sa east st. Louis (No. 2 sa high crime area sa amerika) ganun din ang problema at yung iba ay napilitan ng umuwi dahil sa takot at homesickness. Kaya mga kababayan ko dyan sa Pinas isang paalala lang. Hindi lahat ng lugar dito sa Amerika ay maganda at maayos. Kaya kung may kamag anak kayo na mga guro o kung anumang propesyon ay pag aralan dapat nilang mabuti kung saan sila ma dedestino dito. Yun lang po at nag-lalabas lang ng sentimyento.:freak:

isuzu
06-09-2006, 18:23
Originally posted by cebuboy
an ak would be nice, but ammo is hard to come by here in the philippines.

I think gun stores in the Philippines are just taking advantage of 7.62 x 39 pricing there. If you go to the www.ar15.com ammo forums, AK ammo is more abundant and much cheaper than the AR ammo. Also, the price of a premium built AK is about half of its AR counterpart. The cheap Romanian AKs cost somewhere in the US$300.00 range.

Imagine how much money the AFP will save if they begin switching to the AK.

Norinco sells AKs and SKS-Ds which use AK mags.

As for the 6.8mm, this round never really took off.

paltik45
06-09-2006, 22:17
Originally posted by isuzu

Imagine how much money the AFP will save if they begin switching to the AK.


Sa tingin mo kaya kabayan papayag si "Big Brother Sam" at si Gloria Labandera sa ganitong plano.:) I dont think so, as we all know those firearms is not just a "Tool" but more of a symbol. AK's for the AXIS(commies) and M-16's for NATO or US allies. Besides, the Philippines wont benefit from the freebies of the US military if they will change their weaponry.:clown:

isuzu
06-09-2006, 22:19
I guess we'll get stuck with expensive equipment. Sad thing is that we can't change our equipment just like that. Yes, politics plays a big part in procurement for our military equipment.

paltik45
06-09-2006, 22:47
That is true in the Philippine setting. BTW we dont have to go far regarding the stopping power(if you can call it) of the 5.56 cal. Remember the incident in Mindanao way back in 1997 or 98. When the CAFGU's and the local police responded to assist the relocation of a local community called "Tadtad". They believe they are invisible and bullet proof because of their anting-anting. It so happened that the crew of MGB(magandang gabi bayan) or TV patrol was there and they were able to record the incident. They are just like the modern day "HURAMENTADOS." They charged the police and the authorities responded by using their M16's and the CAFGU'S with their M1Garand. Those who were hit with M16's several times just kept on attacking the police. The attackers even got close and managed to hack two police officers but the CAFGUS with the M1's didnt even get a scratch.
The whole incedent was cought on tape and was brought to the senate for investigation. I hope some of you can still recall that incident.

BTW the attackers are just wearing shorts and nothing else.

Glock_19_9x19
06-10-2006, 01:45
Originally posted by paltik45
That is true in the Philippine setting. BTW we dont have to go far regarding the stopping power(if you can call it) of the 5.56 cal. Remember the incident in Mindanao way back in 1997 or 98. When the CAFGU's and the local police responded to assist the relocation of a local community called "Tadtad". They believe they are invisible and bullet proof because of their anting-anting. It so happened that the crew of MGB(magandang gabi bayan) or TV patrol was there and they were able to record the incident. They are just like the modern day "HURAMENTADOS." They charged the police and the authorities responded by using their M16's and the CAFGU'S with their M1Garand. Those who were hit with M16's several times just kept on attacking the police. The attackers even got close and managed to hack two police officers but the CAFGUS with the M1's didnt even get a scratch.
The whole incedent was cought on tape and was brought to the senate for investigation. I hope some of you can still recall that incident.

BTW the attackers are just wearing shorts and nothing else.

Saw that segment too...Garands and M-14s.

isuzu
06-10-2006, 08:09
Yup, seen that, too. In fact, one of the attackers who was mortally wounded by an M16 was already sitting down. He was shot close range, again by an M16 in the head. It took sometime for the attacker to fall down.

paltik45
06-10-2006, 10:22
Originally posted by isuzu
Yup, seen that, too. In fact, one of the attackers who was mortally wounded by an M16 was already sitting down. He was shot close range, again by an M16 in the head. It took sometime for the attacker to fall down.

Kitang kita yung "Blood spray" from his head in slow motion. That is the same spray of blood being describe by SNIPERS when they have a head shot. The police is just approx. less than 10yards from that particular attacker. That also reminds me of the most recently "Ortigas Shootout" or rubout(?). :freak:

jasonub
06-11-2006, 20:59
they were using autofire and very few got into the perp. the m1 of course were shot semi auto and the shots all hit the mark.

keep the selector switch on semi and shoot straight that will stop any one of them crazy bastards;)

Our marine snipers are using 5.56 on their (famous gunsmith) made msr (marine sniper rifles) none of the marines that used it complained of poor stopping power. They just shot their targets with 1 bullet and fight is over.

On the first day of the 3 or 4 rifles that were field tested. they got 8 x 1 shot kills. Misses 0. failure to neutralize with 1 shot 0.

the MGB video showed how inaccurate autofire was and worse, none on our side seemed to know how to shoot well.:freak:

vega
06-11-2006, 21:51
Originally posted by isuzu
I think gun stores in the Philippines are just taking advantage of 7.62 x 39 pricing there. If you go to the www.ar15.com ammo forums, AK ammo is more abundant and much cheaper than the AR ammo.
Abundant, not anymore. Most online stores are backordered and gun show prices went up.

isuzu
06-12-2006, 19:34
Originally posted by vega
Abundant, not anymore. Most online stores are backordered and gun show prices went up.

Wow! Gun and ammo prices went up that fast? Some people in www.ar15.com buy ammo by the thousands. Ammo dealers see this as an opportunity to create a "shortage" and increase prices.

choi_tan2000
07-06-2006, 00:28
yes mga sirs i think our police force should be trained well in using their rifffles specially when they use full auto parang mga sabik na sabik sa putok kung me engkwentro but fail to hit targets and one things increases victims of stray bullets like the one in ortigas rub/shootout eh pulis din nakatama sa kapwa pulis diba. sad thing. they r not watching their backgrounds. wawa naman civilians.

even with their pistols i think most of our police needs a proper training.

isuzu
07-06-2006, 06:37
Originally posted by choi_tan2000
yes mga sirs i think our police force should be trained well in using their rifffles specially when they use full auto parang mga sabik na sabik sa putok kung me engkwentro but fail to hit targets and one things increases victims of stray bullets like the one in ortigas rub/shootout eh pulis din nakatama sa kapwa pulis diba. sad thing. they r not watching their backgrounds. wawa naman civilians.

even with their pistols i think most of our police needs a proper training.

Full auto is not the ideal mode when used in thickly populated areas. We've tried M16s in full auto mode and only the first three rounds would hit the target. The best thing an LEO can do is use bursts to a range between 5 to (and maybe) 15 meters. Beyond 15 meters, a three round burst may be useless and just a waste of ammo.

What the police need to to do is to train is to be accurate in their pistols and rifles.

choi_tan2000
07-06-2006, 23:44
i agree with u sir isuzu they really need proper training

isuzu
07-07-2006, 21:31
Originally posted by choi_tan2000
i agree with u sir isuzu they really need proper training

They really need to go back to the basics. I've seen policmen in public (i.e., downtown in Bacolod) with M16s, and sometimes their trigger finger in resting on the trigger.

choi_tan2000
07-09-2006, 18:57
dangerous habbit? di kna ma recal one time sa t.v. live na raid na cover ng abs cbn umaakyat ng hagdan mg police ung isa triger finger in cocked hammer eh nakatutok sa isang police katakot talaga

sana lang wag civilians madisgrasya

cebuboy
07-10-2006, 03:43
thats why we encourage policemen to watch and join our tactical matches:)

choi_tan2000
07-10-2006, 21:18
i agree with u sir

sa laguna a lot of cops are joining our events kaya very confident na sila masipag din kasi mga officers here

tnx