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PMMA97
06-09-2006, 16:54
Tuesday June 6, 1:34 PM
Philippines, Poland Eye JV for Firearms, Ammunition Manufacture

MANILA, June 6 Asia Pulse - The Philippines and Poland are eyeing a joint venture for firearms and ammunition manufacture as part of defense cooperation between Manila and Warsaw, officials said Monday.

This comes as Manila was made a recipient of a US$140 million credit facility for the purchase of defense and military equipment.

In their joint press briefing at the military headquarters in Camp Aguinaldo, Philippine defense chief Avelino Cruz Jr. and visiting Polish defense Minister Radoslaw Sikorski said arms manufacturers from both countries have started talks for a possible joint venture.

"We can evolve a joint venture or cooperation on manufacturing small arms and ammunition," Cruz said.

For his part, Sikorski said: "We just don't want to sell things to the Philippines. We want to invest here our (Poland and Philippines) companies are talking."

Defense cooperation between Manila and Warsaw could cover exchange of visits and intelligence information, Cruz added.

"We want to enter into a defense cooperation agreement that explores many areas," he said.

Sikorski refused to expound on the credit facility, merely saying that it would be paid within a period of eight and a half years and with a two-year grace period.

Rosulo Manlangit, spokesman of the Department of National Defense (DND), said the proposed loan would amount to US$140 million.

"This [credit facility] is for the purchase of equipment," Sikorsky said.

Sikorsky arrived in the country Saturday afternoon, becoming the first Polish defense minister to set foot in Manila.

His visit serves as a follow up to the visit of Polish Prime Minister Marek Belka in Manila in July 2005, wherein Manila and Warsaw forged two memoranda of understanding (MOUs), the first establishing a mechanism for political consultation and cooperation and the second on cooperation on the possible upgrading of the South Rail line in Luzon.

(PNA)

horge
06-09-2006, 17:21
Third time's the charm, what?
Other MOU's with other countries came to nothing, thanks to the
cheerful diligence of the US Embassy: can't have other sovereignties
cramping the tax-scam of US EDA transfers, now can they?

A 'credit facility' is a loan option, not a donation. If DND can't
get Congress to line-item any proposed fruit of this Polska-Pilipinas
dance into the national budget, then all is dead in the water. Again.

However Poland is upgrading its equipment, assisted by a grateful
United States, and so this proposal may simply be a way for Poland
to sell off used equipment, with refurbishment operations in
the Philippines (there's your investment kuno) --both the sale and
refurbishment being fuelled by the credit offered.

If the U.S. is backing it this time, then perhaps it will bear fruit,
but then **sigh** I still have exceedingly sour memories of the
Taiwanese F-5 / Pakistani F-16 / New Zealand A-4 fiasco of the 90's,
mis-orchestrated by the same old clowns.

h

paltik45
06-09-2006, 17:41
I agree with you Kabayang Horge. Kasi nasa drawing board pa lang eh KICKBACK at KURAKOT na kaagad ang inaatupag:soap: hindi interes ng bansa at mga kawawang sundalo.

isuzu
06-09-2006, 19:11
I remember in the early 80's that the AFP was trying to procure Israeli Kfir fighters but nothing came out of it.

In the late 80's after the fall of East Germany, tens of thousands of AK 47s and their ammo, along with comblock military hardware were stored in warehouses. Securing them was very expensive, and Germany wanted to dispose of the AKs, by trading with the Philippines. Banana was among the Philippine products eyed by the Germans in exchange for the AKs and ammo. Again, nothing came out of the deal because money wasn't involved here.

The ammo's gunpowder ended up converted as fertilizer, and the AKs were just sold as scrap.

horge
06-09-2006, 20:15
Bananas?

The PAF acquired 30 SIAI-Marchetti S-211 trainer jets from Italy
in exchange for fresh/live prawns and women's lingerie. The jets
were good stuff, but the lack of airframe x-ray capability w/in
the PAF prevented the early discovery of frame fatigue, and
the necessary repirs to keep them safely in the air.

Taiwan was willing to sell us F-5's for $100 apiece, but the
...well, I've already alluded to THAT disgusting episode further
up this thread.

I can't feel too bad about missing out on East Bloc ammo and guns.
NATO standard is best for us geopolitically. The most disheartening
development in recent times was the failed attempt to manufacture
AR-180 assault rifles locally.

The Philippine government backed the outright purchase of ArmaLite:
the machinery, the plans, etc., after Colt's Mfg stiffed us on
M16 prices. Elisco Tool Mfg. was all set to churn these guns out,
when the EDSA revolution removed the project's backers from power.
Many rifle aficionados hold the AR-180 to be superior to the M16.

ArmaLite was eventually repurchased by a private American company and
is presently operating in Illinois, manufacturing AR-10 and AR-50
rifles, and tying up with Sarsilmaz of Turkey to import a commercial
line of handguns.

riddler
06-09-2006, 21:50
If people and the government would learn to work hard and honestly we don't need anybody's hand me downs.

isuzu
06-09-2006, 22:14
Yup, bananas was one of the products that Germany was willing to import from the Philippines. That fruit was very scarce in East Germany and after the fall of E. Germany, the demand for that fruit was very high.

And Canada just scrapped their remaining fleet of F5s.

Glock_19_9x19
06-10-2006, 01:48
:dancingbanana: :banana: :dancingbanana:


Banana republic.....

blueeagle
06-11-2006, 04:18
pati ba naman baril at bala ukay-ukay? he,he.he!!!:laughabove:

atmarcella
06-14-2006, 07:10
ano kaya nangyari sa pera from fort boni sale? akala ko it was for the modernization of AFP....

i dont see much of a difference from AFP pre-fort boni sale to AFP post-sale, they still drive the same "lame" tanks daw! di naman eh APC lang yun, the PAF didnt get anything new, the marines still use the palpak WW2 era amphibious landing craft, konting humvee lang nakita ko na bago, yon lang ba nabili ng fort boni???:shocked:

Glock_19_9x19
06-14-2006, 19:42
Originally posted by atmarcella
ano kaya nangyari sa pera from fort boni sale? akala ko it was for the modernization of AFP....

I dont see much of a difference from AFP pre-fort boni sale to AFP post-sale, they still drive the same "lame" tanks daw! di naman eh APC lang yun, the PAF didnt get anything new, the marines still use the palpak WW2 era amphibious landing craft, konting humvee lang nakita ko na bago, yon lang ba nabili ng fort boni???:shocked:

Let's see..The army still has those Scorpion light tanks, old rusty M-113's and YPR IFVs, V-100 n V-150 APCs, Simbas..very obsolete and old Vietnam war era 105mm howitzers ..medyo ok pa yan compared to the other branches

Navy has nothing "new" and "modern" except those 3 Peacock class OPVs from HK..Most of the ships in our fleet saw action during WWII and Vietnam..

And the Air Force...yeah our pitiful flying coffins..No more F-5As...Air defence relies on AS.211 primary jet trainers...FGA and CAS relies on some OV-10s..and MD520s and UH-1Hs..

After WWII, malakas armedforces natin. We had Sabrejets, Mustangs and M41 tanks..We also had F-8 Crusader jets nung 70s..The RP had one of the strongests military arms in Southeast Asia. Nowadays, with the exception of East Timor, pinagtatawanan na lang tayo. Compare nyo what we have from Malaysia, Vietnam, and Indonesia..

Saw this article sa web..this was last year but it still applies to the current situation of the AFP:
Philippine forces in need of a facelift (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/GE04Ae02.html)

blueeagle
06-15-2006, 02:59
if we were to go inside the politicians (past and present esp. those on the winning side) domiciles, i am very sure that we would find the latest, best and most expensive of everything!!! but our poor country makes do with other countrys' "basura"! and to think that they have the gall to push for a cha-cha to perpetuate their grip on juan de la cruz's neck!:soap:

atmarcella
06-15-2006, 06:47
if we were to go inside the politicians (past and present esp. those on the winning side) domiciles

yung ke de venecia nga bulletproof windows pa domicile nya ano hehehehe

cebuboy
06-16-2006, 04:28
Originally posted by Glock_19_9x19
Navy has nothing "new" and "modern" except those 3 Peacock class OPVs from HK..Most of the ships in our fleet saw action during WWII and Vietnam..



we have a cyclone class patrol craft which is spec-ops capable. and we have 6 of these fast gun boats (36+knots). they are quite heavily armed for their size. PG-114 has a 40mm in front, 2x 20mm at the back, 6 .50 cal MGs and 2 .30cal MGs. it only took us 1.5 hours to reach camotes island from navforcen mactan island:)

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i208/amochua/medcap/IMG_0983.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i208/amochua/medcap/IMG_0988.jpg

Glock_19_9x19
06-16-2006, 20:10
Originally posted by cebuboy
we have a cannon class patrol craft which is spec-ops capable. and we have 6 of these fast gun boats (36+knots). they are quite heavily armed for their size. PG-114 has a 40mm in front, 2x 20mm at the back, 6 .50 cal MGs and 2 .30cal MGs. it only took us 1.5 hours to reach camotes island from navforcen mactan island:)



Bro, is that the Cyclone class PC (http://www.timawa.net/modernization-pn.htm) na galing sa US?

The pic u have is the (PKM 200) PG 114 - BRP Salvador Abcede.
PG-114 is of theTomas Batillo (SK Sea Dolphin/PKM 200) Class (http://www.hueybravo.net/NavyPages/PKMclass.htm) we got from South Korea in 1995. One of the fastest we have in our fleet. Can reach 38knts flank speed. You're correct about the type's current armament:-)
Medyo outdated na pala info ko sa navy hehe

royal glockster
06-16-2006, 21:27
The navy should be given more priority in the AFP modernization program, considering that we are an "archipelagic" country. We can't even barely protect our territorial waters, so to speak. Just my opinion mga bro!

cebuboy
06-16-2006, 23:42
Originally posted by Glock_19_9x19
Bro, is it the Cyclone class PC (http://www.timawa.net/modernization-pn.htm) na galing sa US?

The pic u have is the (PKM 200) PG 114 - BRP Salvador Abcede.
PG-114 is of theTomas Batillo (SK Sea Dolphin/PKM 200) Class (http://www.hueybravo.net/NavyPages/PKMclass.htm) we got from South Korea in 1995. One of the fastest we have in our fleet. Can reach 38knts flank speed. You're correct about the type's current armament:-)
Medyo outdated na pala info ko sa navy hehe

yup, we have 1 cyclone class the ex-uss cyclone hehe sorry my mistake. the one on the pic is from korea pkm200 class, nice boat it is airconditioned and got dream tv. got a glimpse of the cyclone when we docked at navforcen, or rather our boat bumped the cyclone when we were attempting docking maneuvers:) only minor scratches, nothing serious. if only they let us pop off a few rounds from the bofors:)

isuzu
06-17-2006, 10:01
We were and are given good equipment but the question lies in the maintenance of the equipment. There's usually a budget for it, but the big question is: "where did the money (or the parts) go?"

Just like the Air Force. One of their Nomads landed in Busuanga. The mechanic drained some (or all) of the 40 minute reserve fuel from the plane and bartered it with dried fish from the local folk. Due to the intermittent supply of kerosene to the area, the local residents use Jet A-1 in their stoves after they let the fuel sit for 24 hours with the container open which is a dangerous practice.

chowchow
01-23-2007, 10:59
Ang budget pinapitaka pang retirement nang leders, makita mo yung mga bahay pinagawa halos marble.

revo
01-23-2007, 16:26
hm...cebuboy, you look chinito.

isuzu
01-23-2007, 18:54
Originally posted by Glock_19_9x19
Let's see..The army still have those Scorpion light tanks, old rusty M-113's

Talking about M113s. A lot of them were mothballed, but were quickly reactivated, refurbished (and reinforced) and sent to Iraq. These trusty and reliable APCs from the Vietnam era could withstand IEDs as compared to the "modern," lightweight APCs that the Army spent millions to develop.

The Vietnam war was such a huge laboratory for arms and equipment, that even Vietnam-era equipment are still being used in Afghanistan and Iraq due to their effectiveness in the battlefield.

cebuboy
01-24-2007, 08:38
Originally posted by revo
hm...cebuboy, you look chinito.

yup, because im chinito:)

KevlarSix
01-24-2007, 19:17
It would be nice if most of our better Armed Navy Patrol Boats be dispatched to the SouthWest (Zamboanga, Basilan, Palawan) where they are needed the most and put more Navy Search and Rescue ones to the rest of the Philippines.

flash1919
01-25-2007, 08:03
budget ng air force , napunta sa air force one,:rofl:

antediluvianist
01-28-2007, 07:37
The AFP got its share from outright landsales at Ft. Boni, and is getting its share from the various long-term leases there . What the AFP did/does with the money after they get it...THAT is the problem.

Clearly, we must discover how to make grenades out of bananas.

chowchow
01-28-2007, 15:47
Hanep nang mga Hi speed gunboats ng PN. Masarap mag pasyalan na yan sa mga remote islands, whoa.

isuzu
01-28-2007, 17:18
Originally posted by antediluvianist
The AFP got its share from outright landsales at Ft. Boni, and is getting its share from the various long-term leases there . What the AFP did/does with the money after they get it...THAT is the problem.

Clearly, we must discover how to make grenades out of bananas.

There were two reports in the Inquirer saying that the money is just sitting at Landbank, and the government is paying huge penalties for not using the money and/or LCs to purchase the equipment.

cebuboy
01-29-2007, 03:40
Originally posted by chowchow
Hanep nang mga Hi speed gunboats ng PN. Masarap mag pasyalan na yan sa mga remote islands, whoa.

hehehe if you want to go fast, you wanna get yourself one of these hurricanes :)

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i208/amochua/asean/IMG_1694.jpg

this one really flies off the waves :supergrin:

Capt.Barbel
01-31-2007, 23:31
Originally posted by cebuboy
hehehe if you want to go fast, you wanna get yourself one of these hurricanes :)

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i208/amochua/asean/IMG_1694.jpg

this one really flies off the waves :supergrin:


Bro ganda ng boat hah! sa cebu ba yan? Actually I know somebody there in cebu, like Cong.Eduardo Gullas. I used to work in his office late 90's pa. May mga projects din kami dyan pinasok like yung mga garbage bin sa talisay,minglanilla, mandaue. may garbage trucks din. :thumbsup:

cebuboy
02-03-2007, 00:51
Originally posted by Capt.Barbel
Bro ganda ng boat hah! sa cebu ba yan? Actually I know somebody there in cebu, like Cong.Eduardo Gullas. I used to work in his office late 90's pa. May mga projects din kami dyan pinasok like yung mga garbage bin sa talisay,minglanilla, mandaue. may garbage trucks din. :thumbsup:

the boat belongs to the navsog, our version of navy seals. it was used here in cebu during the asean summit to secure the shoreline of shangri-la mactan:) we just happened to tag along:)