I purchased my first AR today...

[John Stone]

Today I ordered my first AR15. I decided for my first AR to order a complete rifle, and would add to it. Once I feel comfortable with it, I'm sure I'll start building my own. I've always been a tinkerer, so I think (cash-wise) this is going to be a very dangerous hobby for me.

I was back and forth between the RRA Elite and the Bushmaster Modular. I finally ordered an RRA Elite CAR 4 w/ A.R.M.S. #40 Flip Up Rear Sight and A.R.M.S. #58 M Mid-length S.I.R. Rail Guard. How did I do for my first AR? It should be here Thursday, and I can't wait. Here's a picture:

http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/RRA_Elite_car_A4_SIR.jpg

Now I'm researching lights, optics and (bipods?). :supergrin:

So much to learn....

[goblue]

Looks great. Congrats and welcome to the club! You'll be very happy with your RRA.

Originally posted by John Stone


So much to learn....

Learn your irons first. I suggest ammo, mags and a sling before anything else.

[Ljunatic]

Ya done good:cool:
the RRA Elite is what I usually recommend , and an excellent choice.

[Glockdude1]

The only BAD THING about owning a AR15 rifle, is the tons of options availible for them since the AWB died. Many people "over dress" their AR's with options they won't use. Stick with options YOU will use, not just because it "looks cool" in a gun magazine. The only thing I have added to my Bushy is side sling attachments.

:cool:

[JellyBelly]

http://cproductsllc.com/

http://www.44mag.com/

Good quality magazines at about $10 each. Buy em' cheap and stack em' deep!

http://www.gandrtactical.com/

This guy is a GT'er and I bought a bolt carrier group from him. I definitely reccommend him for your AR needs.

http://betaco.com/index.asp

Get a Beta C-Mag or two. There are places online selling them for $239 shipped.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/

All you'll ever need to know about ARs you can find here.

[John Stone]

Thanks for all the helpful info/suggestions.

I will definitely learn to shoot with the iron sights before I move on to anything else.

I agree about overdressing the rifle. I've seem some pictures of rifles that are so overloaded with gear that I have to wonder how practical they are. That said, I will be purchasing an EOTech 552.A65 as they seem to have excellent "real world" value. I'd also like to get a tac light/laser that I move between my G19 and the S.I.R. rails. Any suggestions on such a product?

Some have told me that bipods on a Carbine are pointless, and others have said they are useful. Opinions on that are welcomed (obviously I'm a total n00b when it comes to black rifles).

A forward grip also seems like it would be a useful addition.

Jelly, thanks for the links. A C-Mag is very tempting!

Any suggestions on ammo for practice/SD? I was going to pick up a case of Wolf FMJ at Wally world this morning, but would like to hear some thoughts from the experts.

Thanks again.

[MrMurphy]

Good rifle.

Some rifles "fully dressed" have a lot of crap on them. Some of us use all that. I should show you a pic of my M4, with ALL my toys on it as issued by the gov't. You can barely see the rifle. :) And yes, I use them all. Generally though it's "Naked" with just an Aimpoint and a light, vertical foregrip and sling.


The standard 4-pos collapsible stock works well, but the Magpul M93 and Vltor give you a better cheek weld, and storage for batteries.

A vertical foregrip is useless for bench work, however for fast shooting up close, doing 3-gun competition or clearing buildings, they are very much worth it.

I don't like C-Mags, they weigh down the gun, can change your stance, and have a tendency to jam at the wrong time. 2 Rangers in Afghanistan died because of that. Personally I'll take 3 30-rounders over 1 90+ round C-mag, it's easier to use. They have their purpose, but for myself, I don't like them much.

For lights, the Surefire M900 has a vertical foregrip with a light built in. Not cheap but built well. I use a KAC foregrip, a Vltor Scout light mount and a Surefire 6P though I may upgrade to a 9P as I need more blinding power at the ranges I operate.

For optics, there's dots and power scopes. Dots are pretty much the Aimpoint Comp M2 (mil issue, standard optic of the Army and Air Force) and the Eotech series (also in limited mil issue). I prefer the Aimpoint because it's what I'm issued and am familiar with, but both are good.

In optics, standard riflescopes work, for combat scopes, the Leopold CQT, Trijicon ACOG and others are the ones to go with.

You don't need a bipod on a carbine, it's a crutch that if you don' t have will severely hamper you. On a sniper/precision/long rifle sure, carbine, no. Learn the irons first and keep practicing with them regularly once you have an optic.

[MrMurphy]

This is mine, without the light, grenade launcher, night vision scope, quadrant sight, or leaf sight mounted.

[epsylum]

Originally posted by MrMurphy
This is mine, without the light, grenade launcher, night vision scope, quadrant sight, or leaf sight mounted.

That right there beats the crap out of all the goofy stuff we civilians hang on ours. :supergrin:

[ColoradoGlocker]

.

[MrMurphy]

Yeah but it adds four pounds to it.

[John Stone]

MrMurphy,
I really appreciate your input. You obviously know and use your rifles (great pic, BTW!)

I'm so used to reliable weapons (being a die-hard GLOCK fan) that I'd probably be frustrated with the C-Mags if they are prone to failures. Thanks for the heads-up.

The M900 looks great, and I am considering it, but you're right--it's not cheap; that thing lists for somewhere around $600.00, I think. Honestly there are times when I'm not sure I'd want the foregrip and the light mounted at the same time. I may wind up going with the M900, but I'm keeping my options open at this point and looking at separate tac lights & foregrips.

For holos I'm pretty much sold on the EOTech 552 based on the massive amount of positive feedback I've read on that unit, however I'll give the aimpoint a look at my local gun shop as well.

Thanks for the suggestions on optics, as that is the area with which I've done the least amount of research. I'll check all those out.

I'm going to skip the bipod for now, and yes--I'll be learning to shoot with the irons before I start hanging fancy gear all over my rifle. I don't want to have to rely on any of that stuff because there may be situations in which that equipment is not available to me. I'm all for taking advantage of technology, but I want to master the fundamentals first.

Thanks again for the very helpful posts!


ColoradoGlocker,
That's great to hear! I've heard nothing but good about RRA, and I'm sure that this rifle will be the beginning of a fun, addictive and expensive adjunct hobby to my handguns. :)

[doktarZues]

Welcome to the club, nice choice. I don't like a bunch of crap on my rig, just a sling, holosight (eotech in my case on top of a dominator) and a mag clamp. I don't like vertical grips, they do nothing for me and I think they're cheesy. I don't like lights, when I was in Iraq it was apparent that once it got dark the people glowing had a tendancy to draw fire more than others. This only happened a few times, but no thank you sir I'll have none of that. I'd prefer everyone to be blind, rather then I can see the guy in front of me and everyone within a kilometer can see me. Mileage is sure to vary here. I think a bipod is kind of counterproductive on a carbine, they're designed to be lighter and more mobile, though depending on what you're doing I'm sure it's justifiable.

When it comes down to it, mags and ammo is the best thing you can invest in. :)

Have you found a place to shoot at yet? My cousin owns some land just outside of Kissimmee in Holopaw, thats our primary stomping ground, not far at all from you. I live in Melbourne. Anyways, this is a great place, tons of knowledgeable people here that can help you out, I've always found ar15.com to be kind of information overload, and the organization and search feature for non team members is terrible. -dok

[MrMurphy]

In my case, I do like VFGs (Tangodown makes a good one, my issued model is a KAC), and in my job, we work in the semidark a lot and considering some of what we do, positive target identification is not an option, we need a split-quarter-second shoot/no shoot ID, so a gun light is pretty much mandatory. Clearing a dark building isn't quite the same as an open-field firefight (we practice that too) so my light is removable. That's why I like the Vltor Scout mount for my Surefire. Tough, slim, non-bulky unlike the Fobus/First Samco mount a lot of guys got issued or bought, and I can whip it on/off the gun in about five seconds.

[doktarZues]

Roger that Murphy, I wasn't trying to blast VFGs I just wanted to take the opportunity to pass my opinion on to someone new to the club who still has an open mind :) As popular as they are (VFGs) theres no arguing that they are functional and serve a purpose. Same thing with lights, especially when it comes to dark buildings. Though on that note, if I'm in a position where I need to clear a room (lighted or dark), I'm going to do it with a shotgun or pistol. There aren't too many units in the military that have that option, making a surefire like you said, pretty much mandatory. -dok

[doktor doom]

Where did you find a RRA CAR4 Elite in stock? Everywhere I've looked on the net has them on backorder. Please post links. This is the same rifle I want, I just can't find them for immediate sale anywhere.

[Epizza]

Originally posted by doktor doom
Where did you find a RRA CAR4 Elite in stock? Everywhere I've looked on the net has them on backorder. Please post links. This is the same rifle I want, I just can't find them for immediate sale anywhere.

Check Triggerfin.com

[AR15Armory Neil]

Looking good John Stone, nice Rifle and rail system.
I have two of the ARMS Sir and thinking about getting an additional Sir for one of my SBRs'.

Just encase you guys have questions for A.R.M.S., they just became an Industry Sponsor at AR15Armory.com (http://www.ar15armory.com/forums)

[dirksterG30]

Originally posted by John Stone

For holos I'm pretty much sold on the EOTech 552 based on the massive amount of positive feedback I've read on that unit, however I'll give the aimpoint a look at my local gun shop as well.

John,

If you're going with the EOTech, you may want to check out Eagle Firearms - they've got demo 552 Rev. Fs for sale for $389, and 512 Rev. Fs for sale for $319.

You are going to love your Elite; I've got one too, and it is a very well-built, accurate rifle.

[John Stone]

Originally posted by doktarZues
Welcome to the club, nice choice.Thanks!

Originally posted by doktarZues
I don't like a bunch of crap on my rig, just a sling, holosight (eotech in my case on top of a dominator) and a mag clamp. I don't like vertical grips, they do nothing for me and I think they're cheesy. I don't like lights, when I was in Iraq it was apparent that once it got dark the people glowing had a tendancy to draw fire more than others.Vertical grips are pretty inexpensive, so I'll probably get a TD VFG and see how I like it.

As for the light, I'm still trying to decide what my "go to" home defense weapon is going to be. When I bought the AR I never thought I'd use it for HD, but now I'm starting to wonder if (once I'm comfortable with the AR) it might make a better HD weapon than my GLOCKs. If so, I want a light on it. That's also why I'd like to get a light I can move back and forth between my G19 and the AR--more options.

Originally posted by doktarZues
When it comes down to it, mags and ammo is the best thing you can invest in. :)I think I'm going to need more mags. The RRA only comes with one, and the dealer threw in an extra. As for ammo, I picked up a case of WWB for target, but I'd be interested in hearing some recommendations on good 5.56mm SD cartridges from all you black rifle experts.

Originally posted by doktarZues
Have you found a place to shoot at yet? My cousin owns some land just outside of Kissimmee in Holopaw, thats our primary stomping ground, not far at all from you.Not far at all! I'm a member at Shoot Straight in Apopka, but they only have a two lane 25-yard indoor rifle range (and, of course, their pistol range). I know a couple of people who own some land, but I wish there was a good outdoor rifle range somewhere close by. I'm on call for my job a lot, so traveling long distances to shoot is often problematic.

Thanks for the loads of good info!


Originally posted by doktor doom
Where did you find a RRA CAR4 Elite in stock? Everywhere I've looked on the net has them on backorder. Please post links. This is the same rifle I want, I just can't find them for immediate sale anywhere.I bought it at Impact Guns (http://www.impactguns.com/store/) in Utah. They had it in stock, and shipped the same day. I've heard good and bad about them, but the guy I talked to was awesome. He spent a lot of time on the phone with me and answered all my stupid newbie questions. My rifle is on the way, and is scheduled for a Thursday delivery, but it was already in Georgia last night, so I may even get it tomorrow!


Originally posted by AR15Armory Neil
Looking good John Stone, nice Rifle and rail system.
I have two of the ARMS Sir and thinking about getting an additional Sir for one of my SBRs'.

Just encase you guys have questions for A.R.M.S., they just became an Industry Sponsor at AR15Armory.comThanks, I think I'm going to like the SIR system a lot--I've heard plenty of good about it. Thanks also for the link, I'll check it out. :)


Originally posted by dirksterG30
If you're going with the EOTech, you may want to check out Eagle Firearms - they've got demo 552 Rev. Fs for sale for $389, and 512 Rev. Fs for sale for $319.You know, I keep hearing so many great things about both EOTech and Aimpoint. They both have their supporters. I'm going to check both of them out at my gun shop this week and see what I think. No matter which one I like, I'm going to wait a while to purchase it so I'm not tempted to ignore the irons. :supergrin:

Originally posted by dirksterG30
You are going to love your Elite; I've got one too, and it is a very well-built, accurate rifle.I'm very excited about it. Christmas in June. :beer:

[dirksterG30]

Originally posted by John Stone
As for ammo, I picked up a case of WWB for target, but I'd be interested in hearing some recommendations on good 5.56mm SD cartridges from all you black rifle experts

John,

You might want to consult the ammo oracle ( http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm ) as well as ar15.com (more specifically this page: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=162042 )

[Glockdude1]

Great target ammo Winchester 5.56 55grn Q3131: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=51099345

http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/051099000/51099345/pix510429703.jpg

:cool:

[MrMurphy]

Ammo: SD: Hornady TAP


VFGs are useless for prone work/bench work, they are specifically for close quarters maneuvering.

A Surefire G2 is $35 and a decent mount for it is about $30-40. Leave it on the weapon as a dedicated mount, the pistol lights are hard to use with a VFG often, and don't throw as much light.

With the stock completely collapsed and in a squared-up shooting position, an M4 is the same length as a guy with a pistol in Weaver or Mod-Iso two-handed grip, more or less. It's not a house-searching weapon (you don't ever clear a house by yourself, even two is iffy.... i train to do it with four and we still run out of people at times). You can search a building with an M4 but I would highly suggest professional training first, with either a handgun or longgun.

Practice much with the irons first. When you can snap the weapon up and double-tap a target at 25m and keep them inside a hand-sized group, you're doing ok. When you can go prone and do a 300m silhouette body shot on demand, or a rapid-fire 100-200m body shot, you're doing fine. :) In your case, concentrate on the closer ranges first, or if you can only get a 25m range, find some military reduced-size targets (we qual at 25m with these, the 300m target is TINY), it'll teach you the basics.

Mags: Stick with USGI, get a pile of them (10-12 being a good number for all-around, but the more the merrier after that since you may bang up a few in training).

A military web belt and some old 3-mag USGI mag pouches etc would be nice for Hurricane Katrina type situations to throw some mags in,without going for the full-blown tac vest (unless of course you WANT one of those).

[dbrowne1]

Good magazines and good ammo should be your priorities, as others have said. Practice and master your irons, then go to an optic - there's plenty of info and disagreement out there on that topic.

As for lights, the M900/910 is certainly the Cadillac and has many advantages, but it is as you say $600. It's also heavy compared to other setups, and most of that weight is forward of the balance point of the gun. It combines a lot of good features and is built solidly and mounts the light at 6 o'clock, which most people consider optimal for close indoor use, but you can accomplish that for less using another light mounted at 6 o'clock and a tape switch placed on your VFG.

In any case, I would look at an optic first anyway.

[MrMurphy]

At the ranges he'd be engaging, a white stripe of paint on the backside of the front sight triangle, and a light would do fine (makes a "SHOOT HERE!" indicator, quite obvious... not as good as a dot scope but it's about $3 of paint and 10min of time, and till you save up for the optic, it works). You NEED to identify your target, period.

[John Stone]

You all have no idea how helpful you've been. Thanks again for all the great links, kudos, advice and expert opinions.

So, guess what came a whole day early?! A big +1 to Impact Guns for delivering as promised. Everything was brand new and arrived in perfect shape. I never thought I'd be able to order an RRA on Friday, and have it the next Wednesday.

I have pictures:

Still in the plastic, upper and lower separated. Also shown, the Blackhawk double mag coupler.
http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/rra_brand_new.jpg



The fully assembled Rock River Arms Elite CAR A4 AR15 w/ A.R.M.S. floating Selective Integrated Rail System & L40 Flip-up rear sight. Sitting on top of the RRA hardshell Safe Case:
http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/rra_assembled.jpg



Looking down the barrel from the A2 flash hider:
http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/rra_barrel.jpg



A few more :)
http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/rra_table.jpg


http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/rra_royal.jpg


http://www.twowiresthin.com/images/rra_flag_h.jpg

[goblue]

congrats. great pics. Now go break her in and give us a report!

[John Stone]

Originally posted by goblue
congrats. great pics. Now go break her in and give us a report! Roger. Done and done. :)

Yesterday I field stripped the rifle, cleaned it and oiled before I took it to the range. Field stripping it was very easy (those takedown pins are TIGHT, and I had to use a rubber mallet to get them out - I'm glad they will loosen up in time). One thing that is new to me is the amount of oil required by ARs; I'm used to GLOCKs, which take a scant 5 drops of oil.

I must have done OK (the manual is good), because I took it to the range and experienced zero operational problems. Every round fired and the brass ejected properly without fail.

The only thing I'm not sure of are the iron sights. Even from a rest, the bullets were not going where I expected them to. I had to aim quite high and right to hit the in the "X" (and this is at only 25 yards). Once I learned where to aim I was hitting consistently, but the sights seem to be off. Is this normal? The only adjustments I can see are windage adjustments (left to right). Do iron sights need to be "sighted in"?

I'm going back to the range in a few hours. :supergrin:

[Epizza]

Nice rifle John Stone. I have ordered several guns from Impact and was pleased with them also. Although I will be buying my Rock River local with some wait time. I'll be looking at AR pictures until I get mine.

[goblue]

Originally posted by John Stone


One thing that is new to me is the amount of oil required by ARs; I'm used to GLOCKs, which take a scant 5 drops of oil.


Actually the ARs can run fairly dry. I get mine nice and wet with Miltec the first time out and really burn it in with a good 100 rounds of rapid fire so that it penetrates the metal. I then lighten up on the oil - just a nice coating that I can spread over the BCG with my fingers the next times out and a coat where metal runs against metal.

Originally posted by John Stone

Do iron sights need to be "sighted in"?


You need to sight it in. Use the IBZ method below if you have a 50yd range. Your ARMS doesn't have elevation, so all that will need to be done with the front sight.

http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite&naventryid=113

[Sir Hacksalot]

Very Very nice Rifle. I love the look of that.

As for other expenditures, I'd probably blow my money on Magazines, ammo, and some optics...I am partial to the Trijicon Reflex II with the 12.5 MOA triangle, but I know that's fallen out of favor with some. It has no batteries, is AWESOME for up close work and the tip of the triangle can be used as far as you can see. I like the fact that it has no batteries...and hte ontly real downside to me is that you can get some washout from the sun at certain angles.

The Vertical Foregrips are cool looking, and aren't so expensive, you might want to try and see how you like it, otherwise, it's not mandatory.

Other than that, I would focus my time on sight picture, breathing, and squeezing the trigger, and just learning my rifle.

My current rifle is much simpler...A2 Fixed carry handle, and no do-dads hanging off of it. I will eventually put a Reflex II on it, and call it a day. My next one will probably be a Mk12 Mod 0 Clone.

Hax