XS Sight system. Pros and Cons PLEASE!

[gunman_23]

Hello fellow GlockTalkers.

Im picking up a Glock 19 with standard sights I traded for on Friday.
Well I love night sights and I was wondering, should I go with the standard 3 dot system I know well or go and order the XS sight system?

Anyone have pros or cons for this?

Thanks

[rich52us]

I saw them at a gun show and the rear sight seemed very large and bulky.

[IndyGunFreak]

I personally, REALLY like the XS Big Dot sights.

I actually am planning on placing my order for a set on my Glock 23 here soon.

I'm not sure what the above poster means by the rear sight looks "big and bulky"... It looks the same size as the Mepro's to me...

IGF

[conditionred]

go with standard trijicons. read on the sites info on these xs sites. within short distances you have to aim 1 way - at a distance things change and you have to aim differently so the site picture is more dichotomous than it need be! Can be confusing - I want to point and aim the same way all the time. not have to aim differently depending on various factors. There is enough stuff to keep together at a crucial time than to add a few more variables into the mix. sorry this was not worded as cogently as I could have.

[gunman_23]

Originally posted by conditionred
go with standard trijicons. read on the sites info on these xs sites. within short distances you have to aim 1 way - at a distance things change and you have to aim differently so the site picture is more dichotomous than it need be! Can be confusing - I want to point and aim the same way all the time. not have to aim differently depending on various factors. There is enough stuff to keep together at a crucial time than to add a few more variables into the mix. sorry this was not worded as cogently as I could have.

You made your point very well.
I was on the XS site and read the different distance sight pictures. Im leaning to the old reliable 3 dot.

Now, where to get them cheap!?! :)

[vafish]

I have the XS Big Dots on 2 of my carry guns.

I love them for up close and fast shooting.

[IndyGunFreak]

Originally posted by vafish
I have the XS Big Dots on 2 of my carry guns.

I love them for up close and fast shooting.

Yup, thats where they shine, I don't plan on being involved in a defensive shooting at 50yds, Most will likely take place between 1 and 18yds, where these sights shine.

IGF

[pseudo-fed]

I have 5 glocks, and 4 sets of XS "Standard" Dot sights, and one "Big Dot" front sight on my 26. I shoot IDPA with them and carry them. The standard dot is more precise and easy for shots out to 25 yards and beyond. I don't believe anything catches the eye better. I shoot on the high end of Sharpshooter in IDPA with them, close to expert times, but I'm relatively new.

As for two sight pictures, true, they say this is best. However, the point of impact is just 2-3" different at 25 yards using top of dot versus center of dot point of impact. Odds are unless you are a professional shooter your skill level will cause 2-3" at 25 yards versus 3-7 yards anyway.

XS sights make sense to me over "notch and post" or 3 dot sight systems using black steel, because the front sight is a steel outline, with a white inline, with a green center dot. They grab your eye against light OR dark targets (carboard, steel, black or white t-shirts). When's the last time you heard of a thug, wearing bright clothing?

And, remember that in competition you have the luxury of focusing on your front sight and letting the background be somewhat fuzzy. And, you've "run the program" in your head. In a real life encounter you have more to look at and keep track of, in the foreground AND background. Many decisions to make quickly. Nothing in my opinion makes this easier then the very easily reacquired front dot of these XS sight systems. They are combat sights, not target sights, which many guys I know happen to compete very well (better than me) with also. And they, like me, then carry what they compete with.

That said, I am transitioning from tritium rears on the XS sights to non-tritium, because I find their rear white painted line is crisper than the tritium rear which does NOT have a white outline.

I recommend the "standard" dot so you don't feel like you're covering your whole target at 25 yards and beyond. And, the front dot in tritium is more than enough for indexing night shots.

Good luck,

[readyme]

pseudo-fed
that is all i needed to hear...i am getting the standard dot sights for my 19. thanks for the explination.

[BravoSix]

Put the standard dot set on my carry G19. The only con that I can think of is that my sights on my Sig and SW suck in comparison. None of the other sights are quicker to pick up and my groups are tighter now than they were with the standard glock sights. This is not a promise for better accuracy, but they are great sights and will be standard for all my carry pistols.

BravoSix out.

[RayB]

We recently removed the XS Big Dot sights from Judy's G19, and replaced them with new Trijicons. The "family" finds the Trijicons far more satisfying for target shooting.

With regard to the XS sights themselves, they are a great choice for a dedicated CCW, and I'll install them on my new G26/G30, when we lose this lefty governor of ours!

I can readily see where the non-tritium rear would be an improvement for range use, as the rear marker on the tritium model is poorly seen. While not as bright as our Meps of Trijs, they're plenty bright enough to get a quick, night-sight picture

The quality of the XS sights we received is excellent.

--Ray

[Glockinstine]

I have the Big dot in front and non-trit in the rear. I agree they are great for closed combat, but I miss being able to easly do robin hoods at 10yrds with my g36.

[csak]

I've got Big Dots on 2 revolvers and 1 Glock.
I love 'em. Fast up close and accurate at distance too.
I don't know why people say they are not for long range shooting.
I shoot well at range with mine.
Yeager has a video of himself shooting pepper poppers at 100 yards on GT. Do a search.

The only con is, I don't have them on all my guns....yet....

Craig

[ZombieSurvivor]

Originally posted by csak
I've got Big Dots on 2 revolvers and 1 Glock.
I love 'em. Fast up close and accurate at distance too.
I don't know why people say they are not for long range shooting.
I shoot well at range with mine.
Yeager has a video of himself shooting pepper poppers at 100 yards on GT. Do a search.

The only con is, I don't have them on all my guns....yet....

Craig

I've got to agree with csak. They can't be beat when it comes to speed in a REAL self defense scenario and they are just as accurate for me both ways. I feel it's easier to see targets at long distances also, because of the shape of the rear sight. There is room in the sight picture around the front sight instead of two dots blocking the way. just my opinion.

[gator378]

I like mine for the Glock 20 (10mm). They are usable under all light conditions, and I spent a few bucks finding this out.

They are not target sights, but "combat sights". You will not be able to get small groups with them at the range, but they are extremely effective in bad lighting conditions and very fast.

[DanV1317]

Is your glock a combat gun or is it a plinker? If you want to maximize your chances of hitting during a high stress situation, you'll choose XS.

[greg6099]

Accurate enough to impress your friends on the range - with practice. But they are, in my opinion, all about being up close and personal on dynamic targets which make them perfect for me with my old eyes...

[MrMurphy]

I've had the Big Dot tritium front only (the 24/7s came out a few months later) on my G30 for five plus years of carry.

Shooting on the move, shooting fast at multiple targets, etc is very easy. You just Dot Squeeze and you hit.

The differing sight pictures is easy to learn and does not take much time at all, you're just using the top of the dot as your aim point instead of the center.

I mostly shot (previous to deploying to Europe) at 20m and under, but once on a whim, I shot offhand 2 rounds at 50 meters and connected with 2 solid headshots on a TX DPS silhouette. I didn't take my time either, just lined up, paused breathing bang bang. I didn't think i'd even hit till I walked up.

For real world use, they are excellent. Not target sights.

[kim1911]

I bought a SIG that had XS sights and hated them. I thought they would grow on me, but it just never looked right.

[army_eod]

Just took my newly mounted big dots to the range. I installed the big dot front and the non-tritium real white stripe rear on my G17. It works great. After shooting close targets, I fired on steel plates at 50 yards. No problem. Hits were not hard.

[TimP]

I used my big dot G17 to shoot plates @ 25 yards. No harder than with any other sights IMO.

Up close they just rock

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by IndyGunFreak
Yup, thats where they shine, I don't plan on being involved in a defensive shooting at 50yds, Most will likely take place between 1 and 18yds, where these sights shine.

IGF

Well I hope you don't plan on getting into a shooting at all if you had warning you should either get the heck out of there or get a long gun. But life is not perfect and we don't get to pick the range we are attacked at. If I have to fire on someone 50 yards out I will and its not problem hitting them if you train. Heck hitting at 100 yards with a good pistol is not hard if you train. Most shootings occur at short range but those damn exceptions are the ones that sneak up and kill you. Big dot sights are not a good all around sight. They work fine at close range but suck at medium and long range. I would not have them on anything but a pocket pistol that was incapable of shooting long.
Pat

[happyguy]

Originally posted by 355sigfan
Well I hope you don't plan on getting into a shooting at all if you had warning you should either get the heck out of there or get a long gun. But life is not perfect and we don't get to pick the range we are attacked at. If I have to fire on someone 50 yards out I will and its not problem hitting them if you train. Heck hitting at 100 yards with a good pistol is not hard if you train. Most shootings occur at short range but those damn exceptions are the ones that sneak up and kill you. Big dot sights are not a good all around sight. They work fine at close range but suck at medium and long range. I would not have them on anything but a pocket pistol that was incapable of shooting long.
Pat

Pat, if you can't hit anything at long range with XS Big Dots, it's not the fault of the sights, it's the fault of the operator.

BTW, how's Bethel PD these days?

Edited to add: You said, "If I have to fire on someone 50 yards out I will and its not problem hitting them if you train." You are simply amazing Pat. You must be one of the greatest pistolero's of all time. Yes you can punch targets at 50, but there's a world of difference shooting at someone who's shooting back. It can be done, but "no problem", sheeesh, give me a break. Not to mention the typical well trained officer misses more often than not at ranges under 15 yards, I think you should start your own traveling Wild West Show.

Again Pat said, "Well I hope you don't plan on getting into a shooting at all". I personally plan on it every day, that's why I carry a pistol. I am relieved at the end of the day when it hasn't happened.

You also said, "They work fine at close range but suck at medium and long range." This is your opinion based on your inability to hit with them. There are a lot of other folks that would dispute your assertion and who can back it up on the range.

Regards,
Happyguy:)

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by happyguy
Pat, if you can't hit anything at long range with XS Big Dots, it's not the fault of the sights, it's the fault of the operator.

BTW, how's Bethel PD these days?


Regards,
Happyguy:)

I wouldn't know I work for another department now. What in the heck does that have to do with the price of tea in China. I also did not say that you could not hit with XS big dot sights at long range. I said they were not a good all around sight and they are not good at medium and long range compared to conventional sights. A statment that others here seem to agree with. Its obvious you have a problem with me. The feeling is mutual. However we both have to abide by Glock talk rules and not insult each other. I will keep this rule I expect you to as well. Try to stay on topic. This thread is not about me or where I have worked or about you.
Pat

[ShackleMeNot]

Originally posted by 355sigfan
I said they were not a good all around sight and they are not good at medium and long range compared to conventional sights.
Pat

Why are they not good at medium and long range compared to conventional sights?

[MrMurphy]

Having hit with them at 25-50 yards, I don't find them really any harder to use at that distance than standard sights.

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by ShackleMeNot
Why are they not good at medium and long range compared to conventional sights?

Its harder for most people to use a round object (the big dot) to get a good defined sight picture for accurate shot placement. They speed you up by simply allowing you to be less precise.
Pat

[dport]

Hardware solution to a software problem.

I've met some fantastic pistoleroes in my time exactly ZERO use anything other than post and notch sights.

So if you want to shoot somewhat better somewhat faster, then yes these will probably work for you. If you really want to be good, get quality post and notch sights and practice.

[ShackleMeNot]

Originally posted by 355sigfan
Its harder for most people to use a round object (the big dot) to get a good defined sight picture for accurate shot placement. They speed you up by simply allowing you to be less precise.
Pat

I haven't experienced the loss of accuracy you are describing. At close range or at distance I have no problems hitting exactly where I'm aiming.

[JMag]

I find it hard to argue with the logic of the Big Dots for CCW . They work.

BTW, it is my belief that most folks that have to use a pistol in self defense probably won't use the sights anyway...regardless of the sights on the pistol. It'll be an up-close-and-personal gig.

[Grandfather Glock]

Originally posted by dport
Hardware solution to a software problem.

I've met some fantastic pistoleroes in my time exactly ZERO use anything other than post and notch sights.

So if you want to shoot somewhat better somewhat faster, then yes these will probably work for you. If you really want to be good, get quality post and notch sights and practice.

People said the same thing about red dots sights on ARs. The XS Sights give us red dot-like speed with the Glock. I have found no other sight that is easier to pick up quickly in a wide variety of light conditions.

I have plain Big Dots on my G17 and G26. Had a set of tritiums on my old G19, but I find that the huge plain white dot is easy to pick up with just enough light that I can still see the target. If you do go tritium, get the plain rear.

In my opinion, the tritium tube takes up a large percentage of the white area on the standard dots. If you are going with XS, go big.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/d8006/g192.jpg

[dport]

Originally posted by Grandfather Glock
People said the same thing about red dots sights on ARs. The XS Sights give us red dot-like speed with the Glock. I have found no other sight that is easier to pick up quickly in a wide variety of light conditions.

I have plain Big Dots on my G17 and G26. Had a set of tritiums on my old G19, but I find that the huge plain white dot is easy to pick up with just enough light that I can still see the target. If you do go tritium, get the plain rear.

In my opinion, the tritium tube takes up a large percentage of the white area on the standard dots. If you are going with XS, go big.

The equivalent to a red dot on an AR is a laser on a pistol. A laser on a pistol gives you more advantages than a big dot.

I'd still like to see someone use a big dot and shoot better than the guys using traditional sights. You won't see it.

[happyguy]

Originally posted by dport
The equivalent to a red dot on an AR is a laser on a pistol. A laser on a pistol gives you more advantages than a big dot.

I'd still like to see someone use a big dot and shoot better than the guys using traditional sights. You won't see it.

This is just my opinion but:

I don't think the correct comparison is whether the top dogs use Big Dots or whether someone using Big Dots can compete with them.

A more meaningful comparison is whether you as an individual are more or less effective with the Big Dots as opposed to traditional sights.

No doubt there are going to be some folks that will favor one over the other. As I get older and my eyes get weaker, I find the Big Dots to have more and more of an advantage. Black steel was just fine (and about all that was available) in my younger days.

The blanket statement that they "suck" which was made by another poster is misleading.

Regards,
Happyguy:)

[dport]

Originally posted by happyguy
This is just my opinion but:

I don't think the correct comparison is whether the top dogs use Big Dots or whether someone using Big Dots can compete with them.

A more meaningful comparison is whether you as an individual are more or less effective with the Big Dots as opposed to traditional sights.

No doubt there are going to be some folks that will favor one over the other. As I get older and my eyes get weaker, I find the Big Dots to have more and more of an advantage. Black steel was just fine in my younger days.

The blanket statement that they "suck" which was made by another poster is misleading.

Regards,
Happyguy:)
They will yield an improvement, perhaps. It all depends on what you consider good to go. I have rather high accuracy standards, not to sound pompous, but it's true. If you look at the people with the highest accuracy standards, you won't find big dots.

The eyesight excuse is just that, an excuse. I may not be that old, but have suffered from 20/400 vision and the coke bottle glasses to go with it, for years.

Practice, and more correctly, perfect practice, will yield the best results. However, if you can't or won't and your standards are somewhat loose then yes these sights will work fine.

[happyguy]

Originally posted by dport
They will yield an improvement, perhaps. It all depends on what you consider good to go. I have rather high accuracy standards, not to sound pompous, but it's true. If you look at the people with the highest accuracy standards, you won't find big dots.

The eyesight excuse is just that, an excuse. I may not be that old, but have suffered from 20/400 vision and the coke bottle glasses to go with it, for years.

Practice, and more correctly, perfect practice, will yield the best results. However, if you can't or won't and your standards are somewhat loose then yes these sights will work fine.

I disagree. Vision is an acutely personal thing. The 20/400 measurement as well as the correction to it are only the beginning of what's going on. There is no way that you, nor I, or anyone else can say what another person is seeing. We can only go by what they describe to us they are seeing. Does that make sense?

To shoot accurately with the Big Dots at longer ranges does require a bit of retraining, but not a lot. IMO.

For me, Big Dots are surely a bit of a crutch, but if my leg were broken would you suggest that I forgo the crutches?

Regards,
Happyguy:)

[ShackleMeNot]

Originally posted by dport
They will yield an improvement, perhaps. It all depends on what you consider good to go. I have rather high accuracy standards, not to sound pompous, but it's true. If you look at the people with the highest accuracy standards, you won't find big dots.

The eyesight excuse is just that, an excuse. I may not be that old, but have suffered from 20/400 vision and the coke bottle glasses to go with it, for years.

Practice, and more correctly, perfect practice, will yield the best results. However, if you can't or won't and your standards are somewhat loose then yes these sights will work fine.

How do you explain this:
http://www.xssights.com/assets/XS_Sights_Demo_LoRes-1.wmv

Luck? Trick photography? 'Loose standards'?

XS Big Dot sights work great up close and still work great at distance. I wonder if the people who say you can't hit anything with Big Dots have ever even shot with them. I have no problems hitting targets with a Glock 19 at 100 yards. Can you?

It's almost funny. The people who rail against XS Big Dots are much more fanatical than the people who advocate them. I've never understood why that is.

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by ShackleMeNot
How do you explain this:
http://www.xssights.com/assets/XS_Sights_Demo_LoRes-1.wmv

Luck? Trick photography? 'Loose standards'?

XS Big Dot sights work great up close and still work great at distance. I wonder if the people who say you can't hit anything with Big Dots have ever even shot with them. I have no problems hitting targets with a Glock 19 at 100 yards. Can you?

It's almost funny. The people who rail against XS Big Dots are much more fanatical than the people who advocate them. I've never understood why that is.

I have no trouble hitting targets at 100 yards with my Wilson Combat using its standard Night Eyes night sights. I have played with the XS sights and I don't find them that great. Thats my opinion.
Pat

[perklo]

Here's what the sight picture is like on my G26 with the Ameriglo tritium rear and an XS Standard Dot tritium front:

http://perkloafm.com/pixs/glocksights.jpg

While not as big as the XS Big Dot sight, the Standard Dot is still larger in daylight than the Ameriglo front.

It's a pretty good combo.

- perklo ;)

[dport]

Originally posted by ShackleMeNot
How do you explain this:
http://www.xssights.com/assets/XS_Sights_Demo_LoRes-1.wmv

Luck? Trick photography? 'Loose standards'?

How do I explain marksmanship? I don't. Marksmanship explains itself. Obviously practice is a very good thing. Wish I could do it more.

XS Big Dot sights work great up close and still work great at distance. I wonder if the people who say you can't hit anything with Big Dots have ever even shot with them.
Well if you're going to quote me, at least attribute comments to me correctly. I'd like for you to show me where I have said you can't hit anything with big dots.

For the record, I have shot with big dots. I think they were called Ashley Express sights or Ashley XS at the time.

I have no problems hitting targets with a Glock 19 at 100 yards. Can you?
And here my point about standards has been made. You say you have no problems hitting targets at 100 yards with a Glock 19, but you fail to define what target you're shooting at and what "no problems" means. Is that 51% of the time. 80%? 90%? Is that against a standard size IDPA target? popper? reduced IDPA? reduced popper? NRA bulleye?
We must define our terms in order for the debate to be meaningful.

And for the record, yes I have been rather successful with a G17 at a 100 yards. When I had access to a 100 yard range(which was ONE time last year), there was a 12" steel plate. I hit it with over 80% accuracy. This year I participated in a walk back drill against a reduced IDPA target and managed to make it back to ~85 yards before I missed. The time elapsed between those two range trips was over 9 months. The number of times I went shooting between those trips? 3 Rounds fired? less than 100. Max range in between time? 25 yards.
I'm willing to wager you get more range time than that.

I wasn't even close to being the top of the class, and I considered my performance mediocre. The top of the class was a guy with a Yost 1911 and post and notch sights. A subsequent walk back drill, against the same target, was won by someone with a bone stock USP 9mm and notch sights. Both made it back to ~125 yards before the competition ended. Neither had missed.


Obviously, practice is the key.

It's almost funny. The people who rail against XS Big Dots are much more fanatical than the people who advocate them. I've never understood why that is.
As I have said before, the offer an advantage to a new shooter who wants to be faster. They are not a panacea.

[Cross_Steel]

The one thing I've heard negative about them is QC problems and customer service.

I don't know if this is true just forum info. Does anyone have any first hand experience?

[TimP]

I have never had any problems with them at all. I know a few guys there personally, good folks.

[army_eod]

Here are pics of my G-17 with

Big Dot tritium front and XS Sight Systems Non-Tritium White Stripe rear sight

Decal Grips

Grip Plug

http://pixpipeline.com/s/8712abe530c6.jpg (http://pixpipeline.com/d/8712abe530c6.jpg)

http://pixpipeline.com/s/07ab8aa88344.jpg (http://pixpipeline.com/d/07ab8aa88344.jpg)

http://pixpipeline.com/s/58293d9f747f.jpg (http://pixpipeline.com/d/58293d9f747f.jpg)

Cheers

[MrMurphy]

Had mine installed when they were Ashley Outdoors, and in person while I watched. No problems.


I am far from a new shooter (20+ years) but at the ranges they are intended to be used, and for the purpose they are intended to be used for, they work.