View Full Version : No More Meprolights for ME!
I recently bought a used G27 that had what appear to be factory installed Meprolight Night Sights. I say this because the front sight is staked on. When I first looked it over at the gunstore, I noticed what appeared to be a small chip in the epoxy that holds the rear tritium ampules in the sight.
I wrote down the SN and researched the manufacture date. According to the "sticky" thread here, it looks like it (the G27)was made 9 years ago. I thought - no problem, 9 years old on a 12 year warranty, I'll just send it back.
WRONG ANSWER! Today I get my original sight back from Kimber with a letter attached informing me that:
The sight is 11 years old.
It had to come off a used gun because if it was that way when I bought it, I'd have sent it back long ago. And BTW, the warranty is only for the original owner and doesn't apply to second owners.
My contention is that it is almost cetainly a factory defect and that it makes no difference if I did buy it used. I'd never have bought the gun or at least gotten a better price if I thought it wasn't covered under warranty.
I've recommended Meprolights to a lot of people over the years and have installed many sets on GLOCKs, as an armorer. Any of the few problems I've had were taken care-of - no questions asked. My loyalty to Meprolight has now ended. I think I'll patronize a company that gives a crap about customer satisfaction.:frown:
I'll order a set of XS BD's or Novak's for the gun.:)
Dean, sorry to hear that. Give Ameriglo a try. I had once contacted Ameriglo and have been treated very well, their sights are nice and their service is, too. It's a real American company, not a sales office.
Truglo is another sight manufacturer to whose very good warranty service I can personally attest.
allglock 07-01-2006, 11:37 Why did you tell them you were the 2nd owner??
I have sent 2 front sights back to them because the screw broke off.
They sent me 2 new ones, NO questions asked!:) Even sent me a new front sight tool for free!
Originally posted by allglock
Why did you tell them you were the 2nd owner??
I have sent 2 front sights back to them because the screw broke off.
They sent me 2 new ones, NO questions asked!:) Even sent me a new front sight tool for free!
I didn't! As explained in my original post, they figured that based on the age of the sight and that I'd probably sent it back before now if I was the original owner. I guess they didn't take into consideration that it could've just happened! It was all their decision, as I offered no additional info, except the sight and the model of the gun. I'm so pissed about the whole thing that I want to scream, I think I'll go shooting instead.;)
They (Kimber) are going to get a very nasty letter from me, but I think the damage is done.
Glocks&Ducs 07-01-2006, 15:13 If you look at the paperwork of most any night sight company, you will see that they pretty much leave themselves an easy "out" to standing by their warranty. You are supposed to send in the warranty card after you purchase them. I am sure very few people do, so I am surprised alot more people aren't turned away.
allglock 07-01-2006, 15:38 Originally posted by Glocks&Ducs
If you look at the paperwork of most any night sight company, you will see that they pretty much leave themselves an easy "out" to standing by their warranty. You are supposed to send in the warranty card after you purchase them. I am sure very few people do, so I am surprised alot more people aren't turned away.
How are you going to send in a warranty card if they came on the gun new?
UPDATE - Got a very nice PM from GlocksterPaulie. He is going to take care of my problem for me and take-up the issue with Meprolight. He really has no dog in this fight, but is willing to make things right. And I've never even bought anything from him.
Paulie - You da man!:beer:
If the front sight is staked on then it's a Glock factory night sight not a Meprolight.
I'm sorry but you bought a used G27 with used night sights. You've got no way no knowing how the previous owner treated the sights. You're expecting a freebie from a company based solely on the age of the sights. How about some cheese with your whine?;)
Originally posted by RAH
If the front sight is staked on then it's a Glock factory night sight not a Meprolight.
I'm sorry but you bought a used G27 with used night sights. You've got no way no knowing how the previous owner treated the sights. You're expecting a freebie from a company based solely on the age of the sights. How about some cheese with your whine?;)
You don't know WTH you're talking about! There were plenty of staked-on front MEPs before there were ever any GLOCK brand sights. Don't believe me, call GI and ask 'em. BTW, I didn't start working on GLOCKs yesterday.
And yes, I expect them to make good on the warranty as long as the sights haven't been abused. The sights (and the gun)look really good, except for the chip in the epoxy on the rear sight. I doubt seriously if either have been abused.
allglock 07-01-2006, 17:38 Originally posted by RAH
If the front sight is staked on then it's a Glock factory night sight not a Meprolight.
I'm sorry but you bought a used G27 with used night sights. You've got no way no knowing how the previous owner treated the sights. You're expecting a freebie from a company based solely on the age of the sights. How about some cheese with your whine?;)
I had a G20 with staked on Meps!:freak:
Do some research before you open your piehole.;)
My mistake, still doesn't change the fact that Meprolight is under no obligation to honor the warranty on a used product. BTW I don't pie.:alien:
allglock 07-01-2006, 19:50 Originally posted by RAH
My mistake, still doesn't change the fact that Meprolight is under no obligation to honor the warranty on a used product. BTW I don't pie.:alien:
He never told them it was used.
Originally posted by smoke
UPDATE - Got a very nice PM from GlocksterPaulie. He is going to take care of my problem for me and take-up the issue with Meprolight. He really has no dog in this fight, but is willing to make things right. And I've never even bought anything from him.
Paulie - You da man!:beer:
+1 for GlocksterPaulie!!!
I have done business with him in the past and it was A+ all the way. Very pleased with his service (it was for a holster) and it's awesome that's he's going to work this issue for you, amazing!!!
Guy Powell 07-01-2006, 20:25 I can't say enough great things about Ameriglo. They make an excellent product and stand behind it 110%. Bottom line is that they want their customer happy.
Originally posted by RAH
My mistake, still doesn't change the fact that Meprolight is under no obligation to honor the warranty on a used product. BTW I don't pie.:alien:
GLOCK is not obligated to warranty a used GXX either, but they do and that's just one of the reasons they get my $.
You don't pie???????????????
YUM, YUM Pie! ;)
Glocks&Ducs 07-01-2006, 22:57 How do you all know for sure that the staked on front sights by Meprolight were not actually Glock sights? Not all Glock sights were clearly marked as GLOCK. But all Glock sights, partially made by Meprolight were clearly marked as Mepro's in one way or another. The reason being, there are only a couple of companies licensed to distribute tritium tubes in the US. So they have to bear the markings of who installed the tritium portion of the sights.
Did you guys actually buy the Mepro's as an aftermarket night sight, and install them yourself? Or did they only come on the gun, as in factory installed? I'm curious to know, because I have never seen a GLOCK specific aftermarket sight that was staked in. I have seen 1911 sights, including Meps that are staked in, but that is by design. Those particular models were not dovetailed. I bought my first Glock in 1997 and have kept up with them since then. Never heard of a staked in Mepro that wasn't Glock. Just my experience though.
Originally posted by smoke
You don't know WTH you're talking about! There were plenty of staked-on front MEPs before there were ever any GLOCK brand sights.
When Glocks first came out and for a few years later you could purchase them with either Trijcon or Meprolight sights.
3 weelin geezer 07-01-2006, 23:42 Originally posted by allglock
He never told them it was used.
By its very nature, once you look at it it is used even if its still in the sealed package at the store. You know, I never thought of the warranty when I got my 5906 that had one of the lamps busted by someone dropping :laughabove:the pistol on the rear sight. I got some new ones and had them installed now its all right. They are trijicon while the old ones were marked MEP I think. I got a good deal on the new shiny black trijicons.
Glocks&Ducs 07-02-2006, 00:02 Originally posted by allglock
How are you going to send in a warranty card if they came on the gun new?
If they came new on the gun, in the case of Meps on a Glock, chances are they aren't Meps. Just Glock sights with Mep tubes. So if you had a warranty issue, you would get with Glock, not Meprolight. Probably what the original poster should have done. Especially since the front was staked in. Signifying that the sights were Glock sights, not true Meprolights.
Trijicon, on the other hand, goes by the date they stamp on the sights. In other words, they are truly standing behind their warranty as long as it is within the warranty period. So no warranty card required. The only thing is, they also leave themselves an out. By stating the sights must be installed by a qualified gunsmith.
Glocks&Ducs 07-02-2006, 00:08 Originally posted by Guy Powell
I can't say enough great things about Ameriglo. They make an excellent product and stand behind it 110%. Bottom line is that they want their customer happy.
Totally of topic. But Guy, I was born in Longview. I always think it's wierd when you post and I see that in your location.
DJ Niner 07-02-2006, 00:43 Another consideration here: IIRC, Kimber just took over importation of Meps in the last year or so. Before that, Meps were imported by another company. Unless Kimber's new contract with Meprolight required them to honor all warranty work on older sights, they probably wouldn't go out of their way to fix sights/tubes they didn't orginally sell. This type of problem crops up all the time in the importation of guns, gun parts, and accessories. Not the best way to do business as far as keeping customers happy, but not unusual. If that was the case, though, they just should have told you the reason, IMO.
Remember that the next time you see a "lifetime" warranty advertised on a brand-new product from a new-to-the-business manufacturer; in the short run, it's really the lifetime of the maker/importer that they're talking about. ;)
I guess I'm the only one who actually commends Meprolight for standing up to the guy who wants something for nothing....
boze2043 07-02-2006, 05:19 Originally posted by J.P.
I guess I'm the only one who actually commends Meprolight for standing up to the guy who wants something for nothing....
+1000 Sounds like he wanted a free bee and did not get it so he is pissed. Those sights were most likely installed at the factory since Glock use to sell Meps, Trij and Glock night sights at that time and installed them at the factory. Plus the meps were staked on just like the Glock sights, I know because I had a set of meps installed at the factory in 2003 and they were staked on. Now Glock only sells Glock and Trijicon night sights at the factory. I would have tried to get a free sight also but I would not have gotten pissed if I didn't get it knowing I was trying to get something for nothing and it did not work.
conditionred 07-02-2006, 05:59 Smoke - you bought a holster or two or mag holders from me last year.
I had Trijicons put on my Glocks recently. One of the owners of a gunshop within an hr of me and a Glock armorer screwed up my front site and leaked loctite all over the gun and the site and the actual white ring. Called trijicon and they have it now replacing the front site after the guy was a jerk about replacing his mistake. he also tried to talk me into mepro's. Trijicon took of my problem asap no questions asked and it wasn't even their fault.
I'll always stick with the leader---TRIJICON!
sorry to hear about your problem.
Originally posted by conditionred
Smoke - you bought a holster or two or mag holders from me last year.
I had Trijicons put on my Glocks recently. One of the owners of a gunshop within an hr of me and a Glock armorer screwed up my front site and leaked loctite all over the gun and the site and the actual white ring. Called trijicon and they have it now replacing the front site after the guy was a jerk about replacing his mistake. he also tried to talk me into mepro's. Trijicon took of my problem asap no questions asked and it wasn't even their fault.
I'll always stick with the leader---TRIJICON!
sorry to hear about your problem.
Thanx, I've also had good luck with Trijicons & XS. As posted earlier, Paulie is taking care of the problem for me. If I do decide to get any more MEPs, it'll be from Paulie. :beer:
Originally posted by J.P.
I guess I'm the only one who actually commends Meprolight for standing up to the guy who wants something for nothing....
You guys remember that if you ever have to send your GLOCK back to GI and they say "Sorry, it's older than 1 year, therefore it's not covered under warranty." :beer:
DanV1317 07-02-2006, 06:40 no more mepros for me, just because XS is better!
Originally posted by RAH
My mistake, still doesn't change the fact that Meprolight is under no obligation to honor the warranty on a used product. BTW I don't pie.:alien:
Also, if Mep's were staked long before Glock's night sites came out, doesn't it imply that the Meps were indeed old???
Sounds like the buyer should have checked first -- caveat emptor.
If the sights are really 11+ years old I wouldn't expect Kimber to replace them either (have you ever talked to Kimber?)
regards
I have Mep's on every Glock i own or have owned same for Sig's and H&K's with no problems, no issues.
Originally posted by remat
Also, if Mep's were staked long before Glock's night sites came out, doesn't it imply that the Meps were indeed old???
Sounds like the buyer should have checked first -- caveat emptor.
If the sights are really 11+ years old I wouldn't expect Kimber to replace them either (have you ever talked to Kimber?)
regards
The buyer did check first - according to the Gun SN, it was made in 1997. Kimber says the sights were made 11 years ago. Meprolights are supposed to have a 12 year warranty. How 11 year old sights got factory installed on a 9 year old gun is beyond me.
Originally posted by smoke
The buyer did check first - according to the Gun SN, it was made in 1997. Kimber says the sights were made 11 years ago. Meprolights are supposed to have a 12 year warranty. How 11 year old sights got factory installed on a 9 year old gun is beyond me.
But, aren't the newer Meps post and nut style? That would have concerned me as a purchaser.
Meprolight is well known for being stiff on their warranty service. I have heard of rejections because people didn't send in their registration card! Kimber is not that friendly for warranty either.
Having said that I buy a lot of used guns, and prefer Meprolight NS.
Just goes to show you never know exactly what you get when you buy used....
NYC Drew 07-02-2006, 16:52 Originally posted by smoke
The buyer did check first - according to the Gun SN, it was made in 1997. Kimber says the sights were made 11 years ago. Meprolights are supposed to have a 12 year warranty. How 11 year old sights got factory installed on a 9 year old gun is beyond me.
Take up the issue with the SELLER.
My story: a while back, I listed a set of night sights for sale. These I had purchased from another GT'er, who was selling a bunch of them USED.
I stated in the ad they were used, but they were unused by me.
I get an offer. I accept. I send a picture.
I can't find the sights. I tell the buyer I can't find the sights, but being that I'm a man of my word, I would get a set from Glockster Paulie, and have those sent to him, at no extra cost (these cost 2x as my asking price for the used sights) IF I AM UNABLE TO LOCATE THE USED SIGHTS.
No suprise, buyer agrees. Then states a request for a MORE EXPENSIVE sight than which I offer. Still no problem.
I find the original sights, advise buyer, mail them off.
Two weeks later buyer advises me he does not want the sights because the lamps are "dead" and there is some glue crud on the sights.
WTF? I send his money back, and take the sights back.
I've never stiffed anyone on a deal, and I've gone out of my way to do the right thing.
There is something inherently unpleasant about people that truly want SOMETHING for NOTHING.
--------
Not saying this is the case with Smoke, but he should have really taken up the issue with the seller of the gun 1st and foremost.
When he found out the sights are 11 yrs old, he should have REALLY taken it up with the seller - and even then he has no leg to stand on.
Glockster Paulie sells sights for $60+.
If Mepro honors the warranty in the strictest sense, they are going to send you 11yr old sights. That would be fair.
Do you want 11 yr old sights on your gun? I think not. So why make a stink over it now that you know the sights are that old? (reference to the thread title).
'Drew out.
Originally posted by NYC Drew
Do you want 11 yr old sights on your gun? I think not. So why make a stink over it now that you know the sights are that old? (reference to the thread title).
I was running the 11 year(? because I don't know for sure)old front on the gun with a stock rear sight and it worked well. I replaced the stock rear with a plain black Novak today and I really have no problem with the illumination (of the front).
I guess I acually hold GI partially responsible here as they evidently installed 11 year old sights on a 9 year old gun. I even called GI and they said send it to Kimber. I called Kimber before this (on another bad sight) and they said as long as the date code on the sight was within the warranty period, there "should" be no problem.
NYC Drew 07-02-2006, 20:42 Originally posted by smoke
...
I guess I acually hold GI partially responsible here as they evidently installed 11 year old sights on a 9 year old gun. ...
I'm not following. Do you mean they installed a 2yr old sight on a new gun?
'Drew
CombatVet 07-02-2006, 22:58 So basically you tried to get new sights by telling them it was a factory defect on a second hand gun that God knows who installed them used/abused, altered/misused or whatever may have happened to them.
I'm sorry you cannot blame Meprolight for it. I wouldn't have given you anything either. I don't know why so many people are out to get something for nothing. It's just sad that so many people here have that "they owe me" mentality.
Sorry I won't give you any sympathy.
Illuminaughty 07-02-2006, 23:45 I thought glocks had a lifetime warranty, within reason, not a 12 year. Interesting to hear this, can anyone confirm?
Originally posted by Illuminaughty
I thought glocks had a lifetime warranty, within reason, not a 12 year. Interesting to hear this, can anyone confirm?
FYI, I just checked my warranty card: GLOCKs have a *1* year warranty.
Now in the real world and in practice they, of course, do much better than this. But, they do have full discretion in what they want to honor.
Illuminaughty 07-03-2006, 00:17 Originally posted by remat
FYI, I just checked my warranty card: GLOCKs have a *1* year warranty.
Now in the real world and in practice they, of course, do much better than this. But, they do have full discretion in what they want to honor.
Yeah. Gives them control to not have to replace something bubba-ized I suppose. I like it.
NYC Drew 07-03-2006, 04:04 Originally posted by Illuminaughty
I thought glocks had a lifetime warranty, within reason, not a 12 year. Interesting to hear this, can anyone confirm?
We're talking about sights.
Illuminaughty 07-03-2006, 04:18 Originally posted by NYC Drew
We're talking about sights.
Oh... so... sights have a different warranty than the gun..?
NYC Drew 07-03-2006, 05:19 Originally posted by Illuminaughty
Oh... so... sights have a different warranty than the gun..?
YES.
the 1/2 life of the (radioactive) material used in most gun-sights is anywhere between 10-16 yrs.
'Drew
Originally posted by NYC Drew
I'm not following. Do you mean they installed a 2yr old sight on a new gun?
'Drew
It appears so. The sights are definitely factory installed. I know this for 2 reasons. The front is staked on and it says so on the box label. According to the gun serial number, the gun was made in 1997. Kimber says the sights were made 11 years ago. Since I cannot interpret the date code on the sights, I have to take their word for it.
Originally posted by CombatVet
So basically you tried to get new sights by telling them it was a factory defect on a second hand gun that God knows who installed them used/abused, altered/misused or whatever may have happened to them.
I'm sorry you cannot blame Meprolight for it. I wouldn't have given you anything either. I don't know why so many people are out to get something for nothing. It's just sad that so many people here have that "they owe me" mentality.
Sorry I won't give you any sympathy.
Do you not read? The gun has not been abused, in fact it looks brand new. The sights were factory installed. The epoxy around one of the rear sight ampules is chipped. There is no other damage to the sight. So yes, I consider it to be factory defect. It almost certainly has been that way since new.
I have seen other examples of off-center ampules, bad epoxy (ampule actually came out of the sight) and various other defects on night sights over the years. Don't assume that everything leaves the factory in pristine condition.
3 weelin geezer 07-03-2006, 08:22 There is a possibility that this sight was as they say NOS hanging around the shelf for a couple of years after production so it is possible for a 9 yr gun to have an 11 yr sight. How did you present your request for repair might have something to do with it too.
NYC Drew 07-03-2006, 10:44 The orignal complaint that started this thread still does not add up.
If the gun is 9yrs old, and the sights were factory installed, the sights are 9yrs old.
These are NIGHT SIGHTS, not standard white painted sights.
I do not want 9yr old (night) sights on any of my guns. My oldest sights are 2003, I would not call a night sight mfgr / distributor about 9yr old sights, as in my opinion, these are damn close to being "dead".
I don't beleive in throwing money away, but it also takes a certain amount of energy to ferret out that last 1% of anything - often more energy than the return.
my 1cent :)
'Drew
Originally posted by NYC Drew
The orignal complaint that started this thread still does not add up.
If the gun is 9yrs old, and the sights were factory installed, the sights are 9yrs old.
These are NIGHT SIGHTS, not standard white painted sights.
I do not want 9yr old (night) sights on any of my guns. My oldest sights are 2003, I would not call a night sight mfgr / distributor about 9yr old sights, as in my opinion, these are damn close to being "dead".
I don't beleive in throwing money away, but it also takes a certain amount of energy to ferret out that last 1% of anything - often more energy than the return.
my 1cent :)
'Drew
I'm sorry Drew, but your posts don't add up. Let's apply your logic to a different scenerio:
Suppose you own a Chrysler Mini-Van with a 7/70 Powertrain warranty. The trans fails at 69,900 miles. Are you telling me that you wouldn't want it fixed under warranty? After all, it's got almost 70K miles on it! (AND they might say you abused it)
As previously posted, I'm getting the issue taken care of by a third party. I just wanted everyone to know about how Kimber interprets the Meprolight warranty. BTW, Kimber says they go by the date code on the sights, not by the age of the gun. The sights are supposed to have a 12 year warranty. IF they only had a 5 year warranty and the gun was 9 years old, then I wouldn't have an issue with Kimber over this.
And the sights are not dead, I've got some that are 15 years old that are still useable.
NYC Drew 07-03-2006, 12:10 Originally posted by smoke
I'm sorry Drew, but your posts don't add up. Let's apply your logic to a different scenerio:
Suppose you own a Chrysler Mini-Van with a 7/70 Powertrain warranty. The trans fails at 69,900 miles. Are you telling me that you wouldn't want it fixed under warranty? After all, it's got almost 70K miles on it! (AND they might say you abused it)
...
I have a 04 Yukon XL, bought new. At 35,700k miles, I took it to a GMC location and had them fix every dang blasted thing I could find that was wrong with it. :)
Logic as it applies to your scenario:
The powertrain on a vehicle is an integral part of a vehicle. Night sights, while extremely useful under certain scenarios, are an accessory. It could be argued that night sights do not impact the functionality of the firearm in any way.
In the strictest sense, there are very few mfgrs that allow the warranty to follow the product or service. Typically, upon transfer (sale, gift etc) the warranty expireds.
All of my potential carry firearms (G19, G23, G26, G27, G29, G30, G32, G33, G36, G38, G39) have night sights.
To recap your situation:
1. You bought a used Glock, not directly from Glock, and (apparently) not thru any of those dealers that sell refurbished pistols on behalf of Glock.
2. Glock installed (new to Glock) night sights at the factory nine years ago. At the time of install the sights were two years old.
3. The sight manufacturer/distributor state that the sights are warrantied to the original buyer.
4. The sights are 11 yrs old, with a useful shelf life of 12-15 years.
5. The reason to have night sights on a firearm is to allow for fast target /sight picture in low light condition(s).
When I ordered my sights from GP, I ensured that the mfg date was within a month of my purchase. Sure, I have 3 yr old sights that are as *bright* as new ones, and I do have a set of 5 yr old sights that APPEAR to be as bright as the 3yr old ones, but not as bright as the new ones....
If I were in your position, I'd fell crappy about the deal too...but I definately would not have taken it up with Kimber. In my book, that's stretching goodwill just a wee bit too far. Understand that I'm not saying that what you have done/are doing is wrong, just that I would have done different.
Regards,
'Drew
Originally posted by NYC Drew
To recap your situation:
1. You bought a used Glock, not directly from Glock, and (apparently) not thru any of those dealers that sell refurbished pistols on behalf of Glock.
2. Glock installed (new to Glock) night sights at the factory nine years ago. At the time of install the sights were two years old.
3. The sight manufacturer/distributor state that the sights are warrantied to the original buyer.
4. The sights are 11 yrs old, with a useful shelf life of 12-15 years.
5. The reason to have night sights on a firearm is to allow for fast target /sight picture in low light condition(s).
When I ordered my sights from GP, I ensured that the mfg date was within a month of my purchase. Sure, I have 3 yr old sights that are as *bright* as new ones, and I do have a set of 5 yr old sights that APPEAR to be as bright as the 3yr old ones, but not as bright as the new ones....
If I were in your position, I'd fell crappy about the deal too...but I definately would not have taken it up with Kimber. In my book, that's stretching goodwill just a wee bit too far. Understand that I'm not saying that what you have done/are doing is wrong, just that I would have done different.
Regards,
'Drew
All of the above is true and I haven't denied any of it since the onset of this, so what's the problem?
I've made a concious decision NOT to deal with Kimber anymore because, in my opinion, they have poor customer service. I used to deal with Hesco on MEPs before Kimber took-over the distributorship. It didn't matter to them, they always replaced anything I had a problem with.
How much extra would it really have cost Kimber to send me another sight? Probably about $10 and they'd have kept a loyal customer.
TexasGlock23 07-03-2006, 14:04 Originally posted by smoke
UPDATE - Got a very nice PM from GlocksterPaulie. He is going to take care of my problem for me and take-up the issue with Meprolight. He really has no dog in this fight, but is willing to make things right. And I've never even bought anything from him.
Paulie - You da man!:beer:
you are correct. I highly recommend him
Originally posted by NYC Drew
I have a 04 Yukon XL, bought new. At 35,700k miles, I took it to a GMC location and had them fix every dang blasted thing I could find that was wrong with it. :)
Logic as it applies to your scenario:
The powertrain on a vehicle is an integral part of a vehicle. Night sights, while extremely useful under certain scenarios, are an accessory. It could be argued that night sights do not impact the functionality of the firearm in any way.
OH, and was ALL the stuff you had fixed on your Yukon necessary to the functionality of the vehicle? :supergrin: :beer:
buddyRoland 07-06-2006, 14:16 GlocksterPaulie is the man. I have purchased Meps from him before with no issue. Glad you got the issue resolved.
Originally posted by Illuminaughty
I thought glocks had a lifetime warranty, within reason, not a 12 year. Interesting to hear this, can anyone confirm?
Thats Taurus..
I think Mep's position is reasonable.
If it was, as you say smoke, like that from the beginning, then it stands to reason, from their position, that it would have been taken care of years before. Since you're brining up this problem some 11 years after they produced the sight, they reasonably believe that it is not a factory defect. Since the 1/2 life of tritium is, nominally, 12 years and you're trying to get an 11 year old sight replaced before the tritium wears out, for free.
I think your beef is with the seller for not taking care of the problem when he first became aware of it.
Originally posted by dport
I think Mep's position is reasonable.
If it was, as you say smoke, like that from the beginning, then it stands to reason, from their position, that it would have been taken care of years before. Since you're brining up this problem some 11 years after they produced the sight, they reasonably believe that it is not a factory defect. Since the 1/2 life of tritium is, nominally, 12 years and you're trying to get an 11 year old sight replaced before the tritium wears out, for free.
I think your beef is with the seller for not taking care of the problem when he first became aware of it.
Wrong - My beef is with KIMBER - The distributor for Meprolight. They could have sent me an 11 year old sight, as long as it glowed adequately in comparison to the front that I still have and I'd been OK with it.
Have you read the warranty on your GLOCK? (assuming you own one) What would you think if GLOCK interpreted it literally (ie NO warranty, but 1 year repair)? Again, assuming you can prove that you bought it new (and when) and have not abused it.
NYC Drew 07-06-2006, 18:51 Ok, I'm back.
"No More Meprolights for ME!"
- because they refused to honor the warranty on a product that has consumed 91.667% of it's warranty (note, it doesn't matter if the product is on it's last day, if I have a computer with verifiable hardware issues, I often wait until the last WEEK of the warranty to deal with it, in most instances, the warranty on the product is extended until the case is resolved. Deceptive? I don't think so, as I have found that once I get in the guts of a machine, all sorts of problems surface. None of these machines are for "me", they are for my clients).
- because I am not the original owner of the product, which is one of the conditions of their warranty (note: many mfgrs hold fast and true to this rule).
- because the warranty issue may or may not be a deflect or flaw with the product (note: it's a hard oar to row to prove that a flaw on a product in the last 10% of it's useful/warranty-able service life is in fact a "warrantable" issue.
"No More Meprolights for ME!" - is not entirely accurate, given that you'll gladly take a set from GP.
'Drew
Oh give me a freakin' break!
You are correct in that it's not all about Meprolight, I think they make some great sights. It's mostly about the sorry company that distributes them (Kimber).
NYC Drew 07-06-2006, 22:03 Originally posted by smoke
Oh give me a freakin' break!
You are correct in that it's not all about Meprolight, I think they make some great sights. It's mostly about the sorry company that distributes them (Kimber).
Now that is something we can agree on! :supergrin:
Lissen, they are literally around the corner from my apartment in Yonkers. If you want, I'll UPS GROUND a few used diapers to them :rollsmiley:
'Drew
Originally posted by smoke
Wrong - My beef is with KIMBER - The distributor for Meprolight. They could have sent me an 11 year old sight, as long as it glowed adequately in comparison to the front that I still have and I'd been OK with it.
Have you read the warranty on your GLOCK? (assuming you own one) What would you think if GLOCK interpreted it literally (ie NO warranty, but 1 year repair)? Again, assuming you can prove that you bought it new (and when) and have not abused it.
Because Kimber has 11 year old Meprolights hanging around? Yeah right. They weren't even the distributor for Meprolights at the time your sight/gun was sold.
Again, if it was a problem with workmanship, it should have been caught a long time ago. I agree with Kimber/Meprolight there is no way for them to tell when the defect/damage occurred or who did it.
As for my warranty on my Glock, I own several. All are over 1 year old, and I don't expect Glock to fix them for free.
Your last line is interesting:
"Again, assuming you can prove that you bought it new (and when) and have not abused it."
You can do neither for Kimber, yet you expect them to foot the bill.
Originally posted by dport
Your last line is interesting:
"Again, assuming you can prove that you bought it new (and when) and have not abused it."
You can do neither for Kimber, yet you expect them to foot the bill.
It's about literal interpretation of the warranty! I never told Kimber that I was the original owner and I can tell from the condition of the sight that it hasn't been abused.
GLOCK sells a lot of G's because they pretty much fix anything that ever goes wrong. If they had a rep for literal interpretation of their warranty statement, how many people would not own GLOCKs? :beer:
NYC Drew 07-07-2006, 18:21 Originally posted by smoke
...
GLOCK sells a lot of G's because they pretty much fix anything that ever goes wrong.
I'm not hammering ya, but I seem to have a hard on for this subject matter (you know how that is...)
At what cost to them? (adjust for the goodwill, repeat customers versus actual cost of repairing crap).
Originally posted by smoke
...
If they had a rep for literal interpretation of their warranty statement, how many people would not own GLOCKs? :beer:
I would still own each of my 20 odd Glocks, none has ever needed warranty service, the oldest is 9 or 10 years old (new from Glock to me).
'Drew out.
Originally posted by smoke
It's about literal interpretation of the warranty! I never told Kimber that I was the original owner and I can tell from the condition of the sight that it hasn't been abused.
GLOCK sells a lot of G's because they pretty much fix anything that ever goes wrong. If they had a rep for literal interpretation of their warranty statement, how many people would not own GLOCKs? :beer:
Glock sells Glocks because they are reliable.
In the first half, you admit to lying by ommission. Telling, I think.
Originally posted by dport
In the first half, you admit to lying by ommission. Telling, I think.
Put whatever spin on it you wish, I could care less. Where'd you come up with this "lying by ommission" BS? You a lawyer or just a spin-doctor? :freak:
Originally posted by NYC Drew
At what cost to them? (adjust for the goodwill, repeat customers versus actual cost of repairing crap).
I would still own each of my 20 odd Glocks, none has ever needed warranty service, the oldest is 9 or 10 years old (new from Glock to me).
On cost vs benefit -
> 98% of dissatisfied customers never complain, they just leave.
> 85% of dissatisfied customers tell nine people about their poor experience. 13% tell 20 people.
> A satisfied customer tells just five people.
> Over five years, a typical company loses 80% of its customers; 65% because of a negative experience with the company.
> 75% of the reasons a customer leaves has nothing to do with the product.
> Retain just 5% of your customers, and profits will increase from 25% to 55%.
> The top five businesses in any industry have over 90% customer retention. Most businesses average 80%.
> For every 1% improvement in customer rate sustained over five years, there is a 20% improvement in operating income.
On your GLOCK experience -
Then you are the exception and not the rule!:beer:
Originally posted by smoke
Put whatever spin on it you wish, I could care less. Where'd you come up with this "lying by ommission" BS? You a lawyer or just a spin-doctor? :freak:
I get it from a little thing I like to call a personal sense of honor.
A spin-doctor uses lies of omission; just as you tried to spin your circumstances with Kimber/Meprolight by not telling them the full truth.
Originally posted by smoke
On cost vs benefit -
> 98% of dissatisfied customers never complain, they just leave.
> 85% of dissatisfied customers tell nine people about their poor experience. 13% tell 20 people.
> A satisfied customer tells just five people.
> Over five years, a typical company loses 80% of its customers; 65% because of a negative experience with the company.
> 75% of the reasons a customer leaves has nothing to do with the product.
> Retain just 5% of your customers, and profits will increase from 25% to 55%.
> The top five businesses in any industry have over 90% customer retention. Most businesses average 80%.
> For every 1% improvement in customer rate sustained over five years, there is a 20% improvement in operating income.
On your GLOCK experience -
Then you are the exception and not the rule!:beer:
Speaking of spin, this is a good example of it. While those numbers may be true for industry in general. They are not necessarily representative of Glock's customer satisfaction numbers. So by saying he's the exception and not the rule, you are in fact spinning unrelated facts to try to paint an incorrect portrait of Glock Inc.
I guess you'll stop at nothing.
Originally posted by dport
Speaking of spin, this is a good example of it. While those numbers may be true for industry in general. They are not necessarily representative of Glock's customer satisfaction numbers. So by saying he's the exception and not the rule, you are in fact spinning unrelated facts to try to paint an incorrect portrait of Glock Inc.
I guess you'll stop at nothing.
On the contrary - I am quite happy with GLOCK Inc's Customer Service and in no way am I trying to paint an incorrect portrait of them. I own even more of them (GLOCKs) than Drew. Although, a few of mine have had to make the trip back to GI. In each case, I was treated admirably (after I talked to the right person). I am also a GLOCK certified armorer. So where do you get that I hate GLOCKs?
The numbers pertain to companies that don't have good customer service. I was trying to point-out that a little money lost in taking care of a customer reaps more benefits in the long-run.
The exception to the rule statement was simply meant to imply that fewer people would own a GLOCK if GI had poor customer service. I know people who do not own Rugers, S&Ws, or COLTs just because of political stances of those Co's in the past. :beer:
NYC Drew 07-08-2006, 20:13 Originally posted by smoke
On the contrary - I am quite happy with GLOCK Inc's Customer Service and in no way am I trying to paint an incorrect portrait of them. I own even more of them (GLOCKs) than Drew. ...
A few closing thoughts...
Happy shooting!
:supergrin:
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