Silver Bear 94-grain JHP available at AIM

[North Bender]

Here's a new round:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of_9X18_Makarov.html

[RMTactical]

I am interested to try it and to know how it is. I am willing to bet it will be a decent round. Someone let us know when you try it and what you think!

[Vigilant]

Any feedback yet? I just entered the 9X18 club with the purchase of two P64s, but I believe in nothing but clean burning ammo. Any gun I buy serves a purpose.

Hope to hear some feedback. So far, I'm thinking about sticking with Georgia Arms' Shear Power Plus ammo at $14 per 50.

Vig

[denfoote]

I have a box of the 115gr HP sitting right in front of me.
It's useless!!
They jam in the mags!!
I guess the OAL is just long enough to ensure that the follower will not push the round up in the mag body!!
I hope this stuff is better, but my experience dictates that I apply my rule: fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!!!
I'll pass.

[RMTactical]

The 115gr stuff works perfect in my Bulgarian Makarov. Performs well too.

[M2 Carbine]

I believe this is what denfoote is talking about. The rounds flat lock up in the magazines.

SB JHP jammed in the magazines.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/120SBinMags.jpg

The problem isn't so much the overall length but the poor quality control when forming the hollow-point. The hollow points range from good to very large with sharp edges. It's these larger hollow points that give the trouble because they, in effect, act as a longer overall length round and the sharp edge is effective at grabbing the round inside the magazine.

SB JHP from the same box.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/120SBBullets-1.jpg

I still have, I don't know how many rounds, from several cases of 120 and 115gr SB JHP.

To insure reliable feeding in the magazines and gun I set the bullets back a few thousands.
Using the bullet seater isn't entirely satisfactory because many times the bullet is just deformed instead of being pushed deeper in the case.

What I do is move the shell plate between die stations, in my Dillion, and push the bullet nose against a flat surface.
I adjust a long full length sizing die to give the correct upward stroke.
The bullet has to be set back only a few thousands to be reliable and only takes a few minutes per box.

I haven't bought any Silver Bear 115gr JHP in a couple years, maybe the quality control has improved.

[North Bender]

Hello M2: You were talking about the old 120-grain Silver Bear I think? That was a pretty notorious round. The later 115-grain seemed to be constructed with better quality control.

Vigilant - you describe a Georgia Arms Shear Power Plus bullet - are they making that in 9x18? I know that Georgia Arms made 9x18 for years with the Gold Dot Hollow Point (GDHP) bullet from Speer, but they can't get those right now and are loading 9x18 with the Hornady XTP.

I ran 20 rounds each of the new 94-grain FMJ and HP Silver Bear through a chronograph:

Silver Bear 94-gr FMJ (20 rounds tested)

In 2006 the Russian Barnaul plant started manufacturing Silver Bear. Older Silver Bear cartridges were produced by the Russian LVE plant.

Manufacturer: CJSC Barnaul Cartridge Plant, Barnaul, Russia
Headstamp: "9mm Mak" with small "JSC" (Russian Cartridge Plants Association) trademark
Cartridge Case: Zinc plated steel, Berdan primed, non-corrosive primer
Bullet: 94.3-grains (2 weighed the same), steel-jacketed, copper-coated, with concave exposed-lead base
Magnetic: Cartridge case and bullet jacket are magnetic

OAL (ins)
Range: 0.968 – 0.978
Avg: 0.974

Velocity: (fps)
Range: 930 – 1007
Avg: 969
ES: 77
SD: 20

Silver Bear 94-gr HP (20 rounds tested)

Manufacturer: CJSC Barnaul Cartridge Plant, Barnaul, Russia
Headstamp: "9 mm Mak" with small "JSC" (Russian Cartridge Plants Association) trademark
Cartridge Case: Zinc plated steel, Berdan primed, non-corrosive primer
Bullet: 94.2-gr (2 weighed the same), steel-jacketed, copper-coated, with concave copper-coated base
Magnetic: Cartridge case and bullet jacket are magnetic

OAL (ins)
Range: 0.936 – 0.941
Avg: 0.939

Velocity: (fps)
Range: 916 – 998
Avg: 963
ES: 82
SD: 25

[RMTactical]

I've heard of people having probelms with the 115gr SB, but I have shot several boxes of it and never seen this issue is all.

[M2 Carbine]

Originally posted by North Bender
Hello M2: You were talking about the old 120-grain Silver Bear I think? That was a pretty notorious round. The later 115-grain seemed to be constructed with better quality control.



Yes, that's true. The pictures are from the 120gr SB but I also have trouble with the 115gr SB.

The thing is though, my 115gr HP is back from when the 120gr was being discontinued. I had actually ordered a couple more cases of 120gr and received 115gr. That 115gr was still giving problems.

So, I don't doubt that the quality control is better. Hopefully there isn't any of the old 115gr stuff in the system.

Interesting that the SB is made by Barnaul.
From the 94gr Silver Bear you've shot, do you think it's up to the standards of the old Barnaul 95gr JHP?

[North Bender]

Originally posted by M2 Carbine
Interesting that the SB is made by Barnaul.
From the 94gr Silver Bear you've shot, do you think it's up to the standards of the old Barnaul 95gr JHP?

So far I haven't shot a lot of it but it does appear similar in quality to the old Barnaul blue box.

[Vigilant]

Yes, Georgia Arms shows the 9X18 round available with Gold Dot bullets, but to be honest, I would rather have their same offering at 1000 fps with XTPs, and sacrifice a little expansion for better penetration in the case of this round. I hear Hornady's offering is only about 920 fps, but still seems to perform well.

The five boxes of 115 grain JHPs that I have all came from NLVP, not Barnaul. I just opened a box, and examined 20 rounds. They don't have as much deviation in the ogive as the photo that M2 shared with us, but there is definitely a problem. So... I'll open all five boxes, weed out the worst ones and try them first, and see where I need to go from there. Perhaps Georgia Arms is the answer after all.

Vig

[North Bender]

Vigilant, are we talking apples to oranges?

I asked: "Vigilant - you describe a Georgia Arms Shear Power Plus bullet - are they making that in 9x18? I know that Georgia Arms made 9x18 for years with the Gold Dot Hollow Point (GDHP) bullet from Speer, but they can't get those right now and are loading 9x18 with the Hornady XTP."

Call Georgia Arms. They can't get GDHP now is what they told me. They are making 9x18 dwith XTP. And what did you refer to about a 9x18 bullet named Shear Power Plus in 9x18?

All 115-grain Silver Bear was produced in the LVE plant. Now Barnaul produces Silver Bear, in 94-grain. It appears to be a good round.

[Vigilant]

http://www.georgia-arms.com/shear.htm

I wasn't referring to a Shear Power Plus bullet. That's the name of the ammo line, which supposedly uses nothing but Gold Dot bullets. I called Georgia Arms just now, and they said they are back ordered on 9X18. I still say, if I could find some factory 9X18 XTPs loaded to at least 1000 fps, that would probably be my preference in this caliber. Looks like I will be chambering every round of this 115 grain stuff to be sure it feeds, and hanging on to all of it that works. I WISH they would make some more, but it doesn't sound like that's gonna happen.

Vig

[Vigilant]

BTW, I was born in Aberdeen, many moons ago.

[North Bender]

Aberdeen! Prettiest town I've ever seen. I've worked out of there a bit.