Walther P-1 WITHOUT hexagon frame bolt

[James Markov]

Are these surplus pistols doomed to failure? Curious as I just bought one....:frown:

[James Markov]

Anybody home? :freak:

[onebohemian]

I believe the addition of the hex bolt in a refurb was to reinforce the frame. There apparently were some cracking problems. If you inspect the gun after each use during your cleanings, and you don't use any hot ammo, I think you'll be fine. Sticking to 115 gr. WWB and similar such ammo helps reduce the impact these guns have to take. I don't believe in stressing any gun to its limit, so those people who say they don't have any concerns shooting +P or heavy grain ammo from their old P1s and P38s just don't impress me. Regardless of what ammo in the '40s through '60s may have been, treating these great old guns with a little tender care goes a long way toward preserving them for many, many more years.

Get yourself a new set of standard (stock) strength recoil springs for the gun, inspect it with a good light and magnifying glass if necessary to look for cracks, and then if it all checks out, shoot it as much as you want with WWB or some other range type (low power) ammo.

Congrats on the purchase. Go to P38forum.com for the greatest collection of collectors and information about these old guns that exists on the planet. You'll love that site now that you got the old Walther bug. By the way, I think I've only heard of one or two other P1s without the hex bolt being talked about over there. Those typically weren't refurbed at all, meaning the numbers all matched. Those are worth a little more than those of ours that have been refurbed once or twice. Do your numbers match?

[Otto Skorzeny]

Congrats as well on the Walther purchase. I hope you enjoy it.

I replaced my slide springs with Wolff springs and I'm VERY happy with the performance of the pistol.

All I shoot is 115gr. FMJ, No need to shoot +P or JHP as I would never use it as a CCW gun.

[James Markov]

So far the date stamps on the frame/slide don't match-I am searching for a manual to figure out disassembly :freak: Slide says 1/60 and the frame says 1.74...other side of frame says W 2 92

[johns961]

I only shoot non plus P's in mine. I shoot 115 gain and the german GECO 124 grain. Just for grins I shot some aging Speer gold dots last time I had one out. To my surprise, the pistol
performed perfectly ! I like the P-38. They are real history.
I think they had the first successful double action system and many people consider them the standard to which all double actions are compared to.

John!

[James Markov]

Why does the pistol throw hot brass at my head/down my shirt? :shocked:

[onebohemian]

That indicates a likely chipped extractor and/or bent or broken ejector. Should be visible under magnification or if you've got great eyesight. Go to P38forum.com and search for "eject" and you should find some great threads on how to identify the problem part and fix it.

Let us know if you can't find the info there and I'll do some searches for you to track it down. (Too hard to do it right now via my wireless unit.)

[onebohemian]

Try this link. (I tried to copy it from p38forum.com.) It provides more info and a few suggestions on this common problem. My P1 does not do this so don't just settle (like some guys do) for it. It's worth trying to fix as these are fun guns to shoot.

http://forums.p38forum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9556&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=eject

[James Markov]

Interesting stuff...My P-1 doesn't throw hot brass at my head/shirt EVERY time just frequently. I'll look over the extractor and go from there..one interesting note-I was once firing a Ruger P-97 and depending on what ammo I was using I DID get hot brass to the noggin-usually the hotter, lighter rounds caused this situation by having a faster slide velocity. Maybe there is something to it...:headscratch:

[onebohemian]

If you clean the ejector and extractor really well and inspect and don't see any problems, I'd get a new set of standard strength recoil springs before replacing any other parts. There's a pic of a P38 on the other forum that was shot so much with weak springs that the rear of the frame actually stretched backward. It's an amazing pic. Those old weak springs could be part of your problem with ejection as well. Also, as someone suggested on p38forum (and you have guessed), it could be ammo too, but I'd put some new springs in her first to see if that helps (and just to protect the frame from unnecessary abuse).

[James Markov]

One thing I did shoot my first 50 rounds and notices a sliver approx 1/4 inch long, and the diameter of a sewing needle that was on my shooting hand. It came from the frame, and my inspection lead me to believe that my frame(1974) was riding on a 1960 frame. Since it was perfectly like new before being shot-refurbed nice finish I think the slide is wearing the frame to its dimmentions. It is like putting new brake pads on a used car rotor-form fitting if I may suggest. Am I on to something here? :shocked:

[onebohemian]

I've never heard of "slivers" of metal being shaved off of any gun but I suppose it's possible, especially here where the slide has been replaced. I'd keep an eye on it during shooting though. It's easy to drop the slide after every 25 rounds or so just to check the rails a few times. If she's properly lubed and doesn't wear anymore, I'd probably not worry about it. If the slide feels like it's binding or holding up on the frame though, I think you might want to have a gunsmith look at her -- just to be on the safe side. There really isn't much to these guns by way of operation so I would think you'd be able to see whether something looked too uncertain to continue shooting just by slowly running the slide by hand. Pulling the recoil springs is easy to do so you could inspect the guides they ride in as well if you needed to (just watch which way the springs are pointing so they don't hit you in the eye when you remove / replace them). If you're still not sure, find a gunny for a quick inspection. Better safe than sorry.

[James Markov]

Well, I hope the sliver was a one time thing. I did notice bare areas were the finish is gone since its initial firing...I will keep an eye on it. It seems to fire center/2 inches low(if that) at approx 20 yards. Nice firing gun....how does your pistol do?

[Otto Skorzeny]

Originally posted by James Markov
Well, I hope the sliver was a one time thing. I did notice bare areas were the finish is gone since its initial firing...I will keep an eye on it. It seems to fire center/2 inches low(if that) at approx 20 yards. Nice firing gun....how does your pistol do?

My P-38 fires low as well. It's not for Self-defense, just a range gun so it's not an issue.

[James Markov]

Noticed more unusual frame wear on the gun-I have shot 100 rounds(Winchester white box ammo) and the aluminum frame is somewhat peened on the inside. Saw tiny aluminum slivers inside the gun. I wonder how long this gun will last-I plan on running around 1,000 rounds total thru it-Whinchester White box 115 grain full metal case exclusively. No wonder they went to the frame bolt for support. Is there some way I can have a frame bolt installed?

[James Markov]

Also, as I stated on the the main "non-Glock" forum, my front sight has drifted almost all the way out of its mount due to recoil...got some nifty suggestions to fix it there. Take care all, and thanks for the feedback ;)

[Laserlips]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_5812.jpg

JMO:

I would have to think that using standard 9mm ammo any P38 or P1 in good condition should not be causing the problems you are having...

My understanding is that the "fat slide conversion" came about because of slide weakness in the pre-hex-bolt models only after a tremendous amount of rounds were put thru them.. Obviously there was a problem, hence the conversion, but I don't understand the "aluminum slivers" part.. That's confusing..

My P1 was purchased "surplus" from www.impactgun.com a couple of years ago and it has been 100% reliable and POA at 15 yards.. Guess I just lucked up and got a good one?

Hope it works out for you as I consider Walthers to generally be exceptional firearms.

I wonder if someone before you ran excessive pressure rounds thru your P1... Most of these P1's were "surplus", imported from Germany, and had been used (or at least stored) by the German military. I don't have a clue as to how "hot" the 9mm sub-machine rds. in Germany are, but somewhere along the line I think excessive pressure ammo has been fired thru your P!

I'm not a gunsmith, never claimed to be, but the presence of "aluminum slivers" indicates unusual wear which is generally preceeded by abuse..

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

[James Markov]

Well the aluminum slivers are coming from inside the frame were the barrel slides home into the frame. Later models have the hex bolt going thru that area of the frame. I have only shot WWB 115 metal case, around 250 rounds total. Maybe I should get like 500 rounds of Wolf ammo, shoot it so that it will either sink or swim so to speak. The STRONGER the recoil springs the HARDER the barrel slams foward....people who buy extra strength recoil springs for their P-1 think they are helping matters but the gun wasn't designed for the added spring power slamming the slide/barrel foward. What do you think?

[Laserlips]

Originally posted by James Markov
Well the aluminum slivers are coming from inside the frame were the barrel slides home into the frame. Later models have the hex bolt going thru that area of the frame. I have only shot WWB 115 metal case, around 250 rounds total. Maybe I should get like 500 rounds of Wolf ammo, shoot it so that it will either sink or swim so to speak. The STRONGER the recoil springs the HARDER the barrel slams foward....people who buy extra strength recoil springs for their P-1 think they are helping matters but the gun wasn't designed for the added spring power slamming the slide/barrel foward. What do you think?



Guess I've been lucky all these years, but I've never had to resort to a higher power replacement recoil spring on any pistol I've ever owned.

Unless the pistol is malfunctioning in some way I think using standard power springs is the way to go. I guess if I had a pistol with cycling, feeding, ejecting problems I would try whatever changes were available to try and correct the problem, but generally speaking the the power of the original recoil spring was determined in the design process of the pistol and the pistol should work perfectly reliable with that power spring in it.

I am happy that my P1 came with the "fat slide conversion" which included the hex bolt for frame strength.. I didn't know anything about the slide "improvements" when I bought the pistol, I just lucked out..

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

[James Markov]

Originally posted by Laserlips
Guess I've been lucky all these years, but I've never had to resort to a higher power replacement recoil spring on any pistol I've ever owned.

Unless the pistol is malfunctioning in some way I think using standard power springs is the way to go. I guess if I had a pistol with cycling, feeding, ejecting problems I would try whatever changes were available to try and correct the problem, but generally speaking the the power of the original recoil spring was determined in the design process of the pistol and the pistol should work perfectly reliable with that power spring in it.

I am happy that my P1 came with the "fat slide conversion" which included the hex bolt for frame strength.. I didn't know anything about the slide "improvements" when I bought the pistol, I just lucked out..

Best Wishes,
Good buying on your part...AFTER I bought my P-1 I learned about the hex bolt/fat slide upgrades. Went back and saw a P-1 for sale, same price at Gander Mountain and with the hex bolt/fat slide
J. Pomeroy :sad: Thanks for your feedback...JM