922r

[Randy Dandy]

So am I understanding correctly that you still can't put a pistol grip stock on say a Mak90 w/o putting the American made parts in it?

[zzdroptop]

Thats correct it has to be 922r compliant if you add the pistil grip.

[graveman]

It would have to have six US-made parts to be 922R compliant .... most folks say five, but you might want to thread the muzzle later on and you'll need the sixth.
If I were un-buttholing a MAK-90, I would replace the Chinese wood stock with a US-made Ironwood Designs wood stock ( butt and handguards, maybe the grip also but it looks/feels weird, in which case I would opt for a plastic grip .... K-var or Century ), and change the Chinese double-hook to a Tapco G2 double-hook. No tools needed, and all the parts are in the rifle, as opposed to replacing magazine parts ( which will put you in non-compliance if you use someone else's mags or a drum ).
Remember the handguards ( upper and lower ) count as one piece, not two. If you only replace the upper, you'd still be off count.

[Randy Dandy]

Thanks for confirming.

An idiot at a gun show this weekend was trying to tell me that you can since the AWB died.

I told him it has nothing to do with the AWB and to go home and search "922R" on his computer.

[zzdroptop]

Actually the AWB provided an argument for NOT needing the complance parts due to some specific wording....it was gray at best and since the parts are cheaper than a lawyer to argue your case I put the compliance parts in anyway....since the AWB is dead and gone now the argument is dead too IMO. You need the compliance parts period end of story.

[Fear762]

922r is flawed, you can legally own a chinese ak but if its a norinco mak90 its illeagal to put a pistol grip and stock? BS.. The awb ended that just like AR's with a collapsable stock and flash hider.

[graveman]

Originally posted by Fear762
922r is flawed, you can legally own a chinese ak but if its a norinco mak90 its illeagal to put a pistol grip and stock? BS.. The awb ended that just like AR's with a collapsable stock and flash hider.

There are no perfect laws.

The AWB dealt with manufacturing and importing "assault rifles" , the 922(r) deals with importation of firearms in general. 922(r) says that any imported non-sporting firearm must have no more than 10 "non-US made" parts in it.

Why not invest a few bucks and be compliant, instead of spending a good fortune trying to prove the ATF wrong? I am sure they busted no private individual over 922(r) non-compliance alone, but why find out?

[Fear762]

Originally posted by graveman
There are no perfect laws.

The AWB dealt with manufacturing and importing "assault rifles" , the 922(r) deals with importation of firearms in general. 922(r) says that any imported non-sporting firearm must have no more than 10 "non-US made" parts in it.

Why not invest a few bucks and be compliant, instead of spending a good fortune trying to prove the ATF wrong? I am sure they busted no private individual over 922(r) non-compliance alone, but why find out?

Yes your right graveman its not worth the risk not to be in compliance. Although i still think its bs one can not just put a pistol grip and stock on their Mak90 while post ban ar15's can now install flash hiders and collapsable stocks on their ar's.

[Slinger646]

The 16 countable parts of an AK rifle. No more than 10 of these parts may be imported.

(1) Receiver*
(2) Barrel
(3) Trunnion
(4) Muzzle attachments*
(5) Bolt
(6) Bolt carrier
(7) Gas piston*
(8) Trigger*
(9) Hammer*
(10) Disconnecter*
(11) Buttstock*
(12) Pistol grip*
(13) Forearm handguards*
(14) Magazine body
(15) Follower
(16) Floorplate

The parts with the * are the most commonly available U.S. manufactured parts.

On a typical stamped receiver rifle you need to replace 5 parts with no muzzle attachment and 6 parts with a muzzle attachment.

On a typical milled receiver rifle you need to replace 4 parts with no muzzle attachment and 5 parts with a muzzle attachment, because there isn't a barrel trunion, it is part of the receiver.

When building an AK pistol, these regulations do not apply. You can not have a stock or forward pistol grip on a pistol.

[graveman]

Originally posted by Fear762
Yes your right graveman its not worth the risk not to be in compliance. Although i still think its bs one can not just put a pistol grip and stock on their Mak90 while post ban ar15's can now install flash hiders and collapsable stocks on their ar's.

Fear762,

The AK is an imported rifle and therefore subject to 922r.
A Bushmaster AR for example is a domestically produced rifle and therefore NOT subject to 922r.

Until September 2004 they were both subject to the AWB:

- the AK could not be imported in "military stock configuration" AND had to have no more than 10 imported parts ( remember how they got around the AWB with the Romanian SAR's by installing those "world famous" Century Arms pistons, fire control groups and pistol grips to make them compliant and not have a Butthole stock ? ).

- Bushmaster could not legally crank out AR's in "military stock configuration". All their parts were produced in the US so no 922r compliance was needed.

After the expiration of the AWB, the AK still has to have no more than 10 imported parts, yet it can have anything on it that doesn't make it a destructive device ( like a underbarrel grenade launcher ). Any AK ( or Uzi, or FAL etc ) that came in after 1989 is subject to this rule.
The parts rule would not apply to a domestically manufactured rifle, so you can take a Bushmaster that was made 7-8 years ago and thread the muzzle, put lugs on, a CAR stock etc etc etc and be OK. Hypothetically, if you have an AR that was made let's say in the Phillipines and came in during the AWB, you can't do said mods to it without observing the parts rule.

[Glockdude1]

922r makes no sense. In the end it it still the same weapon, firing the same ammo, from the same 30rd mags, the same way it did before you changed the butt-hole stock. If you just SBR the weapon, you can throw the 922r in the trash can.

What is the 922r law "protecting"?????

;)

[DaGroaner]

Originally posted by Glockdude1
922r makes no sense. In the end it it still the same weapon, firing the same ammo, from the same 30rd mags, the same way it did before you changed the butt-hole stock. If you just SBR the weapon, you can throw the 922r in the trash can.

What is the 922r law "protecting"?????

;)

K-Var, Tapco, Red Star Arms, Pro-Mag et al..

[Slinger646]

Originally posted by Glockdude1
922r makes no sense. In the end it it still the same weapon, firing the same ammo, from the same 30rd mags, the same way it did before you changed the butt-hole stock. If you just SBR the weapon, you can throw the 922r in the trash can.

What is the 922r law "protecting"?????

;)

A bunch of ATF Agents jobs.

[MTMilitiaman]

This chart might be of use:

[MSW]

I've got a MAK 90.

How do I tell when it was imported into the US?

Thanks

[Glockdude1]

Originally posted by MSW
I've got a MAK 90.

How do I tell when it was imported into the US?

Thanks

Usually, the first 2 numbers in the serial number, are the year it was imported, but not always.

:supergrin:

[graveman]

MSW,

If it says "MAK-90" then it is a post-1989 rifle and therefore subject to 922(r). Pre-1989 Chinese AK's are called "56" ( full stock ), "56-1" ( underfolder, also called "56-S" ), "84" ( .223/5.56mm full stock ) and "84-1" or "84-S" ( underfolder ). The pre-1989's are NOT subject to 922(r).

[expeditionx]

Originally posted by graveman
MSW,

The pre-1989's are NOT subject to 922(r).

The pre-1990 ones are not subject until they are reconfigured. The grandfathering clause only protects the configuration that it was in upon the enactment date of the law. If I buy a 1988 AK and reconfigure it today (not repair it), the clause no longer protects the original status. Gun dealers usually won't explain the clause because their merchandise becomes devalued and they lose money.
The clause issue appears in the May 1994 American Rifleman magazine.
An ATF headquarters chief is quoted saying what I said.

[graveman]

Originally posted by expeditionx
The pre-1990 ones are not subject until they are reconfigured. The grandfathering clause only protects the configuration that it was in upon the enactment date of the law. If I buy a 1988 AK and reconfigure it today (not repair it), the clause no longer protects the original status. Gun dealers usually won't explain the clause because their merchandise becomes devalued and they lose money.
The clause issue appears in the May 1994 American Rifleman magazine.
An ATF headquarters chief is quoted saying what I said.

You are correct. However, a Bubba-ed pre-1989 is not your every day encounter ( although I HAVE seen a 56 with a Romy wire folder and plastic TAPCO furniture on it, and the owner was wanting more $$ for it than an un-#$#!%^-with one would demand ).