HK LEM Question

[CombatMedic1911]

My confusion stands with my brother's federally issued but identical HK USP Compact LEM/V7 .40 to this one. I'll try to describe exactly what happened. We held them up next to each other and racked them both, and both moved in unison and ended the same, with the hammer back and the trigger able to move 3/4 rearward with ease. Next, we pulled the triggers and both hammers clicked in a dry fire. Here's where the difference happened, after the dry fire we both retained our triggers full rearward and cycled the slide as if a round were being expelled during firing, and my hammer dropped full forward while his remained rearward. He let off some pressure on his trigger to bring it back to the 3/4 rearward position and his was ready to go again as if he had just loaded a mag and cycled the slide for the first round. My HK required me to let the trigger all the way back to the forward/beginning position as if I had never cycled the weapon. I know that this may be hard to follow, but I've tried to explain it to the best of my ability. I realize that this was not with actual rounds, but my confusion is just why the two same pistols are acting differently. Does his have some Government only modification? Is there something that I am missing or is my weapon functioning perfectly and I'm just being a crazy person? Thanks for the help gentlemen

[LGCubana]

LEM (which is a precocked DA, with second strike capability) came after the existing 9 Variants.

Variant 7 is a true DAO. Every pull consistently sucks.

Are both of your guns identical ? or does one have a selector switch at the rear, on either the left or right hand side ?

[CombatMedic1911]

No safeties/selectors/control mechanisms, both my brothers issued one and mine are exactly the same. The HK box that mine came in even has a manual specifying that it is an LEM meant for the INS. Here's a photo of it that was taken by the man who sold it to me on gunbroker as an LEM (it looks stainless because all metal parts were refinished by Robar with their NP3 treatment). As I have sat here and done further research, I have begun to get that cold chill and stomach ache that is associated with realizing that you have dropped a lot of money on a firearm that turns out to be the embodyment of all you wished to avoid! I wanted LEM, not constant DAO, what should I do?

[LGCubana]

It's very easy to distinguish the LEM variants from DAO.

For LEM: (which is what I belive that you have)
Rack the slide, which will precock the LEM trigger & the hammer will stay back.
Now dry fire
As you noted, the initial take up will be light
Without racking the slide, dry fire again
The second pull should not have the light take up of the 1st trigger pull

[CombatMedic1911]

Well, I've done what you suggested and it seems as though it all played out as you predicted. Now I'm confused about what my brother has, he is a Federal Flight Deck Officer and his issued weapon is the same as mine, but his acts differently as I described above. What is the difference in his LEM and my LEM?

[LGCubana]

Originally posted by LGCubana
...Rack the slide, which will precock the LEM trigger & the hammer will stay back...


I fed you erroneous info. I should've pulled out my P2000SK before posting my last reply. :brickwall:

The hammer does not stay back when the slide is racked on a LEM trigger. I was thinking of my USPc .40 (variant 1) that I'm currently working on.

On a LEM model the hammer is always forward, (or to put it another way) flush to the slide. When you pull the trigger, you'll see the hammer moving rearward.

Just to confirm; if your hammer stays back when the slide is racked & the trigger pull has a light take up. But the 2nd strike strike option (dryfire without racking the slide or pulling back the hammer) has a much stiffer take up. You have some variation of a DoubleAction/SingleAction. What's throwing me off is the lack of a selector/decock switch.

Can you post some pics ?

[Chowser]

Take your slide off and tell me what you see.

if you see something that looks like a cylinder around a pin, you have a DAO pistol. If you see parts of a spring between the hammer and sear, it's LEM.

Will try to find pics of the LEM for you.

If you can, take a picture of it and I can be sure.

If you want LEM, you just have to buy the LEM parts and they can be swapped out. I've switched quite a few DAO HKs into LEM for a local PD.

Your LEM hammer will fall foward with the slide after the slide cycles. But each time you pull the trigger, it's a real light takeup, then a crisp break. With the DAO, it's a hard pull each and every time to the break.

Hammers on both will go forward when the slide cycles.

[Chowser]

here, this is the LEM setup on my USP Compact:


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-7/783168/hki1.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-7/783168/hk3.JPG

You see the two hooks of the spring against the hammer and sear.

If you don't see this and you see a round cylinder where the L shaped block is, you have DAO only.

[DaReaper]

Since were talking about the LEM trigger. I need my USPc .40 V3 converted to the LEM. I already have the parts. If anybody knows of an armorer in the Denver area that will do it cheap (real cheap), please let me know.

[LSP972]

Originally posted by LGCubana
On a LEM model the hammer is always forward, (or to put it another way) flush to the slide. When you pull the trigger, you'll see the hammer moving rearward.

Wrong. When the weapon is cocked, the hammer on a LEM protrudes slightly past the rear face of the slide. Dry-fire it cocked, IOW with no following slide movement, and THEN the hammer is flush with the back of the slide; and the trigger pull is three times as hard.

Medic1911, my pal is also an FFDO and has the issue USPc .40; shooting this gun is what made me decide to get my .45 LEM.

The two act indentically, in all manners. I am NOT familiar enough with any other HK variant to pass judgment. But what you describe your brother's gun doing is EXACTLY what my LEM USPc.45 does.

Sounds to me like you have a DAO version; and yeh, I'd be pissed too...:sad:

[CombatMedic1911]

Thank you gentlemen very very much for all of the information and pictures, I really do appreciate it. After examining and re-examining all of your posts and detailed information, I have come to the sad conclusion that this gun is a DAO that was sold to me as an LEM, including having an LEM manual in the case. I've never had a problem of this magnitude when buying a firearm before, it's just very disappointing and unfortunate. What's really bad is that I just graduated from college and the only job that I have is the guard (like 200 bucks a month at most), so I was saving up for this gun for a very long time. Well, I guess my next step is finding the LEM parts and finding someone who can install them :sad: Thanks again for all of the info guys

[LSP972]

If you're going to be a helicopter pilot, and stay in, I'd simply find an LEM-equipped USPc in .45 or 9mm and trade. At least with those two, you'll be able to find issue ammunition when deployed.

[Tecumseh]

Try posting on HKpro.com about this. They maybe able to help convert it cheaply to an LEM trigger.

[Chowser]

LEM parts can be had for around $50. I think. I bought 10 of them last year, it was $55 each shipped.

Over at HK Pro, they will have detailed instructions and links to pictures on how to convert it to LEM. I remember posting a few pictures myself when I was learning how to convert. After converting 10 in a row last year, I think I've got it down :)

[1811guy2]

I am a Special Agent with ICE and have the HK USPc .40 as my issued weapon. I also own a HK USPc .40 with the LEM. It performs exactly as you describe your brother's as working. The HK USPc with the LEM that was procured by the now defunct INS (and was developed by HK at the request of the INS) and the currently inept DHS has a long 5 pound pull followed by a short 7 lb pull. It behaves alot like a two-stage trigger. The reset is relatively short, and makes for very fast follow up shots.

It sounds like yours isn't an LEM trigger at all but rather a DAO, as others have said. Both will function virtually the same, however, you will not get the quick trigger reset which is the most desireable feature of the LEM. If it was sold to you as an LEM, and indicates that on the box or receipt, I would take it up with the dealer. If it was a personal purchase, caveat emptor. Sounds like Chowser can help you out with it. $55 bucks for the LEM would be well worth the investment IMO.

[Chowser]

if you can find a set of LEM parts and can't find someone local to do it or are not willing to do it yourself, send me your frame and the LEM parts and a $10 bill to cover return shipping and I'll do the conversion. You can send it to my PD so it guarantees someone will sign for it. This will be the 5-6 lb conversion, if you want the 7-8 lb, then I need the slide as well and that's probably not good to send. All the guys at the neighboring PD chose to do the 5-6 lb conversion (as did I).

I will see if my dealer has any LEM parts in stock as well if anyone wants it.

He takes forever though, it took him three months to get me by P2000. Back in 1999, it took him 6 months to get my USP Compact. I didn't mind because I was getting LE prices.

[DaReaper]

I ordered the LEM parts about 4mo ago direct from HK. They came to $80.35 w/shipping.


Chowser ...How can I tell if I have the 5-6lb or the 7-8lb parts?

[Chowser]

The parts kit is all you need, if you use every part, you get the standard 7-8lb trigger. i just don't change the firing pin block spring in the slide, I change everything else, and it's the 5-6lb version. when i get a chance, i will try to research the post at HK PRO and point you to it which has all the LEM info you would need.

The hardest part for me (and the part that takes the longest for me) is changing the trigger spring. First time I did it, it took me over an hour to get it right, after that, it only takes me about 10 minutes. I hate that part.

Everything else takes less than 5 minutes.