Build or Buy?

[bburgi]

I'm just getting into the market for my first AR. I've seen that you can often save a little by buying a seperate upper/lower and assembling yourself.

I realize that putting together complete upper/lowers is not nearly as involved as building your own rifle, but since this will be my first forray into the AR world, I don't want to screw up the gun just trying to get it together.

From a complete noobie standpoint, would it benefit me more to buy a complete pre-assembled rifle the first time around or attempt to put together an upper/lower combo?



Thanks!
Brian

[Army of Juan]

If I were you I would buy the two halves seperate. There is nothing for you to screw up going this route, just put the upper and lower together and push 2 pins in and your done. You save a little money and get the options of purchasing some really quality uppers from manufacturers who don't make complete rifles, and you can configure it more to your wants. You should check out www.bravocompanyusa.com, they make reasonably priced mil-spec uppers.

[c4igrant]

Originally posted by Army of Juan
If I were you I would buy the two halves seperate. There is nothing for you to screw up going this route, just put the upper and lower together and push 2 pins in and your done. You save a little money and get the options of purchasing some really quality uppers from manufacturers who don't make complete rifles, and you can configure it more to your wants. You should check out www.bravocompanyusa.com, they make reasonably priced mil-spec uppers.

This is good advice. The problem is that BCM is out of all 16" uppers for several months (I am out of them as well).

Stag Arms make a good upper and their lowers are good as well. LMT is another good choice.


C4

www.GRTactical.com

[RMTactical]

I will never buy a complete rifle (unless I get a STEAL on it price-wise).

I prefer to build my weapons and I also recommend that route for anyone who really wants to get the most out of their AR.

It allows the builder to create a custom rifle that fits his or her specifications in every way. Other benefits of building your own AR-15 include getting a possibly better price on your rifle but even better than that, knowing how to work on, customize, and how your AR-15 functions (knowledge to diagnose problems) is priceless for the owner of any specific weapon.

If you're the type to want good quality at a good price, you won't save much more than if you just bought a Stag or something... but if you want Colt quality (which is easy to get but not 100% necessary as they are only slightly better than a Stag or other comparable brands) then you can save a whole lot more for the same quality.

The AR-15 is relatively easy to build and work on once you go through your first build, as long as you have the appropriate tools.

You can get all the information you need (for building one) on the internet.

[VGunner]

Gorelicks - I'm in the market for a new AR as well and would like to build one. What manufacturers have you had good experience with or recommend? Thanks.

[RMTactical]

Originally posted by VGunner
Gorelicks - I'm in the market for a new AR as well and would like to build one. What manufacturers have you had good experience with or recommend? Thanks.

Stag/CMT is one of my favorite brands based on the quality, price, and overall value they provide.

That said, I prefer 4150 steel so I like to incorporate Colt or Bushy barrels in my own builds.

It kind of depends on what you are after. I have preferences for certain brands depending on the parts in question.

As for lowers, most will do well. Stag of course is reasonable priced. Superior, Ameetec, and DPMS are comparable in quality and are also some of the only others in the same price range. There are others in that price range but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

In general though, you can't really go wrong with most stuff from RRA, Stag, Bushy, CMMG, LMT, Colt, BCM, and others.

I've even seen DPMS turn out some good stuff.

The main thing to remember is to stay away from a model 1 sales type of manufacturer.

In the end, a lot of this seems to be determined by personal preference. Some people like to have a prancing pony on their lowers, some people can't handle the Stag head on the Stag lowers. Some folks swear by Olympic.

I've had very good luck with Stag and RRA.

[glockdeacon]

GoreLicks,

for quality of internals who do you think makes the better lower?

Does there seem to be a diference in fit between uppers/lowers of the same manufacturer and those that are of diferent manufacturers?


I am doing the same thing, Brian. I descided to get a lower and upper and put it together. I figured it would be better than getting all the parts seperate without having one to look at that was put together. That way I dont have 'extra parts' :)

[Vic777]

Originally posted by bburgi
I'm just getting into the market for my first AR.Build your own! Definetely if you have the inclination. This is the shortest route to becomming an expert. Buy books or get all the info off the web. Buy all the tools from Brownells. It will probably cost you more, actually, but it would be infinitely more rewarding.

[RMTactical]

Originally posted by glockdeacon
GoreLicks,

for quality of internals who do you think makes the better lower?

Does there seem to be a diference in fit between uppers/lowers of the same manufacturer and those that are of diferent manufacturers?

*Most* parts will go fine with other manufacturers I've found. As long as they are making parts that are not out of spec, you're fine.

Also, when you have two lowers from different companies, they still may have been manufactured in the same plant.

I've rarely had an issue with a lower and an upper than wouldn't go together with ease. This list isn't complete, I have the complete list somewhere, but this lists where certain companies are getting their lowers (among other things).

LMT = LMT, Lauer, DS Arms, PWA, Eagle, Knights Armament, Barrett

CMT = Stag, RRA, High Standard, Noveske, (new) Century, Global Tactical, CLE, S&W, MGI, Wilson Tactical, Grenadier Precision, Colt

LAR = LAR, Bushmaster, Ameetech, DPMS, CMMG, Double Star, Fulton

But I know I have mixed and matched most of these during builds w/o issues.

CMT makes a very good LPK. One of the best.

[Q-Ball]

FYI
I have a Rockmaster M4gery, RRA lower, Bushy M4 upper they fit together TIGHT, like so tight that it requires a fair whack at the base of the stock to break the halves loose after you pull the rear retaining pin. You might wish to avoid that combination if you don't want to hassel with it being so tight.
Q

[RMTactical]

Originally posted by Q-Ball
FYI
I have a Rockmaster M4gery, RRA lower, Bushy M4 upper they fit together TIGHT, like so tight that it requires a fair whack at the base of the stock to break the halves loose after you pull the rear retaining pin. You might wish to avoid that combination if you don't want to hassel with it being so tight.
Q

In my experience, super tight fitting receivers usually loosen up after you fire them a few hundred times and assemble/disassemble them a few times.

Also, different batches come out with slightly tighter/looser tolerances.

Both of my brothers have RRA lowers with LAR upper receivers and they fit very well.

[malkore]

a lower is EASY to put together. your first shot, it might take you a whole hour (assuming you don't launch a detent pin across the room).

build the lower. buy a completed upper. mate the two and go shooting.

then you can learn more about your upper by changing parts out on it later.

even doing it this way, you'll save $100.

[wrangler5]

Originally posted by malkore
a lower is EASY to put together. your first shot, it might take you a whole hour (assuming you don't launch a detent pin across the room).

build the lower. buy a completed upper. mate the two and go shooting.

then you can learn more about your upper by changing parts out on it later.

even doing it this way, you'll save $100.

This is what I did for my first AR, a couple of months ago. Bought a stripped RRA lower and an M&A parts package - everything but the stripped lower - at a gun show (different tables.) It took me longer to find the detailed assembly instructions online, print 'em out and read 'em than to actually assemble the stuff.

Buying the parts package allowed me to put in the 2-stage match trigger for about $65, since I didn't have to buy the standard trigger and throw it away. I also understand where all the little springs and pins go.

If you go this way, do consider seriously the little tool to insert the pivot pin detent - you can buy one (Midway - $5) or make one per the diagram in the military M-16 manuals. Some may get the detent installed with just fingers and a screwdriver, but I would have needed 3 hands to do it. I ended up making one out of a 1/4 inch dowel, but it was Sunday night and I was in a HURRY - a metal or plastic one would have been easier to use. The right tool makes that particular job very simple. This was the only step that needed a tool I didn't have around my workbench. (I do admit to already having a set of punches - anybody doing any work on a gun ought to have these anyway. If you don't have a set, this is an excuse to get some.)

Even if you could buy a complete lower for what you will put into the separate pieces, I'd recommend putting the lower together yourself. It is a wonderful introduction to what goes into, and what goes on inside, one of these terrific tools.

[Johnnyvegas]

Don't substitute your fingers for the pivot pin detent installation tool, that little spring will put the detent in orbit. I launched my sputnik five minutes before the local gun store closed, and luckily they build AR's, and had a spare detent. Other than the detent pin episode, my first build was pretty easy, you can find instructions all over the internet, take your time, and enjoy the finished product.

John

[glockdeacon]

What are good places to buy online for lowers, parts, good deals etc.

[C9X19]

Originally posted by malkore
a lower is EASY to put together. your first shot, it might take you a whole hour (assuming you don't launch a detent pin across the room).

build the lower. buy a completed upper. mate the two and go shooting.

then you can learn more about your upper by changing parts out on it later.

even doing it this way, you'll save $100.

Wow. You really took the words right outta my mouth!

[DriBak]

I have recently done a STAG upper/DPMS lower and RRA upper/DPMS lower

[John Bennett]

Originally posted by bburgi
since this will be my first forray into the AR world, I don't want to screw up the gun just trying to get it together.

I built my first AR using nothing more than the instructions located here:

http://www.ar15.com/content/guides/

At that time I had never even handled or fired an AR.

I purchased a stripped lower from Bushmaster.
I purchased a 16" carbine kit from J&T Distributing.

Everything went together just fine.

Don't worry. You can do it.

Right now I'm trying to work up a Dissipator configuration with a pencil barrel on a Stag lower. I think that may be impossible without spending more bucks than I should for the minimal weight savings.