what "0.9 inches thick" really means

[jlh2600]

Hi, very little experience with Kahrs. Have only shot a pm40 (did well with it), and have only fondled/dry fired a pm9.

For pocket carry, I am buying either a PM9 or a G26.

I understand the Kahr is more pocketable, especially in the critical stats (ie thickness and weight), but I am confused not so much on the .9", but how these measurements are determined in general.

For instance, in Concealed Carry Handguns magazine, they compare the widths of the pm9 and g26 slides:

"For example, the slide width is .90 of an inch; in comparison, the subcompact GLOCK 26 slide is 1.25 inches thick."

Since glock lists their thickness at 1.18" (yet I can't find a dimension on the slide that measures even an INCH thick), and the author used 1.25, he must have measured in the same way to get an apples-to-apples comparison to the .9" from Kahr- now my question is which way is that? I am guessing 1.18 comes somewhere from the grip, since the slide is less than that. Kahr's is the slide, so I am guessing the grip is even thinner than that?

Any insight in this regard is appreciated.


BTW any of you PM packers ever weigh it loaded (flush mag)


THANKS!


link to CCH magazine article: http://www.kahr.com/front.html

[jlh2600]

Ok heres a good comparison. g26 and p9(same width as pm i think)

http://www.a-human-right.com/p9g26depth.jpg

[jlh2600]

that one didn't look so bad, but looking at the mags side by side lol



http://www.a-human-right.com/g26p9magfront.jpg

[Seabee]

There is a HUGE difference between my MK9 Elite and my G23. I dont have them together right now so I cant give you accurate measurements, but the feel it totally different.

[tabor-pm-9]

I pocket carry a PM9 and I can tell you that I would never ever consider carrying anything heavier. YMMV.

[sharpshooter]

Gun magazine writers make stuff up all the time, and stretch the truth the rest of the time. Or hide it. This is just an example.

[jlh2600]

Authors do pull some stuff out they ass, but it's obviously a huge difference in the two; moreso in the pocket. Wish it could be a 26, but all logic points to Kahr.


BTW any of you Kahr guys seen a chart similar to this:
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Glock26Velocities.htm

for the pm9? I know .46" isn't making that much difference, but I'm more concerned on overall performance of different ammo, as we don't know whether it will "like" 127gr, whatever the velocity (which is 1246fps in the pocketable, yet not nearly as comfortable glock). Will ask this question to ballistics forum guys too.


Thanks much.

[Scooter70]

Originally posted by jlh2600

BTW any of you Kahr guys seen a chart similar to this:
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Glock26Velocities.htm

for the pm9?

Here you go. :thumbsup: http://www.kahr.com/review_cch2006.html Scroll to the bottom of the page.

Edit: Now I noticed that that's for the P9. I'll look around some more as I thought I saw one for the PM9.

[alank2]

Hi,

I guess this makes me picking on Kahr two days in a row, please forgive me Kahr fans. Kahr does not measure their pistols the way everyone else does, they intentionally measure them in such a way to make them look better than the competition. While most every other manufacturer measures width at the widest point (makes sense), Kahr measures theirs at the slide width. I have also read that their length and height measurements don't include stuff like the backstrap as well. It would be great if someone would post actual full measurements. I think somewhere around here is a pocket auto comparison that shows more accurate measurements.

Thanks,

alan

[Scooter70]

Alan - I'd be happy to take any measurements that you wish once my PM9 arrives (hopefully next week). That said, I don't think you can argue that the pictures that jh2600 posted above clearly shows that the P9 is definitely smaller than the G26. Kahr does claim that both the P9 and PM9 are 0.90" wide.

jh2600 - Here's a chart for the PM9 shooting various JHPs. http://www.kahr.com/review_police0905.html

[alank2]

Hi,

No doubt the MK9/PM9 are smaller than the G26, I agree on that. All I am saying is that the specs Kahr provides are not done the way that many other manufacturers use. Instead of pistol length, they give you slide length without including the backstrap. Instead of overwall width (which would include the slide lock), they give slide width. Glock could say that their G17/G19/G26 are 1" wide because the slide is 1" wide, but that wouldn't be the whole truth.

Thanks,

Alan

[ChTony]

If Kahr could shrink that hulking slide stop, they could really sell a pistol that was thin. I can feel that thing right thru most holsters.

OTOH, Glock makes a pretty slim slide stop (standard).

[jlh2600]

In putting each in the same holster and in pocket, really the biggest difference is not only the grip (obviously), but the huge square trigger guard was obtrusive somehow- where the kahrs is smooth and upswept.

Going balls-out w/the kahr I've decided. I just hope you guys don't find a "help me with my pm9" thread in a few weeks lol.

btw thanks much for the chrono data! doesnt look like there was any commmon loads there, but the velocities look good on what they shot w/.the kahr. thanks.

[tabor-pm-9]

Originally posted by jlh2600
BTW any of you PM packers ever weigh it loaded (flush mag)

It took me a while to answer this because my powder scale was burried. It is a very sensitive digital scale (+/1 0.01 grains). One round of Federal HST 147gr weighs 0.4830oz. Seven rounds weighs 3.381oz. Lets call that 3.4oz. Kahr tells us that the PM9 weighs 14oz, which is funny because that seems to be missing a sugnifigant figure. They also tell us that the magazine weighs 1.9oz, although they do not specify if that is the flush magazine or the extended magazine.

Anyway: 14 + 1.9 + 3.4 = 19.3oz.

Just for fun I calculated the MK9 which is 22.0 + 1.9 + 3.4 = 27.3oz and the K9 23.1 + 1.9 + 3.9 = 28.9oz.

You can do this for any pistol if you can add and multiply. My Walther P99 is 24.7 + 7.7 = 32.4oz.

[Colorado Fatboy]

As somebody who owns both a PM9 and a G27 I can tell you that the G27 is not EVER carried in MY pockets. It is alot bigger and heavier than the PM9. Just go to a gun shop and compare them side by side. Throw them in your pocket, you will see what I mean.

IMHO the G27 is a IWB gun and the PM9 is more of a pocket gun.

FWIW my PM9 has over 3000 rounds through it without any problems. No signs of peening yet. It goes with me whenever I can't carry something bigger IWB.

[jlh2600]

Originally posted by Colorado Fatboy
As somebody who owns both a PM9 and a G27 I can tell you that the G27 is not EVER carried in MY pockets. It is alot bigger and heavier than the PM9. Just go to a gun shop and compare them side by side. Throw them in your pocket, you will see what I mean.

Yeah you're right cfb. I did just that (see two posts above yours) for about an hour in a shop. It's what convinced me to gamble a bit. Because while the kahr may or may not work, that could change. However the glock will always be shaped and weighted as it is.

Thanks tabor. Good to know we're talking sub 20oz with the heaviest bullets. Won an auction last night, can't wait til it gets here!