Dave Sevigny wins IDPA Nationals again.....

[AggieMM]

Way to go Dave!!!!!!!

2006 IDPA Nationals - Results (http://www.idpa.com/matchresults/2006_nationals/total2006.pdf)

Here's a video of Dave (provided by Julie G):

Dave - El Prez (http://www.juliegoloski.com/videos/06_IDPA_DS.wmv)

Others videos can be found at:

More videos by Julie G (http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39701)

Ryan

[skorpio]

Looking at the results, I see Bill Wilson, but no Ken Hackathorn...:upeyes:

[pstmstr]

Don't want to jack the thead but does anyone know where Sevigny got that vest?

[Ricky T]

Originally posted by pstmstr
Don't want to jack the thead but does anyone know where Sevigny got that vest?

In the past Mr. Sevigny had worn vests sold by Ready Tactical, I think they were made in Birmingham, AL.

[J.P.]

ready tactical sells the Competitor III vest but that doesn't look like what Dave is wearing in the video due to the pocket flaps.

[Falling Crow]

I'm glad they got to shoot it in bone dry conditions on Thursday instead of rain and 2-3 inches of mud on Firday and Saturday like I did....In her defense though-Julie Goloski was out there shooting with us in the rain Saturday morning. The pictures you see of her don't do her justice!!!

[Jim Watson]

Yeah, but she doesn't shoot Glocks any more.

Massad Ayoob was on the squad ahead of me with a Ruger GP100.

[rhino465]

Looks like Bob Vogel did very well too ... he was the only one in the match even close to Young Master Sevigny. Not bad for a cop! :supergrin:

[Mas Ayoob]

Keep your eye on Rob Vogel. I think you'll be hearing a lot about him in the future. He came in second last year as I recall, and absolutely smoked the Midwest Regionals in both 05 and 06. I believe he was shooting a Glock this year instead of his 1911 .40.

[J.P.]

Looks like our Tulsa locals did well too.
I'm kicking myself for missing it because I would have topped ESP/MM.
I got bumped Saturday though so that ship has sailed. ;)

Here are results for our locals:

Greg Myers 5th CDP/SS
Darrell West 6th CDP/MM

Jerry Biggs 1st ESP/EX bumped to ESP/MA
Eric Jones 3rd ESP/SS and High Military
Tammy Sharp 2nd ESP/MM bumped to ESP/SS and 2nd High Lady
Kevin Myers 4th ESP/MM

Eric Fuson 4th SSP/MA 3rd in Back Up Gun Event
Travis Foster 2nd SSP/SS bumped to SSP/EX
Wade Bullard 8th SSP/MM

Curt Nichols SSR Champion

And lets not forget the ones who also placed but was not allowed to bring home wood
Geoge Durgee 3rd SSR/MM
Jerry Bullard 17th SSP/EX

I shoot with these guys/gal at least twice a month.
You won't find nicer folks. :)

[Tree Rat]

The Taran Butler video.......was that a cover bust on the third target going to the overturned car?

Those USPSA guys crack me up.


TR

[Glock2234]

The Taran Butler video.......was that a cover bust on the third target going to the overturned car?

That was the first thing I thought of. The stage looked a lot like stage 6 from the Carolina Cup. It was a procedural there, but I didn't see a finger go up.

[Wulfenite]

What kind of tuneing does dave do to get his mags to drop like that. Having to pluck them kills me on my reload speed.

[ExNavyInHouston]

To heck with Dave S., it was my first Nationals and I also won. Hehehe! I am still excited.

ESP Marksman - no more! :wavey:

Squid

[eljay45]

Originally posted by Mas Ayoob
Keep your eye on Rob Vogel.


I've been sqauded with him a few times. The guy is a lot of fun to watch. He smoked everyone at the Midwest Fall regional again this year, shooting a Glock. He was 28 seconds faster than anyone else.

[Invictus]

Originally posted by Tree Rat
The Taran Butler video.......was that a cover bust on the third target going to the overturned car?

TR
YES! regardless of camera angle! I wonder if a less "famous" master, or sharpshooter would have recieved a PE!??

[Ricky T]

Originally posted by Tree Rat
The Taran Butler video.......was that a cover bust on the third target going to the overturned car?

Those USPSA guys crack me up.


TR

I don't regularly shoot USPSA, so I'm not defending anybody. I choose IDPA as my primary shooting activity. I also wasn't at the national so I don't have the COF description. But as a certified SO and casually watching the video I don't think engaging the third target would require the use of cover since the shooter engages the target while going to cover. The same apply to targets 1 and 2.

After what happened with Taran Butler at last year's match, I don't think the SOs were giving him any special privilege either.

[VincentZ]

If you've shot at IDPA Nationals with the top shooters you would know that they don't get extra breaks. Often it is quite the opposite.

[byerly]

In reference to the stage that Taran is shooting on the video: "Engage T1-T3 while moving to cover". I was on his squad and since I watched him get 2 procedurals, I don't think he was getting special treatment. BTW, he is a class guy all the way. Good match, glad I went.

[Invictus]

It's not about target three, good use of cover at the turned over car, would put the shooter's RIGHT knee down, and not have it in the open where you could be shot! Much like having your feet behind cover! I could be wrong, but that's how I saw it!

[Wulfenite]

Originally posted by Invictus
It's not about target three, good use of cover at the turned over car, would put the shooter's RIGHT knee down, and not have it in the open where you could be shot! Much like having your feet behind cover! I could be wrong, but that's how I saw it!

You could think of it that way, or you could say that going right knee down, shooting around a left corner would make it much harder for the shooter to edge incrementally around the cover to achieve maximum cover of his torso. Also, going right knee down would mean you'd be twisting your torso more , have less recoil control, and possibly force shooting out of the non dominant eye. Of course it all changes again if you're a lefty, or cross dominant. In real life if you were actually pieing a corner on your knees, you'd probably want the position that would allow you to get back up and away from the exposed corner fastest since you really wouldent know what was behind there, not necessarily the one that minimized exposure. Of course in real life you'd never actually spend a moments time consider which knee you would go down on. Which all just really points out that when IDPA tries to micromanage the tacticality of each element in a stage they're as often as not taking one step back for each forward one. If he used the cover effectivelly (not necessarily ideally) it should be good enough. Anything more than that and you start to sound like an IPSC gamer.

[Invictus]

I don't mean to start a cover war here. And Taran is a great shooter regardless of what game he shoots!BUT cover is about NOT getting shot, more than it is about shooting, it really is that simple, that's why there is a PE attached when it's not done properly!

[Tree Rat]

Originally posted by Ricky T
But as a certified SO and casually watching the video I don't think engaging the third target would require the use of cover since the shooter engages the target while going to cover. The same apply to targets 1 and 2.

After what happened with Taran Butler at last year's match, I don't think the SOs were giving him any special privilege either.

I believe the course of fire allowed for engaging T1 & T2 out in the open....as he did.

Enagaging T3 from cover would require a line more directly to the corner of the car thus never exposing yourself to T3....which as you can observe from the video he definately did not.

Not doubting he is a great guy or wanting to disparage the man...but it is what it is.

What happend in 2005?



TR

[Glock2234]

Originally posted by Tree Rat

What happend in 2005?
TR

Oooooooooooo, I wish you hadn't asked.

[rhino465]

Originally posted by Mas Ayoob
Keep your eye on Rob Vogel. I think you'll be hearing a lot about him in the future. He came in second last year as I recall, and absolutely smoked the Midwest Regionals in both 05 and 06. I believe he was shooting a Glock this year instead of his 1911 .40.

He's also a GM in USPSA and has done very well at the state and area matches where I've also been shooting or looked at results with his name at or near the top. We had the pleasure of having him kick our collective butts at the USPSA Indiana Section Match in 2004 or 2005 (he won Limited Division). He's young, but I understand he's been shooting quite a while.

Anyone who can come that close to Young Master Sevigny, regardless of what they are shooting, is a first rate shooter and competitor.

[bruce282]

Originally posted by Tree Rat
I believe the course of fire allowed for engaging T1 & T2 out in the open....as he did.

Engaging T3 from cover would require a line more directly to the corner of the car thus never exposing yourself to T3....which as you can observe from the video he definitely did not.

Not doubting he is a great guy or wanting to disparage the man...but it is what it is.

What happened in 2005?



TR

I believe the COF description stated "Engage T1-T3 while moving to cover". which Taran did. And the cover rule says that 100% of your lower body must be behind cover and given the camera angle I don't think that anyone who wasn't there can really say if cover was being used properly or not, we can't see how far out Taran is, nor can we see the roof of the car looks like. I don't think which knee is down makes any difference at all. Just my .02.


Bruce

[77jazz]

Jazz,

File your course/match compaints with the MD.

[Glock2234]

To say that someone should get an FTDR for round dumping is taken a subjective call that might be a PE and a elevating it to a ridiculous level.

If someone dumps a round, do they gain more than 3 seconds advantage? If not, an FTDR is just sour grapes.

If round dumping should receive a PE at all is a whole other question.

I have seen half a squad dump a round on the same target for a competitive advantage. They just had the good sense to either pick a distant target, or intentionally miss with one of the shots.

Regarding TGO, I heard a week before the match that he wasn't going at least in part due to the inconsistency of the calls, particularly with regard to the higher level shooters. That is, the really well known shooters are being called tighter by some SOs than the rest of the shooters. Some SOs like to teach those guys a lesson.

Shooting at that level is your living, and they should at least be able to expect a level field. Don't get mad at them because they can do things you can't.

Round dumping is a judgement call. Unless you know what the shooter was thinking or reacting to, you have no basis for the call. The rule book still says the benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter.

As the kids say- "Don't hate the player, hate the game."

[Jim Watson]

Round dumping for a penalty is totally bogus contradictory B.S.
Read the definition of a Vickers Count stage "as many shots as desired may be fired" and then tell me the SO has the power to conclude my desire to fire an extra shot was impure. The rulebook provisions are directly contradictory, you cannot have it both ways. Since I cannot read the shooter's mind, I will never call dumping.

[Invictus]

Originally posted by Jim Watson
Round dumping for a penalty is totally bogus contradictory B.S.
Read the definition of a Vickers Count stage "as many shots as desired may be fired" and then tell me the SO has the power to conclude my desire to fire an extra shot was impure. The rulebook provisions are directly contradictory, you cannot have it both ways. Since I cannot read the shooter's mind, I will never call dumping.
Exactly! It's a gun fight shoot all you want! Unless it's says other wise!

[77jazz]

If you have a personal issue with Mr. Sevigny, take it up with him directly. I do not allow this personal slamming in my forums.

[Glock2234]

He was warned, and did the same thing again, and still no penalty.

So, did he beat you by more than 20 seconds?

If you are shooting SSP/MA, you have a complaint. Otherwise, you're just talking. Did you tell him how you felt about it and discuss it with him? I've found him very pleasant to talk to while waiting to shoot. Bad mouthing him on the internet does no one any good. You weren't the shooter and you weren't the SO.

[Invictus]

Jazz,
I'm not dicounting what you saw or heard. But there is a contrdiction to what the rules say! The SO can't make up rules during the game, it's either limited vickers or shoot till your happy!

[Tree Rat]

Originally posted by bruce282
I believe the COF description stated "Engage T1-T3 while moving to cover". which Taran did. And the cover rule says that 100% of your lower body must be behind cover and given the camera angle I don't think that anyone who wasn't there can really say if cover was being used properly or not, we can't see how far out Taran is, nor can we see the roof of the car looks like. I don't think which knee is down makes any difference at all. Just my .02.


Bruce

I saw him move on a direct line to T1-T2 and engage them at less than a yard, turn and engage T3 out in the open, then go to cover.

Engaging T1-T3 while going to cover would involve a direct line to the corner of the car (angling slightly away from T1-T2 as you engage them in the open), then T3 at cover.

I think the point that some get breaks while others don't has been made elsewhere in this thread.

I'll leave it at this for my part.....



TR

[smoney]

Regarding that stage

EVERYONE was REQUIRED to shoot T3 WHILE moving. if you stopped you got a procedural. Also regarding the terrain there. Lots of shooters myself included fell because of the way the terrain was. Questioning which knee.. come on it's a game as long as 50% of the guy is behind cover give it a rest... in real life we don't wait to see the WHOLE target we shoot what we see first. small pieces then the big ones.

Tree Rat no break was given there. Tom Yost was given a procedural questioned it with the Match Director and was then given an FTDR.

To the person who was mouthing about sevigny please PM/Email me.

I was second to Bob at the Midwest Fall regional.. in my defense 9 of that 20 seconds was a malfunction on my part.... the rest was ALLL him . I spent about a week with him, training at his home/range. I will honestly say he is what he is because he trains harder than the rest of us. It was truely an inspiration to train harder seeing how much he does, and his competitve fire inside.

[Flexmoney]

Looks like Dave S. and Vogel put on a clinic. :thumbsup:

[bruce282]

Originally posted by smoney
SNIP

Tom Yost was given a procedural questioned it with the Match Director and was then given an FTDR.

SNIP Some More



Please tell me there was more than just questioning a call that got Mr Yost's PE promoted to a FTDR. Not trying to start something here, I shoot IDPA and enjoy it, but unless Tom went ballistic why would a penalty get bumped up in severity?

Bruce

ETA Not flaming stuff.

[Andrew Colglazier]

Originally posted by Wulfenite
What kind of tuneing does dave do to get his mags to drop like that. Having to pluck them kills me on my reload speed.

Wulfenite, they should drop free no problem without any tweaking. What size pistol do you shoot?

Andy C.

[ExNavyInHouston]

The Deep Dark Secret for better magazine drops is:

http://a1061.g.akamai.net/7/1061/5412/home/www.walgreens.com/dbimagecache/306943.jpg

It is like an Armor All but way less "slickery" and dries just right. Wipe your mags with a light coat and even the mag chamber on the gun. Give plenty of time to dry and look out. Those mags should fly out of there like they were shot out of a canon.

Sorry guys if I just gave up a competition advantange.

Better take my advice, afterall I am a National Champion ... ok ok it was just as a Marksman, but let me have some fun with hit. :tongueout:

I know it is not a perfect sport and I would imagine there are even some egos involved at the top that get in the way accepting good input. So my unsolicited advice is protest in writing to the right people away from the match.

Meanwhile, do your best inside the "flawed" rules and enjoy yourself until the next rule change.

Navy

[smoney]

I'm not going to elaborate further as I was not there in person.

On a positive note IDPA nationals will be in Allentown,PA next year, New Venue and New MD. The gentleman Ted Murphy who runs the PA state match the last 2 years seems to be very fair, and unbiased towards everyone. I only hope things will improve with IDPA it is a great sport.

[Wulfenite]

Originally posted by Andrew Colglazier
Wulfenite, they should drop free no problem without any tweaking. What size pistol do you shoot?

Andy C.

10mm and 45.

[Tree Rat]

Thanks for the feedback Steve. I cannot imagine what a nice dude like Tom Yost could have done to get a FTDR right.....sounds like the stage was problematic all around.

Nat's in Allentown with Ted as MD! That's the best IDPA news I've heard in years!

Lot's of good east coast matches next year leading into that.

Stay tuned for the return of the Maryland State Championship in May 2007.....12 stages.



TR

[Mas Ayoob]

Tree Rat, have you set the exact May dates in MD yet?

[Tree Rat]

Yes sir......05 and 06 May.

Sanction request going out in October with applications to open in January.



TR

[Glock2234]

Lexington Park?

[Glock2234]

Lexington Park?

[Tree Rat]

Correct.


TR

[Glock2234]

I was very disappointed that the '06 MD match did not go. I thought that the '05 first effort was outstanding. It was the most prepared, smoothest running major match, I have ever been to. Because of the assigned times, it didn't seem like a major. You never encountered the crowds that make most of the majors too much about waiting and not enough about shooting. Having a paramedic on site for the entire match and a landing zone for the shock/trauma helicopter, raised level of preparedness to a whole different level. It would be very bad if you needed it, but worse if you didn't have it. The number of guns given away to the number of competitors, really raised the bar. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't perfect. But it was pretty damn good.

I'm looking forward to spending another weekend on Solomon's Island.

[77jazz]

Yes I was shooting SSP Master, and yes he beat me by WAY more than 20 seconds. I had no grand illusions of being close in the chase. It was just infuriating to see one person get away with something no one else could. I will not argue your take on the rules as I did not come up with them. I as a competitor just have to follow them. You can take it up with Bill Wilson. I have voiced my my arguments to him several times in the past. I did not start this post out of the blue. Someone mentioned that the big guys seem to get a break and he got jumped on, so I just posted WHAT I SAW.I will not elaborate on this topic any further as my posts are being deleted. The moderator acts as though I am a Glock or a DS hater, of which I am neither. I own 5 Glocks and a few J frames, thats it. I switched to Glocks in part because of him, and I have talked with him in the past and he is a nice guy. I know that this is Glocktalk, but I apparently you cant speak of what you actually saw with your own eyes if it sheds a negative light on the Glock God. I will not reply on this subject anymore. He is a great guy, He can do no wrong, he can probably spin straw into gold........everyone happy.

77jazz

[smoney]

I'm not happy.

I'd like to know exactly what happened... we were on the squad behind dave Bob was on my squad. and i don't remember any incident like that.

[DannyR]

It's an incident that only Jazz seems to have witnessed. He did not file a legitimate protest with the RO or MD at the time, but now he wishes to complain to all. It sounds like poor sportsmanship to me. The issue is mute, over, done.